[WARNING] Whirlwind.money - withdrawals are not being processed ⚠️

[examplens]

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has offered their support here. I appreciate it. Unfortunately, there hasn't been any progress on my whirlwind case. My money is still stuck with them, and the available balance on my private note displays: 0 BTC, without any explanation provided whatsoever. I get that a hundred bucks or so might not be a big deal to a bunch of folks here, but it's a big deal to me. It's not gonna break the bank, but hey, it's still my money we're talking about!

I'm really open to hearing your thoughts on what my next move should be. What would you do if you were in my shoes? Your opinions are much appreciated!

Honestly, I didn't like the whole idea of staking on their platform from the beginning. I see every mixer as a platform that should serve as simply as possible and in the shortest time. When we add to that the regular difficulties and risks for each mixer, holding Bitcoin there is a bad idea for users.
I talked about it at the beginning of the implementation of this idea

decodx, In your case, I would be patient for a while longer, considering the last communication between the campaign manager and the Whirlwind representative. Take into account the possible time difference, so accept a maximum waiting time. You certainly have every right to ask for your money, it's somehow especially bad when you lose money that you entrusted to someone. Regardless of whether it is $100 or $5000 or even more.
I didn't use their service after the introduction of anonymity mining, but are there any traces that you can use to prove the last unsuccessful withdrawal? In case of a refund from a third ^escrow party.

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[decodx]

decodx, In your case, I would be patient for a while longer, considering the last communication between the campaign manager and the Whirlwind representative. Take into account the possible time difference, so accept a maximum waiting time. You certainly have every right to ask for your money, it's somehow especially bad when you lose money that you entrusted to someone. Regardless of whether it is $100 or $5000 or even more.
I didn't use their service after the introduction of anonymity mining, but are there any traces that you can use to prove the last unsuccessful withdrawal? In case of a refund from a third ^escrow party.

Thanks. I didn't use their "anonymity mining" feature either. All I wanted was to mix some coins that I use to pay for certain services, in order to enhance my privacy, just like I've done in the past.

I've got all the evidence, and I sent it to them privately because I didn't want to put it out in the open just yet. I've got my note's public address, the Letter of Guarantee, the TXID for my deposit, and I can even sign the address I used to deposit if they want. Of course, I don't know how to prove that I didn't get anything back since they haven't made any transaction from their end.

[Nwada001]

I'm really open to hearing your thoughts on what my next move should be. What would you do if you were in my shoes? Your opinions are much appreciated!

It hurts to get your funds stock somewhere because of the inconvenience it might have caused you as a result of not getting the money when needed. But there is nothing that could really be done right now rather than just waiting for a positive response from them, as they assured Hhampu to get things working again in the next few hours, which is near. I will just have to advise you to be patient and wait a little longer if withdrawal is not processed. At least the team should be able to come in and clear the air with a detailed explanation of the matter at hand if it's something different from just being far from the authorization access.

[TryNinja]

I've got my note's public address, the Letter of Guarantee, the TXID for my deposit, and I can even sign the address I used to deposit if they want. Of course, I don't know how to prove that I didn't get anything back since they haven't made any transaction from their end.

Hopefully you don’t have to do that, but it’s quite trivial. You said have a signed LoG saying you withdrew X BTC to the address Y, all you have to do is post the note and everyone can see through a block explorer that your address hasn’t received the coins.

[fillippone]

decodx, In your case, I would be patient for a while longer, considering the last communication between the campaign manager and the Whirlwind representative. Take into account the possible time difference, so accept a maximum waiting time.

Still, all that they told Hhampuz didn't happen. I didn't see any variation on their exchange wallet, as no deposit was processed, nor any post here on the forum. They didn’t answer my email, or process any mining reward payments (those are totally off chain).
Given the amount of scrutiny they are facing, not ideal.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has offered their support here. I appreciate it. Unfortunately, there hasn't been any progress on my whirlwind case. My money is still stuck with them, and the available balance on my private note displays: 0 BTC, without any explanation provided whatsoever. I get that a hundred bucks or so might not be a big deal to a bunch of folks here, but it's a big deal to me. It's not gonna break the bank, but hey, it's still my money we're talking about!

I'm really open to hearing your thoughts on what my next move should be. What would you do if you were in my shoes? Your opinions are much appreciated!

Honestly, I didn't like the whole idea of staking on their platform from the beginning. I see every mixer as a platform that should serve as simply as possible and in the shortest time. When we add to that the regular difficulties and risks for each mixer, holding Bitcoin there is a bad idea for users.
I talked about it at the beginning of the implementation of this idea

Point [1.] When someone is going to ask me to stake my bitcoin in a wallet where I have no control then I will say no. Not my key not my coin. I fail to understand why bitcointalk members fail to realize this simple law of bitcoin.
Point [2.] Considering the nature of the business [mixers], I like something which will give my coins as fast as it is possible. Today a mixer looks very popular and promising, after few hours it can be seized by the authority or anything can happen and if my coins are there then I will lose it.

Unusual mixing method nature: Here is another thing I find really bad. Normally when an address is given from a mixer with their Letter of Guarantee, the letter includes deposit address, amount [either deposit or withdrawal] and withdrawal address. Give attention, there are THREE key information you need to verify instead of trusting the words and all three should be in the letter. But unfortunately in WWM you have no chance to have these three keys together. The note system made is complected. If I send 1 btc to mix and then if I withdraw 0.5 btc and 0.5 left in my note but today if that disappears and WWM demands that I myself withdrew it, how will I prove it wrong?

I've got all the evidence, and I sent it to them privately because I didn't want to put it out in the open just yet. I've got my note's public address, the Letter of Guarantee, the TXID for my deposit, and I can even sign the address I used to deposit if they want. Of course, I don't know how to prove that I didn't get anything back since they haven't made any transaction from their end.

This Letter of Guarantee is useless I think if you are talking about the Letter when you deposited.

[decodx]

It hurts to get your funds stock somewhere because of the inconvenience it might have caused you as a result of not getting the money when needed. But there is nothing that could really be done right now rather than just waiting for a positive response from them, as they assured Hhampu to get things working again in the next few hours, which is near. I will just have to advise you to be patient and wait a little longer if withdrawal is not processed. At least the team should be able to come in and clear the air with a detailed explanation of the matter at hand if it's something different from just being far from the authorization access.

Thank you. I hope you're right.

I've got my note's public address, the Letter of Guarantee, the TXID for my deposit, and I can even sign the address I used to deposit if they want. Of course, I don't know how to prove that I didn't get anything back since they haven't made any transaction from their end.

Hopefully you don’t have to do that, but it’s quite trivial. You said have a signed LoG saying you withdrew X BTC to the address Y, all you have to do is post the note and everyone can see through a block explorer that your address hasn’t received the coins.

Yes, you're right. Luckily, I've saved both LoGs - one for my deposit and another for my withdrawal.

decodx, In your case, I would be patient for a while longer, considering the last communication between the campaign manager and the Whirlwind representative. Take into account the possible time difference, so accept a maximum waiting time.

Still, all that they told Hhampuz didn't happen. I didn't see any variation on their exchange wallet, as no deposit was processed, nor any post here on the forum. They didn’t answer my email, or process any mining reward payments (those are totally off chain).
Given the amount of scrutiny they are facing, not ideal.

Honestly, I was a bit surprised when I saw that Hhampuz decided to resume the signature campaign and suggested that everyone can put their signatures back up. This is despite the fact that the Whirlwind service is still non-functional, and there's a risk that using the mixing service could result in money being stuck on the platform. But of course, I don't really know who he's talking to or what he's been told to assure him that everything will be fine. I just want to point out that I haven't received any response from them so far, and I find it odd that they're communicating with the campaign manager while ignoring their customers.

<...>
This Letter of Guarantee is useless I think if you are talking about the Letter when you deposited.

BitcoinGirl.Club I completely agree with both of your points. Regarding their withdrawal method, it seems like they wanted to emulate ChipMixer, although it seems to me that CM did it slightly better.
You are also right about the Letter of Guarantee. Luckily I have both, but it wouldn't have been like that if I hadn't requested a withdrawal and the balance on my note disappeared.

[albon]

It hurts to get your funds stock somewhere because of the inconvenience it might have caused you as a result of not getting the money when needed. But there is nothing that could really be done right now rather than just waiting for a positive response from them, as they assured Hhampu to get things working again in the next few hours, which is near. I will just have to advise you to be patient and wait a little longer if withdrawal is not processed. At least the team should be able to come in and clear the air with a detailed explanation of the matter at hand if it's something different from just being far from the authorization access.

Unfortunately, there is a sad piece of news I have read that the whirlwind team has not come to post an update yet regarding the things that happened last week on their site, so veteran bounty manager Hhampuz will not continue to promote this signature campaign and will be put it on hold indefinitely. The payments have already been sent for round 20 to Participants to their notes, and the signature campaign participants can now remove signatures and avatars.

Round 20 Payments have been sent to your Notes!

Thank you all for yet another great week. Unfortunately I'm putting this campaign on hold indefinitely. I was hoping whirlwind would have come here and posted an update by now but we discussed the campaign among other things last night and right now it's looking like we will not continue with this campaign. It's been nearly 5 months and while I would have hoped things to turn out in a different way it is what it is. It's been an absolute pleasure to work with a lot of you, some for the first time, and hopefully we can do so again in the future.

I'm patiently waiting for whirlwind to come back to the forum with their update and comments regarding the "frozen" state of the site over this past week.

You can now remove your Signatures and Avatars and apply to other campaigns.

I do not know frankly what circumstances the whirlwind team is going through, which prevented them from returning to write an update to reassure the community and respond to their emails. I hope that the withdrawal will open and process mining reward payments and that the Whirlwind mixer clients complete their transactions smoothly, and that the signature campaign will return ASAP so that the community’s concern does not increase and does not get a wrong impression about this Whirlwind Mixer.

[Nwada001]

Honestly, I was a bit surprised when I saw that Hhampuz decided to resume the signature campaign and suggested that everyone can put their signatures back up. This is despite the fact that the Whirlwind service is still non-functional, and there's a risk that using the mixing service could result in money being stuck on the platform. But of course, I don't really know who he's talking to or what he's been told to assure him that everything will be fine. I just want to point out that I haven't received any response from them so far, and I find it odd that they're communicating with the campaign manager while ignoring their customers.

The campaign was paused after several issues with users not receiving their withdrawal yet and was later reopened after the manager got feedback from the team with the assurance that everything would be resolved in the next couple of hours, which the manager also shared with the community both on the ANN thread and that of the Signature campaign thread.
This night, the manager seems to be disappointed by the lack of action by the team, as they have failed to keep to their part of the process in regard to getting the issue resolved and also addressing the issue. I think it's really the right thing to do to get the campaign paused for the main time so that those who are not aware of the ongoing situation might not move ahead to use the service and also get their money stocked in their accounts.

Edit: @albon Just got the information few minutes ago.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

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This Letter of Guarantee is useless I think if you are talking about the Letter when you deposited.

BitcoinGirl.Club I completely agree with both of your points. Regarding their withdrawal method, it seems like they wanted to emulate ChipMixer, although it seems to me that CM did it slightly better.
You are also right about the Letter of Guarantee. Luckily I have both, but it wouldn't have been like that if I hadn't requested a withdrawal and the balance on my note disappeared.

Point is, I will not trust a mixing service to hold my coin for long days. With Chipmixer they provided me the withdrawal private keys as soon as one confirmation was made of my deposit. When the private keys are in my possession, it was my responsibility to secure any coin on the keys, they never encouraged me to hold the coins in those private keys. I don't see anything for WWM that they wanted to emulate with Chipmixer. They wanted to take the empty space of Chipmixer and the hype they created was with the unexpected very high paying signature campaign.

Look at it from the business perspective:
[1.] Is the business making enough money? No.
[2.] What is the ratio of business and marketing expense? Very abnormal ratio of expense than income.
If I have a thousand btc then may be I can afford it, question is do they have a thousand btc? All we saw were few btc on that 2 of 3 address and $40k deposited to minerjones. I really hope I am wrong about them and they will come back to operate normal like before.

One very important concern in the business model was the way they always encouraged people to keep the coins in their platform. All they provided was a private note with some numbers and text string, you can not use publicly to verify balance. Does it sound like a Ponzi scheme?

So right now you have no balance is showing on your note but you did not receive the coin too?

[Billo_]

Yes
It really looks like exit scam.
Site is not accessible anymore: http://whirlwind.money/
Really sad news but I've called it earlier when I've sait it's just a matter of time:  

What is the matter with you. Do you take time to read?
Several members says the clearnet has been off for a while but the onion site was functional until recently.

I have read, Sir
It's still not work today and I will just wait for more official announcement.

I've got all the evidence, and I sent it to them privately because I didn't want to put it out in the open just yet. I've got my note's public address, the Letter of Guarantee, the TXID for my deposit, and I can even sign the address I used to deposit if they want. Of course, I don't know how to prove that I didn't get anything back since they haven't made any transaction from their end.

We will receive coins back if whirlwind money has given a guarantee on it?
How will it work, Sir?

It's not like private key isn't it?
Only for private key, coins is really our coin.


shasan just reported it doesn't work for him as well:

I am trying to withdraw funds for several weeks. But when I try to open the site it shows to me like the mentioned images. I think it is happening only to me as I could not find out any post like this.

[decodx]

So right now you have no balance is showing on your note but you did not receive the coin too?

That's right. I created a note, deposited funds, and then requested a withdrawal to different addresses. Whirlwind executed all these steps without any apparent issues, and now my note's balance displays 0 BTC. However, the coins never actually arrived in my wallet.

[hugeblack]

I visited the site a little while ago, I created a note, and pressed deposit button, and there is no warning about using the service or that there are problems with withdrawal, and this is a very bad indicator, if there is a problem, at least make a big warning before deposit.


According to the multi-signature address, the withdrawal was on the 9th and there is no update, so I think that the number of people whose money is still in the service is large. Does anyone know what the terms of the contract with @minerjones? Are 40k only for review campaign, or can they be used to compensate users if the service turns into scam?

One very important concern in the business model was the way they always encouraged people to keep the coins in their platform. All they provided was a private note with some numbers and text string, you can not use publicly to verify balance. Does it sound like a Ponzi scheme?

The idea of the site is unique and their technical background is good, but it seems that they do not have enough liquidity to create a decentralized mixing service. we'll have to wait a long time to see a mixing service with blinded bearer certificates.

[examplens]

According to the multi-signature address, the withdrawal was on the 9th and there is no update, so I think that the number of people whose money is still in the service is large. Does anyone know what the terms of the contract with @minerjones? Are 40k only for review campaign, or can they be used to compensate users if the service turns into scam?

I don't see a problem if the funds from the escrow were used to settle the user, regardless of the fact that it was initially planned for the review campaign. Which, by the way, was finished a long time ago. The problem is that it is difficult to prove how much someone had/tried to withdraw because there is no irrefutable evidence for that. All they have is a letter of guarantee or notes, but that can very easily be forged, which will certainly be tempting to scammers.
Also, after the withdrawal request, the balance going to be 0, so in the event that the escrow gets direct access to the private key, it will not be able to determine the owner and amount of funds with certainty.

I have read, Sir
It's still not work today and I will just wait for more official announcement.

This is not true. You haven't read anything, because if you had, you would know that the unavailability of the Whirlwind website is not the main problem.
Read again, Sir.

We will receive coins back if whirlwind money has given a guarantee on it?
How will it work, Sir?

The problem with the clearnet whirlwind page has been going on for over a month now, and considering your insistence on it, I'm pretty sure you've never used Whirlwind, at least not in the last month.
Why do you act as a victim in this case? Why do you say "We"?

[holydarkness]

[...]
I have read, Sir
It's still not work today and I will just wait for more official announcement.
 
[...]

shasan just reported it doesn't work for him as well:
[...]

As been repetitively informed, their clearnet has been down for a while, their tor version is still up and running though. Charles-Tim already gave you a guide on how to use the tor site from the other thread. If you're still unclear about how to use tor and want to try to access their tor site, I can guide you step by step. But, the current advise for the time being is to refrain from depositing until the pending transactions came through.

[hugeblack]

I don't see a problem if the funds from the escrow were used to settle the user, regardless of the fact that it was initially planned for the review campaign. Which, by the way, was finished a long time ago. The problem is that it is difficult to prove how much someone had/tried to withdraw because there is no irrefutable evidence for that. All they have is a letter of guarantee or notes, but that can very easily be forged, which will certainly be tempting to scammers.
Also, after the withdrawal request, the balance going to be 0, so in the event that the escrow gets direct access to the private key, it will not be able to determine the owner and amount of funds with certainty.

The last time I used WWM was after adding the concept of notes public key, so I don't remember the details of withdrawal, but I think that sending a note private key to minerjones would solve the problem because it was the only way to prove user ownership.

Anyway, I hope they go back, I'll give them 3 more days, maybe they were in Hawaii where there were fires or in Southeast Asia where there was typhoon.
after that it is better to consider what happened as scam and start minimizing the damage as much as possible.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Does anyone know what the terms of the contract with @minerjones? Are 40k only for review campaign, or can they be used to compensate users if the service turns into scam?

I don't see a problem compensating the victims with the fund available in escrow. If a scammer scam someone and if an escrow have the fund then sending back the fund to the scammer will be weird. I am sure a lot of people joined their campaign knowing some $40k funds are in hold and the campaign manager is holding the signature payment.

Is someone considering leaving a negative feedback to Whirlwind's feedback page? Or it is too early to do such thing, may be doing so will let them run away without changing their mind.

One very important concern in the business model was the way they always encouraged people to keep the coins in their platform. All they provided was a private note with some numbers and text string, you can not use publicly to verify balance. Does it sound like a Ponzi scheme?

The idea of the site is unique and their technical background is good, but it seems that they do not have enough liquidity to create a decentralized mixing service. we'll have to wait a long time to see a mixing service with blinded bearer certificates.

In bitcoin when someone is offering you to send them your coin and hold it in their custody, it's always unique LOL
I will never allow a third party to hold even a 100 mbtc for me. Not your key not your coin, very simple.

Regarding technical background, scammers are always smarter than average people or you and would never was scammed.

[FatFork]

I don't see a problem if the funds from the escrow were used to settle the user, regardless of the fact that it was initially planned for the review campaign. Which, by the way, was finished a long time ago. The problem is that it is difficult to prove how much someone had/tried to withdraw because there is no irrefutable evidence for that. All they have is a letter of guarantee or notes, but that can very easily be forged, which will certainly be tempting to scammers.
Also, after the withdrawal request, the balance going to be 0, so in the event that the escrow gets direct access to the private key, it will not be able to determine the owner and amount of funds with certainty.

The last time I used WWM was after adding the concept of notes public key, so I don't remember the details of withdrawal, but I think that sending a note private key to minerjones would solve the problem because it was the only way to prove user ownership.

If nothing has changed since I last used WhirlWind, I believe there are two possible scenarios here that need to be addressed:

1. Users with remaining funds on their notes: To verify this, a potential solution would be to share the private key of the note with a trusted forum member who can verify its contents. This action should be taken promptly while the WhirlWind site is still accessible.

2. Users who requested withdrawals, either in full or partially, from their WhirlWind note to a private wallet: In this scenario, the available balance on the note would either be decreased by the withdrawn amount or down to zero. To prove an unsuccessful withdrawal, affected users should provide a signed message (letter of guarantee) generated by the WhirlWind during the withdrawal request. By comparing the information within the signed message with blockchain transactions, it should be possible to verify the status of the withdrawal and the amount owed.

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Is someone considering leaving a negative feedback to Whirlwind's feedback page? Or it is too early to do such thing, may be doing so will let them run away without changing their mind.

Yes, I thought about it, but somehow I wanted to give them an additional deadline compared to what they promised the campaign manager. I take into account some possible unforeseen circumstances, even if this is what hugeblack mentioned.
However, I would encourage decodx as the OP on this topic and one of the potential victims of ww, to create a flag against them. It should be more of a warning and to reduce the damage and potential new victims. I will support such a flag, I will also be happy to withdraw my support if there is a positive resolution to the whole matter.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

However, I would encourage decodx as the OP on this topic and one of the potential victims of ww, to create a flag against them. It should be more of a warning and to reduce the damage and potential new victims. I will support such a flag, I will also be happy to withdraw my support if there is a positive resolution to the whole matter.

I already left a negative feedback after considering the possibility that anyone who is not aware can find themselves deposited their coins and they will have same fate like decodx. If decodx decides to create a flag then I suggest to post the Letter of Guarantee and create the flag. I will have no problem to support it.