Privacy Concerns, Can Administrators and Mods Access Personal Messages?

[Hatchy]

On reading through this thread made by ,rachael9385 I came across a puzzling statement that has left me wondering about the privacy of personal messages.
In a response by Solosanz  it was mentioned 

Personal message is private and AFAIK only the administrators can view every users' personal message, since he's not an administrator, he can't scrap personal message.

This statement raised several questions and prompted me to initiate this thread. I delved into some research and found a few older posts where moderators weighed in on the matter. According to a post by Quickseller

Any administrator has the ability to read arbitrary PM's between users, even if they are not reported.
It has been said this will not happen without the consent of at least one of the parties of a message, and I have not seen evidence that contradicts this.

I also came across another reply by hilariousandco

No, we can't directly read PMs, just ones that are reported directly to us. You can send your ref link if it's warranted, but if not and they report the message you'll be banned for unsolicited pm spam

I don't think members have ever taught about this before which I why I decided to raise this thread.
 Although I recognize that the intention behind granting this access might be to counter spam and fraudulent behavior, I personally find the idea of reading other people's private messages invasive. PMs are meant to be personal, and it's troubling to think that anyone apart from the intended recipients or sender can access them.

I know this thread might not make much of sence,  but I understand the need for this discussion and hope to hear from moderators or individuals who can shed light on this matter.

(Please refrain from unnecessary responses.)

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[TryNinja]

theymos has complete access to all databases and software code used by the forum, so you can never assume that your PMs are private, even if he claims he will never read them. Taking this into account, you should never discuss sensitive information through your PMs. Use a proper encrypted solution for that.

[AB de Royse777]

While moderators may not access the PM but administrator can read PMs. The forum software does not encrypt the message to store in the database which means anyone who have database access can also read messages between users.

[Nwada001]

Being an administrator is different from being a moderator, and their access is also not the same.
As your quoted moderator has already stated, Accessing the message is only possible when the person you send the message to reports it over to the moderators for any reason (scam or privacy violation). Reporting a message to the moderators will definitely give them a preview of the message reported so that they can pass a proper judgment on the matter.

But on the side of the administrator, I think he has access to almost everything, unless this forum is not built that way. If not, administrators have access to whatever information they want. But this forum might be different since privacy is highly respected here on the forum, and the Admin is also too busy with other things to go through users personal messages.

[Halab]

You've already found all the answers to your questions.
After that, on a forum (or any other form of communication on internet), if you don't trust the admin, don't use the forum or don't send a PM.

[Faisal2202]

The topic is quite interest to read as i also had these type of questions in my mind but i never tried to think more about these. Because reasons is, i do not have anything personal to share on PMs that i should avoid to send. If i have to give some contact of me then i prefer to use TG and we all know how secure they are.

But, few days back I had an encounter in my Local board where our board moderator Xalolex edited one of ours local member's post and i was stunned to see that but Xalolex is a nice and friendly moderator he edited the post to correct the mistake made by the member and he also gave whole clarification of the matter after asking. Because I got curious so I asked him/her and he replied politely i am really impressed.

Well, coming back to the discussion, he said, yeah we have permission to read and modify user's posts but he did not mentioned any PMs details but i doubt that these moderators are given the access to PMs because PMs access is something personal and it would be in the hand of Administrator only which is Theymos and I do not know anyone else here who would have access to PMs.

[SamReomo]

Yes, the administrators can access anything on the forum because they have the access to everything. The administrator can read private messages between two users and he/she can also access those messages even if a user deletes those messages after the conversation. The administrator is the most powerful entity of a forum or site and he/she has access to all the permissions and functions of a site.

The moderators might not have that many privileges and they may not be able to access the private messages on a forum, but that also depends on the structure of a forum if the admin of a forum decides to grant such permissions to moderators then they will also be able to access those private messages between two users. In most of the forums only admin is the central authority that can access or change anything in a forum without anyone's permissions while moderators may hold high privileges than other users, but still they have limited permissions as compare to an admin.

I would still recommend you to avoid sending any messages that may violate the rules of the forum because sending of such messages isn't a good act and if admins may later found such messages then they may take strict actions against such users who violate the terms and conditions of the forum. There are some strict rules of this forum which every user has to follow despite of their status or activity level, and anyone if breaks those rules then those users may face hard times on this forum. But, if a user follows the rules and doesn't do anything that's against the rules of the forum then there won't be any problem for such users.
 

[Welsh]

As for personal messages which are reported; I don't know what personal message reports look like exactly, however it might be worth considering removing who reported it, so that at least prevents the moderator knowing whom it was too, unless it was otherwise stated in the personal message. However, that might be the default behaviour, I wouldn't know.

However, without reports from personal messages; problematic users could maliciously or send unsolicited personal messages which could potentially harm other users.

[SatoPrincess]

I don't think members have ever taught about this before which I why I decided to raise this thread.
 Although I recognize that the intention behind granting this access might be to counter spam and fraudulent behavior, I personally find the idea of reading other people's private messages invasive. PMs are meant to be personal, and it's troubling to think that anyone apart from the intended recipients or sender can access them.

It’s common knowledge and I’m surprised this is new to you. At the bottom of the message box, you will see this important note.

“Note: PM privacy is not guaranteed. Encrypt sensitive messages.”

I don’t see a problem with the admin having access to pms, if you are not comfortable you can always take your sensitive conversations elsewhere. Telegram has a in built feature that supports encrypted messages

[Fiatless]

theymos has complete access to all databases and software code used by the forum, so you can never assume that your PMs are private, even if he claims he will never read them. Taking this into account, you should never discuss sensitive information through your PMs. Use a proper encrypted solution for that.

The privacy section of the forum also encourage encrypting sensitive PM, which means these personal messages can be accessed.

Always encrypt sensitive PMs. Note also that PMs are often emailed in cleartext to the recipients by bitcointalk.org
https://bitcointalk.org/privacy.php

The warning is clear, "If you don't want anybody to know about what you want to communicate, don't use the forum". Any confidential matter should be handled in more secured or private channels outside the forum

[Sandra_hakeem]

What informations do you really have to convey through PM's that doesn't warranty the admin's solicitude?? BTC deals that the forum doesn't have? Ponzis that nobody has never heard of?? Sexuality and sensitivity?? Except these PM's are really concrete for encryptions, but then i see nothing wrong with that.
Theymos won't make users anonymity so discreet that he ain't got no details about it... afterall he controls the site itself...

Sandra 🧑‍🦰

[Stalker22]

~
I understand the need for this discussion and hope to hear from moderators or individuals who can shed light on this matter.

What is there to discuss, really? No type of plain-text communication is actually created with privacy as a priority. Even if it were somehow technically impossible for the forum administrators to access private messages, there would still be a range of potential man-in-the-middle scenarios to worry about. Your local network administrator can intercept communication, as can your ISP, your VPN provider, CloudFlare, hosting provider, server administrators, ... Have you ever wondered who might be monitoring your email communication?

If privacy matters to you, take the time to understand how to effectively encrypt your sensitive communications.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

theymos has complete access to all databases and software code used by the forum, so you can never assume that your PMs are private, even if he claims he will never read them. Taking this into account, you should never discuss sensitive information through your PMs. Use a proper encrypted solution for that.

I second this (although I don't have direct knowledge of the first claim, that Theymos has access to everything; you should just assume it to be true for security's sake).  But even though I think sensitive communications ought to be done off-site, I don't think there's ever been trouble as far as Theymos's end is concerned, i.e., I've never heard that he's released anyone's PMs to anyone else.  Not that he couldn't or wouldn't still do so, but he's always struck me as the type of person who respects others' privacy.

In the end....just don't trust anyone here more than you have to, even with PMs.

[dzungmobile]

If you use a platform, you have to worry about your privacy. If you want to have privacy, protect it, you must do all things good at beginning, like Satoshi Nakamoto. If you began badly, your privacy was broken, you can not fix your practice and get your privacy back 100%.

Because someone can dig into the past, available database, archives, to find information about you.

• https://bitcointalk.org/privacy.php
• Retention / privacy info. It is a latest change of privacy and it was made in 2019.

[Solosanz]

I'm just thinking like how high the privacy level you want to achieve?

A real private person will try as much as he can to avoid leaving his trace, however I've dig your post history and found you're posting in your local board. You could argue I only know your country, but at least I have a clue. As long as you're not a drug seller, scammer or related with illegal thing, you're fine.

After that, on a forum (or any other form of communication on internet), if you don't trust the admin, don't use the forum or don't send a PM.

Your answer are correct but I'd say he can use Privnote so it will not make the administrators can read his PM including someone who's compromise his account.

[Yamane_Keto]

AFAIK, Both theymos and cyrus can read your messages at any time they want, and each of Mr. big, hilariousandco, mprep can read them when you report it to them, so if you want to send sensitive or personal data, it is better to avoid sending using PM, and if you want to communicate with someone Encrypting the message using PGP will be fine if you do not want a third party to view it.

[lovesmayfamilis]

If a person is fighting for their privacy, it would be very naive to send a PM to someone and hope that their messages will be protected. What data can we get in the PM and worry about? Only personal data. Therefore, do not send them to the forum; there are many instant messengers where you can communicate confidentially. I know that the administrator sees all our IP addresses. And if he has access to such information, then why not have access to everything else? As mentioned above, do not write a PM if you do not trust anyone. After all, your opponent can be hacked, and all PMs sent will be available to the hacker, and the moderators will not be able to prevent him from reading them.

[Findingnemo]

I don't think members have ever taught about this before which I why I decided to raise this thread.

If you ever gave attention to your screen then you may not have such thoughts in the first place.

Although I recognize that the intention behind granting this access might be to counter spam and fraudulent behavior, I personally find the idea of reading other people's private messages invasive. PMs are meant to be personal, and it's troubling to think that anyone apart from the intended recipients or sender can access them.

The same goes on every platform you are using on a daily basis for example your social media messages are completely private?

So it makes sense right, if you ever want to send any sensitive information over an internet platform then encrypt it.

[ABCbits]

I'm surprised nobody mention CloudFlare so far, which is used by this forum. CloudFlare decrypt internet connection between you and Bitcointalk server for various reason (primarily for DDoS protection) which mean theoretically they could log and analyze data transmitted between you and Bitcointalk server.

Telegram has a in built feature that supports encrypted messages

Take note default chat isn't encrypted, you'll need to use "secret chat" feature to obtain end-to-end encryption. Or even consider Signal which always use encryption and backed by more transparent company.

[Lucius]

Everything is more or less well explained in previous posts, and those who didn't know it by now may have learned the difference between personal and private.

However, it should be noted that there is someone else who can technically read your personal messages, and this is the BPIP extension. If you use it, pay attention to the following :

We don't log your IP address when the extension contacts our server but if you don't trust us you should use Tor or VPN. The extension can technically read any data from your BitcoinTalk session, including your PMs, but it doesn't do so. It collects user IDs from the page you're looking at - e.g. a list of posts in a thread - and sends that list of IDs to bpip.org to get info about those users, and only does so if you turn the optional features on (these features are off by default).

The extension works even if you browse BitcoinTalk.org without being logged in. The source code is not obfuscated and can be examined by anyone with sufficient JavaScript knowledge using developer tools built into most browsers. Same tools can also be used to check network traffic to/from the extension.