Promoting P2P transactions through Bitcoin Community

[Fiatless]

Bitcoin was designed for P2P transactions or P2P payments. The initial plan of the creator was to transfer funds without middlemen such as exchanges. Currently, there have been arguments by some users that exchanges have become an essential part of Bitcoin transactions because of their high liquidity. Some business owners have complained that they need to use exchanges because fiat is needed for them to restock their stores. So exchanges provide a fast means of changing their coins to fiat.

For Bitcoiners to avoid these exchanges and use Bitcoin as designed, building a strong Bitcoin community will be a good option. This community should include trustworthy members that can engage in P2P transactions at will. These communities should be open to members that are trustworthy and committed to promoting the privacy and decentralization of Bitcoin.

From my observation, three issues might arise, which are trust, liquidity, and privacy. Let me give my little view of how these challenges can be handled.

Trust: Trust between the two parties involved in this P2P transaction might be an issue. I know trustworthy people are scarce but this doesn't dispute the fact that there are people that can be trusted. Using trusted individuals as escrow might be a good option. These trusted members can serve as the link between members if there is any form of distrust among members. But members that trust each other don't need escrow.

Liquidity: As the members of the community keep growing its liquidity level will keep increasing. This suggestion might be complicated but it might not be a bad idea if the community has a fiat capital or fund that members can access if there is nobody wants to buy bitcoin at the particular time. Trustworthy Administrators or escrows can simply exchange members' Bitcoin with fiat from the community funds and their Bitcoin transferred to the community escrow wallet. But the amount is these funds shouldn't be too high because it can breed greed.

Privacy: Members do not need to know each other physically to run this community. Members in large communities like Bitcointalk can decide to form smaller communities. The reason is that it will be easy to identify trustworthy members if you are aware of their reputation. There are some members in this forum that I will be willing to join the community where they serve as sectors or administrators because they are trustworthy.

These are my thoughts, I might also be wrong.

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[BIT-BENDER]

This community should include trustworthy members that can engage in P2P transactions at will. These communities should be open to members that are trustworthy and committed to promoting the privacy and decentralization of Bitcoin.

How can you determine an individual who is trust worthy, the crypto-currency world is majorly anonymous meaning there are high chances the true identity of people are unknown or not as they say it is, so how do you say someone is trustworthy, and even though a person has proven they are trust worth (on the platform you intend checking them through) they can still be hacked and a scammer takes control then what?

I believe why people uses exchange especially reputable exchange is because they have already built their establishment and firstly they won't want to risk their business name going to the mud by being dubious or risk the law falling on them.

You have the choice of choosing centralized or decentralized exchange, although I recommend the latter because you are more in control on the latter than the former.

[Jawhead999]

In short you're talking about these two sections Currency exchange and Marketplace (Altcoins)

If you have such idea to avoid centralized exchange by trading with user in this forum, the biggest question is why until now you haven't exchange with the forum users? there's no post created by you in that two sections and your account don't have any trading history.

[noorman0]

-snip-
For Bitcoiners to avoid these exchanges and use Bitcoin as designed,

Maintaining this kind of principle has been difficult for a while, some bitcoin users have for years (centralizedly) not even fully understanding what miner fees, confirmation counts, mempools, etc. are. They are not joining the train for reasons of the bitcoin concept, just joining the trend.

In the end, you must serve flexibly as a last resort or you will lose your opportunity, but that does not mean ignoring security measures.

[dzungmobile]

On centralized peer to peer exchanges, if KYC is not enough to prevent scammers, how do you think this forum will succeed to filter users and prevent scammers to have trade with others?

It is impossible to do this even you are trading with a trusted user. People can change over time and from a good trade partner to a scam trade partner. Sometimes they don't change from good to scam trade partners but their accounts hacked and hackers make trades and scam other trade partners.

Many reasons you can not perfectly avoid scam with a platform infrastructure. A person must be expertise in each trade type to reduce risk of being scammed.

[Lida93]

This community should include trustworthy members that can engage in P2P transactions at will. These communities should be open to members that are trustworthy and committed to promoting the privacy and decentralization of Bitcoin.

How can you determine an individual who is trust worthy, the crypto-currency world is majorly anonymous meaning there are high chances the true identity of people are unknown or not as they say it is, so how do you say someone is trustworthy, and even though a person has proven they are trust worth (on the platform you intend checking them through) they can still be hacked and a scammer takes control then what?

I believe why people uses exchange especially reputable exchange is because they have already built their establishment and firstly they won't want to risk their business name going to the mud by being dubious or risk the law falling on them.

You have the choice of choosing centralized or decentralized exchange, although I recommend the latter because you are more in control on the latter than the former.

As you rightly said we can't one hundred percent surety of someone that he is trust worthy under an anonymous system. No matter the repute we may assume someone here has its still a risk we're taking putting them as escrow to a p2p transaction, the less risk or non at all exist with exchanges because whatever amount you might be transacting at the moment is not worth their establishment  and they wouldn't be so stupid enough to risk their license by running away with your meager fund compared to their reserve.

Everyone has a price, and some people are said to be trustworthy because maybe their price have not been reached, and that puts them in a better position to be trusted than others that anything goes.

[Cuenta Alternativa]

In short you're talking about these two sections Currency exchange and Marketplace (Altcoins)

If you have such idea to avoid centralized exchange by trading with user in this forum, the biggest question is why until now you haven't exchange with the forum users? there's no post created by you in that two sections and your account don't have any trading history.

Well, I believe the OP wanted to create an informative post about it, and what he says is true, but of the three points he cites, Trust, Liquidity and Privacy, I think Liquidity is the most important one. I sometimes visit these sections and if you want to exchange x amount of bitcoin, it is rare that there is an offer that matches that exact amount. Most times you have to post an offer and see if someone will match it and exchange it for you. I actually used it once to exchange bitcoin for USDT, and that's what happened to me, I had a hard time finding someone to exchange it for me.

But now let's move on to other reason the OP hasn't talked about, which is to exchange bitcoin for fiat above certain amounts. If you want to exchange $10,000 or more for bitcoin or vice versa, whether you use a DEX or the forum, you are not going to have privacy anyway.

If you have to send, for example, $25,000 from the UK to Singapore or vice versa, your bank will ask you questions and block the operation until you can justify what you are doing. And the justification will not only be kept by your bank, it will be passed on to your country's tax authorities. Alarm bells are also ringing within the country itself. In Spain, for example, any transfer, even a domestic transfer, over €3,000 is automatically reported to the tax authorities.

Using a DEX or the forum to exchange $400 from time to time if you are willing to wait for someone to match the offer while in a CEX you have it instantly is fine, but from certain amounts it is not practical.

[hugeblack]

Trust: Trust between the two parties involved in this P2P transaction might be an issue. I know trustworthy people are scarce but this doesn't dispute the fact that there are people that can be trusted. Using trusted individuals as escrow might be a good option. These trusted members can serve as the link between members if there is any form of distrust among members. But members that trust each other don't need escrow.

Trust depends on how you use bitcoins, do you want to buy or spend them, bitcoin spending does not require a lot of trust, you need to spend it for cash or to buy products, you will need more than one confirmation if you want to buy a product or use the lightning network.
But the purchase requires confidence, as it may use a reversible payment method, and here it requires the use of CEXs or DEXs.

Liquidity: As the members of the community keep growing its liquidity level will keep increasing. This suggestion might be complicated but it might not be a bad idea if the community has a fiat capital or fund that members can access if there is nobody wants to buy bitcoin at the particular time.

I think we have reached a stage where the price of Bitcoin has become greater than one CEX, and therefore liquidity is not important in creating value, but it may make the value of Bitcoin much lower if all CEXs disappear.

[Hyphen(-)]

Trust: Trust between the two parties involved in this P2P transaction might be an issue. I know trustworthy people are scarce but this doesn't dispute the fact that there are people that can be trusted. Using trusted individuals as escrow might be a good option. These trusted members can serve as the link between members if there is any form of distrust among members. But members that trust each other don't need escrow.

Do you think that all members who have earned trust and a good reputation will have time for this?

This is a whole different dimension that will necessitate a very trustworthy person(s) in control of the transaction, whereas some people will waste time sending due to network congestion and the use of a cheap transaction cost. Without a reputable individual acting as escrow, it will appear to be a haven for scammers.

In short you're talking about these two sections Currency exchange and Marketplace (Altcoins)

If you have such idea to avoid centralized exchange by trading with user in this forum, the biggest question is why until now you haven't exchange with the forum users? there's no post created by you in that two sections and your account don't have any trading history.

Exactly!

The forum has already provided sections for this, the OP can visit the boards and see how it is been done there and possibly give more suggestion.

[_act_]

On centralized peer to peer exchanges, if KYC is not enough to prevent scammers, how do you think this forum will succeed to filter users and prevent scammers to have trade with others?

KYC is foolishness, it can not prevent scammers. What is preventing scammers is because those exchanges are centralized and they are escrow in that sense. If there is not KYC but bank statement can be requested for during dispute, the centralized exchanges will know who wants to scam. Have you used decentralized exchange before? That is how it is too there, but using multisig.

It is impossible to do this even you are trading with a trusted user. People can change over time and from a good trade partner to a scam trade partner. Sometimes they don't change from good to scam trade partners but their accounts hacked and hackers make trades and scam other trade partners.

P2P is good but people just do not like the multisig wallet that should be used with it. If people how to create multisig wallet, it can be used in 2 of 2 with a trusted member.

[ranochigo]

They are essentially OTC transactions, and they are fundamentally different from using an exchange and they serve a very different purpose. Other than the obvious lack of legitimacy, you have the difficulty of getting decent rates when you're doing such trades, where it is impossible for anyone to gain perfect information and execute trades efficiently. There is a good reason why most people would rather use an exchange for the best rates. If you were to give me an option between the two, I would choose the exchange any day and those challenges that you've listed isn't the main reason.

Bitcoin is designed for small day-to-day transactions, and it has nothing to do with the user's desire to exchange their currency for another. Exchange will likely be the main way for people to exchange their crypto to fiat, and they do a lot of the heavy lifting specifically with regards to the government regulations for you.

[avp2306]

In short you're talking about these two sections Currency exchange and Marketplace (Altcoins)

If you have such idea to avoid centralized exchange by trading with user in this forum, the biggest question is why until now you haven't exchange with the forum users? there's no post created by you in that two sections and your account don't have any trading history.

Maybe trust issues  but undeniable that its hard to deal with p2p even if there's an escrow involve since we still have a chance to get scam. This type of activity has been lessen due to that incident so I can't blame other people why they don't do p2p to people they just meet online and just transact if they really know the user us really trusted or have good reputation.

For now its hard to convince skeptical forum user to try it but maybe if many people gain confidence to try this on section you posted here then its good to see thus kind of activities rolling.

[Dunamisx]

Some business owners have complained that they need to use exchanges because fiat is needed for them to restock their stores. So exchanges provide a fast means of changing their coins to fiat.

It's not about the exchange but P2P network which is exactly the choice of what people want, if we are to work by exchanges alone without the use of p2p, they will be more worse than using bank, the reason why you could discover alot of users on these centralized exchanges is because but create for them an avenue to quickly exchange their fiat to bitcoin or bitcoin to fiat with the use of same p2p network.

For Bitcoiners to avoid these exchanges and use Bitcoin as designed, building a strong Bitcoin community will be a good option. This community should include trustworthy members that can engage in P2P transactions at will.

There are members already into this, you can get their likes on the service board, but the little challenge in using some may be the trust you're talking about, can they offer an accurate precise rate an exchange offers, how reliable are they because the forum does not have the mandate to do that, we take risk in dealing with whosoever we gave an ordeal with here on the forum except they are reliable and trustworthy.

[Coin_trader]

Trust: Trust between the two parties involved in this P2P transaction might be an issue. I know trustworthy people are scarce but this doesn't dispute the fact that there are people that can be trusted. Using trusted individuals as escrow might be a good option. These trusted members can serve as the link between members if there is any form of distrust among members. But members that trust each other don't need escrow.

This proven not working when the amount involved is very high. Trust on Bitcoin is just a dream concept since everyone here is anonymous. You can use as example the forum marketplace because even with good trust system to counter scammer, there's still a lot of people that become greedy to scam people that trust them already.

Yogg is one the best example on how common trust system will not work. He is prominent member here that has many successful transactions in the part yet he still scam many people here due to his own personal problem because it's very easy to scam someone on trust basis since no one knows your identity. He can create new account and start again. Yogg is not only example because there's a lot of same instances even before that involves trusted member that turns into a big time scammer. We have no choice here than trust a centralized or decentralized middleman for every supposedly P2P transaction.

[cryptoaddictchie]

Im not sure if you can keep it up with that. Hardly only few people willing to deal with you here especially if you are gonna trade qith other people an altcoins or coins that you wanted to exchange. Why make it hard for yourself and simply do a p2p with guaranteed transaction on Binance P2P. Im pretty sure your currency are supported too on that since they are covering a lot of currency in their peer to peer marketplace. Plus you dont gonna be scared of ptoential issue like the trust you mentioned cause there is a system.

[Yamane_Keto]

We can say that P2P payments mean that you do not need a third party such as a bank to ensure that the money will reach the buyer, and here we will say that all bitcoin transactions are P2P payments, even if they are sent to exchange, as the transaction from your wallet to the platform is P2P payments, but what happens inside exchange is not yours to do so Not your keys not your coins rule.

After the first confirmation, trust is transferred from you to the second party and here you can enhance privacy using mixing services and full node management, with TOR, you can enhance trust by paying to a party you trust or use collateral, enhance liquidity by not burning your coins or giving them for free to scammers.

[ImThour]

Your insights on Bitcoin's unique imaginative and prescient for P2P transactions and the challenges it faces with exchanges are insightful. While Bitcoin changed into supposed to get rid of intermediaries, exchanges have come to be vital for liquidity. To go back to the original ethos, constructing a robust Bitcoin network is prime. Trustworthy escrows can bridge agree with issues, specifically as the network grows.