When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with enforced tax

[hsdjkahskjdh]

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

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[Charles-Tim]

Bitcoin transaction fee is not an enforced tax.

Taxes are mandatory contributions levied on individuals or corporations by a government entity

This is different from the money paid as fee in wire transfer and some other means of fiat payment.

Fiat and bitcoin are completely different. Fiat has no fixed supply, it is centralized, not censorship resistant and it is an inflationary asset which is just the opposite of bitcoin which has limited supply, it is decentralized, censorship resistant and it is a deflationary asset in long term if compared with fiat.

[Bitcoin_Arena]

It seems to me that you need a lot to learn about how the Bitcoin network functions. Here... start with the white paper - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

The so-called enforced tax you are talking about is the mining/transaction fee. People who confirm blocks invest in a lot of resources to do so (investing in mining hardware, paying electricity bills, maintenance costs). The Mining rewards and transactions fees are an incentive to keep them running their mining hardware, otherwise the network would collapse or become less decentralized if there were not enough miners

Educate yourself before you make such opinions.

[mk4]

That's like saying that paying with physical cash money has enforced tax because you have to go commute or use gas on a car to meet someone.

You do realize that bitcoin without fees would potentially cause it to get spammed with useless transactions right? It isn't even that complicated to figure out. But I guess you need to have new criticisms to throw. Try harder.

[panganib999]

When will people realize that it's not cause we don't like fiat that we chose to side with bitcoin?

We chose to side with bitcoin cause here, profits are decentralized. Anyone could make it or succeed without being beaten by nepo babies, people who have privileges, or whatever the fuck's going on that gives some people unfair advantages and opportunities against other people. Bitcoin is chosen by millions of people because at the very least, in this industry we have the chance to succeed and earn money that we otherwise wouldn't have gotten if we remained your 9-5 sleeper agents. So fuck off with the "bitcoiners are stupid hurr durr it's just fiat with taxes" hell yeah it is. But at the very least when bitcoin pumps we reap the profits. When bitcoin opens opportunities for people to flourish in their careers they do. Has that happened to fiat?

[bitmover]

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee.

Network fee is a service.

You are paying to have the freedom to send money to whomever you want, wherever you want, without asking for authorization for it.

You also have more privacy.

[Wend]

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

You don't seem to have any knowledge of bitcoin and fiat, you can't even tell the difference between them, we really have nothing to discuss here. Do you see any decentralized national currencies? Is there any currency that gives us freedom? Bitcoin really brings a lot of benefits to us, but it is difficult to understand many people still stupidly reject it and still love fiat. Through fiat, the government is controlling you, you are losing free, and you want to be someone else's puppet, you don't want to be free? If you don't like bitcoin, then ignore it, don't post to let people know your stupidity.

[blue Snow]

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

I don't think it was a problem because what the tax mean if all countries in the world implemented Bitcoin as payment, The holder definitely rich, right? because Bitcoin price is not like today, maybe over a million, and maybe we just pay a few taxes to make it happen. So, tax is the 1st step for legalization, if a country implements for the assest, in the next time the people would believe that asset is legit.

[Darker45]

You seem to have gotten everything wrong. Take a closer look at Bitcoin and fiat once again and you will realize they're extreme opposites. You've mentioned about a transparent ledger. That itself is enough for you to consider Bitcoin as a different currency. Does fiat have one?

Comparing network fee and enforced tax is also wrong. From the word itself, a network fee is a fee for those who process your transactions in the network. You can't have it for free; it's a task that takes a lot of energy and computation.

Whether a nation legalizes it or not, a network fee is always required. Whether a tax is required on top of it or not, it's not anymore on Bitcoin. It's on the government that legalizes it.

[dzungmobile]

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee.

You don't understand what tax means.

With your interpretation, fee you pay with bank transfer will be considered as tax too but in fact it is not. It is simply one of fees you pay to use a service that is similar with on-chain transaction fee when you use Bitcoin network and bitcoin to move your fund from one address to another one.

[yhiaali3]

What's the problem with fees for bitcoin transactions? Do you not pay the fees when you do the banking transactions in addition to paying the tax? In all financial services you have to pay fees and taxes. Can any service continue without the fee?

Fees are perfectly healthy because they are necessary for miners to stay in their centers and also necessary for the network to continue working and its security, this is nonsense because no one complains about fees because everyone knows they are necessary. Complaining only happens about congestion and when fees go up.

[Gyfts]

A tax is a mandatory fee, so If you view taxes and fees to be the same, fine. I think you're mistaken but I see the logic. What would you consider to be a built in inflation rate of 2% minimum by the central banks on every single major fiat currency? That's under good conditions, the actual rate of inflation is often higher than 2%.

By virtue of that alone, the so called "tax rate" of Bitcoin is is already lower.

[Solosanz]

Let's not forget with monthly bank fee, fee for transferring money to different bank, monthly credit card fee, frozen funds, legal process etc that related with banks. Wow you've spend monthly fee and wasting your time to meet the bank requirement.

The thing is, nothing force you to transfer small amount of Bitcoin if you can't afford to pay the fee. After all you can still use fiat for small transaction and use Bitcoin for big transaction, as long as the government not remove fiat as legal tender.

[michellee]

The fees you pay in Bitcoin are not the taxes you give to the state. It's different. The fee you pay from a Bitcoin transaction is a service fee for the network to keep operating.

But when you use Bitcoin on an exchange, the government can request financial statements from the exchange, and then the government determines how much tax you have to pay. Or you submit a report of the exchange to the government so that the government can determine the range of taxes you must pay.

I don't know what happened in Canada so you have to pay network fees and taxes. You could tell in more detail about what happened there so there is no misunderstanding.

[Synchronice]

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee. When your nation legalizes it like canada you will pay network fee and tax on top, such wow.

Be frank, did you try to google 'Why does bitcoin fees exist"? I bet you haven't even done any research to answer your question angrily opened thread here. Bitcoin uses the Proof Of Work consensus mechanism to generate bitcoins. On average, one block is generated every ten minutes and this one block is capable to include 3500 transactions (more or less). If there was no transaction fee, one would be able to create millions of transactions with 0 fee and clog the mempool. In order to prevent that, transaction fees were implemented in Bitcoin ecosystem. Also, what's the fair way to prioritize transactions? The higher fee you pay, the quickly your transaction will get processed. And with the help of Lighting Network and some other changes, things will settle down in near future and fees will remain low.

[yudi09]

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee.

Taxes with fees are different by definition.
It's probably only now that we're hearing bitcoins are just fiat with taxes imposed after you leave those opinions here.

Taxes are paid to the state by citizens who are domiciled in that country. There are taxes that are mandatory, personal, income tax like me living in Indonesia. Tax paid by citizens to because they have used state facilities.
Bitcoin in transactions and mining are not taxes, they are called fees.

Maybe you have other intentions that you want to know by making this topic. Please write clearly so you can get the appropriate answer.

[Blitzboy]

You got it all wrong, and not just a little bit; like, REALLY wrong. First of all, calling Bitcoin fiat is like calling the internet a fad; they're both game-changers, but not in the way you're thinking! Fiat currency is backed by the government, and guess what? Governments can print as much of it as they like. Bitcoin, on the other hand, has a cap. There will only be 21 million Bitcoins, ever. It's scarcity at its finest.

And taxes? Taxes are a societal construct to support infrastructure, welfare, etc. Network fees? Those are part of the blockchain protocol to incentivize miners to keep the system going. They're not the same, buddy. And when it comes to extra taxes for legalization? That’s like saying I shouldn't use my credit card because of transaction fees. Come on, get real.

[un_rank]

People have been killed for it and tortured (sure this happens with fiat but the blood is on your hands now).

Do not expect a sensible argument from someone who types this as a negative of Bitcoin.

And do not feed the troll, just add the user to your ignore list.

- Jay -

[Lida93]

When will the bitcoiners realize bitcoin is just fiat with more steps on a transparent ledger with enforced tax aka network fee.

Taxes with fees are different by definition.
It's probably only now that we're hearing bitcoins are just fiat with taxes imposed after you leave those opinions here.

Taxes are paid to the state by citizens who are domiciled in that country. There are taxes that are mandatory, personal, income tax like me living in Indonesia. Tax paid by citizens to because they have used state facilities.
Bitcoin in transactions and mining are not taxes, they are called fees.

OP lacks an understanding of the difference between tax and fees and that's why he can ignorantly come up with this type of information about bitcoin. He needs to go back to the drawing board and strategize more and more because this just propaganda didn't hit as he had expected but a failed mission to mislead newbies about bitcoin and fiat difference.
Apart from all other explanations established by members about why the fees are attached to bitcoin mining and transactions, we call all attest that factors like inflation , centrality and control by government that's known to fiat are not associated with bitcoin.

[yudi09]

-snip-

OP lacks an understanding of the difference between tax and fees and that's why he can ignorantly come up with this type of information about bitcoin. He needs to go back to the drawing board and strategize more and more because this just propaganda didn't hit as he had expected but a failed mission to mislead newbies about bitcoin and fiat difference.
Apart from all other explanations established by members about why the fees are attached to bitcoin mining and transactions, we call all attest that factors like inflation , centrality and control by government that's known to fiat are not associated with bitcoin.

Yes, right. Bitcoin has nothing to do with things being controlled by the government.
Apart from not understanding the OP in terms of the difference in bitcoin fees and taxes, Governments can benefit from transactions in bitcoin and other crypto assets traded by exchanges that are located and operate in certain country licensing areas. The exchange belongs to a private company and of course there is an obligation for the company to pay taxes with the terms and conditions that have been decided.

Of course a legal exchange that can operate even if the country defines crypto as a commodity asset like in my country.
Because investors or traders in countries that do not legalize crypto as a legal means of payment must convert it into fiat.

This may be of use to the OP and I won't continue this discussion unless there is something interesting to discuss.