Blockchain Analytics is More of an Art Than Science

[HmmMAA]

It's sad to realize that even this forum (which should be considered a bastion of freedom) is full of systemic/globalist trojan horses trying to hijack Bitcoin's blockchain for nefarious purposes.

This is unfortunately nothing new. Here's a post I made two years ago:

Even on here, a bitcoin forum which is supposed to be built on the principles of not trusting third parties, we frequently see people more than happy to send their private information to complete strangers to claim some scam airdrop, and we frequently see people (even some senior members) state something along the lines of anyone that is trying to mix or otherwise obfuscate their transaction history is obviously trying to hide something illegal and should instead just let the government stick their noses in and monitor their entire bitcoin history.

These kinds of opinions aren't just attacks on privacy, but they are attacks on bitcoin itself. Bitcoin was not designed to become another mass surveillance tool for the government to wield against us, and anyone proposing as much should be viewed as a malicious actor. It makes plenty of sense now that the same guy who thinks "the state should be able to monitor everything" is also a BSV shill and CSW cult member. BSV is already completely centralized and CSW and his buddies can seize any coins they want out of any wallet in existence.

Oh , so cryptosize writes about me ? He's ignored , i guess he's not saying the nicest things . I think he is a descendant of Gauloises and he thinks that the sky is falling on his head . He is a fan of every conspiracy theory and thinks that he is a prophet that has come to earth to save the ignorants . It's common for half brain monkeys ( too many in our days ) .


As for you o-e-l-e-o , i have face many times from maxis ad hominem's , while they just try to avoid reality .  You tried to not answer my questions many times , so i'll give the answers myself . You claim that surveillance doesn't help while many crimes have been solved thanks to it ( private surveillance or not ) . You say that it doesn't prevent them . If these criminals aren't arrested will they commit new crimes ? So , if a criminal is arrested after a crime aren't his not yet executed crimes prevented ? Of course to understand such things you have to leave your personal beliefs on the side and it's obvious you don't do that .
You aren't interested about privacy , you want a society without rules ( especially if this benefits you ) . You can't understand the most important part about bitcoin which is a ledger that shows every transaction , auditable by anyone . It's the first electronic cash system that does that , isn't that strange for a creation of a cypherpunk ?
You don't understand that when everything is build on bitcoin you will be able to audit governments and authorities . You don't understand that ( most ) crime exists because it's profitable . If you make it non profitable it will almost disappear . Bitcoin is here to help you in more ways than you can imagine .
If you want to learn stuff about bsv you better start reading yourself and stop learning things from influencers . As what you say about coins seized is total nonsense . Courts can do that , not anyone . It's a more improved version of what satoshi said " Imagine if gold turned to lead when stolen. If the thief gives it back, it turns to gold again." . And i'm pro bsv because i'm a man that lives in my time . I don't use my pentium and my 56kbps modem . Times move on . I guess you too have at least some Mbps line and some TB pc . 1 MB blocks are just an excuse so bitcoin never becomes adopted . Keep supporting that and lightning , after 7 years still doesn't work properly ( and it won't ) . And PLEASE , don't ever let core or the community increase the blocksize and start rejecting blocks with your rapspi's if they do . Other chains will welcome your miners ( which will happen eventually either way ) .

FWIW, Bitcoin sidechain also exist where you can store such data. And by using SegWit/Taproot witness data (similar with what Ordinal does), you can store hash of multiple file into single transaction which have far higher efficiency.

Totally agree , that's what i said , sidechains aren't btc . RSK is a nice try from Sergio based on satoshi's vision about sidechains  but unfortunately didn't gain the traction it deserved . 

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[BlackHatCoiner]

It's funny how you talk about cryptosize being a fan of conspiracy theories, when you're under the impression of much more exaggerated stuff.

Πoια είναι τα σχέδια τoυ Core;

Nα καθυστερησoυν oσo γινεται περισσoτερo τo adoption , μιας και ενα δικτυo με ακριβoτερo κoστoς συναλλαγων απo τα υπαρχoντα δικτυα πληρωμων δεν υπαρχει λoγoς να υιoθετηθει μαζικα .

For non-Greek readers, that translates to:

What are Core's plans?

To delay the adoption as much as possible, since there is no reason for a network with more expensive transaction costs than the existing payment networks to be adopted en masse.

The Bitcoin Core developers want to delay adoption as much as possible, ruining Bitcoin's reputation, because... <enter conspiracy theory>  

As for you o-e-l-e-o , i have face many times from maxis ad hominem's , while they just try to avoid reality

Do maxis avoid reality as much as you avoid replying to my counter-arguments?

You can't understand the most important part about bitcoin which is a ledger that shows every transaction

I know you're having troubles comprehending the technical aspect, but please give it a try.

A ledger showing every transaction doesn't make it a ledger which contains beyond basic information regarding the transaction that takes place. We don't announce if we're buying a product, to whom we transact with, our real name etc. That means you can't tell if the money really changes hands, or if money is laundered, or used illegally. Hereby, electronic cash. These levels of pseudonymity come by default, and it's technically possible to improve them further, with techniques like coinjoin.

If you've grasped that part, and you're still of the opinion that the public shouldn't have freedom to enjoy these privacy levels, then maybe you should create a Stalin fork and see who follows? I'm sure lots of politicians will support it.

And i'm pro bsv because i'm a man that lives in my time . I don't use my pentium and my 56kbps modem

Lol. Have you tried downloading the BSV-pirate-movie-chain, or are you still syncing?

[HmmMAA]

The Bitcoin Core developers want to delay adoption as much as possible, ruining Bitcoin's reputation, because... <enter conspiracy theory>  

You are the one that have said many times in this forum that the 1 MB limit isn't sane . I understand that you have to argue just to increase your post count , earn some moneyz and also please cryptosize . Don't deny it , seems that your "friend" got you by the balls

Angelo, come the fuck on, you have confessed to me personally that you visit this board (even making worthless shitposting just to raise your post count!) to advertise shady centralized mixer services and you call me biased?

I don't remember shit of what I've talked with you about, we were exchanging messages for like a dozen of times a day once. The fact that you want to doxx me (by publishing my private messages) to prove a point says a lot.

To be honest i was expecting from you greater things , it's sad to see a young person falling to that low level just for profit .
I think community should give you neg trust , that's a serious accusation from cryptosize , so you could lose that income and maybe make you a better person ( small chances about both ) .

Do maxis avoid reality as much as you avoid replying to my counter-arguments?

I have spend many hour arguing with you , but it seems that i was wasting my time just to increase your post count . I thought i had something to offer to you ( my time ) but you were taking advantage of me . I should have refute your bullshit from the start https://effectiviology.com/brandolinis-law/

I know you're having troubles comprehending the technical aspect, but please give it a try.
A ledger showing every transaction doesn't make it a ledger which contains beyond basic information regarding the transaction that takes place. We don't announce if we're buying a product, to whom we transact with, our real name etc. That means you can't tell if the money really changes hands, or if money is laundered, or used illegally. Hereby, electronic cash. These levels of pseudonymity come by default, and it's technically possible to improve them further, with techniques like coinjoin.
If you've grasped that part, and you're still of the opinion that the public shouldn't have freedom to enjoy these privacy levels, then maybe you should create a Stalin fork and see who follows? I'm sure lots of politicians will support it.

What if you know the government's accounts ? Could you track how your/my/ours money are spent ? That's your problem , you only look at what benefits you . You fail to see the bigger picture . I won't waste any more time with you .

Lol. Have you tried downloading the BSV-pirate-movie-chain, or are you still syncing?

No need to do it yet , if i ever create a business on bsv i will certainly do . I'm not affraid to spend pennies like you by looking when fees are down to transact  

[BlackHatCoiner]

You are the one that have said many times in this forum that the 1 MB limit isn't sane

I'm still arguing that it isn't a long-term solution, even though it's completely irrelevant to your theory that the Core developers want to "destroy bitcoin".

I think community should give you neg trust

Listen. If you have something personal with me, you can address it in the Reputation board. Negative trust is not given if someone's randomly accused of admitting he's made a couple of shitposts, comparably to the rest of his. I'll be glad if you created a new topic, gathering all of my "shitposts" there, and perhaps reaching out my campaign manager for their input. In my experience, though, professional managers don't just randomly hire shitposters, but you're free to question their decision-making.

Unfortunately for you, discussions in this space are predominantly paid.

What if you know the government's accounts ?

Government spending is publicly available, and politicians have funds-source declaration. Corruption in politics won't be resolved by reporting Bitcoin addresses, because illicit activity like bravery happens with unreported funds in the first place.

The notion that with the absence of privacy, there will be absence of criminal activity and human corruption has long been debunked.

[cryptosize]

Oh , so cryptosize writes about me ? He's ignored , i guess he's not saying the nicest things .

I prefer to be truthful, even if that makes me unpleasant sometimes.

Are you equally truthful when you claim that you "ignore" my posts (even posts I made days ago)?

I bet not (come on, even BlackHatCoiner can see through your lies/bullshit ):

The Bitcoin Core developers want to delay adoption as much as possible, ruining Bitcoin's reputation, because... <enter conspiracy theory>  

You are the one that have said many times in this forum that the 1 MB limit isn't sane . I understand that you have to argue just to increase your post count , earn some moneyz and also please cryptosize . Don't deny it , seems that your "friend" got you by the balls

Angelo, come the fuck on, you have confessed to me personally that you visit this board (even making worthless shitposting just to raise your post count!) to advertise shady centralized mixer services and you call me biased?

I don't remember shit of what I've talked with you about, we were exchanging messages for like a dozen of times a day once. The fact that you want to doxx me (by publishing my private messages) to prove a point says a lot.

To be honest i was expecting from you greater things , it's sad to see a young person falling to that low level just for profit .
I think community should give you neg trust , that's a serious accusation from cryptosize , so you could lose that income and maybe make you a better person ( small chances about both ) .

Call me unpleasant if you like, I don't mind, but you will never be able to call me a liar. You tend to lie excessively on bitcointalk and you know it.

I think he is a descendant of Gauloises

I don't know who Gauloises is. Just because you're a smoker, doesn't mean I smoke too. I don't like burning my money, unlike you.

I'd rather stack more sats and protect my health from bad and addicting habits. Wanna try it too? Or do you lack self-discipline?

He is a fan of every conspiracy theory

Well, I certainly don't believe a narcissist like CSW could be Satoshi (which you do), along with his pedophile buddy (which you also seem to admire), that's even crazier than believing in flat earth (which I don't)... Len Sassaman would be a better candidate IMHO, but obviously I'm not going to insist, unlike you fawning over CSW's "high intelligence/philosophical ability" (as you've said many, many times before).

and thinks that he is a prophet that has come to earth to save the ignorants .

My posts are here (and there) for everyone to read and evaluate.

When I said back in late 2018 (3k bottom) that we would experience a new bull run in 2021, I was right, even though some people got angry with me.

When I said back in March 2020 that it was the new BTC bottom (4k USD) and FED's QE would fuel the new bull run, I was also right, despite some people not believing me once again.

Regarding my other predictions (climate QE etc.), you'll just have to wait until 2025. Less than 2 years left...

I'm sorry if you feel inadequate when someone else makes better predictions than you do. It seems your ego is bigger than your IQ.

And no, I don't believe that everyone deserves to be saved from the fiat Ponzi scheme. Definitely not useless eaters (and there are many of them).

Anyway, you can keep attacking BTC maxis just because you feel butthurt about losing the block size wars and betting on the wrong horse:

Crypto entrepreneur Calvin Ayre predicts that the flagship cryptocurrency, Bitcoin, will plunge to zero in 2019 because it’s worthless. But never fear, he said, because Bitcoin Cash Satoshi Vision (BSV) will be there to save the day.

This aged like fine wine...

Feel free to insist you "never" read this post.

What if you know the government's accounts ?

Government spending is publicly available, and politicians have funds-source declaration. Corruption in politics won't be resolved by reporting Bitcoin addresses, because illicit activity like bravery happens with unreported funds in the first place.

The notion that with the absence of privacy, there will be absence of criminal activity and human corruption has long been debunked.

Judging by Bob Menendez, it's possible to bribe politicians in many ways: USD cash, gold and maybe even Monero. Bribery won't go away with CBDC (cashless society), only fools believe that.

HmmMAA (also known as Geo Gou) envisions a utopia (more like a dystopia) of total transparency and "zero" crime. Sounds familiar? Many sci-fi movies have predicted this dystopian theme.

He wouldn't mind surveillance cameras even in his own WC, just because he has nothing to hide.

[mikeywith]

You claim that surveillance doesn't help while many crimes have been solved thanks to it ( private surveillance or not ) . You say that it doesn't prevent them . If these criminals aren't arrested will they commit new crimes ? So , if a criminal is arrested after a crime aren't his not yet executed crimes prevented ? Of course to understand such things you have to leave your personal beliefs on the side and it's obvious you don't do that .
You aren't interested about privacy , you want a society without rules ( especially if this benefits you )

In my country, many decades ago it was illegal for the police force to search your car without a warrant from the office of the attorney general or court, the lawmakers didn't seem to like that so they started changing it slightly one step at a time.

The first change was that the search was legal without a warrant, but unless they found a firearm in your car -- there was nothing much they could do about anything else they found, so there were many cases of police force searching a car that was being used in transporting a serious sum of drugs, they arrest the driver alongside the drugs, send them to court and the case will be dismissed right way as soon as the driver says " the drugs are not mine".

The next change they made was to include the "drugs" next to the firearms, so now you could be randomly checked at any checkpoint or even while getting pulled over for no reason, and if you got any drugs in the car it would be treated as if the search happened based on a court warrant, this lead to an increase of the number of drug dealers in prison by a few orders of magnitude, and then all the naive people were happy about the law change.

The next thing you know is that any police officer can stop you at any place, arrest you, take you to the general attorney's office, and say "We found this MDMA pill in his car" and just like that -- you get a few years in jail.

Years have passed since the change of the law, and now what? the drug dealers figured out many ways of moving the drugs around, no more fancy news headlines of "arrested 5 large drug dealers today" but every now and then we hear a story of an innocent person who was arrested and sentenced to a few months/years over something the law enforcement put in his car, the people are now fighting hard to change these laws because we don't care if you now catch 500 drug dealers instead of a 100 when we don't feel safe at checkpoints, I rather see the drug dealers in every corner of the country and not be sent to jail just because some police officer doesn't like the way I talk to him.

You can reflect the same drugs related law to the money laundry b.s, while these chain analyses do certainly help in catching hackers and bad actors in general, they could also be used as a weapon against innocent people, let's imagine a scenario where the law enforcement put their hands on an address that is proven to be owned by a human trafficker based on (chain analysis b.s), they use that address to send you some BTC and then take you to court with that evidence, that would be pretty terrible for you isn't it?  

It's funny because in your signature you put this great wisdom.

"It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong." Thomas Sowell

These chain analysis companies pay no price for being wrong, they just make what we can call an "educated guess" at best, and they don't have to pay the price for being wrong, this is indeed a fundamental disagreement not just related to crypto, some people think it's okay to bomb a whole building just to kill one criminal even if the collateral damage is 10 innocent people -- while others like me believe that even bombing a building with 10 criminal and 1 innocent soul is unacceptable.

[HmmMAA]

.... and then we hear a story of an innocent person who was arrested and sentenced to a few months/years over something the law enforcement put in his car

Honest question before i proceed to a full reply , how do we know that guy is innocent ?

[mikeywith]

.... and then we hear a story of an innocent person who was arrested and sentenced to a few months/years over something the law enforcement put in his car

Honest question before i proceed to a full reply , how do we know that guy is innocent ?

We know for sure because in some cases some other evidence were revealed, an example of that would be one of law enforcement officers telling the truth about thier partners either because they feel guilty or for some other personal reasons, but ya it happens all the time.

I am literally telling you that any random policeman can frame you pretty easily, just one pill of drug and you do a year in prison, you have to count on the integrity and honesty of everyone who has the power to frame you, you have no idea how scared people are when a police officer pull them over, you could end up doing a full a year in prison for "consuming drugs" and 5+ for selling it, if said officer has access to a large quantity of drugs they can put that in your car and you spend 5 good years in jail.

"extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", since this is someone's life and freedom, if the evidences are even remotely questionable -- they mean exactly nothing.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Honest question before i proceed to a full reply , how do we know that guy is innocent ?

How do you know he is guilty? Whatever happened to presumption of innocence?

The onus is not on the accused to prove innocence - the onus is on the prosecution to prove guilt. And the onus is not on me to to open myself up to complete scrutiny by blockchain analysis and other government funded mass surveillance tools and prove that I have "nothing to hide".

Innocence is the default position. Privacy is the default position.

[cryptosize]

Honest question before i proceed to a full reply , how do we know that guy is innocent ?

How do you know he is guilty? Whatever happened to presumption of innocence?

The onus is not on the accused to prove innocence - the onus is on the prosecution to prove guilt. And the onus is not on me to to open myself up to complete scrutiny by blockchain analysis and other government funded mass surveillance tools and prove that I have "nothing to hide".

Innocence is the default position. Privacy is the default position.

HmmMAA loves totalitarian regimes, because apparently they can offer "zero crime".

Innocence as the default position has been lost since March 2020. We're all "guilty" by default and then we have to "prove" we're innocent.

[HmmMAA]

We know for sure because in some cases some other evidence were revealed, an example of that would be one of law enforcement officers telling the truth about thier partners either because they feel guilty or for some other personal reasons, but ya it happens all the time.

I am literally telling you that any random policeman can frame you pretty easily, just one pill of drug and you do a year in prison, you have to count on the integrity and honesty of everyone who has the power to frame you, you have no idea how scared people are when a police officer pull them over, you could end up doing a full a year in prison for "consuming drugs" and 5+ for selling it, if said officer has access to a large quantity of drugs they can put that in your car and you spend 5 good years in jail.

"extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence", since this is someone's life and freedom, if the evidences are even remotely questionable -- they mean exactly nothing.

I'm glad that you understand the importance of evidence . What happens in your country is that you can't prove you are innocent . That's exactly what these cops are taking advantage of . It's your word against them .
Now imagine if these cops were wearing cameras . Imagine if there was a standard procedure that 2 cops had to search a car on opposite sides and film each other any moment so that no one of them could "plant" anything . Imagine if surveillance cameras existed in the place where traffic stops taking place so cops would know that their body camera videos are timestamped with the surveillance cameras that exist at the spot . Imagine if there were cameras in your car . Most of people will say that the bad state has cameras on policemen and cameras on road to invade their privacy , but these cameras can provide the evidence to prove that you are innocent .
So the problem is not that police is searching your car , but that the system is set up in such a way that it can be easily manipulated . Cops don't have accountability as no one can be certain if they act dishonestly , and by "default" a cop is serving the law so that makes him honest and you a criminal if they say so .
I think that in the cases you mention of cops telling the truth about their partners they would probably had some kind of evidence ( video , photo , recording etc ) . Usually when it's your word against 3 or 4 other guys , majority rules . So , that proves for another time what i say if you think of it .
Stop thinking that a society can work without rules both for public servants and citizens . Anarchy can't work , it will only lead to feudalism as human beings are mostly selfish . We need rules so there's accountability for our actions .  

How do you know he is guilty? Whatever happened to presumption of innocence?

The onus is not on the accused to prove innocence - the onus is on the prosecution to prove guilt. And the onus is not on me to to open myself up to complete scrutiny by blockchain analysis and other government funded mass surveillance tools and prove that I have "nothing to hide".

Innocence is the default position. Privacy is the default position.

I guess i have pointed about the presumption of innocence above . It's gone when drugs are found in the car ( even if it's planted ) . If cops word is the only evidence then suspect is screwed .
These cops proved guilt even if it's fake , and the funny part is that we don't know who's right or wrong .

In blockchain you can prove if you're innocent or not . Your transactions are the evidence . If you decide to take the route of anonymity you deprive yourself from the evidence you have . Bitcoin ( as it was supposed to work ) provides you with a high level of privacy , but not anonymity . If you are looking to be an anon you should better move to other chains . Bitcoin by default will not provide that .

[o_e_l_e_o]

Just lol. So your solution for corrupt police or a court system which assumes people are guilty on no evidence, is not to, you know, weed out the corruption or even enforce one of the oldest and most basic human rights of presumption of innocence? Your solution is more surveillance. So we all need to be surveilled at all times to protect us from the malicious state. That's the most insane logic I've heard yet.

Bitcoin by default will not provide that .

That's the first thing we agree on. Good thing that mixers and coinjoins exist.

[HmmMAA]

Just lol. So your solution for corrupt police or a court system which assumes people are guilty on no evidence, is not to, you know, weed out the corruption or even enforce one of the oldest and most basic human rights of presumption of innocence? Your solution is more surveillance. So we all need to be surveilled at all times to protect us from the malicious state. That's the most insane logic I've heard yet.

Youu got it wrong , they have evidence , the problem is that evidence is faked .
What's your solution to solve the problems you mention ? I'm really interested . Maybe i'm wrong after all .

[apogio]

In blockchain you can prove if you're innocent or not . Your transactions are the evidence . If you decide to take the route of anonymity you deprive yourself from the evidence you have . Bitcoin ( as it was supposed to work ) provides you with a high level of privacy , but not anonymity . If you are looking to be an anon you should better move to other chains . Bitcoin by default will not provide that .

I will leave the rest of the conversation aside, because I want to talk about it Bitcoin in this board.

Bitcoin provides pseudonimity, not anonymity.

To be honest though, there are too many implementations that will help you make tracing difficult (or even infeasible):

Bitcoin mixers, coinjoins, coin swapping, lightning swapping, selling for cash, buying with cash

Even though transaction history is available to everyone, if you just coinjoin properly, then there is absolutely no way for anyone to know for sure which path your original UTXO has taken.

I think being pseudonymous is a feature, not a flaw. In fact, there is no real anonymity on the internet. At the end of the day it is only a question of how well you can hide.

[mikeywith]

Now imagine if these cops were wearing cameras . Imagine if there was a standard procedure that 2 cops had to search a car on opposite sides and film each other any moment so that no one of them could "plant" anything . Imagine if surveillance cameras existed in the place where traffic stops taking place so cops would know that their body camera videos are timestamped with the surveillance cameras that exist at the spot .

So all this money is spent to achieve what exactly? body-worn cameras provide an overview of the overall incident and that's it, I can still manage to slide a tiny Ecstasy pill under my car seat while being watched by 10 cameras, in fact, in of the cases the went public after another officer confessed what his co-worker told him was that he held a drug pill between his fingers, reached to the victim's pocket to search and and "found the pill".

This would only work effectively if the procedure states that policemen have to approach the vehicle naked, with their legs and fingers spread, mouth open (probably add a mount-camera too), but as long as there is the slightest possibility that the policeman can slide a tiny little object in your pocket/car/house then the whole process is flawed.

This is the very reason why the previous legislators wrote the rules in such a way that at least a few different organizations/departments need to coordinate in order to frame you, you need to have a bad cop and a bad prosecutor working together to frame you which is pretty much unlikely to happen compared to when a single person can arrange everything by themselves.

So the problem is not that police is searching your car , but that the system is set up in such a way that it can be easily manipulated .

No, the problem is the police searching my car without a warrant, as explained above, cameras won't cut it, it would only make things a little bit more difficult but sure thing is -- it won't stop them.

In blockchain you can prove if you're innocent or not . Your transactions are the evidence .

You can't, anyone can frame you just like the drug example, say that I have a blacklisted address which the Chain analysis assumes that it belongs to me as an international terrorist who caused the death of 10000 people, what happens when I send a few sats to an address which you owned and confirmed ownership to it by KYCing yourself to the government, how are you going to prove that you were not in contact with me and that I sent you the coins to frame you?

Furthermore, if your funds sit on a CEX, not only they can partially frame you like that, but they could fully frame you by sending you "Tainted Bitcoin" and then withdrawing the same "tainted coins" to another address owned by you, this will be a perfect evidence that you and I are partners if we were to go with the assumption that those coins were indeed owned by me.

It's even worse if you think about it, there doesn't need to be an actual terrorist involved, the chain analysis company can just link those coins to anyone, they can just send you some random coins and they could just assume that you received them in exchange for trafficking a 10-year old boy, how are you going defend yourself against that when we don't know how they got to the conclusion and they won't share the "how" with anyone?

If you initiate a transaction that has two outputs one is 0.005655 and another has 0.001 all these chain analysis software will assume that the first output is the change address just because they believe it's impossible to end up with a change that is a round number, you could always fool these fools by ending up with a round change, everything else they build on it, later on, will be false, it is all but guesswork, greater for research purposes but terrible for court evidence.

So you want a safe community which is great, but you think all criminals are in the street you need to remember that many criminals are in government offices waiting to exploit anything against you, they would protect you from the street criminals but nothing will protect you from them, the more power you give them they more they will use it against you, not just against the criminals.

A safe world is achieved by increasing the standard of living not by spying on every aspect of the citizens' lives, there is no link between the cities with the most CCTV systems and low crime levels, and the opposite is correct, many cities are hardly watched and yet they have little no crimes.

[LoyceV]

I wouldn't call it an art. It's just business. Just like "taint", it's a "solution" looking for a problem. Once they convince people there is a problem, they have buyers for their "solution".

[apogio]

I wouldn't call it an art. It's just business. Just like "taint", it's a "solution" looking for a problem. Once they convince people there is a problem, they have buyers for their "solution".

I don't think "taint" is an actual problem, but I believe it is our right to try to erase traces of previously owned bitcoin. That said, I am not afraid whether my coins will be accepted or not, I just want to "confuse" anyone trying to identify how I got my coins and from whom, because I don't think it's anyone's business to know.

[cryptosize]

LOL @ people who claim multiple cameras can "save" innocent citizens. They're either useful idiots (claiming to have above average IQ ), or systemic trojan horses/government agents pretending to be laymen citizens.

Let me tell you one thing: the most ancient/advanced camera in the world are your own eyes. Infinite resolution, high frame rate, large color depth...

Have you ever seen magicians performing tricks right in front of your eyes? Were you ever able to figure out how they do it? NO!

So, who the hell tells you that policemen cannot receive magician training to plant you some kind of pill/drug in your car?

Only dystopia lovers will tell you that... the same kind of people who loved COVID lockdowns (and are going to love cameras in the future to enforce climate lockdowns, because we need "rules" in a society).

[BlackHatCoiner]

I think being pseudonymous is a feature, not a flaw.

I think it's rather a tradeoff. I mean, the founder was pretty much in favor of anonymity judging by his posts[1][2]. The reason the network doesn't operate in "complete anonymity", as in Monero, might be because he wasn't aware of how to implement it at that time, or because it'd be a burden in terms of transaction scaling. If you didn't know it, Monero full nodes need to keep all the outputs and be able to efficiently index them, whereas in Bitcoin, you only need to keep UTXOs.

He surely wasn't against anonymity, as it's possible to achieve it using coinjoin.

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=770.msg9074#msg9074
[2] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=8.msg34#msg34

[apogio]

Don't you think the conversation has gone out of the general board's theme? I suggest we keep talking about the analytics and avoid posts regarding society in general.

If you didn't know it, Monero full nodes need to keep all the outputs and be able to efficiently index them, whereas in Bitcoin, you only need to keep UTXOs.

No I didn't, thanks for clarifying that. I don't think satoshi wanted to create a fully anonymous chain, even though your posts are accurate and he seems to be in favor of total anonymity.