Accelerated U.S. Bitcoin ETF Adoption

[zasad@]

Interesting topic:
Grayscale has filed with the SEC to convert GBTC into a spot bitcoin ETF. The SEC refused.
The main reason for the SEC refusal is high risks.
Everyone has an interesting question: Why is a futures ETF that is more risky allowed, but a spot ETF with less risk is not allowed? 🤡
Grayscale accuses the SEC of discrimination, and now the SEC will be required by court order to explain its decision
___
No final decision yet in Grayscale ETF lawsuit with the SEC
https://invezz.com/news/2023/08/18/no-final-decision-yet-in-grayscale-etf-lawsuit-with-the-sec/

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[Lucius]

~snip~
Everyone has an interesting question: Why is a futures ETF that is more risky allowed, but a spot ETF with less risk is not allowed? 🤡

I do not think that the futures BTC ETF is more risky than the spot ETF, because with the former, the risk is lower in that the fund does not contain actual BTC, that is, the fund does not buy BTC in order to issue shares in the fund based on it, which is the case with the spot ETF. The spot ETF has additional risk because it is exposed to the risk of buying and storing BTC, although the SEC probably has some other reasons for taking such a negative view.

In addition, if we go into conspiracy theories a little, then we could conclude that the SEC wants to approve the first such ETF to someone who is still much closer to the government than to any other company. From this we can draw the conclusion that the most likely candidate to receive approval is BlackRock.

[zasad@]

~snip~
Everyone has an interesting question: Why is a futures ETF that is more risky allowed, but a spot ETF with less risk is not allowed? 🤡

I do not think that the futures BTC ETF is more risky than the spot ETF, because with the former, the risk is lower in that the fund does not contain actual BTC, that is, the fund does not buy BTC in order to issue shares in the fund based on it, which is the case with the spot ETF. The spot ETF has additional risk because it is exposed to the risk of buying and storing BTC, although the SEC probably has some other reasons for taking such a negative view.

In addition, if we go into conspiracy theories a little, then we could conclude that the SEC wants to approve the first such ETF to someone who is still much closer to the government than to any other company. From this we can draw the conclusion that the most likely candidate to receive approval is BlackRock.

https://grayscale.com/products/grayscale-bitcoin-trust/
"Grayscale® Bitcoin Trust is solely and passively invested in BTC, enabling investors to gain exposure to BTC in the form of a security while avoiding the challenges of buying, storing, and safekeeping BTC, directly."


"Grayscale Bitcoin Trust’s assets are stored in offline or “cold” storage with Coinbase Custody Trust Company, LLC, as Custodian. The Custodian is a fiduciary under § 100 of the New York Banking Law and a qualified custodian for purposes of Rule 206(4)-2(d)(6) under the Investment Advisers Act of 1940, as amended."


MicroStrategy Crypto Portfolio
https://dropstab.com/p/microstrategy-crypto-portfolio-4crikwkuk4

Grayscale Investments Holdings
https://www.coinglass.com/Grayscale

Block, Inc. Crypto Portfolio
https://dropstab.com/p/block-inc-crypto-portfolio-imfabvnt7z

[tarameson]

Grayscale sought SEC approval to convert GBTC into a spot bitcoin ETF, but the SEC declined due to concerns about high risks. Despite this, the SEC has approved riskier futures ETFs, leading to confusion. Grayscale alleges discrimination by the SEC, resulting in a court order requiring the SEC to justify its decision.   TellTims

[Poker Player]

In addition, if we go into conspiracy theories a little, then we could conclude that the SEC wants to approve the first such ETF to someone who is still much closer to the government than to any other company. From this we can draw the conclusion that the most likely candidate to receive approval is BlackRock.

Given the history of the USA, and the power of certain lobbies there, I would not be surprised if this was the real reason, and the rest were ad hoc justifications.

...

I don't quite understand what you mean by this. From the part of Grayscale and GBTC I see that the structure is the same as a mutual fund, where one part is the manager, which would be Grayscale and another the depositary, in this case Coinbase Custody Trust Company. I guess you want to reaffirm with this that there is little risk.

[yhiaali3]

Exciting news indeed. I suspect the reason for the rejection is that SEC Chairman (Gary Gensler) may have been annoyed by the name Grayscale chose as the name of its GBTC, because it starts with the same initial (G)  .

Joking aside, I don't see any logical reason to say no, isn't the problem which is riskier futures ETFs or spot ETFs? The problem is that they don't want the whole industry.

It is clear from the SEC's approach through recent events that Gary has become obsessed with blocking everything related to the crypto industry, no matter what empty arguments he makes. He thinks he is building his own reputation by doing so.

[dansus021]

Good news zasad@ it looks like the Grayscale won the lawsuit against the SEC as the mentioned by Yahoo Financial here "Grayscale Investments won a lawsuit against the SEC that may allow it to convert the Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC) to an ETF, a watershed ruling that brings investors a step closer to the highly anticipated spot bitcoin exchange-traded fund." - https://finance.yahoo.com/news/grayscale-wins-lawsuit-launch-spot-211815209.html

It seems the SEC is losing the game against the crypto company but I am gonna see when this gonna stop 

[bittraffic]

Doesn't make sense why they were approving the futures market but I'm guessing the regular wouldn't try the futures market but the seasoned traders do. And them futures traders do know the risk and need no protection.

GBTC getting approved for Spot ETF might just be a good time after BTC hits the 4-year low. Nothing to squeeze from the crowd of futures traders anymore, all of them end up losing to the ones who manipulated the market.

[aoluain]

It is clear from the SEC's approach through recent events that Gary has become obsessed with blocking everything related to the crypto industry, no matter what empty arguments he makes. He thinks he is building his own reputation by doing so.

He is probably thinking that he his building a positive reputation but he stubborn stance
could prove over time to become unpopular and this ruling could mark the first step.

Doesn't make sense why they were approving the futures market but I'm guessing the regular wouldn't try the futures market but the seasoned traders do. And them futures traders do know the risk and need no protection.

GBTC getting approved for Spot ETF might just be a good time after BTC hits the 4-year low. Nothing to squeeze from the crowd of futures traders anymore, all of them end up losing to the ones who manipulated the market.

And it looks like they cannot give an explanation as to why they have not approved ETF's
while approving Futures.

[zasad@]

Good news zasad@ it looks like the Grayscale won the lawsuit against the SEC as the mentioned by Yahoo Financial here "Grayscale Investments won a lawsuit against the SEC that may allow it to convert the Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC) to an ETF, a watershed ruling that brings investors a step closer to the highly anticipated spot bitcoin exchange-traded fund." - https://finance.yahoo.com/news/grayscale-wins-lawsuit-launch-spot-211815209.html

It seems the SEC is losing the game against the crypto company but I am gonna see when this gonna stop 

hahaha, I also read this news.
Of course, the SEC is unable to adequately explain why they allow a futures ETF and prohibit a spot ETF.
If there is no appeal, the SEC will soon approve many applications, and most likely the first will be the large funds BlackRock and Fidelity.

[dansus021]

Good news zasad@ it looks like the Grayscale won the lawsuit against the SEC as the mentioned by Yahoo Financial here "Grayscale Investments won a lawsuit against the SEC that may allow it to convert the Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC) to an ETF, a watershed ruling that brings investors a step closer to the highly anticipated spot bitcoin exchange-traded fund." - https://finance.yahoo.com/news/grayscale-wins-lawsuit-launch-spot-211815209.html

It seems the SEC is losing the game against the crypto company but I am gonna see when this gonna stop 

hahaha, I also read this news.
Of course, the SEC is unable to adequately explain why they allow a futures ETF and prohibit a spot ETF.
If there is no appeal, the SEC will soon approve many applications, and most likely the first will be the large funds BlackRock and Fidelity.

the Sec loses much money and cases from XRP, Binance and Coinbase and now Grayscale 

since BlackRock and Fidelity Is one of the most biggest Fund Manager I think the approval rate would be still above 70% and SEC is approved maybe we gonna se bitcoin price move again.
also the deadline is near

[zasad@]

Good news zasad@ it looks like the Grayscale won the lawsuit against the SEC as the mentioned by Yahoo Financial here "Grayscale Investments won a lawsuit against the SEC that may allow it to convert the Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC) to an ETF, a watershed ruling that brings investors a step closer to the highly anticipated spot bitcoin exchange-traded fund." - https://finance.yahoo.com/news/grayscale-wins-lawsuit-launch-spot-211815209.html

It seems the SEC is losing the game against the crypto company but I am gonna see when this gonna stop 

hahaha, I also read this news.
Of course, the SEC is unable to adequately explain why they allow a futures ETF and prohibit a spot ETF.
If there is no appeal, the SEC will soon approve many applications, and most likely the first will be the large funds BlackRock and Fidelity.

the Sec loses much money and cases from XRP, Binance and Coinbase and now Grayscale 

since BlackRock and Fidelity Is one of the most biggest Fund Manager I think the approval rate would be still above 70% and SEC is approved maybe we gonna se bitcoin price move again.
also the deadline is near

I don't think the Securities and Exchange Commission is losing a lot of money when looking at the fines large exchanges and other crypto projects have paid them.
With the spot ETF, the issue has already been resolved, but it is not known when they will be approved and start working. I think that this will happen no earlier than 2024, and before that you need to lure bitcoins from hodles, so the price should still go down so that the hamsters will sell at a slight increase in price.

[joniboini]

the Sec loses much money and cases from XRP, Binance and Coinbase and now Grayscale  

What do you mean by losing money by the way? Do they need to pay money to argue their case in court? I never thought that was the case. Do you have any statistics on how much money they need to pay for each case?

[zasad@]

the Sec loses much money and cases from XRP, Binance and Coinbase and now Grayscale  

What do you mean by losing money by the way? Do they need to pay money to argue their case in court? I never thought that was the case. Do you have any statistics on how much money they need to pay for each case?

What statistics do you want to see if the SEC has lost several court cases?
https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2022-206
"Nov. 15, 2022 — The Securities and Exchange Commission today announced that it filed 760 total enforcement actions in fiscal year 2022, a 9 percent increase over the prior year. These included 462 new, or "stand alone," enforcement actions, a 6.5 percent increase over fiscal year 2021; 129 actions against issuers who were allegedly delinquent in making required filings with the SEC; and 169 "follow-on" administrative proceedings seeking to bar or suspend individuals from certain functions in the securities markets based on criminal convictions, civil injunctions, or other orders. The SEC’s stand-alone enforcement actions in fiscal year 2022 ran the gamut of conduct, from "first-of-their-kind" actions to cases charging traditional securities law violations.

Money ordered in SEC actions, comprising civil penalties, disgorgement, and pre-judgment interest, totaled $6.439 billion, the most on record in SEC history and up from $3.852 billion in fiscal year 2021. Of the total money ordered, civil penalties, at $4.194 billion, were also the highest on record. Disgorgement, at $2.245 billion, decreased by 6 percent from fiscal year 2021. Fiscal year 2022 was the SEC’s second highest year ever in whistleblower awards, in terms of both the number of individuals awarded and the total dollar amounts awarded."

https://www.cornerstone.com/insights/press-releases/sec-tightens-cryptocurrency-enforcement/
SEC Tightens Cryptocurrency Enforcement

Most projects and crypto exchanges agreed to fines and settled the problems before trial. And not a single crypto project will increase the conflict with the SEC if it wants to work in the American market.

[dansus021]

I don't think the Securities and Exchange Commission is losing a lot of money when looking at the fines large exchanges and other crypto projects have paid them.
With the spot ETF, the issue has already been resolved, but it is not known when they will be approved and start working. I think that this will happen no earlier than 2024, and before that you need to lure bitcoins from hodles, so the price should still go down so that the hamsters will sell at a slight increase in price.

Yeah I forgot about that part They also earn a lot of money from SEC fee stock and fines large exchanges and other investments that are related to the SEC.

I hope they approve after halving so the market can be as high as Mars not just the moon hahhaha.

What do you mean by losing money by the way? Do they need to pay money to argue their case in court? I never thought that was the case. Do you have any statistics on how much money they need to pay for each case?

According to this site that "It's difficult to come up with an average number for how much suing someone costs, but you should expect to pay somewhere around $10,000 for a simple lawsuit." - https://calbizjournal.com/lawsuit-basics-how-much-does-it-cost-to-sue-someone/

it is just for a simple lawsuit but I don't know how much they are going pay if they sue big companies like Binance Coinbase XRP in the same period

[zasad@]

I don't think the Securities and Exchange Commission is losing a lot of money when looking at the fines large exchanges and other crypto projects have paid them.
With the spot ETF, the issue has already been resolved, but it is not known when they will be approved and start working. I think that this will happen no earlier than 2024, and before that you need to lure bitcoins from hodles, so the price should still go down so that the hamsters will sell at a slight increase in price.

Yeah I forgot about that part They also earn a lot of money from SEC fee stock and fines large exchanges and other investments that are related to the SEC.

I hope they approve after halving so the market can be as high as Mars not just the moon hahhaha.

I have always had an alternative opinion about the rise of Bitcoin and I believe that this asset was manipulated for a long time by certain people who mined it in the early years and bought it cheap.
No one here can answer the simple question of why the SEC is banning spot ETFs?

Situation now


The SEC does not want capital flowing from the dollar to cryptocurrencies. A spot ETF will attract large capital to the market, with which they will buy bitcoins, so the old manipulator will lose its influence in this market. Now, manipulating the price of Bitcoin will require a lot of money.

Interesting theory or stupidity?

[Fiatless]

I have always had an alternative opinion about the rise of Bitcoin and I believe that this asset was manipulated for a long time by certain people who mined it in the early years and bought it cheap.

Although I am new to the Bitcoin space but most of the price manipulation of Bitcoin that I know was caused by the fall of exchanges, ban in China and dump by institutions like Elon Musk's SpaceX. It will also be of great interest to me if you can identify some of these early adopters who manipulate the market since most of them are anonymous. A proof the validate this position will clear my doubt.

The SEC does not want capital flowing from the dollar to cryptocurrencies. A spot ETF will attract large capital to the market, with which they will buy bitcoins, so the old manipulator will lose its influence in this market. Now, manipulating the price of Bitcoin will require a lot of money.

Interesting theory or stupidity?

Does this mean that the SEC is conspiring with these old manipulators to control the market?

[zasad@]

I have always had an alternative opinion about the rise of Bitcoin and I believe that this asset was manipulated for a long time by certain people who mined it in the early years and bought it cheap.

Although I am new to the Bitcoin space but most of the price manipulation of Bitcoin that I know was caused by the fall of exchanges, ban in China and dump by institutions like Elon Musk's SpaceX. It will also be of great interest to me if you can identify some of these early adopters who manipulate the market since most of them are anonymous. A proof the validate this position will clear my doubt.

The SEC does not want capital flowing from the dollar to cryptocurrencies. A spot ETF will attract large capital to the market, with which they will buy bitcoins, so the old manipulator will lose its influence in this market. Now, manipulating the price of Bitcoin will require a lot of money.

Interesting theory or stupidity?

Does this mean that the SEC is conspiring with these old manipulators to control the market?

Look at the chart of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. Very characteristic candles. A rapid rise in the price of a coin or a rapid fall in price. If there is a rise or fall of 50%, all margin positions from x2 and above are liquidated. This is how hamsters are usually cut.
If you are interested in my opinion about the SEC, then certain agreements are always present. For example, the SEC does not pursue Ethereum despite the ICO. How did the FTX exchange appear? Binance specialists helped when they had problems with SEC in the USA. This could all be a coincidence of course

[safar1980]

The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) has delayed until October making a decision on all of the spot bitcoin exchange-traded fund (ETF) applications filed by applicants including BlackRock, WisdomTree, Invesco Galaxy, Wise Origin, VanEck, Bitwise and Valkyrie Digital Assets earlier this year, according to agency filings on Thursday.
Already down sharply on the day, bitcoin (BTC) fell further on the news, now off 4.1% over the past 24 hours to $26,100.
https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2023/08/31/after-grayscale-victory-sec-kicks-the-can-on-latest-bitcoin-etf-applications/

[Poker Player]

The SEC does not want capital flowing from the dollar to cryptocurrencies. A spot ETF will attract large capital to the market, with which they will buy bitcoins, so the old manipulator will lose its influence in this market. Now, manipulating the price of Bitcoin will require a lot of money.

Interesting theory or stupidity?

Well, I wouldn't call it stupidity out of respect for good debate among forum members, but I don't agree with the theory. Someone who has a lot of bitcoins from the early years, if a lot of money comes in to buy Bitcoin for the ETF, what they are going to be is richer. Besides that in the early years it was much easier to get them, even mining with a laptop and cheaper.

If someone had, for example, 200,000 Bitcoins from the early years, Saylor with all the money he has spent, several billions of dollars, would still not have as many Bitcoins as him (Saylor has personally 17,732 and MSTR 152,800).

I don't know what the current holders of large amounts of early bitcoins will think, but if I were one, I would want a lot of money coming into the market.