vave.com - is a scammers & nationalists

[FatFork]

And the funny thing is that the site supports 19 different languages, respectively, the section "Terms and Conditions" is translated into all available 19 languages. And Clause 2.1. in "Terms and Conditions", where it says about the ban on players from Russia is only on the English version of the site. No other language has this item

Just because the Terms and conditions aren't posted in your language that doesn't mean that you are free to break them.
I also live in a country, where English isn't the main language, but I don't expect all the websites in the world to post their Terms of Service in my language.

Did you take a look at the website? They did publish the Terms in his language (Russian), but conveniently left out the clause that restricts sports betting for players from Russia. What's more, the OP claims that they added the restriction after he had already used the sportsbook, which means, from a legal perspective, he has every right to complain.

Vave.com cannot be racist, because race doesn't matter here. I assume that your are white(like most Russians) and the owners of vave.com are also white.

LOL! You do understand that racism is not only about the color of your skin? 

Racism is discrimination and prejudice towards people based on their race or ethnicity.

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[Odusko]

If verification is required, it should be completed before depositing. And after submitting your kyc documents they sent you $3000 but they kept another $15000. From here it is clear that their only intention is not to let you withdraw your assets. Better avoid this shit casino.

The casino is making attempts to withhold the ops money and irrespective pf what their call it as a practice,  KYC verification should have been the highest level of that requirement so at that point where ops passed the KYC and were allowed to withdraw $3,000 he should have been allowed to withdraw the total amount instead of the casino still holding back 15,000 of the remaining balance.

But then also this is what has always been evident with the shiny casinos we have around, they accept any amount of deposits but when it comes to withdrawal, they will set various rules and regulations.

[acroman08]

@OP have you asked them when they added that rules? because if they added that months after the war between Ukraine and Russia, I would have assumed at this points that they would have a translated version of that rules in Russian and other languages.

would you mind posting screenshots of your conversation with their support. also, I'd suggest to refrain from spamming the same thing on their ANN thread, you could get banned from doing it.

really strange case here

but ím wondering how OP were able to get such high amount, i got limited after winning 800 Dollar

not everyone gets limited after winning several hundred dollars.

[Gozie51]

2. They have a restriction, but not stand with their word (If they really care about it, they should block your IP + ask KYC first before make any deposit.

This is one of the shity tactic casino.

I was to say this also. I read their Terms and conditions

2.1.      Any kind of sports betting or live betting for players from Russia is strictly prohibited. We reserve the right to confiscate funds and block an account if it is proven that sports betting was made by a Russian citizen.

2.2.      Should any of these rules be violated, the Company reserves the right to refuse to pay any winnings or to refund stakes, as well as to cancel any bets. The Company shall not be liable in relation to the moment when they become aware that the customer falls within any of the aforementioned categories. This means that the Company shall be entitled to take the above measures at any time once they have become aware that the customer is an individual who can be designated as above.

Depending on when these clauses were added to their rules like you claimed they were not there at the time you registered, they should have made effort to identify your IP or restricted Russian IP from registering on their website to safe everyone the headache.

My question is did you evade any registration process or using VPN? If you are not guilty of violating registration procedure then they should be able to identify you were registering from Russia.

[CryptSafe]

Sometimes some cases I read here sounds very funny tough. Casinos too can be this funny too. For such a long time a client been playing and on negative and they kept silent over it and did not stop the loss. OP made deposit and they did not ask OP for KYC to verify OPs identity but when OP started to win and beginning to make withdrawal there comes the  KYC policies and terms of services. I wonder when all these bruhaha with casinos would stop. Why not state you terms and conditions of service and engagement clear for prospective members to see while doings things with shady intentions to hold perceived members down to ransom. Its not fair though and the spate at which such issues is coming forte is not good.

OP your complaint is some worth sincere but it would require you to go the extra miles in uploading a proof for members to see because just this is not enough to convince members to believe you are saying the real thing as it happened.

[Cadaver20]

If verification is required, it should be completed before depositing. And after submitting your kyc documents they sent you $3000 but they kept another $15000. From here it is clear that their only intention is not to let you withdraw your assets. Better avoid this shit casino.

The casino is making attempts to withhold the ops money and irrespective pf what their call it as a practice,  KYC verification should have been the highest level of that requirement so at that point where ops passed the KYC and were allowed to withdraw $3,000 he should have been allowed to withdraw the total amount instead of the casino still holding back 15,000 of the remaining balance.

But then also this is what has always been evident with the shiny casinos we have around, they accept any amount of deposits but when it comes to withdrawal, they will set various rules and regulations.

Here I see that all the efforts of this casino are just to not allow OP to withdraw his winning money. That is, they just want to deposit your money, lose your money and don't think to withdraw your money.

[light_warrior]

This is some kind of spammer. Spammed the entire casino topic with his identical posts. Wrote there in a row as many as 7 identical posts. And plus there casino representative has already responded to him. And this spammer was on the forum today, but did not comment. And most importantly, the casino representative referred to the Russian language page of the casino rules, which clearly states that quote "In the event of there being a discrepancy between the English language version of these rules and any other language version, the English language version will prevail".

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5433885.msg62741338#msg62741338

[Alphie12]

This is some kind of spammer. Spammed the entire casino topic with his identical posts. Wrote there in a row as many as 7 identical posts. And plus there casino representative has already responded to him. And this spammer was on the forum today, but did not comment. And most importantly, the casino representative referred to the Russian language page of the casino rules, which clearly states that quote "In the event of there being a discrepancy between the English language version of these rules and any other language version, the English language version will prevail".

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5433885.msg62741338#msg62741338

OP was tricked with two sets of rules but the spamming makes it tough to side with him.

[Bushdark]

Sometimes some cases I read here sounds very funny tough. Casinos too can be this funny too. For such a long time a client been playing and on negative and they kept silent over it and did not stop the loss. OP made deposit and they did not ask OP for KYC to verify OPs identity but when OP started to win and beginning to make withdrawal there comes the  KYC policies and terms of services. I wonder when all these bruhaha with casinos would stop. Why not state you terms and conditions of service and engagement clear for prospective members to see while doings things with shady intentions to hold perceived members down to ransom. Its not fair though and the spate at which such issues is coming forte is not good.

OP your complaint is some worth sincere but it would require you to go the extra miles in uploading a proof for members to see because just this is not enough to convince members to believe you are saying the real thing as it happened.

The power that casinos have is when they have your money in there possession. This is a pretty understandable situation because I still don't imagine why they is a ban when you are from Russia using there English version while the native version has no restriction.
Is there something we are not getting right? There is more explanation to what op had explained because I don't know why a casino will be racist on just one country.

[Webetcoins]

Creating a scam assumption would be better.

IMO, it's clear that they're targeting you to avoid the money is being withdrawn from their site:
1. They have rules not being completed same from all-different language
2. They have a restriction, but not stand with their word (If they really care about it, they should block your IP + ask KYC first before make any deposit.

This is one of the shity tactic casino.

Well, we can't really call this a scam since they didn't run away with the money or banned him without saying anything and they were even allowing him to make withdrawals as long as his account was negative because he had made higher deposits, but right after he got an upper hand and wanted to withdraw some profit, they refused to pay and they thought of an excuse where they would say that people from his country are not allowed to bet on sports.

I know this is totally wrong because as you said, if this rule was there from the beginning, they should have banned him right after he created his account and tried making his first deposit because his IP address was not hidden and they even allowed him to make withdrawals earlier. Maybe if creating a scam accusation can help him in some way, he should go for it with all the evidence.

[uneng]

This is some kind of spammer. Spammed the entire casino topic with his identical posts. Wrote there in a row as many as 7 identical posts. And plus there casino representative has already responded to him. And this spammer was on the forum today, but did not comment. And most importantly, the casino representative referred to the Russian language page of the casino rules, which clearly states that quote "In the event of there being a discrepancy between the English language version of these rules and any other language version, the English language version will prevail".

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5433885.msg62741338#msg62741338

OP was tricked with two sets of rules but the spamming makes it tough to side with him.

It doesn't change the fact the casino's rules are dubious and confusing. It's not the duty of the customer to investigate every translations of the set of rules minuciously trying to find discrepancies between them when signing up at an online platform.

The casino even gave him 3000$ back as goodwill gesture, so why not to give him his 18,000$ and ban his account after that? Then I would believe that is a goodwill gesture, because the way it was done was simply a cunning gesture.

A ban against russians for the reason we know very well which one it is should be explicitly stated on the website, including the signing up screen.

[Hispo]

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OP was tricked with two sets of rules but the spamming makes it tough to side with him.

A ban against russians for the reason we know very well which one it is should be explicitly stated on the website, including the signing up screen.

I agree on that. It could easily avoid a lot of people to go through the tiring process of asking for their money and not even mentioning the waiting times before receiving a refund.    But I guess they know if they do that there is a chance they could lose volume and money; the volume on any online casino is life the blood which keeps it alive after all.

Also, unlike OP, I would not call this a racist measure taken by a casino; this falls more properly within the category of indirect deception against all gamblers which do not know how to read English well enough. It is nothing personal against the people of Russian but rather lack of attention to distribution of information for the sake of gains.

Anyways, hopefully this bad experience won't even repeat again to you, OP. 

[solsolsols]

Do I understand correctly that you only won $1.5k from their bookie but they still confiscated $15k? If so, that's thieft 

I tried to find when they changed the TOS with no luck but my Russian friend successfully verified his account no more than a week ago and withdrew all his winnings, so it must be a very recent change. He also told me that Sportsbook is no longer available to him, so it's not really clear how you violate their TOS if they just disabled Sportsbook for any Russian player right after the TOS change.

Personally, I had a similar case when the casino put my country on the list of banned countries and retroactively canceled my winnings, but after complaining to the licensor, they obliged to pay out every penny.

[decodx]

I've already asked about this in their ANN thread. The key question here is when exactly they introduced the restriction for Russian citizens in their Terms of Service. Also, I'm curious why Russia isn't listed among the other restricted countries, especially if it's supposedly a requirement from their licensee, as they claim.

If this is a recent inclusion in their terms, which seems likely considering they haven't updated the other languages, then they have no right to confiscate the player's funds. In that case, the player's winnings are valid and should be rightfully upheld.

[Casdinyard]

Are you geoblocked and have to use a VPN to get in? If you are goeblocked then it's your fault. If not you are getting scammed.

you might wanna read upon his post further. He literally said that he once was able to withdraw money form vave.com until he tried one day to do so and was disallowed, he got hit with a new change in their terms agreement that specifically bars russians from playing in their site. Such a change was weird and so they contacted him, under which they compensated the guy for the trouble with some extra as well. This is clear admission of guilt and a massive misplay on vave's part. Not in any way whatsoever the gambler's fault. He's borderline scammed if not for the fact that they paid him back his winnings and extra bonus for the trouble. which reinforces the fact that these gambling sites and casinos should always inform their players of changes like these.

[wxa7115]

Perhaps, they have added the clause 2.1 recently.

It could be but there’s no way to verify if they recently added it or it has been like that and the Op didn’t see it.

I tried to check if the site was archived before anything was altered but web archive is not working on my end prolly due to my network. Another thing again, I’m sure that during the time Op started playing at the site his Ip must have been that of Russia why didn’t the site block his account then to prevent usage of their site why wait until Op had that amount before requesting for kyc? It seems like a shady business tbh.

It is possible the cached version of the casino exists somewhere on the Internet and in that case we could verify when that clause was added, if it was there before the third withdrawal of the OP then as bad as this looks the casino will be on the right, especially with that clause which states the English version of the terms of service supersede the rest.

However if this was a recent addition to their terms and it appeared after the third withdrawal attempt by the OP, then they are on the right and this is just an attempt to scam a player using a cheap excuse.

[bettercrypto]

According to what I understood from your story, it's very clear that they don't want to give you what you won; that's the only reason I saw why they did that. Maybe that's just a thank you, no matter how you got out what you deposited somehow.

It seems that those kinds of casinos are very hard to trust, and I found that the casino platform did something wrong, to be honest. Maybe that's good; at least you saw the motive and intention of the gambling platform.

[noormcs5]

It seems that those kinds of casinos are very hard to trust, and I found that the casino platform did something wrong, to be honest. Maybe that's good; at least you saw the motive and intention of the gambling platform.

I do not know why people trust these casinos and they do not do homework to find out about the credibility of the casino before actually depositing and playing at the casino.

A simple search about vave.com at scam adviser. and you can well understand that it is not safe to play at this casino. I guess we need to understand that we should research thoroughly about the casino before putting our money in the casino.

[h4nnmann11]

And the funny thing is that the site supports 19 different languages, respectively, the section "Terms and Conditions" is translated into all available 19 languages. And Clause 2.1. in "Terms and Conditions", where it says about the ban on players from Russia is only on the English version of the site. No other language has this item.

You are right on this point. The clause 2.1 isn't available in the other version of the terms, except English. There are 11 clauses under the "(2) General Terms" in English version, where there are 10 clauses in other language version. Perhaps, they have added the clause 2.1 recently.

BTW, do you still have access to your account? You should share some evidence here to make your claim valid. Screenshot of the deposit and withdrawal history, screenshot of the conversations with their support agent.

yes, i have access to my account. In their rules it is written that they block players from Russia, but I am forbidden to place sports bets, but the account is not blocked.
ye i have a screenshots
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1iEs4BtjrVENlTpUIA1rCBLE8W4jwD1iQ?usp=drive_link

[h4nnmann11]

@OP have you asked them when they added that rules? because if they added that months after the war between Ukraine and Russia, I would have assumed at this points that they would have a translated version of that rules in Russian and other languages.

would you mind posting screenshots of your conversation with their support. also, I'd suggest to refrain from spamming the same thing on their ANN thread, you could get banned from doing it.

really strange case here

but ím wondering how OP were able to get such high amount, i got limited after winning 800 Dollar

not everyone gets limited after winning several hundred dollars.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1iEs4BtjrVENlTpUIA1rCBLE8W4jwD1iQ?usp=drive_link
there is a screenshots