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Author Topic: Crosspass - a simple way to share passwords, encryption keys, banking info  (Read 413 times)
frisco2 (OP)
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September 12, 2023, 03:37:07 AM
Last edit: September 12, 2023, 05:09:02 AM by frisco2
 #21

Moreover, the id system that you use is actually not very convincing for people because someone could guess a random id and log into someone's account (even if the attempt fails up to 3 times, this is still vulnerable) and this application is paid which for some people is quite annoying .

Please note that Apple is using the same 4 digit code system to end-to-end encrypt your iCloud data, when it is synched with your phone. It is not using OPAQUE, it is using Secure Remote Password (SRP) protocol which is conceptually just like OPAQUE but has an extra leg of communication and does not have a security proof. I could have used SRP too, but I chose to use the newer OPAQUE which is still in an RFC draft, now in 11th iteration.

See page 35,36 of this document, which describes Apple security in 2014:
https://www.apple.com/mx/privacy/docs/iOS_Security_Guide_Oct_2014.pdf

Quote
# Escrow security

iCloud provides a secure infrastructure for keychain escrow that ensures only authorized
users and devices can perform a recovery. Topographically positioned behind iCloud
are clusters of hardware security modules (HSM). These clusters guard the escrow
records. Each has a key that is used to encrypt the escrow records under their watch,
as described previously.

To recover a keychain, users must authenticate with their iCloud account and password
and respond to an SMS sent to their registered phone number. Once this is done, users
must enter their iCloud Security Code. The HSM cluster verifies that a user knows his or
her iCloud Security Code using Secure Remote Password protocol (SRP); the code itself
is not sent to Apple. Each member of the cluster independently verifies that the user has
not exceeded the maximum number of attempts that are allowed to retrieve his or her
record, as discussed below. If a majority agree, the cluster unwraps the escrow record
and sends it to the user’s device.

Next, the device uses the iCloud Security Code to unwrap the random key used to
encrypt the user’s keychain. With that key, the keychain—retrieved from iCloud key
value storage—is decrypted and restored onto the device. Only 10 attempts to
authenticate and retrieve an escrow record are allowed. After several failed attempts,
the record is locked and the user must call Apple Support to be granted more attempts.
After the 10th failed attempt, the HSM cluster destroys the escrow record and the
keychain is lost forever. This provides protection against a brute-force attempt to
retrieve the record, at the expense of sacrificing the keychain data in response.

In summary, Apple considers 4 digits to be secure enough, just like a bank.

When you argue that a 4 digit PIN is too short, are you arguing that a conventional password in its place would also be too weak? In that case, you are challenging the security of SRP and OPAQUE protocols, not merely Crosspass.

If you are not comfortable with 4 digits, then you can transfer 3 random keys, then combine them (by e.g. SHA or XOR) to get a new key. This way you increase the difficulty of guessing to a 12 digits password. That's 11.5 x 3 = 35 coin flips which the MITM must guess in 1 attempt. Using Crosspass 3 times in a row is still easier than PGP or Diffie-Hellman.

If you want an open source tool implementing OPAQUE, my patent would not stop you. My patent, in fact, does not limit to OPAQUE use, but says that any PAKE (Password Authenticated Exchange) can be used. So what is my innovation then, and why was I given a patent? My innovation is that I put it into a mobile phone form-factor. From the patent's abstract,

Quote
This invention enables asynchronous encrypted communication under a protection of a simple password which must be communicated out-of-band. The password is easily communicable in-person, by telephone or by a text message. The invention assumes that one of the parties has an online device, such as a smartphone. After the encrypted session has been established, it can be used for a variety of cryptographic applications, such as encrypting or decrypting messages, sharing of cryptographic keys, and verifying data. The invention also has the secondary benefit of authenticating both parties to each other.

About the bugs:

One thing I know that Crosspass has bugs currently:

- Crosspass is still Beta.
- The iOS version is more stable than the Android version.  
- We are working on the bug found by @dkbit98 to improve error message, so that we can see what actually happened (I suspect it was related to app permissions).
- Known bugs are likely UI only and have no security implications. The protocol encryption itself is implemented in Go and is plugged into both iOS and Android apps as a library.  Doing it this way allows to test the encryption by unit tests, offline and outside the app.

Here's a list of public dependencies from go.mod:

Quote
       filippo.io/edwards25519 v1.0.0 // indirect
        github.com/borisreitman/crypto v1.0.1 // indirect
        github.com/cronokirby/saferith v0.33.0 // indirect
        github.com/mtraver/base91 v1.0.0 // indirect
        github.com/pylls/basket2 v0.0.0-20161221160633-eafbfb819e44 // indirect
        github.com/twystd/tweetnacl-go v0.0.0-20210413205227-681aa97ec383 // indirect
        gitlab.com/yawning/edwards25519-extra.git v0.0.0-20220726154925-def713fd18e4 // indirect
        golang.org/x/crypto v0.0.0-20221012134737-56aed061732a // indirect
        golang.org/x/mobile v0.0.0-20220928052126-fa6bcb076835 // indirect
        golang.org/x/sys v0.0.0-20210809222454-d867a43fc93e // indirect


Crosspass -- a simple way to send passwords, encryption keys, bitcoin addresses, etc.
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September 12, 2023, 07:09:12 AM
 #22

We are working on the bug found by @dkbit98 to improve error message, so that we can see what actually happened (I suspect it was related to app permissions).
I am glad I was the first one to publicly find a bug without actually doing a code review  Cheesy

Known bugs are likely UI only and have no security implications.
Maybe, but result is that app is currently not usable for me.
Security implications is secondary if you don't have any usability.

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frisco2 (OP)
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September 15, 2023, 06:57:52 AM
 #23

Crosspass discussed on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/crypto/comments/16fntuc/crosspass_a_mobile_app_to_exchange_passwords_and/

Re bugs, I have now hired a QA. Hopefully we will reproduce this bug and will catch new bugs before users do.  I plan to release an update by Oct 15.

Crosspass -- a simple way to send passwords, encryption keys, bitcoin addresses, etc.
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September 15, 2023, 11:26:08 PM
 #24

Re bugs, I have now hired a QA. Hopefully we will reproduce this bug and will catch new bugs before users do.  I plan to release an update by Oct 15.
Am I getting any special reward for catching the first bug? Wink
I already replied to message you sent me, so you know situation about no-code review, but I will try to test Crosspass app again on different device when I have more free time.
Cheers.

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frisco2 (OP)
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September 16, 2023, 02:20:26 AM
Last edit: September 16, 2023, 03:32:07 PM by frisco2
 #25

The Crosspass app requires a real device, not an emulator. Here is an excerpt from the white paper that explains the reason,

Quote
Crosspass verifies device authenticity and throttles accesses by IP address.

The Crosspass API checks Alice’s device authenticity when her device wants to share a new item. For iOS, it relies on the Device Check and App Attest APIs. For Android, it relies on the Play Integrity API.

Verifications are necessary to prevent a sender’s Denial of Service attack on the availability of lookup IDs. (The lookup ID consists of four case-insensitive letters, therefore the maximum number of reserved lookup IDs are less than half a million.) Verifications are also necessary to avoid a recipient’s attack causing too many Push Notifications to senders’ devices.

In future versions of Crosspass, whenever device verification is insufficient to prevent DoS attacks on lookup ID reservation, a CAPTCHA would be shown. This would be limited only to users who have a public IP from which unusually many requests originate.


Crosspass -- a simple way to send passwords, encryption keys, bitcoin addresses, etc.
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September 16, 2023, 03:38:38 PM
Last edit: September 16, 2023, 03:51:32 PM by frisco2
 #26

The Crosspass app requires a real device, not a simulator. Here is an excerpt from the white paper that explains the reason,

--snip--

Although the number is very small, people who use custom Android ROM is likely unable to pass such check.

I can make it that if the device does not pass the Play Integrity check, the server will request a CAPTCHA. However, the sender's device still needs to receive Push Notifications and to be online. For an emulator on a desktop this will not be reliable since people shut off their laptops, or laptops go to sleep.

My idea for desktop use of Crosspass is to make a Blitz mode. The whole exchange must take within a few minutes and both the sender and recipient need to be online at the same time.  This will remove the need for Push Notifications and allow to anonymize both sides via VPN.  The same kind of Blitz mode can be made on the phone too. (It is possible to hold an open socket for a brief time, without relying on Push notifications.)

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September 26, 2023, 10:44:59 PM
 #27

The problem is that people do not want to use the encryption. And they also do not need to share passwords, encryption keys and banking info. In the market you can sale only if you have customers.
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September 27, 2023, 06:12:10 AM
 #28

It might be nice if you can create a Offline App that can be used to import private keys for paper wallets. Imagine if you can encrypt the private key offline, before you use it and when you go online to import it.. then it quickly decrypt it before you import it. (It does not give the hacker the time to capture and use it, before you use it)  Wink

Many people have malware / Clipboard hacks etc... that collect private keys, when you paste it in text ... and if the hacker is fast enough, he or she can exploit that.... but if the private key are encrypted "offline" and then decrypted just before you use it online to import, it will help you to prevent that exploit.

Good luck with "Crosspass"... once you can get the source code independently verified and you received a "green" light for the trust aspect, then things will change for you.  Wink

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September 27, 2023, 07:06:04 AM
 #29

It might be nice if you can create a Offline App that can be used to import private keys for paper wallets. Imagine if you can encrypt the private key offline, before you use it and when you go online to import it.. then it quickly decrypt it before you import it.
That's called BIP38 encryption.

Quote
(It does not give the hacker the time to capture and use it, before you use it)  Wink
That's a huge gamble! Chances are "the hacker" is just a piece of automated malware, and chances are it's a lot faster than you are. That is of course what you should assume, and take measures to prevent it. So instead of risking everything by decrypting your private key on an online computer, it's much better to sign the transaction offline and never expose your private key to an online machine.

Quote
Many people have malware / Clipboard hacks etc... that collect private keys, when you paste it in text ... and if the hacker is fast enough, he or she can exploit that.... but if the private key are encrypted "offline" and then decrypted just before you use it online to import, it will help you to prevent that exploit.
You seem to think hacks happen when someone is manually monitoring your computer.

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October 18, 2023, 05:16:31 PM
Last edit: October 20, 2023, 08:23:01 PM by hilariousandco
 #30

One thing I know that Crosspass has bugs currently:
...

Update: I have released a new version of Crosspass for Android that fixes many stability issues it had.

# Oct 9, 2023
- Auto-correction of text when composing notes
- Improved handling of Play Integrity verification
- Fix right-to-left language locale
- Improved handling of no Internet connection
- Bug fixes related to navigation within the app

I have also released an updated version for iOS, which primarily improved the Paste functionality.

I am now handling the case when the sending side has a bad cellular data connection or the sender is offline (e.g. on an airplane flight).

I also began planning to add a feature to send images, not just text. This is useful if you need to send someone your driving license or a passport photo.

If you want to see this take off, you can help by following me on social media:

https://twitter.com/entelecheia_inc
https://www.linkedin.com/company/entelecheia-inc
https://www.facebook.com/crosspassapp
https://www.instagram.com/crosspass.app

The problem is that people do not want to use the encryption. And they also do not need to share passwords, encryption keys and banking info. In the market you can sale only if you have customers.

A sender does not want to use encryption if it puts an out-of-proportion burden on the recipient to learn how to decrypt.  I tried to make Crosspass easy on the recipient. It's on the App Store and Play Store, it's free, and as soon as the app opens the user is asked to type the access code to receive a shared note.

There are already services for sharing passwords and text notes. Most of them are web-based and therefore insecure. But the fact that they exist, shows that there is demand.

privnote.com
onetimesecret.com

Found these guys recently: sharepass.com

If you can send a password, you can send anything, because you can Zip files with AES encryption using 7-zip. No special software is needed on the receiving end to unzip.
It might be nice if you can create a Offline App that can be used to import private keys for paper wallets. Imagine if you can encrypt the private key offline, before you use it and when you go online to import it.. then it quickly decrypt it before you import it. (It does not give the hacker the time to capture and use it, before you use it)  Wink

Many people have malware / Clipboard hacks etc... that collect private keys, when you paste it in text ... and if the hacker is fast enough, he or she can exploit that.... but if the private key are encrypted "offline" and then decrypted just before you use it online to import, it will help you to prevent that exploit.

Do I understand correctly that you want to send your paper wallet key to someone else? Further, is it the case that you don't want you or him to use the clipboard?
Does his wallet software have an ability to import a key from a text file?

I can add to Crosspass an ability to save text into a file, or read from file, instead of relying on the clipboard.  Does that help you? You can work with files and your phone without Internet or LAN, by USB cable or NFC.



Crosspass -- a simple way to send passwords, encryption keys, bitcoin addresses, etc.
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October 20, 2023, 07:18:32 PM
 #31

Update: I have released a new version of Crosspass for Android that fixes many stability issues it had.
I can no longer install and/or update Crosspass on android emulator so you probably fixed that as well.
However, I still think you need to have usable option for desktop users...

EDIT: wait a minute, I just installed Crosspass on emulator again.

I don't have g00gle play store installed, so I am getting this error when I try to create password and note:



I also began planning to add a feature to send images, not just text. This is useful if you need to send someone your driving license or a passport photo.
What's the difference from sending image with encrypted email or other encrypted chatting app?


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frisco2 (OP)
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October 20, 2023, 11:22:21 PM
Last edit: October 22, 2023, 12:13:28 PM by frisco2
Merited by dkbit98 (1)
 #32

I don't have g00gle play store installed, so I am getting this error when I try to create password and note:

Yes, I have added alerts to handle the case when Google Play services are either not installed, or Play Integrity returns an error.  Even if you install Play Services in the emulator, it won't pass the further checks, since Play Services verifies whether you have a real device (this is called Play Integrity API).


However, I still think you need to have usable option for desktop users...

I found a Python package that works on the Desktop which is similar to Crosspass in concept.  It is called Magic Wormhole and it was created in 2016.

https://github.com/magic-wormhole/magic-wormhole

The fact that it is not widely used is saying something, namely that it is too technical and too real-time.

I also began planning to add a feature to send images, not just text. This is useful if you need to send someone your driving license or a passport photo.
What's the difference from sending image with encrypted email or other encrypted chatting app?

This is a summary of advantages of Crosspass stated earlier, and they apply to images as much as text. The difference is that Crosspass enforces key verification as part of the natural flow, via the PIN which looks just like an OTP familiar to users. All other services rely on public keys being managed by an untrusted party (a server).  This allows the third party to MITM you at will.   The other issue is JavaScript backdoors which become a problem with webmail (ProtonMail), or anything inside a web browser.

Furthermore, if you are sending a driving licence or a passport, most likely the recipient is some clerk in some company. He will not jump through hoops to receive your encrypted image. He will not signup with ProtonMail. And he will not give you his private phone number for Signal or WhatsApp.







Crosspass -- a simple way to send passwords, encryption keys, bitcoin addresses, etc.
wallet4bitcoin
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December 17, 2023, 10:53:50 AM
 #33

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I can add to Crosspass an ability to save text into a file, or read from file, instead of relying on the clipboard.  Does that help you? You can work with files and your phone without Internet or LAN, by USB cable or NFC.

Frankly this is a welcome development in the tech space, particularly the Bitcoin space as it has tremendous impart in the way it is niched. I have heard of a network that is used to transact or transfer Bitcoin without the need for internet and this technology was used a few years back when there was a long protest somewhere in Asia, I can't remember the exaact country though. BUt I have not seen it mainstream yet but if it can be a regular tech, available to everyone, that will be great.

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