BRICS has become eleven countries instead of five.

[WillyAp]

2. Other BRICS countries do not want the dollar ? They want dollars ! But some "offended" countries are not given dollars ! And all these fake "claims" about "dedolarization" are their hysteria. Russia VERY much needs dollars. But it fell for some fairy tales of China and India, and now it sells 90%+ of its oil for rupees and yuans, which all the storages are full of,

Most currencies flow electronically nowadays. Do you believe that Inda flies 25 Jumbo Cargo planes (full with Rubles) to Russia?
My assumptions are that in 10 years nothing happened, except publicity to fire up an anty dollar hype.

All countries wish to have a stable currency that is correct. Creating one there is an example.
The dollar is official currenca in several countries the Euro is not. Then there is the CRA the French Tool.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFA_franc  

a rather nasty invention from 1945. From there we go to the ECO.
 

[DrBeer]

2. Other BRICS countries do not want the dollar ? They want dollars ! But some "offended" countries are not given dollars ! And all these fake "claims" about "dedolarization" are their hysteria. Russia VERY much needs dollars. But it fell for some fairy tales of China and India, and now it sells 90%+ of its oil for rupees and yuans, which all the storages are full of,

Most currencies flow electronically nowadays. Do you believe that Inda flies 25 Jumbo Cargo planes (full with Rubles) to Russia?
My assumptions are that in 10 years nothing happened, except publicity to fire up an anty dollar hype.

All countries wish to have a stable currency that is correct. Creating one there is an example.
The dollar is official currenca in several countries the Euro is not. Then there is the CRA the French Tool.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CFA_franc  

a rather nasty invention from 1945. From there we go to the ECO.

About "mountains of rupees and yuan" - this is of course an "artistic image", nothing more. I am well aware that cash settlements in such transactions do not take place. Cash settlements on a large scale are the domain of black marketeers, arms dealers, drug dealers, etc.
Back to the story - the accounts are "clogged" with lying "dead weight" of rupees and yuan. And what is interesting - including correspondent accounts of Russian companies.... in Indian and Chinese banks ! Mostly Russian funds ()for oil sales are blocked in India. They even squeal about it in official Russian channels. By the way, they have now started to search very actively "who will be guilty for the idea of selling oil for rupees and yuan"

[WillyAp]

Back to the story - the accounts are "clogged" with lying "dead weight" of rupees and yuan

Yes, and they had 10 Years to figure out an exchange rate/plan making both parties happy.
It did not happen, most likely the policymakers did not even set a developing team to it. Or agreed to a developing team from both countries. Thus my conclusion that it is just a political idea with no practical uses.

[pooya87]

~
I found some news from my local newspapers and what I got from the article was the meeting between prime minister Modi and president Biden. The two sides only discussed mainly technology cooperation, education... and affirmed the close, long-term cooperative relationship between the two countries. I don't see any news like DrBear mentioned. And as I know, whether there is war or competition, countries still have cooperative relationships in different fields. Like Russia and some EU countries are still doing business in the LPG gas market even though they are each other's main enemies on the battlefield in Ukraine. Furthermore, India and the US have always had a good relationship for many years but that did not prevent India from joining the BRICS bloc. In short, I didn't see any news like what he mentioned.

Let me add a little on top of this with some different views.
Ignoring the fact that the bear is trolling, I should say that people should avoid seeing the world in black and white. For example China bag-holding US dollar doesn't mean everything between the two is all dandy and nobody wants to get rid of the dollar just as China dumping the dollar and the US bonds doesn't mean China wants to annihilate US entirely and overnight. Same with other countries.

It is the World Order changing and in the chaos during the transition to the New World Order each country will strive to get a bigger piece of the cake. That sometimes means relations and cooperations with all sides.

In the past 80-ish years the World Order has changed 3 times!
1) First one was after the second European War aka WW2, where US gained power and the Bipolar world shaped between US and USSR, during that transition we had the same situation where countries were playing for one side or the other which later on led to different face offs one of which was between Communism and Capitalism.
2) The second time was when USSR fell apart and for the first time in history the world was Unipolar and during that transition we had the same situation where countries strove for power. In fact that is how China gained a lot of its powers. They were playing both sides of the cold war and in the end they leaned towards US but not for free. They milked US for as much benefits they could and had the economic expansion we see today. A couple of countries even became nuclear in that time.
3) This is exactly what's happening now. After about 30 years the World Order is changing as US loses its power, but this time things are going back to being Multipolar, just like it were for thousands of years. During this transition time different countries will seek as much benefit they can from other "powers".

- This is why we see India is both in BRICS strengthening the biggest threat to the dollar and at the same time shaking hands with US stricking different deals and making statements like "they don't want to weaken the dollar". LOL
- This is why China is tightening its grip on US neck while still having the largest exports to US.
- This is why Iran is bombing US bases while negotiating with US and releasing US spies for $10 billion.
- This is why Japan is moving towards building nukes while still being an occupied country where US hasn't been allowing them to even have a decent military.
- And of course this is also why we see countries like France desperately trying to get out of US shadow and play a similar game and failing.
- etc.

After the transitional phase as the World Order is solidified, each country will have its fixed place in the geopolitical game. Some will have more power than the others. Some borders will change. Some countries (specially microscopic ones) may cease to exist while new countries may have formed.
The only constant now is change and its unpredictability... So don't be surprised when you see countries playing both sides or even if you saw them switch sides in the coming years...

[WillyAp]

3) This is exactly what's happening now. After about 30 years the World Order is changing as US loses its power, but this time things are going back to being Multipolar, just like it were for thousands of years. During this transition time different countries will seek as much benefit they can from other "powers".

11 Countries go sideways and wish to use their own currency is not the same as the US loosing its grip on the econnomical flow or their power. Trades of all other nations is still in US$. The reason The US won't embrace crypto is the lack of control crypto holds. Much of the US's power comes from its bases worldwide. None has closed, new ones have opened.   

[Tony116]

-snip

-snip
The only constant now is change and its unpredictability... So don't be surprised when you see countries playing both sides or even if you saw them switch sides in the coming years...

Great explanation, thank you for giving me some more knowledge of the history and a better understanding of what's going on.

@DrBear, I think this knowledge is better for you, you should put down your ego and look at the problem more realistically. Don't let the hatred inside you take over your entire mind and no longer be able to distinguish between right and wrong. As I mentioned to you in another topic, I understand how you feel when your country is at war because my country was also invaded by the US and even used Agent Orange/dioxin to destroy our clan.

Within 10 years, the US military has carried out nearly 20,000 missions, spraying about 80 million liters of toxic chemicals into my country. How can you understand that feeling?

[pooya87]

11 Countries go sideways and wish to use their own currency is not the same as the US loosing its grip on the econnomical flow or their power. Trades of all other nations is still in US$.

The global usage of USD in international trades has been going down for many years now and it is speeding up in the past 2 years. The less dollar is used by countries the less power US will have.

The reason The US won't embrace crypto is the lack of control crypto holds.

I don't know what that has to do with anything!

Much of the US's power comes from its bases worldwide. None has closed, new ones have opened.   

The biggest US power is the dollar not the military, specially since US military strength is mostly an illusion.

As for US military bases, the thing is United States is a cancer and the military bases are like tumors, each time a tumor is removed the cancer can metastasize in another part of the earth. In other words it depends on where you look. For instance in East Asia, US presence has been increasing but in West Asia, US has been getting kicked out.

The best example is Afghanistan which is literally the biggest escape of the century. US military fled Afghanistan which is one of the most strategically important geographies in the world that gave US the power to destabilize the entire region and threaten the international trade by spreading extremism, terrorism and separatism. It affected 3 super powers at the same time: Iran, China and Russia. Today, apart from some operatives and terrorists, US has no military presence in Afghanistan.
Similar things have been happening elsewhere like Iraq were US bases have been getting shut down ever since 2020 like the ones in Al-Anbar province.

[DrBeer]

Great explanation, thank you for giving me some more knowledge of the history and a better understanding of what's going on.

@DrBear, I think this knowledge is better for you, you should put down your ego and look at the problem more realistically. Don't let the hatred inside you take over your entire mind and no longer be able to distinguish between right and wrong. As I mentioned to you in another topic, I understand how you feel when your country is at war because my country was also invaded by the US and even used Agent Orange/dioxin to destroy our clan.

Within 10 years, the US military has carried out nearly 20,000 missions, spraying about 80 million liters of toxic chemicals into my country. How can you understand that feeling?

So you think that by denying Russia's crimes, or not recognizing Russia's crimes, you are taking revenge on the US for what they did in your country ? Why do you deny it? Because you're trying to pass off a direct terrorist attack by the terrorist country russia as something to blame.... THE U.S. )
I have the feeling that you live in the USSR, where everything we did was exclusively positive, but if something went wrong or we failed, it was all the fault of the insidious USA".
The problem is that by allowing and facilitating lies and covering up real crimes, you become just as much an accomplice to the criminals... Unpleasant but true.
Or let's put it this way - I believe that everything you described is not the USA's fault, the USSR and the Kremlin provoked them, and in general the USSR set it all up. Do you like this position? 

But I will return to the topic of BRICS:
I don't know if everyone is following the world situation or just thinking of something else to blame the US for, but at this time India made a very strong move. The G20/21 summit showed a very interesting event in the recent history of international politics: it looks like there will be a new leader in the Asia/Pacific region, and his name is India !
India lately has been making a lot of moves aimed at :
- Reducing interactions with toxic regimes aimed at degradation.
- increase interaction with the civilized world, and choose the Western vector in politics, economy and development.

The unification of BRICS and the African Union, under the creative management of India, will allow to gather countries really willing to create an alliance for creation and development and not "alliances against the entire civilized world" that China, Russia and their "hand dogs" are trying to build.

[EarnOnVictor]

-snip

-snip
The only constant now is change and its unpredictability... So don't be surprised when you see countries playing both sides or even if you saw them switch sides in the coming years...

Great explanation, thank you for giving me some more knowledge of the history and a better understanding of what's going on.

@DrBear, I think this knowledge is better for you, you should put down your ego and look at the problem more realistically. Don't let the hatred inside you take over your entire mind and no longer be able to distinguish between right and wrong. As I mentioned to you in another topic, I understand how you feel when your country is at war because my country was also invaded by the US and even used Agent Orange/dioxin to destroy our clan.

Within 10 years, the US military has carried out nearly 20,000 missions, spraying about 80 million liters of toxic chemicals into my country. How can you understand that feeling?,

I'm with you on the fact that we should not let how we feel cloud our judgments, lest we make a fool of ourselves. With what you guys have discussed so far, I must say that I agree with some and disagree with others. This is even as some points written are lies and far away from the truth. However, without getting too much in pointing out these errors one by one to avoid voluminosity, it's important to note that any country, organization, society, and even family members could form whatever group they want to form, they are entirely free. But this doesn't mean it's a threat to the US or the USD.

This is politics and you know your true allies all by yourself, we should not make it look beyond what it is. BRICS is a welcome development and it's one of the anti-US leadership attempts which is not bad on its own. But wait a minute, do you think they are that powerful or will be? I don't think so. Even some of the countries now in BRICS are also in many of the US-led groups as well, so what's is the big deal?

If they are doing both, they are the only ones who could truly tell you what their real allies are, not about a mere assembly of countries to discuss the obvious. Countries like China and Russia have always wanted both political and economic dominance, but the question is, do they have what it takes? Those two countries are too selfish to be the world leader, what they are trying to do now is just like the Greek's gift due to their desperation. If they truly get what they want, the world will then see the other side of them.

Besides, those who still want the US to fail should try to rethink and have a forgiving spirit. As I will always say, the somewhat peaceful we still enjoy today is partly attributed to their leadership. China and Russia will fail you. It's time to let go of what has helped in the past (war, slavery, cheating and all that). This present generation knows little or nothing about it, so why can't we forgive and let go for the sake of peace? The view that the US and the USD must fall by most people could be a regret if it really happens. I wonder what they tend to achieve in that.

[Woodie]

BRICS inclusion of some of these oil rich Arab nations will put pressure on the West and non Brics nations in terms of energy and the economy..and not forgetting one of the major agendas of ending the dollar dominance which has long been threatened as this is turning to be a real tale!!
At this point, I believe even the sanctions put on Russia aren't felt as it's BRICS allies will be at the aid of these guys to trade in whatever commodities they need and it will be business as usual...and seeing what's happening with Oil around the world, tbh BRICS is definitely winning this one and there is no stopping them taking into consideration the 46% of the world's population Influence!!

The best the West can do is go back to the table and draw up new treaties with these guys to make the survival of other nations possible as its not going to negatively affect the USA alone!

[WillyAp]

I don't know what that has to do with anything!
and:
The biggest US power is the dollar not the military, specially since US military strength is mostly an illusion.

Well I think you have sided with an anti US speech. Many here do, some understandingly others we have to guess.
It's the other way round. The US gains next to nothing with the trade Dollar, their bases create the pressure, aka power.
The usage of the US$ over banks is done with SWIFT, SWIFT gives the US the right to accuse anyone using it of money laundering or else.  A crypto solution would give away that edge.

[DrBeer]

I don't know what that has to do with anything!
and:
The biggest US power is the dollar not the military, specially since US military strength is mostly an illusion.

Well I think you have sided with an anti US speech. Many here do, some understandingly others we have to guess.
It's the other way round. The US gains next to nothing with the trade Dollar, their bases create the pressure, aka power.
The usage of the US$ over banks is done with SWIFT, SWIFT gives the US the right to accuse anyone using it of money laundering or else.  A crypto solution would give away that edge.

Please describe - how do you think cryptocurrencies, for example within BRICS, will fix the situation ? And how will the interaction between the members of this union look like? In connection, of course, with the real economy of these countries, and mutual trade within BRICS, as well as with the "external" world economy, which continues to use the dollar as a currency of international settlements ?

[WillyAp]

Please describe - how do you think cryptocurrencies, for example within BRICS, will fix the situation ?

Sure why not:
If a country sends Ripple's currency or token it won't go over SWIFT. So no trace for the US Government.
Specially countries which are sanctioned are interested in getting around those. Russia for once, Iran for the other.
Some enmity holds solid grounds while others not so much. In most cases some acts of war had an underlying reason. Especially in the past when capitalism was declared the enemy of communism.  

The modern USA is not the same as the USA of 1950. Funnily enough most enemies of the US hold their grudges from deeds in the past. Like the Venezuela Ambassador or foreign minister which cited 1850 as a reason. Venezuela has forgotten that the very USA is responsible for having Bolivar state, A federal country in the Venezuelan state. The intervention of the US made the British retreat to its actual borders, still more than they were allowed to have. 

[DrBeer]

Please describe - how do you think cryptocurrencies, for example within BRICS, will fix the situation ?

Sure why not:
If a country sends Ripple's currency or token it won't go over SWIFT. So no trace for the US Government.
Specially countries which are sanctioned are interested in getting around those. Russia for once, Iran for the other.
Some enmity holds solid grounds while others not so much. In most cases some acts of war had an underlying reason. Especially in the past when capitalism was declared the enemy of communism.  

The modern USA is not the same as the USA of 1950. Funnily enough most enemies of the US hold their grudges from deeds in the past. Like the Venezuela Ambassador or foreign minister which cited 1850 as a reason. Venezuela has forgotten that the very USA is responsible for having Bolivar state, A federal country in the Venezuelan state. The intervention of the US made the British retreat to its actual borders, still more than they were allowed to have. 

No, that's not what I mean I know how transactions are sent. I didn't just say ECONOMICS. Economics is not just transactions. A simple example. For example in some country A, which is a member of the BBBB alliance, there is a nuclear power plant (just for example). In the BBBB union, among all its members, there is no country extracting or processing toll raw materials to produce fuel for the nuclear plant. But the BBBB union decided to break the financial system, and abandoned the piastres, for which all other non-BBBB countries trade, and adopted Ripple. Question - how can a BBBB country that has abandoned piastres buy something that is only traded for piastres ?  And they have no sources of piastres from foreign trade (exports only within BBBB) This is a highly simplified model, but the point is hopefully clear.

[WillyAp]

A simple example. For example in some country A, which is a member of the BBBB alliance, there is a nuclear power plant (just for example). In the BBBB union, among all its members, there is no country extracting or processing toll raw materials to produce fuel for the nuclear plant. But the BBBB union decided to break the financial system, and abandoned the piastres, for which all other non-BBBB countries trade, and adopted Ripple. Question - how can a BBBB country that has abandoned piastres buy something that is only traded for piastres ?  And they have no sources of piastres from foreign trade (exports only within BBBB) This is a highly simplified model, but the point is hopefully clear.

Indeed christal clear.
As all Ripple Transactions are not running under the radar, meaning not visible for the US, they can do as they plan and it'll not be out in the open. For visible observation there are satellites. But visibility does not say people have accurate, physical input, a reason why governments are suspicious. Government have human traits, they are envious as we are ie.
 
IRAN is doing it successfully although they don't use ripple, being an US company they most probably made up something else.

To clarify, I'm not from the US, nor a citizen living in the US. 

[Sithara007]

Out of the 11 countries in BRICS, I would say that two members are having a lot of bargaining power at the moment - India and Saudi Arabia. Both these nations are considered valuable by the BRICS bloc, and at the same time during the ongoing G20 summit also both these nations were pampered by the other members. On the other hand, Russia and China seems to be losing their dominance. Recently Italy decided to pull out from the Belt and Road Initiative. Brazil and South Africa were never influential enough to start with. Right now, BRICS looks very imbalanced.

[pooya87]

A crypto solution would give away that edge.

If a country sends Ripple's currency or token it won't go over SWIFT.

This involves a bunch of problems. The most notable ones are volatility and control.
If anything decentralized like bitcoin or centralized like XRP or any other altcoin is used, all trades will be affected by their volatile price that stems from their small markets that can be manipulated (even more for altcoins).
If the technology is taken and a separate new network is created (like using Ripple not XRP) then it still suffers from the shortcomings of the blockchain technology that will show itself a lot more when it is centralized. In other words there is no reason to do it when they can just create a SWIFT like system!

IRAN is doing it successfully although they don't use ripple, being an US company they most probably made up something else.

I don't know what you mean by "a US company", maybe a typo? but regarding what Iran uses, there are a bunch of things. Most notable ones are gold, mutual currencies and alternatives of SWIFT, and last but not least bitcoin specially since over the past couple of years mining has been growing in Iran.
AFAIK there are no other cryptocurrencies used for trades even the Digital Rial project is still not fully operational.

As all Ripple Transactions are not running under the radar, meaning not visible for the US, they can do as they plan and it'll not be out in the open.

To be clear the point is not to be "under the radar", the point is to remove United States control over your money so that they can no longer steal it at any time and for any reason.
In fact in this context, this movement is very similar to bitcoin. Bitcoin transactions are not "under the radar", instead they are out there for the whole world to see but no central authority can censor them. This is why bitcoin was created and is used, and similarly will be why the alternative to SWIFT will be created.

[WillyAp]

I don't know what you mean by "a US company", maybe a typo?

I don't think an US company would be involved in Case of Iran.
A state has much more money to move around and I doubt the Iran uses Bitcoin, except their own. Most likey a privacy coin.

[coupable]

A crypto solution would give away that edge.

If a country sends Ripple's currency or token it won't go over SWIFT.

This involves a bunch of problems. The most notable ones are volatility and control.
If anything decentralized like bitcoin or centralized like XRP or any other altcoin is used, all trades will be affected by their volatile price that stems from their small markets that can be manipulated (even more for altcoins).
If the technology is taken and a separate new network is created (like using Ripple not XRP) then it still suffers from the shortcomings of the blockchain technology that will show itself a lot more when it is centralized. In other words there is no reason to do it when they can just create a SWIFT like system!

I agree with you that it is not wise at all to rely on one of the existing blockchain networks in the cryptocurrency market or to create a new network. The BRICS unified currency project will not be able to avoid the principle of centralization and be able to control its uses, especially since each country has its own financial system and independent financial policy, which is difficult to fit all of them into one common framework.
I think that the most important question that must be asked when we discuss the idea of establishing a unified currency for BRICS is where will its value be derived from?
Is it permissible to rely on gold again? But most of it is in the hands of America and the West.
Is it permissible to use any other metal as a substitute for gold in this case? The producers of this metal will be very lucky, especially if they are not members of BRICS.
What is the probability of this currency's success if we provide it with a Bitcoin cover?

[pooya87]

I doubt the Iran uses Bitcoin, except their own. Most likey a privacy coin.

Well the thing about Iran's economy specially the foreign trades is that most of it is not made public. We only have a handful of official statements to work with. For example the statement by the official at the Ministry of Industry, Mine and Trade last year is the first official statement I can think of about cryotocurrencies being used to make an actual trade worth $10 million. Less than a month after that the regulations were published on using bitcoin mined in Iran for imports like importing vehicles. And the latest news I read 4-5 month ago was that the progress is slow and so far a couple of mining farms have joined and the trade size is only in tens of millions.

I think that the most important question that must be asked when we discuss the idea of establishing a unified currency for BRICS is where will its value be derived from?
Is it permissible to rely on gold again? But most of it is in the hands of America and the West.
Is it permissible to use any other metal as a substitute for gold in this case? The producers of this metal will be very lucky, especially if they are not members of BRICS.
What is the probability of this currency's success if we provide it with a Bitcoin cover?

That's the challenging part though.
But at the same time all fiat currencies in the world are like that! It is also how euro was created. Euro like the dollar is not backed by anything either and it is used in an "economic bloc" called Europe! So in a way euro is like the BRICS currency. It will be backed by its supply and demand and the economies that are behind it.

If an asset is needed to back BRICS currency they can use a basket of them instead of gold alone. That can include:
- Gold (Russia and China have the fifth and sixth largest supplies)
- Oil (Saudi Arabia + Iran + Russia = 30% and if you add their "friends" like Venezuela, Qatar, etc. it is >60%)
- Gas (Iran + Russia = almost 50% of all the gas on planet)
- Lithium (Iran started searching recently and one of the first things found was 8.5 million ton reserve + China 5.1 mil ton + if Argentina 20 mil ton and Chile 11 mil ton join BRICS that's again more than half)
- Plus some other minerals that I can't think of right now and is rich in the East

This also means that in the future BRICS has the potential to effectively dictate the price of all these resources.
Not to mention that they could effectively recreate Petrodollar concept with the new currency, meaning selling all these resources for the BRICS currency only.