Using Instant Exchange

[BlackHatCoiner]

You shouldn't be using an exchange as a mixer, I don't know how many times I have to repeat that this month. Exchanges aren't businesses with main scope to make your coins untraceable. Pretty much the opposite. They very much keep track of what's going on, and most are likely to share it with chain analysis companies. There is even a site that lets you search to which exchange an address belongs to: https://www.walletexplorer.com/

If I learn anything from Chipmixer or how mixing companies store their customer's data while they claim the opposite, it is unwise to assume nothing can go wrong at all.

Unless you're somewhat informed beforehand, we don't yet know what information was ChipMixer keeping in their hard drives. It could be anything, from 4k movies to several blockchain full nodes. So, it's just false to argue they were keeping customer's data.

[Kruw]

ChipMixer did not scam their customers

It was confirmed ChipMixer was a scam the entire time, many Bitcointalk users confirmed that their coins were stolen from the keys ChipMixer said they deleted:

~snip~
Even my chips which I had in chipmixer service for which they claimed to "delete private" keys after 7 days or whatever, were seized/transfered.
and these transactions took place good 3 months ago.

It seems that you are right, whoever had vouchers or chips was left without them. I checked some old wallets older than 1 year that only contained chips from CM, and they were all emptied. Yes, it's a bit stupid that I didn't spend them, but honestly I forgot about a few $ in those old wallets. It's really strange that it wasn't all deleted, but now we at least know where even 7GB of data came from.

Can confirm, they stole a chip of mine a friend of mine that he hadn't yet spent. :/ Really fucking bad practice of ChipMixer to keep private keys, not gonna lie.

You shouldn't be using an exchange as a mixer, I don't know how many times I have to repeat that this month. Exchanges aren't businesses with main scope to make your coins untraceable. Pretty much the opposite. They very much keep track of what's going on, and most are likely to share it with chain analysis companies. There is even a site that lets you search to which exchange an address belongs to: https://www.walletexplorer.com/

Mixers aren't businesses with the main scope of making your coins untraceable either, they can keep track of what's going on.  Only coinjoins give you the guarantee of privacy without trusting third parties.

[cryptosize]

If I learn anything from Chipmixer or how mixing companies store their customer's data while they claim the opposite, it is unwise to assume nothing can go wrong at all.

Unless you're somewhat informed beforehand, we don't yet know what information was ChipMixer keeping in their hard drives. It could be anything, from 4k movies to several blockchain full nodes. So, it's just false to argue they were keeping customer's data.

That's confirmation bias at its finest, to put it lightly.

You assume the worst for business A, all while assuming the best for business B. No business is a saint, that's the cold harsh truth.

4k movies? Why not 4k porn? That's a silly argument. We're not talking about Netflix.

[pooya87]

If I learn anything from Chipmixer or how mixing companies store their customer's data while they claim the opposite, it is unwise to assume nothing can go wrong at all.

Unless you're somewhat informed beforehand, we don't yet know what information was ChipMixer keeping in their hard drives. It could be anything, from 4k movies to several blockchain full nodes. So, it's just false to argue they were keeping customer's data.

That's confirmation bias at its finest, to put it lightly.

You assume the worst for business A, all while assuming the best for business B. No business is a saint, that's the cold harsh truth.

4k movies? Why not 4k porn? That's a silly argument. We're not talking about Netflix.

You didn't read the whole thing and the comment @BlackHatCoiner is responding to.
It is one thing to say that business X may have stored customers' data, it is another thing to say business X definitely kept customers' data while we have no proof of that. All we know of ChipMixer is that the mainstream media claimed the authorities have seized the owner's hard disks. The authorities never said what those disks contained. It may have been customers' data or it may have been the indexed bitcoin blockchain for easy searchability.

Besides, anybody who uses a centralized service should already know the risks of them keeping a record or even being a honeypot. Be it ChipMixer or Wasabi centralized coordinator which we know for sure is working with anti privacy companies and actively censoring transactions.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Mixers aren't businesses with the main scope of making your coins untraceable either, they can keep track of what's going on.

The ability to keep track of what's going on doesn't mean they do, it only means there's more trust involved. But, yes, coinjoins and swapping for XMR provide guaranteed privacy, not mixers.

You didn't read the whole thing and the comment @BlackHatCoiner is responding to.

He doesn't care. He's busy trying to prove I'm having confirmation bias, because I had the audacity to call him biased in our local board.

The facts are:
- We can't call anti-privacy a company that was just having 7 TB of unknown data.
- We can't call pro-privacy a company that actively cooperates with chain analysis companies, shares user info and doesn't call itself pro-privacy to begin with.

[Kruw]

Besides, anybody who uses a centralized service should already know the risks of them keeping a record or even being a honeypot. Be it ChipMixer or Wasabi centralized coordinator which we know for sure is working with anti privacy companies and actively censoring transactions.

There are never any risks when using Wasabi because there is no data revealed by users for anyone to keep a record of.  Even if a coordinator is operated by a malicious entity, they cannot deanonymize you or link your transactions together.  Chipmixer is entirely the opposite, they gain complete knowledge and access to all of their users' funds.

[stadus]

I would like to know if i use Instant Exchange https://exch.cx/ and convert my bitcoins to litecoin, will it serve as a mixing too and my coins can't be traced (act as a mixer) ?

Meaning if i do multiple transactions using that Instant Exchange and convert Bitcoin to Litecoin. (The destination address of LTC remains the same in all the transactions )

That could be a mixing but not in a deeper level, but your transactions can be traceable, especially if a particular exchange is obligated to disclose your transaction information on their platform. We have a government agency that oversees this, known as the Anti-Money Laundering Council. So, if you simply desire privacy for mixing and haven't engaged in any illegal activities, that should be sufficient to achieve your purpose.

[eXch]

I would like to know if i use Instant Exchange https://exch.cx/ and convert my bitcoins to litecoin, will it serve as a mixing too and my coins can't be traced (act as a mixer) ?

Meaning if i do multiple transactions using that Instant Exchange and convert Bitcoin to Litecoin. (The destination address of LTC remains the same in all the transactions )

When exchanging non-privacy coins, some transactions on eXch still can be linked by external blockchain analysis, which can be done by correlating time, amount and a fiat equivalent between various chains. Anyway, in practice, this mostly applies to big amounts, while it's very improbable this technique could be efficient on insignificant amounts. We will probably implement an option to split outputs between multiple addresses to prevent these attacks.

It's worth to mention that we don't aggregate UTXOs on single addresses for BTC and LTC, which makes blockchain analysis more complicated to perform.

I recommend to use an MWEB address as a destination in your BTC to LTC exchange to increase your privacy after exchange.

However, eXch absolutely serves for mixing when you exchange some coin to XMR, which is a privacy coin that is proven to be untraceable.


Now, in regards to law enforcement requests:

eXch was built with an idea to make operators identity disclosure practically impossible so the service can be resistant to law enforcement. Operational security was our priority #1 from the first steps of the project creation.

We have very strict data retention policies that can be compared to most mixers on this forum. We do not log IP addresses (having .onion domain is a proof for that) or any other user metadata and delete order database records 15 days after order completion. We also provide users with an option to request data deletion immediately after order completion which can be done by pressing the "Delete data" button at the order's page (you can find more information at https://exch.cx/tos).

Keep in mind that we don't differ from any mixer on this forum in regards to risks associated with unwanted data disclosure, since any mixer is also a centralized entity that uses the same database technology as we do and a single database can become a weak point of any service anytime, independently of how many times their marketing speech repeats the words "privacy" and "anonymity". We don't use these words much and instead we use full disk encryption on all our servers to prevent any unwanted situations as much as possible. An unexplained reboot of some server is a sign that a server was compromised and it's a clear attempt to compromise our LUKS keys with a modified bootloader.

We do not cooperate with law enforcement nor have to do so, since we are an anonymous entity that works with cryptocurrency only. A few events that could serve as a proof:

• A notorious blockchain analysis company SlowMist listed eXch as a mixer after Tornado Cash in their 2023 mid-year report https://www.slowmist.com/report/first-half-of-the-2023-report(EN).pdf because we haven't handled any data to them when they were providing assistance to some law enforcement agency in an investigation. SlowMist is a contractor of many LE agencies and if we were their friends who provide all the data, this is how they would treat us: https://twitter.com/MistTrack_io/status/1699926525229863003 (Nitter link)

In the first half of 2023, users deposited a total of 9,983 ETH (approximately $17.72 million) into eXch, and deposited a total of 6,608,354 ERC20 stablecoins (approximately $6.6 million) into eXch.

(Note: they were only able to gather these statistics on the Ethereum blockchain, since we use a single aggregation address 0xf1da173228fcf015f43f3ea15abbb51f0d8f1123 for all Ethereum & ERC-20 exchange operations)

• We have rejected all the data disclosure requests from LE regarding this particular event - https://twitter.com/MistTrack_io/status/1626786730392305664 (Nitter link) - then the same entity comes back because they know we haven't disclosed anything - https://twitter.com/MistTrack_io/status/1701608380941717938  (Nitter link)
• Rejected to disclose any information to LE regarding this event: https://twitter.com/MistTrack_io/status/1698665043288834502 (Nitter link)
• None of the countless LE requests addressed to us were satisfied since our platform launch, because we know what we are doing and why we are here

We also have sufficient technical capabilities to mitigate DDoS attacks without recurring to Cloudflare, DDoS-Guard or any other third-party reverse proxy servers, which is something that most mixers on this forum don't or can't do.



Nevertheless, when some users ask us questions regarding BTC mixing in our support ticketing system, we always forward them to appropriate non-custodial CoinJoin solutions available on the market that we used ourselves in the past and that are proven to be the safest alternative to custodial mixers.

[Kruw]

I recommend to use an MWEB address as a destination in your BTC to LTC exchange to increase your privacy after exchange.

Do you offer MWEB deposit addresses for LTC?

Nevertheless, when some users ask us questions regarding BTC mixing in our support ticketing system, we always forward them to appropriate non-custodial CoinJoin solutions available on the market that we used ourselves in the past and that are proven to be the safest alternative to custodial mixers.

Thank you for the thorough response.

[eXch]

I recommend to use an MWEB address as a destination in your BTC to LTC exchange to increase your privacy after exchange.

Do you offer MWEB deposit addresses for LTC?

Not yet, but we would like to provide a such option and eventually will. The only reason why we don't yet is a current version of Litecoin Core having serious issues with MWEB accounting and considerable development inactivity. We will have to wait at least for a next Litecoin Core release to add MWEB deposit addresses. For now we only provide ability to use MWEB addresses for receiving coins from eXch.

[cryptosize]

It is one thing to say that business X may have stored customers' data, it is another thing to say business X definitely kept customers' data while we have no proof of that. All we know of ChipMixer is that the mainstream media claimed the authorities have seized the owner's hard disks. The authorities never said what those disks contained. It may have been customers' data or it may have been the indexed bitcoin blockchain for easy searchability.

Or it may have been 4k movies (like Angelo claims)? Is that a serious argument?

There's a higher chance (never said 100%) of keeping customer data (especially if it's a honeypot), rather than keeping worthless 4k movies (we're not talking about Netflix, that's pretty much obvious).

Selling data is the new goldmine for many companies. I thought that was common sense.

Besides, anybody who uses a centralized service should already know the risks of them keeping a record or even being a honeypot. Be it ChipMixer or Wasabi centralized coordinator which we know for sure is working with anti privacy companies and actively censoring transactions.

I agree with that. Government honeypots have existed for a long time.

Centralized services (mixers, CEX) will always be shady by their own nature, so people shouldn't trust them too much.

Saying "mixers are good, CEX are bad" is the very definition of being biased, especially when you make money from shilling them.

I would say the same if someone appeared with a CEX banner and tried to shill that business.

He doesn't care. He's busy trying to prove I'm having confirmation bias, because I had the audacity to call him biased in our local board.

Angelo, come the fuck on, you have confessed to me personally that you visit this board (even making worthless shitposting just to raise your post count!) to advertise shady centralized mixer services and you call me biased?

I don't visit this board to make money and you know it. I only visit forums for discussion, unlike you.

Aren't you biased? Don't you have a conflict of interest?

Be honest, you made $1500/month via ChipMixer. Don't make me post screenshots.

I have made $0 from forums. I don't mind if you make money, as long as you don't have the audacity to call me biased, even though you're biased and I explained why.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Or it may have been 4k movies (like Angelo claims)? Is that a serious argument?

It's as serious as claiming that 7 TB is log. What were they logging anyway? Transactions? The blockchain, which contains them all, is less than a terabyte. Unless ChipMixer was a data center, which is as probable as being just an ordinary person with 7 TB of personal stuff.

Angelo, come the fuck on, you have confessed to me personally that you visit this board (even making worthless shitposting just to raise your post count!) to advertise shady centralized mixer services and you call me biased?

I don't remember shit of what I've talked with you about, we were exchanging messages for like a dozen of times a day once. The fact that you want to doxx me (by publishing my private messages) to prove a point says a lot.

Aren't you biased? Don't you have a conflict of interest?

Everyone's biased to an extent. That's all I can admit.

[cryptosize]

It's as serious as claiming that 7 TB is log. What were they logging anyway? Transactions? The blockchain, which contains them all, is less than a terabyte. Unless ChipMixer was a data center, which is as probable as being just an ordinary person with 7 TB of personal stuff.

No, it's definitely not an ordinary person with 7TB of porn/movies, but it could have been a honeypot.

Angelo, come the fuck on, you have confessed to me personally that you visit this board (even making worthless shitposting just to raise your post count!) to advertise shady centralized mixer services and you call me biased?

I don't remember shit of what I've talked with you about, we were exchanging messages for like a dozen of times a day once. The fact that you want to doxx me (by publishing my private messages) to prove a point says a lot.

Don't play dumb to me and don't victimize yourself (I'm not doxxing anything). You provided info with your own consent.

You will definitely "remember" if I find those messages and translate them (I don't wanna do it, but I will be forced to do it, if you keep insinuating I'm a liar). You've told me that you love arguing/making shitposts (even with Franky) just to increase your post count and your merit.

I get it, you need to have a high post count/merit to make money on this forum via signature campaigns.

Nothing wrong with making money in capitalism, as long as you don't portray yourself in a sanctimonious manner ("innocent, unbiased victim of doxxing").

Aren't you biased? Don't you have a conflict of interest?

Everyone's biased to an extent. That's all I can admit.

That's a fair answer that I will accept and end it here. Maybe then you shouldn't start calling others biased, unless you're unbiased yourself in the first place.

[virasog]

Besides, anybody who uses a centralized service should already know the risks of them keeping a record or even being a honeypot. Be it ChipMixer or Wasabi centralized coordinator which we know for sure is working with anti privacy companies and actively censoring transactions.

There are never any risks when using Wasabi because there is no data revealed by users for anyone to keep a record of.  Even if a coordinator is operated by a malicious entity, they cannot deanonymize you or link your transactions together.  Chipmixer is entirely the opposite, they gain complete knowledge and access to all of their users' funds.

We all know that you are promoting Wasabi Wallet and for that purpose, you will try to prove Chipmixer and other mixing services as scam (When they are not).  

That could be a mixing but not in a deeper level, but your transactions can be traceable, especially if a particular exchange is obligated to disclose your transaction information on their platform. We have a government agency that oversees this, known as the Anti-Money Laundering Council. So, if you simply desire privacy for mixing and haven't engaged in any illegal activities, that should be sufficient to achieve your purpose.

So if he uses exch.cx or any instant exchange and convert his money into XMR, then i think he is more secure and even the blockchain analysis companies won't be able to figure out much as once the coins are converted to XMR, then to trace it further becomes impossible.

[dkbit98]

However, eXch absolutely serves for mixing when you exchange some coin to XMR, which is a privacy coin that is proven to be untraceable.

Small problem is that you aka eXch don't always have XMR available in reserves for exchanging with other coins  
Some people reported this back to me several times and I confirmed it, but I think even Binance exchange had liquidity issues with that specific coin.

[eXch]

However, eXch absolutely serves for mixing when you exchange some coin to XMR, which is a privacy coin that is proven to be untraceable.

Small problem is that you aka eXch don't always have XMR available in reserves for exchanging with other coins  
Some people reported this back to me several times and I confirmed it, but I think even Binance exchange had liquidity issues with that specific coin.

There is not much we can do about it because even when we have 5000 XMR it gets sold within an hour or two. There are some people that are monitoring our XMR balance with scripts via API to receive notifications when it's up then come and buy it all. However this problem (which is not really a problem) will get some workarounds eventually.

Also, it's possible to backorder XMR on eXch. What some of our users do while no XMR reserves are available is creating and funding an order so it gets executed in a first place when XMR reserves reappear with sufficient balance to cover their order. Usually backorders get executed in less than 24 hours, because we get constant movement in the XMR wallet. Backorders are also a reason for our XMR balance to be reported as zero, because when backorders are present and there are some XMR they will appear unavailable due to amount reservation in our system.

[dkbit98]

There is not much we can do about it because even when we have 5000 XMR it gets sold within an hour or two. There are some people that are monitoring our XMR balance with scripts via API to receive notifications when it's up then come and buy it all. However this problem (which is not really a problem) will get some workarounds eventually.

Is it possible that some big centralized exchanges are buying coins from eXch?
I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, but I noticed other coins can also dry out sometimes , for example there is not a lot of Bitcoin at the moment ^{(a bit more than 0.92 BTC)}.
At least we can see balance of reserves, that is impossible with big exchanges, so it appears like they always have them even if they don't.

Also, it's possible to backorder XMR on eXch. What some of our users do while no XMR reserves are available is creating and funding an order so it gets executed in a first place when XMR reserves reappear with sufficient balance to cover their order.

Sounds good.