Biden administration unveils (proposes) new crypto tax reporting rules

[larry_vw_1955]

"Criminal Code of the Russian Federation Article 159:
Fraud, that is, the theft of someone else’s property or the acquisition of rights to someone else’s property through deception or abuse of trust."

What you call fraud is not fraud in Russia. This article is about non-payment of taxes by an individual. For example, a citizen received $10,000 from 1 person, then you can try to find the sender and prove non-payment of taxes, and if it is a transfer from 20-30 people for $200-500, then you need to take testimony from all of these people. No one will do this, and a citizen is not obliged to testify against himself and make the work of the tax inspector easier.

well i dont know how it works in russia but in the usa there is no "tax inspector" there's just the IRS and if their computer system says you owe money they're not going to erase that unless there's a really good reason. Guilty until proven innocent. sounds like you live in a nice place.

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[Zoomic]

"Criminal Code of the Russian Federation Article 159:
Fraud, that is, the theft of someone else’s property or the acquisition of rights to someone else’s property through deception or abuse of trust."

What you call fraud is not fraud in Russia. This article is about non-payment of taxes by an individual. For example, a citizen received $10,000 from 1 person, then you can try to find the sender and prove non-payment of taxes, and if it is a transfer from 20-30 people for $200-500, then you need to take testimony from all of these people. No one will do this, and a citizen is not obliged to testify against himself and make the work of the tax inspector easier.

well i dont know how it works in russia but in the usa there is no "tax inspector" there's just the IRS and if their computer system says you owe money they're not going to erase that unless there's a really good reason. Guilty until proven innocent. sounds like you live in a nice place.

That is nice for the Russian system and that will make many people avade task and a few could only be convicted for fraud. Jo citizen is obliged to testify against the other. This is why I am confident that no matter the amount of taxation and regulations on crypto, the government cannot successfully extinct cryptocurrency. What happens will be that crypto users will be shifting residence from a country of unfavourable laws to that of favorable laws.

I'm not an expert on law by any means, but as far as I can remember some laws do change and a new president can introduce change or stop legislation from being enforced, as long as all involved bodies agree of course. Not sure if that will happen since most countries would likely want to tax crypto as aggressively as possible.

Yes, there is always a room for change of laws when they are flexible. But it will need a concensus which is hardly reached among the tiers of government.

[yhiaali3]

  the government cannot successfully extinct cryptocurrency. What happens will be that crypto users will be shifting residence from a country of unfavourable laws to that of favorable laws.

I do not think anyone will change their place of residence from a country with unfavorable laws to a country with favorable laws in order to work in Crypto except in a few cases. Changing their place of residence from one country to another is not an easy matter at all, especially if there is a wife, children, and job.

It is easier to pay taxes than to go through the hassle of changing residence from one country to another, or he can evade taxes in some way if he feels that the tax laws are unfair, or in the worst case hold his crypto assets in a custodial wallet until the laws change and conditions become favourable.

[zasad@]

"Criminal Code of the Russian Federation Article 159:
Fraud, that is, the theft of someone else’s property or the acquisition of rights to someone else’s property through deception or abuse of trust."

What you call fraud is not fraud in Russia. This article is about non-payment of taxes by an individual. For example, a citizen received $10,000 from 1 person, then you can try to find the sender and prove non-payment of taxes, and if it is a transfer from 20-30 people for $200-500, then you need to take testimony from all of these people. No one will do this, and a citizen is not obliged to testify against himself and make the work of the tax inspector easier.

well i dont know how it works in russia but in the usa there is no "tax inspector" there's just the IRS and if their computer system says you owe money they're not going to erase that unless there's a really good reason. Guilty until proven innocent. sounds like you live in a nice place.

How is it possible for a computer algorithm in the USA to decide who is guilty and who is not?
What will you have tomorrow? Will a computer algorithm decide who the criminal is?
I communicate with Americans, and if the IRS has questions for a citizen, they talk to him on the phone on the record or invite him to the office for questions. And a citizen has the right to come with a lawyer and not testify against himself until the lawyer studies the case.

[coolcoinz]

Of course they'd like total surveillance and it was said long time ago that exchanges are the weakest point of bitcoin and that's what these crooks from the government are attacking. They're even going after the ones that were trying to play by their rules (coinbase).

Let's hope Biden administration is not there anymore by the end of next year. This cancer has to be cut out. I don't think we were getting so much negativity towards cryptocurrencies. from any other US government.

[zasad@]

Of course they'd like total surveillance and it was said long time ago that exchanges are the weakest point of bitcoin and that's what these crooks from the government are attacking. They're even going after the ones that were trying to play by their rules (coinbase).

Let's hope Biden administration is not there anymore by the end of next year. This cancer has to be cut out. I don't think we were getting so much negativity towards cryptocurrencies. from any other US government.

If you hope for the improvement of the situation in the centralized exchanges, then your hopes will die. All large and medium exchanges will introduce the KYC procedure and they will work according to the FATF rules, as in this topic
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5465881.0
Each transaction for withdrawal from the exchange will be verified, so you do not need to be 100% sure that you will be able to withdraw your money.
Better study decentralized exchange services. They are inconvenient and not suitable for trading, but they allow you to own your coins.

[larry_vw_1955]

I do not think anyone will change their place of residence from a country with unfavorable laws to a country with favorable laws in order to work in Crypto except in a few cases. Changing their place of residence from one country to another is not an easy matter at all, especially if there is a wife, children, and job.

you can move out of the usa but that doesn't mean you still dont have to file a tax return there and pay taxes unless you can get citizenship in another country.

It is easier to pay taxes than to go through the hassle of changing residence from one country to another,

it costs alot of money to relinquish your usa citizenship. there's a reason for that. no one wants deadbeats moving into their country.

How is it possible for a computer algorithm in the USA to decide who is guilty and who is not?

it's called computer programming. if then statements. if tax liability is greater than x then send letter if higher than 50% of last years tax.
once you get the bill in the mail you're guilty until proven innocent. someone said something about getting a lawyer and meeting with the irs in person. if you need to do all of that then youre definitely guilty and they know it!  

What will you have tomorrow? Will a computer algorithm decide who the criminal is?

the computer algorithm figures out how much you stiffed them by and how much you owe. then it sends you a bill in the mail. you can try calling them on the phone to plead your case but they are kind of swamped with phone calls.

[zasad@]

How is it possible for a computer algorithm in the USA to decide who is guilty and who is not?

it's called computer programming. if then statements. if tax liability is greater than x then send letter if higher than 50% of last years tax.
once you get the bill in the mail you're guilty until proven innocent. someone said something about getting a lawyer and meeting with the irs in person. if you need to do all of that then youre definitely guilty and they know it!  

What will you have tomorrow? Will a computer algorithm decide who the criminal is?

the computer algorithm figures out how much you stiffed them by and how much you owe. then it sends you a bill in the mail. you can try calling them on the phone to plead your case but they are kind of swamped with phone calls.

In Russia, when a policeman wants to see what is in your pockets or see what you are carrying in the trunk of your car, he must draw up a report and call witnesses, but instead he will tell you: “Why do you need these extra procedures, you are not a criminal?”

But if we talk about taxes, then in Russia there is the concept of “withdrawal of money from a bank account without acceptance.” If the tax office believes that this money in a citizen’s account is a tax, then why send a letter? They can take the money from the bank account themselves.
And if you have been sent a letter with any demand, then you have the legal right to use legal assistance and write your objections to the tax authorities in another letter.
Tax authorities make a lot of mistakes, but you don't have to condone their mistakes.

____
I have a good experience of winning tax cases in my country. Lawyers from the tax office are not interested in the results of the case, they don’t even delve into this matter, because it does not greatly affect the salary.
In Russia there is a different philosophy: only the guilty person pays.
An innocent person defends his rights, writes letters and complaints to supervisory authorities. Therefore, it is often beneficial for the tax authorities to close the case and look for another fool who will agree to pay:)

[larry_vw_1955]

In Russia, when a policeman wants to see what is in your pockets or see what you are carrying in the trunk of your car, he must draw up a report and call witnesses, but instead he will tell you: “Why do you need these extra procedures, you are not a criminal?”

just tell them you are exercising your rights.

But if we talk about taxes, then in Russia there is the concept of “withdrawal of money from a bank account without acceptance.” If the tax office believes that this money in a citizen’s account is a tax, then why send a letter? They can take the money from the bank account themselves.

yeah the IRS can freeze your bank account and take money out of it too. but they give people a chance to fix the matter first.

And if you have been sent a letter with any demand, then you have the legal right to use legal assistance and write your objections to the tax authorities in another letter.

make sure you do it by their deadline they give you.

Tax authorities make a lot of mistakes, but you don't have to condone their mistakes.

most of the mistakes are probably not in the taxpayers favor. when the irs makes a mistake, it's harder to get money back from them....

In Russia there is a different philosophy: only the guilty person pays.
An innocent person defends his rights, writes letters and complaints to supervisory authorities.

Do they get to bill the Russian tax authority for all the time they wasted to prove they were innocent?

[zasad@]

In Russia, when a policeman wants to see what is in your pockets or see what you are carrying in the trunk of your car, he must draw up a report and call witnesses, but instead he will tell you: “Why do you need these extra procedures, you are not a criminal?”

just tell them you are exercising your rights.

But if we talk about taxes, then in Russia there is the concept of “withdrawal of money from a bank account without acceptance.” If the tax office believes that this money in a citizen’s account is a tax, then why send a letter? They can take the money from the bank account themselves.

yeah the IRS can freeze your bank account and take money out of it too. but they give people a chance to fix the matter first.

And if you have been sent a letter with any demand, then you have the legal right to use legal assistance and write your objections to the tax authorities in another letter.

make sure you do it by their deadline they give you.

Tax authorities make a lot of mistakes, but you don't have to condone their mistakes.

most of the mistakes are probably not in the taxpayers favor. when the irs makes a mistake, it's harder to get money back from them....

In Russia there is a different philosophy: only the guilty person pays.
An innocent person defends his rights, writes letters and complaints to supervisory authorities.

Do they get to bill the Russian tax authority for all the time they wasted to prove they were innocent?

If you ever visit Russia, know that not everywhere you should talk about your rights. There are a lot of cameras in Moscow and St. Petersburg, so you can talk about your rights there, but I would not advise doing this in other places if you do not know the situation.

I agree that the tax office can freeze a bank account, but it is impossible to take money without a court decision. In Russia, tax inspectors take advantage of the illiteracy of the population and convince them what is the best way to pay, but this is not always better.

What is your deadline for responding to tax letters? In Russia, 10 days from the date of receipt, but if there are valid reasons (illness,..) then the deadlines are extended. But if you expect such letters, then you should be prepared for retaliatory actions.

The tax office made mistakes when working with me. After the letter, the money was returned within 30-45 days, these periods are regulated by law. You can go to court, but the damage is also calculated according to the law. Small amounts make it unprofitable to go to court.