Haunebu and 3kpk3 - merit system abuse

[Pipshunter]

I would like to present evidence that the owner of the Haunebu and 3kpk3 accounts was cheating by trading Merits between his own accounts.

Community will judge you

Try harder!..

It seems that this user believes that he can cheat and will not face any consequences. So I decided to try harder and write this post.

Here is evidence of his cheating:

..It's pretty evident that Haunebu is my alt-account..

Accounts connected by decodx - Only link, because thread is locked: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2544574.msg56144066#msg56144066
Accounts connected by Piggy - Only link, because thread is locked: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2544574.msg41613620#msg41613620

Direct connection in trading merits between Haunebu and 3kpk3: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2896910.msg41673580#msg41673580



I didn't make deep research, just collected information from other users research.

One thing I can add is that until September 2017, the person behind Haunebu account wrote only in fluent German and was well educated technically, after that date only English spam began.

[1715426961]

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[1715426961]

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[Cantsay]

I just have a few questions to ask you.

The proof you included in your post are there recent? Or the same with the ones that were used back then? If “Yes”, why did you choose to open a thread against him now in the reputation board? Because I just went through both of your post history and I found out that you had an issue because he called the casino (1xbit.com) you were promoting a scam which it really is.

I can see that this was reported in 2021 and at this time merit abusers were already being punished by neg tags but why was this case left? There might be a reason to it probably due to the time the merit exchange happened or something similar.

[Pipshunter]

I just have a few questions to ask you.

The proof you included in your post are there recent? Or the same with the ones that were used back then? If “Yes”, why did you choose to open a thread against him now in the reputation board? Because I just went through both of your post history and I found out that you had an issue because he called the casino (1xbit.com) you were promoting a scam which it really is.

I can see that this was reported in 2021 and at this time merit abusers were already being punished by neg tags but why was this case left? There might be a reason to it probably due to the time the merit exchange happened or something similar.

The fact that I drew attention to these two accounts is because they both behave in the same arrogant and aggressive manner.
I started a casual discussion about 1xBit and only from these two accounts I had been getting insulted. It seemed strange to me, so I used the Bitcointalk search engine and in couple of seconds I found this information.

As I wrote earlier, this is information that has been found by other users. I don't know how these two accounts managed to avoid the consequences of this scam. I'm guessing this is just an oversight.

[yahoo62278]

I just have a few questions to ask you.

The proof you included in your post are there recent? Or the same with the ones that were used back then? If “Yes”, why did you choose to open a thread against him now in the reputation board? Because I just went through both of your post history and I found out that you had an issue because he called the casino (1xbit.com) you were promoting a scam which it really is.

I can see that this was reported in 2021 and at this time merit abusers were already being punished by neg tags but why was this case left? There might be a reason to it probably due to the time the merit exchange happened or something similar.

The fact that I drew attention to these two accounts is because they both behave in the same arrogant and aggressive manner.
I started a casual discussion about 1xBit and only from these two accounts I had been getting insulted. It seemed strange to me, so I used the Bitcointalk search engine and in couple of seconds I found this information.

As I wrote earlier, this is information that has been found by other users. I don't know how these two accounts managed to avoid the consequences of this scam. I'm guessing this is just an oversight.

Unless they're involved in selling merits, then i'm really not interested. It looks like they did send merits to each other(23 each) which some members may end up tagging them for. I can't see how long ago it was(more then 120 days for sure though).

I do think just because you got your feelings hurt for someone telling the truth about a scam company you wanted to represent doesn't mean you should go on a personal vendetta and try ruining them. Don't advertise for a scam company and you wouldn't have been tagged.

[Pipshunter]

I just have a few questions to ask you.

The proof you included in your post are there recent? Or the same with the ones that were used back then? If “Yes”, why did you choose to open a thread against him now in the reputation board? Because I just went through both of your post history and I found out that you had an issue because he called the casino (1xbit.com) you were promoting a scam which it really is.

I can see that this was reported in 2021 and at this time merit abusers were already being punished by neg tags but why was this case left? There might be a reason to it probably due to the time the merit exchange happened or something similar.

The fact that I drew attention to these two accounts is because they both behave in the same arrogant and aggressive manner.
I started a casual discussion about 1xBit and only from these two accounts I had been getting insulted. It seemed strange to me, so I used the Bitcointalk search engine and in couple of seconds I found this information.

As I wrote earlier, this is information that has been found by other users. I don't know how these two accounts managed to avoid the consequences of this scam. I'm guessing this is just an oversight.

Unless they're involved in selling merits, then i'm really not interested. It looks like they did send merits to each other(23 each) which some members may end up tagging them for. I can't see how long ago it was(more then 120 days for sure though).

I do think just because you got your feelings hurt for someone telling the truth about a scam company you wanted to represent doesn't mean you should go on a personal vendetta and try ruining them. Don't advertise for a scam company and you wouldn't have been tagged.

Hi yahoo, nice that you look in to it

Let's start with this:

Unless they're involved in selling merits, then i'm really not interested.

He didn't have to sell anything, he just cheated by trading merits between his own accounts. It is confirmed, where you have doubts?

Edit: Even if my feelings were hurt, is it mean that his cheating have point to get no consequences?

[holydarkness]

[...]

As I wrote earlier, this is information that has been found by other users. I don't know how these two accounts managed to avoid the consequences of this scam. I'm guessing this is just an oversight.

I don't understand this part. Which scam is this? The merit abuse? Or did you find another evidences [that you're yet to present here on this thread] that they scammed someone?

[Pipshunter]

[...]

As I wrote earlier, this is information that has been found by other users. I don't know how these two accounts managed to avoid the consequences of this scam. I'm guessing this is just an oversight.

I don't understand this part. Which scam is this? The merit abuse? Or did you find another evidences [that you're yet to present here on this thread] that they scammed someone?

At this point, I am presenting evidence that a fraud has occurred. Yes, merit abuse!
edited..


Is the merit abuse scam something that DT members no longer pays attention to?

[Poker Player]

Is the merit abuse scam something that DT members no longer pays attention to?

If it comes down to that alone, I don't think you're going to get more than a neutral tag. Another thing is that apart from the merit abuse it is seen that they are alts that have joined the same campaign or that have plagiarized, things like that, as it has happened in other occasions.

Theymos himself said that he was not going to give importance in merit issues to anything but selling merits.

[Pipshunter]

Is the merit abuse scam something that DT members no longer pays attention to?

If it comes down to that alone, I don't think you're going to get more than a neutral tag. Another thing is that apart from the merit abuse it is seen that they are alts that have joined the same campaign or that have plagiarized, things like that, as it has happened in other occasions.

Theymos himself said that he was not going to give importance in merit issues to anything but selling merits.

Nobody talk here about plagiarism, campaign cheating or other things. Case is clear - Merit system abuse!

Is it a scam or not? Say it straight and we'll all know what to do whit it

[Poker Player]

...Merit system abuse!

Is it a scam or not? Say it straight and we'll all know what to do whit it

It's not.

If a DT member tags you for something stupid involving merit (ie. probably anything less than selling merit), then they're not going to be a DT member for much longer.

If theymos says this, don't expect much from the DTs in this regard.

[Pipshunter]

...Merit system abuse!

Is it a scam or not? Say it straight and we'll all know what to do whit it

It's not.

If a DT member tags you for something stupid involving merit (ie. probably anything less than selling merit), then they're not going to be a DT member for much longer.

If theymos says this, don't expect much from the DTs in this regard.

Congratulations! You just justified every merit scam! 

[holydarkness]

...Merit system abuse!

Is it a scam or not? Say it straight and we'll all know what to do whit it

It's not.

If a DT member tags you for something stupid involving merit (ie. probably anything less than selling merit), then they're not going to be a DT member for much longer.

If theymos says this, don't expect much from the DTs in this regard.

Congratulations! You just justified every merit scam! 

I'll quote this one as it summarizes the latest exchanges of communication. Has someone suffered a damage or financial lost caused by the user you mentioned? Or, does the user you mentioned poses a risk of causing other user financial damage?

[Pipshunter]

...Merit system abuse!

Is it a scam or not? Say it straight and we'll all know what to do whit it

It's not.

If a DT member tags you for something stupid involving merit (ie. probably anything less than selling merit), then they're not going to be a DT member for much longer.

If theymos says this, don't expect much from the DTs in this regard.

Congratulations! You just justified every merit scam! 

I'll quote this one as it summarizes the latest exchanges of communication. Has someone suffered a damage or financial lost caused by the user you mentioned? Or, does the user you mentioned poses a risk of causing other user financial damage?

Do you think fraud is only about money? I have provided evidence of cheating. Are you defending someone who deliberately wanted to cheat the community?

[Despairo]

Congratulations! You just justified every merit scam! 

Do you think fraud is only about money? I have provided evidence of cheating. Are you defending someone who deliberately wanted to cheat the community?

There's no such merit scam. I wouldn't say merit exchange with alt accounts is cheat the community, but it's unethical. Since @theymos already pointed out leaving negative feedback because of merit exchange isn't appropriate, then we need to deal with it.

What I don't understand is why no one give neutral feedback to both @Haunebu and @3kpk3 accounts? this can be a reference whenever a campaign manager want to accept them to be in the campaign.

However I checked the feedback you leaved on their accounts, do you think you're correct by leaving negative feedback? I will tag your account with neutral feedback.

Haunebu   2023-08-14   Reference   Merit system abuser
3kpk3   2023-08-14   Reference   Merit system abuser

[Pipshunter]

Congratulations! You just justified every merit scam! 

Do you think fraud is only about money? I have provided evidence of cheating. Are you defending someone who deliberately wanted to cheat the community?

There's no such merit scam. I wouldn't say merit exchange with alt accounts is cheat the community, but it's unethical. Since @theymos already pointed out leaving negative feedback because of merit exchange isn't appropriate, then we need to deal with it.

What I don't understand is why no one give neutral feedback to both @Haunebu and @3kpk3 accounts? this can be a reference whenever a campaign manager want to accept them to be in the campaign.

However I checked the feedback you leaved on their accounts, do you think you're correct by leaving negative feedback? I will tag your account with neutral feedback.

Haunebu   2023-08-14   Reference   Merit system abuser
3kpk3   2023-08-14   Reference   Merit system abuser

If you give one person permission to do bad things, you either don't realize what you're judging or you don't know what you're doing.

[nutildah]

Meh. They haven't exchanged merits since 2018, almost 5 years ago. Only one of the accounts is in a signature campaign. In general its not really a good idea to tag users retroactively for this kind of thing, especially since it happened so long ago.

There's a couple of (what I strongly suspect are) farms of sig campaigners that frequently exchange merit with themselves. If/when I do bust them, the merit exchange will be supplementary evidence and not the primary reason for the tag.

For example, a long while back there was an account farm that exchanged just enough merits to rank themselves up enough to qualify for DT voting... They were blacklisted from the trust system by theymos and received tags from various DT for attempting to manipulate the trust system.

They're all now excluded from the DT selection process, so if the goal was to manipulate DT, someone blew ~580 sMerit in order to ultimately fail doing so.

Additionally, theymos offered this guideline about the issuance of red trust for minor 'crimes':

- Forgiveness: Often people make fairly small mistakes, but then they seemingly get red-trusted for life. This isn't really fair, and it discourages participation due to paranoia: if you think that you have a 1% chance of running afoul of some unwritten rule and getting red-trusted for life, you might just avoid the marketplace altogether. Red trust should mostly be based on an evaluation of what the person is likely to do in the future moreso than a punishment/mark-of-shame.

[Pipshunter]

Meh. They haven't exchanged merits since 2018, almost 5 years ago. Only one of the accounts is in a signature campaign. In general its not really a good idea to tag users retroactively for this kind of thing, especially since it happened so long ago.
...

I like this approach, is there an option to remove negative reviews from a few years ago?

Actually, why are you defending this scammer Haunebu and 3kpk3?

Will you defend all cheaters in this same way?

Is it really that you don't want to admit I'm right because I have a red tag associated with 1xbit? Wouldn't it be nice to prove me right, huh?

Now think about what it would look like if I did it with a green account?! Would you be on other side?

[nutildah]

I like this approach, is there an option to remove negative reviews from a few years ago?

Certainly. If the account that left the negative is still around, you just need to ask them to remove the negative. Perhaps present a thoughtful explanation to them why you think it should be removed.

Actually, why are you defending this scammer Haunebu and 3kpk3?

What's the scam here?

Will you defend all cheaters in this same way?

Obviously not.

Is it really that you don't want to admit I'm right because I have a red tag associated with 1xbit? Wouldn't it be nice to prove me right, huh?

Now think about what it would look like if I did it with a green account?! Would you be on other side?

But you're not right. I didn't even bother to check your references because they have nothing to do with the issue you presented. So no, I would not be on the other side if you had a 'green account'.

[noorman0]

I like this approach, is there an option to remove negative reviews from a few years ago?

Convince the tagger via PM to remove it or open a thread about it to see how many users support deletion, usually it heavily influences the tagger's judgment.

-snip-
why are you defending this scammer Haunebu and 3kpk3?

Not wanting to flag does not mean defending, DT Members will no longer aggressively flagging in merit abuse unless it is related to other issues that incur financial losses. Again, the evidence you bring with you is not enough to call them scammers by community standards. In the real life, not all abuse is part of scam.

[holydarkness]

I'll quote this one as it summarizes the latest exchanges of communication. Has someone suffered a damage or financial lost caused by the user you mentioned? Or, does the user you mentioned poses a risk of causing other user financial damage?

Do you think fraud is only about money? I have provided evidence of cheating. Are you defending someone who deliberately wanted to cheat the community?

They're [arguably] abusing merit, I'll take your word for that and won't bother to crosscheck, but do they cheat the community that warrant a negative feedback? You requested us, the DTs, why doesn't we leave them a negative feedback. And you've been repetitively asked, "what scam?"

Perhaps I should invite you to reacquaint yourself with what trust feedback said and dictate,



Do the users you mentioned poses a high-risk to the community if they trade with them? If you can provide arguments backed with evidences that they poses such threat --thus will potentially scam the community-- I'll probably consider about leaving tag. Otherwise, it's a case of merit abuse, not a scam.