On Apple's $200 billion dump and US shooting itself in the foot

[pooya87]

https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-200-billion-drop-sign-post-us-tech-future-near-2023-9

The biggest mistake any decision makers in any country can make these days is not realizing the World Order has already changed and to fail to adapt to the New World Order as quickly as possible.

The most obvious example in United States that is still clinging to the Old World Order, desperately trying to remain the solo hegemony in today's multi-polar world.
Of course this change didn't happen overnight, the World Order has been transitioning for many years while many have been pushing US over the edge and down to the pit. But in my opinion the last nails in that coffin were put there by the US regime itself and out of pure stupidity, specially in the previous two administrations.

For example take the trade war with China that started on January 2018. Before that the Chinese companies didn't feel threatened enough to ever bother to start R&D of high tech stuff since they could freely import them from US manufacturers. So China remained dependent on United States.
But as the US regime kept "sanctioning" China, China started going domestic. Now for example the Chinese smart phone companies are manufacturing microchips (that they used to import) domestically.

Here is the problem, this move not only creates a serious and super cheap competition in global markets against American products that can easily replace them and devastate those companies, but also it now gives China the capability to strike back which brings us to the recent "sanctions" China placed on US, restricting usage of iPhones in China. The result? Apple got dumped $200 billion in a blinking of a eye.
It doesn't stop there, we have already seen over the past year+ the worsening US recession is also hurting the Silicon Valley and the tech sector as its first and biggest victim with banks that keep on collapsing.

This signals the start of a new era where tech giants are no longer going to be American. Meanwhile tech is not the only field and China is not the only country US keeps sanctioning...

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[Faisal2202]

You have shared great news, but I doubt if it is new. I mean, of course, the news is of September 9, but what I meant here is the riot between China and the US. China has banned the usage of a lot of US products and ad services in its country, like social media apps. We cannot access YouTube, WhatsApp, etc. directly. Even if they have their own search engine, I think that's Baidu.

I said in the first line that the news might be old because one of my professors told us a few days ago that China has not allowed the usage of iPhones there. That's why I thought it might be old, but maybe the ban is from way back when, but the data released yesterday about how much they lost

Well, coming back to the losses, I do not really think the US will suffocate from such losses. I mean, that's not that big, but yeah, I totally agree with your point that the US is not the only tech nation here. But sometimes I wonder if the biggest wonders, like all the domains, are mentioned by them. They knew almost everything (in some conditions) one was searching for. We are basically using their product, knowingly or unknowingly. I always wonder, as a citizen of my country, if we could make some cool innovations that would make us independent of them. But I am not a good developer, and I hope someone else will do it.

[EarnOnVictor]

I'm simply not surprised by the OP's anti-US tone, I think I'm used to it now, and what I know is that the US will always bounce back. "Bet against the US in the long run and you regret it." China has grown nerves now, thanks to their cheap and substandard products and the poverty in the world that makes such products lucrative.

Nevertheless, what I will agree with you is that the world's order is changing, perhaps I should say, it's trying to change, but can this attempt truly effect the change? That is another question you might not be sincere about yet. I read with surprise how you seemed to give China a Kudos of the 2018 trade war. What I know as a trader myself because I follow it was that the winner of the trade war during Trump's era is the US, and it's obvious.

As for the main subject matter, what I see in the issue of Apple losing $200B so fast is my initial fear of China. China has betrayed another relationship and is merely selfish here, a backstabber, and using its economic strength that has not been held for as much as the US does to dominate. This is just an economic sabotage in which a country because others have helped you develop, you just woke up one day and wanted to take everything all to yourself.

Despite the riches of China, what contribution do they have in the world when it comes to financial aid, global research, disease control, climate change, reasonable lending, true leadership and many more? I've seen China as a country that has nothing to offer the world but only China. What happened is an attestation to it, but the anti-US mindsets will not let people see it. If it were to be China that was in the place of the US for these centuries, they would have shown their tyranny and monopoly in full to the world and would have cautioned the development of other countries because they will always want to be in control and have it all.

This is a wake-up call for the US and the US companies, they shouldn't be too trusting, leaving your country to develop another country's economy to build them strong. This news only caught the market by surprise, and as you can see, Apple's shares are recovering gradually till Friday. In all, I see this as a challenge to the US and I would rather sympathise with them than mock them.

[philipma1957]

I blame rich mother fuckers all over the wolrd.

This shit has gone on for thousands of years and will continue on.

The who has a song with these lyrics in it

“meet the new boss same as the old boss…”

the issue is people that push and struggle hard to be a big boss are basically assholes.

american 🇺🇸

china 🇨🇳

russia 🇷🇺

england 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

all the leaders are mostly assholes that wanted power and fought to be a boss.

so we need to keep this in mind.

[pooya87]

You have shared great news, but I doubt if it is new.

It is a couple of days old but it is new and I wouldn't call it "great news", it's just one of the changes in the current chaotic world. Not to mention that China is not that different from US.

Well, coming back to the losses, I do not really think the US will suffocate from such losses.

Of course not, US economy is too big to "suffocate" from such a small thing. Not to mention that the Apple dump could even be recovered at some point in the near future. But this is becoming a regular thing, like a momentum and these dumps are accumulating in different fields. In other words the case of Apple dump is an example and it shows the high degree of vulnerability that US economy has in facing sanctions.
It's not going to be overnight either, like the dedollarisation. Dollar that once was used in 80-90% of the international trades, it is now barely reaching half of them as countries continue dumping it.

I always wonder, as a citizen of my country, if we could make some cool innovations that would make us independent of them. But I am not a good developer, and I hope someone else will do it.

There is a popular saying that necessity is mother of invention. As I explained in OP, Chinese companies weren't manufacturing microchips until the were forced to.

I'm simply not surprised by the OP's anti-US tone,

Sorry you didn't like my tone, feel free to read the businessinsider article, it is saying pretty much the same thing.

China has grown nerves now, thanks to their cheap and substandard products and the poverty in the world that makes such products lucrative.

It's not all cheap and substandard. In fact I see Chinese economy as a very genius one that sees the "demand" in the world and creates the appropriate "supply" for it at cheap production cost. The reason why a lot of their products are substandard is because that's what their customers want.
If you check out the population of the biggest trade partners of China (US, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan in descending order of trade size), these countries have large number of middle and lower class citizens who are living hand to mouth and prefer affordable products. So that's what China manufactures.

But that's not all China manufactures, in other fields and products you can find top quality competitive products too. Off the top of my head their car industry which is at this point manufacturing competitive vehicles which some speculate is going to put a lot of big names out of business in the near future.

Nevertheless, what I will agree with you is that the world's order is changing, perhaps I should say, it's trying to change, but can this attempt truly effect the change? That is another question you might not be sincere about yet. I read with surprise how you seemed to give China a Kudos of the 2018 trade war. What I know as a trader myself because I follow it was that the winner of the trade war during Trump's era is the US, and it's obvious.

I didn't give "Kudos to China" and I disagree. That war has not ended yet to call its winner and also to this point there has been no winners. Both sides are still fighting and both sides are hurting in different ways. For example Chinese economy in certain places has gone bankrupt and some private companies were literally swallowed by the government to keep them afloat.
The difference between China and US is that China is fighting US while US is fighting majority of the world.

China has betrayed another relationship and is merely selfish here, a backstabber, and using its economic strength that has not been held for as much as the US does to dominate. This is just an economic sabotage in which a country because others have helped you develop, you just woke up one day and wanted to take everything all to yourself.

Thanks for putting it this way specially using these terms because US did the same exact thing to China in a large number of relationships. From Huawei only because it was manufactured in China to the recent sanctions on numerous Chinese companies just because BlackRock wanted to invest in them.

In other words my tone is not anti-US, I'm simply calling out sabotage, back-stabs, betrayals, and a lot of other shenanigans United States has been pulling on the rest of the world. Otherwise it's double standard

[DaveF]

So the Chinese government wants to expand the ban more of the use of iPhones to government-backed agencies and companies.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/07/investing/apple-stock-iphone-china-ban/index.html

This coming after apple decided to drag their feet on fixing a bunch of available exploits:
https://www.helpnetsecurity.com/2023/09/08/cve-2023-41064-cve-2023-41061/

On top of the ones that they fixed in July after months of them being exploited
https://thehackernews.com/2023/07/apple-issues-urgent-patch-for-zero-day.html

On top of all the other ones out there:
https://stack.watch/product/apple/iphone-os/
https://www.bitdefender.com/blog/hotforsecurity/apple-patches-first-zero-day-flaw-reported-in-2023-on-ios-and-macos/

I wonder why the Chinese government would want a home grown solution that they have more control of.

You can point a lot of legit fingers back at Apple as this being their fault. For DECADES they have touted security on their computers and for close to 15 years now on how much more secure their phones are then android.
But in the end, they are still very vulnerable. AND with the constant denials about issues things are starting to come back to bite them in the a$$.

No politics, not 'global economy' BS
Yes, the Chinese government can use the situation for this, but in the end more and more security people are ditching their iPhones and Apple devices in general because of the constant barrage of security problems in a closed source device.

-Dave

[Captain Corporate]

I agree that competition will bring USA down a bit, but I doubt that it would be anything that would be too sustainable and long term. Maybe Apple will not make as much money as it used to, but that doesn't make them any less powerful, nor any other USA based company that was already big. This makes them smaller, but still bigger than most. If you want to buy a phone today, and you have enough money to buy anything you want, would you buy a Chinese phone, or Apple? They are just a cheap alternative to people who can't afford apple, and even with that way too many people still prefer Apple even if that means they go into debt. I think its a thing that's happening right now, but not as big as what it seems.

[Upgrade00]

No world order lasts forever, not the Roman empire, not the British empire and not the U.S. All empires eventually get replaced with something fresh and different, although in reality they are all the same and they all seek the same things; power and control.

The U.S and the dollar has taken huge hits over the past few years but they are still a long way from being overthrown with BRICS posing s bigger threat than it did before. These other economies are not immune to hurdles too and will also take hits in the quest to changed the world order.

[DrBeer]

It is very "logical" to pass off the problem of a single, individual PRIVATE company, at the expense of regulatory bans, and think it is a US problem
So some index fell by some amount for some company, but China continues to accumulate US government bonds, in order to get and use more dollars, supporting the value of the dollar and the US economy.
Private business and the economy of a country are quite different entities

[Casdinyard]

Point taken. In my opinion the US has been very complacent over the years, power drunk from the fact that no other country in the past was able to keep up with it despite the predictions that China could outgrow it in the future. This led them to sanction and dismiss every other "third world country" beyond the US borders as something inferior to them, which definitely struck them back with overwhelming force. Japan has done this to them in the past with the monopoly of Japanese tech products taking over the US consumer base, they weren't able to understand and look introspectively into this for some reason and now they are suffering the consequences, and right during one of their worst economic situations yet too. It's time that we see another Superpower to the table. maybe give the US a reality check that capitalism doesn't breed competition anymore, it's breeding oligarchy and the death of commerce.

[philipma1957]

Point taken. In my opinion the US has been very complacent over the years, power drunk from the fact that no other country in the past was able to keep up with it despite the predictions that China could outgrow it in the future. This led them to sanction and dismiss every other "third world country" beyond the US borders as something inferior to them, which definitely struck them back with overwhelming force. Japan has done this to them in the past with the monopoly of Japanese tech products taking over the US consumer base, they weren't able to understand and look introspectively into this for some reason and now they are suffering the consequences, and right during one of their worst economic situations yet too. It's time that we see another Superpower to the table. maybe give the US a reality check that capitalism doesn't breed competition anymore, it's breeding oligarchy and the death of commerce.

Its not capitalism USA practices "favored son" to the business it likes and fuck you to the ones it does not like.

Politics cause all kinds of fucked up shit and crazy ruthless businesses go right along with them.

One example is  how badly ge fucked philco over tv patents .

Or how the Facebook guy first fucked the winklevoss twins and then fucked his own partner it is amazing that the US does any legit shit at all.

[serveria.com]

https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-200-billion-drop-sign-post-us-tech-future-near-2023-9

The biggest mistake any decision makers in any country can make these days is not realizing the World Order has already changed and to fail to adapt to the New World Order as quickly as possible.

The most obvious example in United States that is still clinging to the Old World Order, desperately trying to remain the solo hegemony in today's multi-polar world.
Of course this change didn't happen overnight, the World Order has been transitioning for many years while many have been pushing US over the edge and down to the pit. But in my opinion the last nails in that coffin were put there by the US regime itself and out of pure stupidity, specially in the previous two administrations.

For example take the trade war with China that started on January 2018. Before that the Chinese companies didn't feel threatened enough to ever bother to start R&D of high tech stuff since they could freely import them from US manufacturers. So China remained dependent on United States.
But as the US regime kept "sanctioning" China, China started going domestic. Now for example the Chinese smart phone companies are manufacturing microchips (that they used to import) domestically.

Here is the problem, this move not only creates a serious and super cheap competition in global markets against American products that can easily replace them and devastate those companies, but also it now gives China the capability to strike back which brings us to the recent "sanctions" China placed on US, restricting usage of iPhones in China. The result? Apple got dumped $200 billion in a blinking of a eye.
It doesn't stop there, we have already seen over the past year+ the worsening US recession is also hurting the Silicon Valley and the tech sector as its first and biggest victim with banks that keep on collapsing.

This signals the start of a new era where tech giants are no longer going to be American. Meanwhile tech is not the only field and China is not the only country US keeps sanctioning...

Another proof that the US should stop playing the "global policeman", introduce sanctions against countries and use USD for punitive purposes. Or in other words they should stop pretending they're an empire and start solving real problems like poverty, homelessness, crime etc.

[tread93]

You have shared great news, but I doubt if it is new. I mean, of course, the news is of September 9, but what I meant here is the riot between China and the US. China has banned the usage of a lot of US products and ad services in its country, like social media apps. We cannot access YouTube, WhatsApp, etc. directly. Even if they have their own search engine, I think that's Baidu.

I said in the first line that the news might be old because one of my professors told us a few days ago that China has not allowed the usage of iPhones there. That's why I thought it might be old, but maybe the ban is from way back when, but the data released yesterday about how much they lost

Well, coming back to the losses, I do not really think the US will suffocate from such losses. I mean, that's not that big, but yeah, I totally agree with your point that the US is not the only tech nation here. But sometimes I wonder if the biggest wonders, like all the domains, are mentioned by them. They knew almost everything (in some conditions) one was searching for. We are basically using their product, knowingly or unknowingly. I always wonder, as a citizen of my country, if we could make some cool innovations that would make us independent of them. But I am not a good developer, and I hope someone else will do it.

China is next level dictatorship I feel like just in the worst way. If anyone needs BTC right now it's them, I would also add an invisible cloak to that list!!

[n00ber]

This is normal when China bans the use of iPhones for government-backed agencies and companies. The reason they gave was national security concerns. We have seen the US stifle important Chinese phone company Huawei for the same reason.
Come up with a hypothesis that if China bans its people from using it and stops companies from manufacturing in their country, Apple cannot die. They only lost part of it. That means they are challenging America. I believe they are not strong enough to resist the sanctions that the US will respond to. But looking back, US production now depends heavily on goods from China. This is also their dilemma.

[dothebeats]

Well, China and the US have been at each other's throats for a while in some ways now. However, it is true that recently US has been getting a lot of blows that are setting them up for a major disaster. And now I know some will say that it will take much much more than these blows to take the US down but that is not the main point, it's the fact that it's been happening a lot recently and it is slowly pushing the US to its vulnerable state. Of course it will take years to take the US down (why is this even a goal anyway) but the percentage of it possibly happening is already a red flag for that empire.

[pooya87]

It is very "logical" to pass off the problem of a single, individual PRIVATE company, at the expense of regulatory bans, and think it is a US problem

It's typical of you to only take out a small point in a whole topic and try to change the subject.
You have forgotten that 7 months ago in the topic about "Economic implications of a US-China-Taiwan conflict" all the arguments were China's inability to build any decent microchips and some even suggested that there is to "engineering talent" in China to do so.
Now that China is manufacturing high tech chips, of course you want to focus on Apple...

Come up with a hypothesis that if China bans its people from using it and stops companies from manufacturing in their country, Apple cannot die. They only lost part of it. That means they are challenging America.

That's true but the point is that this is not the only case and it is not just China. The economic war between US and China has been going on and China is giving as much as it gets. A lot of other countries are taking actions from dedollarisation to decreasing imports from US that is hurting US economy. For example Iran jut banned the new iPhones in the country too and that's a $6 billion market.

Another point I'd like to make is that the US debt based economy is weaker and a lot more vulnerable than the Chinese production based economy. The only reason why the effects of all these things on US economy hasn't been catastrophic yet is the huge interest rate with constant money printing and exporting inflation.
In simple terms US has turned its economy into a Ponzi scheme where they create debt and sell it to Europe and countries like Japan so that this way they can keep their own economy artificially alive and hope to go back to the Old World Order to revive it for real.

[slapper]

It seems that certain nations are unable to move on from their history. In fact, don't you believe the US is scoring quite a few points if we're playing "Let's shoot ourselves in the foot"?

Being a tech pioneer ought to teach one a thing or two about innovation and adaptation, right? However, here we are. China? Fuck it, they simply watched the show while relaxing and asked themselves, "Why not fill the void?" They are now producing their own tech items and even issuing their own fines as a result of certain wise moves. Hey, though, why should the US be worried? Apple only lost $200 billion as a result. Really, it's just pennies

I've always believed that if you give someone enough rope, they'll either climb to new heights or hang themselves. For prior administrations, the decision was straightforward. It's a shame, really. I had such high hopes

[DrBeer]

It is very "logical" to pass off the problem of a single, individual PRIVATE company, at the expense of regulatory bans, and think it is a US problem

It's typical of you to only take out a small point in a whole topic and try to change the subject.
You have forgotten that 7 months ago in the topic about "Economic implications of a US-China-Taiwan conflict" all the arguments were China's inability to build any decent microchips and some even suggested that there is to "engineering talent" in China to do so.
Now that China is manufacturing high tech chips, of course you want to focus on Apple...

Don't make it your habit to put your fantasies in my mouth and twist my words in a way that favors you
1. I said that "China's technological greatness" is a consequence of western investment and their technology and their EQUIPMENT.
2. I was saying that the west has drastically reduced the supply of technology to China, which will negatively impact this sector of the Chinese economy.
Moreover, the US is moving high-tech production, for example Apple is moving its assembly to a more adequate and promising country - India )
The US is banning the training of specialists from China in advanced technological educational institutions.
3. "Ban of iPhone in China for civil servants" - this is not a technological breakthrough of China, it is just restrictions for some group of buyers.

[MusaMohamed]

This short video is interesting and reflects a fact.

The Newsroom - America is not the greatest country in the world anymore. (explicit)

The first steop in solving any problem is recognizing there is one - America is not the greatest country in the world anymore.

I quoted because it's fact and even it is a comedy, it is insightful. I am unsure the White House, the USA. Congress and politicians there recognized this fact or not. If they recognized it, it is a first great step to make their America great again. Else, did not recognize it, fail to recognize it in future, they will lose their leading position.

[philipma1957]

I agree that competition will bring USA down a bit, but I doubt that it would be anything that would be too sustainable and long term. Maybe Apple will not make as much money as it used to, but that doesn't make them any less powerful, nor any other USA based company that was already big. This makes them smaller, but still bigger than most. If you want to buy a phone today, and you have enough money to buy anything you want, would you buy a Chinese phone, or Apple? They are just a cheap alternative to people who can't afford apple, and even with that way too many people still prefer Apple even if that means they go into debt. I think its a thing that's happening right now, but not as big as what it seems.

I buy a samsung. No one should buy an iPhone and I am glad apple took a hit on this.  They have become a true disgrace to their original we are not the man image.

Every day I listen to the news hoping to hear about another country hurting apple and their bs gear.

BTW I own six Mac mini's and 2 iPads
 but all samsung phones.