Prosecution to use Caroline Ellison notes as evidence against SBF

[Majestic-milf]

 Fresh trouble looms for former FTX CEO Sam Bankman-Fried as prosecutors seek to use the personal notes of sister trading firm Alameda former CEO, Caroline Ellison as evidence against him..
 The prosecution intends to present into evidence some handwritten and typed notes that Ellison had maintained to keep track of the conspiracy's activities, also citing notes from previous meetings that discussed the financial health of Alameda and it's liability to FTX.
According to the prosecution, these notes are to memorialize info supplied to her to provide a reference to help carry out her role in the conspiracy.
 Just last week, he was arrested after the US DOJ discovered that the gag order placed against him to avoid making statements that might obstruct a fair trial was not enough.
Sam looks to be in deep shit as Caroline, who used to be in a romantic relationship with him would be one of the key witnesses against him.
 Her notes also offer insights to the day to day operations of the allegedly fraudulent activities at FTX and this includes a recording of Ellison in a meeting on Nov 9, 2022 two days before FTX and Alameda filed for bankruptcy.

 Personally, I think this issue has lingered for far too long and hope this new evidence should see him cooling off in prison for a very long time for mismanaging the funds of both investors and users.

https://decrypt.co/152650/prosecutors-use-caroline-ellisons-personal-notes-evidence-against-sbf

[Eternad]

Does notes such as personal diary can be use as evidence to a case? Since everything that listed in there is just a personal opinion the owner(Caroline) which makes it a hearsay imho since that is not SBF actual hand writing or anything that will prove that SBF really did it unless there's a picture and proper documentation to support what it's stating.

You attached too a wrong source. Probably, you mean this article https://decrypt.co/152650/prosecutors-use-caroline-ellisons-personal-notes-evidence-against-sbf

[zasad@]

Did the US Department of Justice collect little evidence on this fool?
The problem here is that these 2 main drug addicts and their team did not act independently, and they had their patrons in higher authorities. Therefore, next year we will see even more vivid rhetoric of some American politicians before the elections.

[Majestic-milf]

Does notes such as personal diary can be use as evidence to a case? Since everything that listed in there is just a personal opinion the owner(Caroline) which makes it a hearsay imho since that is not SBF actual hand writing or anything that will prove that SBF really did it unless there's a picture and proper documentation to support what it's stating.

You are right. But considering she'd be testifying, that can count as something. Granted, he can deny these sayings as just mere sayings on her part, but a personal diary can contain relevant evidence which can be discoverable. Her notes seem to detail meetings with herself and SBF where he disclosed some issues about the company to her and this can serve as evidence, right? Well I'm not an expert. I guess we'd find how it all went down

You attached too a wrong source. Probably, you mean this article https://decrypt.co/152650/prosecutors-use-caroline-ellisons-personal-notes-evidence-against-sbf

Thanks. I've fixed it.

[zasad@]

You are right. But considering she'd be testifying, that can count as something. Granted, he can deny these sayings as just mere sayings on her part, but a personal diary can contain relevant evidence which can be discoverable. Her notes seem to detail meetings with herself and SBF where he disclosed some issues about the company to her and this can serve as evidence, right? Well I'm not an expert. I guess we'd find how it all went down

This is another news story. In the US, there are 2 types of lawsuit. In the first version, Sam Bankman-Freed agrees with all the charges, cooperates with the authorities, and the trial takes place in a fast procedure with a minimum sentence. If Sam Bankman-Freed refuses, and agrees to a jury trial, then if found guilty, he may receive a long prison sentence or be acquitted. The jury will decide whose testimony is more honest.

[bittraffic]

Suddenly this story changed a lot and it seem like Caroline is throwing SBF under the bus. Plea bargain for Sweet Caroline while SBF takes the fall after all the people will still be blaming him for what happened to the funds under his watch.

You are right. But considering she'd be testifying, that can count as something. Granted, he can deny these sayings as just mere sayings on her part, but a personal diary can contain relevant evidence which can be discoverable. Her notes seem to detail meetings with herself and SBF where he disclosed some issues about the company to her and this can serve as evidence, right? Well I'm not an expert. I guess we'd find how it all went down

This is another news story. In the US, there are 2 types of lawsuit. In the first version, Sam Bankman-Freed agrees with all the charges, cooperates with the authorities, and the trial takes place in a fast procedure with a minimum sentence. If Sam Bankman-Freed refuses, and agrees to a jury trial, then if found guilty, he may receive a long prison sentence or be acquitted. The jury will decide whose testimony is more honest.

Too bad for the kid to have mixed himself with the worse crime organization. Somebody has to fall anyway and it wouldn't be Carol nor Gensler or anyone else from the ones SBF had bribed. SBF used to have access to media where he can be interviewed and even attend conferences, it is different this time. 

[zasad@]

Suddenly this story changed a lot and it seem like Caroline is throwing SBF under the bus. Plea bargain for Sweet Caroline while SBF takes the fall after all the people will still be blaming him for what happened to the funds under his watch.

You are right. But considering she'd be testifying, that can count as something. Granted, he can deny these sayings as just mere sayings on her part, but a personal diary can contain relevant evidence which can be discoverable. Her notes seem to detail meetings with herself and SBF where he disclosed some issues about the company to her and this can serve as evidence, right? Well I'm not an expert. I guess we'd find how it all went down

This is another news story. In the US, there are 2 types of lawsuit. In the first version, Sam Bankman-Freed agrees with all the charges, cooperates with the authorities, and the trial takes place in a fast procedure with a minimum sentence. If Sam Bankman-Freed refuses, and agrees to a jury trial, then if found guilty, he may receive a long prison sentence or be acquitted. The jury will decide whose testimony is more honest.

Too bad for the kid to have mixed himself with the worse crime organization. Somebody has to fall anyway and it wouldn't be Carol nor Gensler or anyone else from the ones SBF had bribed. SBF used to have access to media where he can be interviewed and even attend conferences, it is different this time.  

Do you think that this guy did not understand that he was engaged in criminal activities, as a result of which many people and commercial organizations lost their money?
But to be honest, he still has a chance to get a small prison term.
I think that he is still needed for high-profile revelations before the US elections, so his criminal case is in progress.

[Majestic-milf]

Suddenly this story changed a lot and it seem like Caroline is throwing SBF under the bus. Plea bargain for Sweet Caroline while SBF takes the fall after all the people will still be blaming him for what happened to the funds under his watch.

You wouldn't blame her though. It's as if she's suddenly realized how mixing with SBF was such a bad idea. If I was him, I'd gladly do as she did by cooperating with the prosecution and pleading guilty rather than prolonging the whole issue. From what we know, she is his principal accomplice even though there are others.
 The way I see it, if they (the prosecution) decide to dig up some his dirty dealings, it wouldn't end there and he should stop acting like he was accused for something he didn't do.

[NotATether]

I can't believe this dumbass thought it was a good idea to leak his girlfriend's diary which is now being used as evidence against him. What was he thinking? 

Anyway, he's in jail now at least, and it's likely that he'll get sentenced to even more jail time when this court trial is wrapped up.

Too bad for the kid to have mixed himself with the worse crime organization. Somebody has to fall anyway and it wouldn't be Carol nor Gensler or anyone else from the ones SBF had bribed. SBF used to have access to media where he can be interviewed and even attend conferences, it is different this time. 

The SEC is, indeed, the worst crime organization. Mess with them, and you will get ripped apart 

[Yamane_Keto]

I quickly looked at the list of charges against him and it seems that they are sufficient to imprison him for about 20 years. Given the rapid collapse of FTX, there is inevitably mismanagement and exploitation of clients' money. Therefore, accepting the charges and accepting about 10 years in prison is a logical option, especially since his age is still young and he has life. Although I hope that more details will be revealed so that we know how bad and random the management of the platforms is.

[zasad@]

I would wait for information about which prison the SBF will be in. If he stays in a federal facility in Brooklyn, it will be bad for him. If he was transferred to another, more comfortable prison with Internet in Putnam County, it would be a completely different matter. But the most interesting thing is that Caroline Ellison, Gary Wang (FTX co-founder) and Nishada Singha (FTX chief engineer) have already pleaded guilty and are cooperating with the government.

[Yamane_Keto]

I would wait for information about which prison the SBF will be in. If he stays in a federal facility in Brooklyn, it will be bad for him. If he was transferred to another, more comfortable prison with Internet in Putnam County, it would be a completely different matter. But the most interesting thing is that Caroline Ellison, Gary Wang (FTX co-founder) and Nishada Singha (FTX chief engineer) have already pleaded guilty and are cooperating with the government.

It is the safest thinking for everyone who is still in their thirties or forties, ~10-20 years is not a lot, and the person may return to life again and try to say that he is a victim of a conspiracy, and this is what I think will happen. My only regret is for the victims' money, which they may recover after several years, and they may not be able to.

Do you get internet in that prison? This is a low-cost vacation, not a prison.

[zasad@]

I would wait for information about which prison the SBF will be in. If he stays in a federal facility in Brooklyn, it will be bad for him. If he was transferred to another, more comfortable prison with Internet in Putnam County, it would be a completely different matter. But the most interesting thing is that Caroline Ellison, Gary Wang (FTX co-founder) and Nishada Singha (FTX chief engineer) have already pleaded guilty and are cooperating with the government.

It is the safest thinking for everyone who is still in their thirties or forties, ~10-20 years is not a lot, and the person may return to life again and try to say that he is a victim of a conspiracy, and this is what I think will happen. My only regret is for the victims' money, which they may recover after several years, and they may not be able to.

Do you get internet in that prison? This is a low-cost vacation, not a prison.

I think that the American and Russian turbans are very different. In America, a prison is also a business and there are many private prisons for people who have committed minor crimes. Some private prisons do not even have a fence, and prisoners can work, but they are forbidden to leave a certain area. Therefore, the SBF has a chance to get into one of these prisons.

[yhiaali3]

Do you get internet in that prison? This is a low-cost vacation, not a prison.

If you own a corrupt exchange like FTX and a lot of money to bribe politicians and finance elections, you will surely have internet in prison and all the luxuries you want to have, a simple bribe to corrupt politicians and everything is solved.

It is a shame that the case has taken so long Despite the clear evidence and the clear implication of Sam Bankman-Fried on all counts against him, it is a shame to see such things in the country that describes itself as the largest free democracy in the world.

[zasad@]

Do you get internet in that prison? This is a low-cost vacation, not a prison.

If you own a corrupt exchange like FTX and a lot of money to bribe politicians and finance elections, you will surely have internet in prison and all the luxuries you want to have, a simple bribe to corrupt politicians and everything is solved.

It is a shame that the case has taken so long Despite the clear evidence and the clear implication of Sam Bankman-Fried on all counts against him, it is a shame to see such things in the country that describes itself as the largest free democracy in the world.

It is not always possible to solve such issues with bribes. In the United States, elections are coming soon, there will be a lot of political dirt and smart politicians will not risk their positions. Even after the court verdict, when information about the SBF rarely appears in the news feed, it is possible to make the SBF serve his sentence in a good prison. And now he is not in the best position. I said that it is necessary to watch in which prison he will remain now.

[Eternad]

Does notes such as personal diary can be use as evidence to a case? Since everything that listed in there is just a personal opinion the owner(Caroline) which makes it a hearsay imho since that is not SBF actual hand writing or anything that will prove that SBF really did it unless there's a picture and proper documentation to support what it's stating.

You are right. But considering she'd be testifying, that can count as something. Granted, he can deny these sayings as just mere sayings on her part, but a personal diary can contain relevant evidence which can be discoverable. Her notes seem to detail meetings with herself and SBF where he disclosed some issues about the company to her and this can serve as evidence, right? Well I'm not an expert. I guess we'd find how it all went down

Even if she will testify, This kind of evidence is still inadmissible imho because there's sign that SBF is indeed said that. An evidence need to have something that the suspect himself show involvement such as signature, picture doing it or a material own by the suspect himself because this kind of evidence can be manipulated if they will accept someone that list other crime.

Think about if one of your friend that has hatred to you wrote about a crime that he did then involved you while you really doesn't have any involvement.

[zasad@]

Think about if one of your friend that has hatred to you wrote about a crime that he did then involved you while you really doesn't have any involvement.

This is called slander. When the testimony of two participants in the case is opposite, they are not taken into account if there are no other evidence.

[Majestic-milf]

 
Even if she will testify, This kind of evidence is still inadmissible imho because there's sign that SBF is indeed said that. An evidence need to have something that the suspect himself show involvement such as signature, picture doing it or a material own by the suspect himself because this kind of evidence can be manipulated if they will accept someone that list other crime.

You made a point here. It can be inadmissible considering there's not some sort of a video recorded where he said what the diary accuses him of. But it's quite weird that he is the one to submit the diary, probably he wants to discredit her or something. I mean why release such sensitive info to the public, evidence that could help ensure you rot in prison if proven, right? I didn't know he was that dumb.

[DaveF]

It is a shame that the case has taken so long Despite the clear evidence and the clear implication of Sam Bankman-Fried on all counts against him, it is a shame to see such things in the country that describes itself as the largest free democracy in the world.

It's not a long time at all due to the nature of what happened and the fact that he probably will have a jury trial.
The prosecutors what everything to be perfect. Because, if the prosecution messes up on 1 charge that they can't really prove, they then give the jury a reason to question all the other charges they brought.

As for letting in the stuff from Caroline as evidence. It's a risk for both sides. SBF can go with the 'scorned or wronged woman' attack against her or the 'she was the mastermind he just went along since he was getting laid' attack against her. There have been a lot of successful uses of these things against what appeared to be definitive evidence over the years. Let's be honest, guys only, raise your hand if you ever did something monumentally stupid because of a woman. You in the back raise your hand I know you did something.....

On the defense not wanting the evidence in, if she comes across as the young woman who did not know any better and was in awe of him and so on. It allows the prosecution to give a step by step guide of what happened by someone who was there. So if the prosecution can convince a jury of her story then SBF gets it worse.

In the end he will probably plead out and get some time in Danbury Federal Country Club correctional institution.

-Dave

[stompix]

Does notes such as personal diary can be use as evidence to a case? Since everything that listed in there is just a personal opinion the owner(Caroline) which makes it a hearsay imho since that is not SBF actual hand writing or anything that will prove that SBF really did it unless there's a picture and proper documentation to support what it's stating.

Doesn't matter if it's personal, it's evidence of things that have happened and if they can link the discussion presented there to actual events and actions FTX or Alameda took it it will prove they were aware of things and they can't claim they did stuff by mistake. If SBF only defense against those accusations will be that the transcripts are fake, that is revenge etc , etc he will simply be asked what happened in reality, at which point, he knows he is screwed.

I'm pretty sure Caroline thought of this thing when she realized things were becoming dangerous or from the start she wanted to have some dirt on the others, but that doesn't change the content.

I would wait for information about which prison the SBF will be in. If he stays in a federal facility in Brooklyn, it will be bad for him. If he was transferred to another, more comfortable prison with Internet in Putnam County, it would be a completely different matter.

You're speaking from personal experience?
SBF is in a detention center, if ever convicted he will be moved to an FCI, there are virtually zero chances for him to be sentenced for time there.