Looking for testers of our better Bitcoin wallet

[jjopus]

Hi!

We're building a better Bitcoin wallet with simpler payments and effortless security out of the box. Think Venmo for Bitcoin. We want to make Bitcoin more accessible and easier to use, and are looking for people to test and give us feedback. We'll pay you in Bitcoin.


Features:
- Sending, easy as a text: Make instant payments straight to your phone contacts, whether they use the app or not
- Private payments: Each payment creates a new single-use address, so even on-chain activity can't be linked, ensuring your privacy.
- Secure by default: Multiple backups have you covered, with more recovery methods like social recovery in development.
- Despite being easier to use, it's completely non-custodial


Who we are:
We're on a mission to empower everyone with true control over their wealth and payments by making crypto easy to use, safe, and affordable for all. Our team has worked on and founded some of the bigger projects in the space.


How to participate:
- Must have an iPhone (Testflight-based for now)
- I'll transfer $20 in Bitcoin to get you started, along with the app download link, you can keep the Bitcoin.
- All we ask for is your candid feedback and answers to a few questions.

If you're interested, let me know!

[LoyceV]

We'll pay you in Bitcoin.

You should post this on the Services board.

We're building a better Bitcoin wallet with simpler payments and effortless security out of the box.

It sounds like you're planning to create a custodial wallet. That goes against everything Bitcoin stands for, and handing over private keys to someone else is the opposite of "security".

- Sending, easy as a text: Make instant payments straight to your phone contacts, whether they use the app or not

Whatever you're sending, it's not Bitcoin. Unless you're sending funded private keys, but that would be terribly insecure.

- Private payments: Each payment creates a new single-use address, so even on-chain activity can't be linked, ensuring your privacy.

There are no "single-use addresses" in Bitcoin. You can choose to use each address only once though. And transactions can still be linked on-chain, even if you use each address only once.

- Secure by default: Multiple backups have you covered, with more recovery methods like social recovery in development.

"Social recovery" is terribly risky. Backup your private key or seed phrase, and be your own bank. That's how you backup Bitcoin.

- Despite being easier to use, it's completely non-custodial

Why didn't you start with this? I have a really hard time believing you can do non-custodial social recoveries, so please start by explaining the technical details.

Our team has worked on and founded some of the bigger projects in the space.

Which projects? Please provide evidence.

[jjopus]

Thanks for your reponse Loyce!

It sounds like you're planning to create a custodial wallet. That goes against everything Bitcoin stands for, and handing over private keys to someone else is the opposite of "security".

No private keys ever touch our servers. While we do enable you to make different types of encrypted backups, such as on your keychain or using social recovery. But these are opt in.

Whatever you're sending, it's not Bitcoin. Unless you're sending funded private keys, but that would be terribly insecure.

It's Bitcoin. Though you're right: when you send to someone not on the app yet, you're sending a payment link with a pre-funded private key. It's swept immediately upon onboarding.

There are no "single-use addresses" in Bitcoin. You can choose to use each address only once though. And transactions can still be linked on-chain, even if you use each address only once.

It's an implementation of Stealth addresses. It derives a single-use private key based on the shared secret, recipient's diffie-hellman public key, and recipient's root public key. And a single-use private key based on the shared secret, recipient's diffie-hellman private key, and recipient's root private key.

"Social recovery" is terribly risky. Backup your private key or seed phrase, and be your own bank. That's how you backup Bitcoin.

You're right it's not a silver bullet, but it could be a good option for some people. We'll offer different recovery methods, both "single player" and "multiplayer" like social recovery.

Why didn't you start with this? I have a really hard time believing you can do non-custodial social recoveries, so please start by explaining the technical details.

This is not live, but our latest design is: Encrypt private key with recovery contact's public key. Store on your Keychain (using iOS in this example). To recover, you need access to your Keychain and the approval of your recovery contact in the app. We also have a version using email, where the key is split among your recovery contacts and encrypted with a code emailed to you.

Let me know if you want to give it a try!

[LoyceV]

Let me know if you want to give it a try!

I don't easily install software on phones, so I won't try it. But I must admit it sounds more promising than I initially expected.

[jjopus]

Let me know if you want to give it a try!

I don't easily install software on phones, so I won't try it. But I must admit it sounds more promising than I initially expected.

Ok, some day hopefully 

[Bitcoin_Arena]

Hi!

We're building a better Bitcoin wallet

First things first, by building a better Bitcoin wallet. I assume your wallet's source code is publically available?

We want to make Bitcoin more accessible and easier to use, and are looking for people to test and give us feedback. We'll pay you in Bitcoin.

Unfortunately no iOS here, let me know when support android, Linux or Windows

Try moving this thread to service board. You might get some testers there who have iOS.

[Joeyp]

Do not waste your time with this Bitcoin mobile wallet. There are a lot of various developed mobile wallets already. Even if you make it, you can not promote it, advertising costs a lot of Bitcoins.

[dkbit98]

- Private payments: Each payment creates a new single-use address, so even on-chain activity can't be linked, ensuring your privacy.

Since when is this called private payments?
Most bitcoin wallets are already generating new addresses that are not directly connected with older addresses.

If you're interested, let me know!

I don't own an iPhone, but I would be interested in testing this wallet on Android devices if you ever release it.

[joniboini]

- Must have an iPhone (Testflight-based for now)

I have a Mac with Xdeveloper tools installed. I run many iOS apps like games on it. Not sure if it is ideal for testing ground either but I can help if you're interested in this. Since you offered a payment, I think you should move the thread to another board as suggested above.

To recover, you need access to your Keychain and the approval of your recovery contact in the app. We also have a version using email, where the key is split among your recovery contacts and encrypted with a code emailed to you

So basically it relies on our contacts or e-mails to do this social recovery? If I don't have any trusted persons, won't this be useless? Sure I can make and manage e-mails on my own, but it would be troublesome and the risk would be high. CMIIW.

[hugeblack]

It's an implementation of Stealth addresses. It derives a single-use private key based on the shared secret, recipient's diffie-hellman public key, and recipient's root public key. And a single-use private key based on the shared secret, recipient's diffie-hellman private key, and recipient's root private key.

This sounds exciting, but in this case the meta-address must be shared between the two parties after the first one derives a single-use private key, so how will it be shared? Will it be through the application or will an additional encryption layer be provided to exchange meta-address/secret?

It's true that this will enhance privacy but other data like transaction fees and transaction broadcasts are shared publicly so without solutions like Ring Signatures, and RingCT I don't think you'll get good privacy.

But AFAIK, I do not think that there is a wallet that applies the concept of Stealth addresses.

- Sending, easy as a text: Make instant payments straight to your phone contacts, whether they use the app or not

If you were to use Stealth addresses here, this would add additional complexity, as the user would need to download your application. Otherwise, anyone can receive Bitcoin, they just need to generate a Bitcoin address in any way.

You're right it's not a silver bullet, but it could be a good option for some people. We'll offer different recovery methods, both "single player" and "multiplayer" like social recovery.

I see that you are trying to apply Vitalik Ethereum concepts to Bitcoin wallet. Social recovery is one of the solutions proposed by Vitalik Buterin^[1], although I am not convinced that it is implemented well.

Perhaps developing an open source Android app might help us a little in trying it out.


[1] https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/01/11/recovery.html

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

- Sending, easy as a text: Make instant payments straight to your phone contacts, whether they use the app or not
- Private payments: Each payment creates a new single-use address, so even on-chain activity can't be linked, ensuring your privacy.

While it's already known that a coin control can easily create single-use address, my concern about privacy is in phone contacts.

It seems the transaction will associate phone contacts to phone contacts which means the privacy is exposed. I don't want my BTC transactions associated with even email address but you are asking me to associate it with my phone number?