Are Technical Indicators useless?

[joniboini]

While some months i've learned how to code Pine Script on Tradingview and backtest with it. But i can't get good results even if many combination of indicators.    When i look at past data manually, it works smoothly but this data retrospective and indicators can't drawn in future.

So you backtest your trading method and it works better compared to recent trades, or did you manually test each indicator on past data? Which combination you've done so far? What are your order settings? Maybe people can help you better if we know the exact trading algorithm/settings that you use. Using too many indicators can give you extra trouble since some of them can be contradictory.

That being said, you should not expect a consistent success rate if your data sources are not comparable. Like, if you compare the backtest to short-term trading, it is likely that the result would look horrible as mentioned above. CMIIW.

[awik p]

Trading is basically done with market analysis, so if you don’t do the basics and just trade along with the indicators then no one can save you from getting into losses.

No hasty trading because hasty trading is likely to put one in trouble. So you have to do analysis of what your indicators are telling you against the market and you watch different time frame too, candles are also good for a good understanding of the market. Basically you have to understand the market using simple indicators to analyze the market so that you can ride it easily. But jumping in without proper analysis, you can't be lucky all the time.

Basically, the indicators that we master can help our trading, but not all signals displayed by the indicators will always be correct, therefore we must be able to know them and take action to save our trading. Sometimes in one trade you combine several indicators, but if you use many indicators, it will actually make it difficult for us, because not all indicators will display the same signal. Therefore, by studying the characteristics of indicators and not breaking the rules regarding what we understand in terms of their strengths and weaknesses, indicators can help us

[algoBoi]

While some months i've learned how to code Pine Script on Tradingview and backtest with it. But i can't get good results even if many combination of indicators.    When i look at past data manually, it works smoothly but this data retrospective and indicators can't drawn in future.

So you backtest your trading method and it works better compared to recent trades, or did you manually test each indicator on past data? Which combination you've done so far? What are your order settings? Maybe people can help you better if we know the exact trading algorithm/settings that you use. Using too many indicators can give you extra trouble since some of them can be contradictory.

That being said, you should not expect a consistent success rate if your data sources are not comparable. Like, if you compare the backtest to short-term trading, it is likely that the result would look horrible as mentioned above. CMIIW.

Actually i was looking for a backtest tool and then i found an algo-trade platform which includes free backtest tool. I had to set some basic strategy on this website's interface to test indicators.
A few type of strategy on my mind. One of them, buy when drops.

Let's start with simple one. When price down of BollingerBands(30,3,low) lower band then buy on 5 mins timeframe.

https://i.ibb.co/m5bcpp5/Screenshot-2023-09-13-at-11-29-38.png

So on interface i've set it like that.

https://i.ibb.co/phf92wv/Screenshot-2023-09-13-at-11-43-02.png

For exit, if price > SMA (middle line of BB) | %1 Stop-Loss | %0.5 Trailing Stop Loss activation and %0.3 Follow Distance | x10 leverage

Besides of backtest, there are live test (virtually). This is the results so far.

https://i.ibb.co/gWPc5gL/Screenshot-2023-09-13-at-11-47-24.png

%61 succsess rate, %0.1 average profit.  

[algoBoi]

Indicators can increase the probability of making profit in trading, but it deos not 100% guarantee that if a trader use them to trade, that the trader would win. Indicators are just some things to know in trading but strategies is what that is most important.

If you have 100% money, use 10% or less to trade.
You can start a trade with averaging. If you win, you close the position. If you are losing, you will wait until your indicators tell you to increase the leverage. You can start a trade with 0.2x and increased it to 1x. That is averaging.

Averaging may still fail, you need to not let emotion to control you. Trade with the amount of money that you can afford to lose.

Or i keep using Martingale strategy

Yes of course i dont expect %100 success rate. This method is good, but it requires a good amount of liquidation. Some point market will crashes deeply and liquidation would not be enough when it happens.

Actually i was looking for an algo-trade way with indicators. I don't know if we can determine drops with indicators, so we could be avoid from them with acceptable losses.

[Cookdata]

Hi everyone.

I've examined indicators for very long time. Especially if you are trading often, they would increase your winning possibilities.

While some months i've learned how to code Pine Script on Tradingview and backtest with it. But i can't get good results even if many combination of indicators.    When i look at past data manually, it works smoothly but this data retrospective and indicators can't drawn in future.

I wonder is there anyone who succeed on trading with indicator/combination of indicator/special strategy.

I'm open to discuss all ideas.  

No serious trader will claim that he is a successful trader without using indicators but the time matters a lot. Have you ever used an indicator in a bull run? You will find out that they are not as important as you think, they won't help a lot because many coins will be on a speedy mode at any news, more of fundamental than technical, this is why you need to play your game very well in bull run but in a bear market, you will need it more than anything because all the coins that pump during the bull run will all be down by that time, you need technical analysis to monitor the next move of the market.

Nevertheless, despite all your combinations, you should learn how to play trading with your mind and feelings. Whenever you see that the market is not favourable and your indicators say otherwise, you should follow your mind to avoid guilt later, reason is that indicators are not 100% trustworthy and they do lag, the market will have done what you expect before they show you any sign of move.

[algoBoi]

Hi everyone.

I've examined indicators for very long time. Especially if you are trading often, they would increase your winning possibilities.

While some months i've learned how to code Pine Script on Tradingview and backtest with it. But i can't get good results even if many combination of indicators.    When i look at past data manually, it works smoothly but this data retrospective and indicators can't drawn in future.

I wonder is there anyone who succeed on trading with indicator/combination of indicator/special strategy.

I'm open to discuss all ideas.  

No serious trader will claim that he is a successful trader without using indicators but the time matters a lot. Have you ever used an indicator in a bull run? You will find out that they are not as important as you think, they won't help a lot because many coins will be on a speedy mode at any news, more of fundamental than technical, this is why you need to play your game very well in bull run but in a bear market, you will need it more than anything because all the coins that pump during the bull run will all be down by that time, you need technical analysis to monitor the next move of the market.

Nevertheless, despite all your combinations, you should learn how to play trading with your mind and feelings. Whenever you see that the market is not favourable and your indicators say otherwise, you should follow your mind to avoid guilt later, reason is that indicators are not 100% trustworthy and they do lag, the market will have done what you expect before they show you any sign of move.

Agreed, beginning of 2020 i used algotrade that created with indicators. It amplified my gain relative to marketcap. The algorithms I used in the bull run gave terrible results when the market was flat or in a bearish period.

My conclusion for this experience, strategies should be dynamic not static. There should be a switch for strategies according to market direction bullish or bearish. So main strategy should be define to market situation and strategy that i use needs to change.

[Zigabel]

I've examined indicators for very long time. Especially if you are trading often, they would increase your winning possibilities.

I wonder is there anyone who succeed on trading with indicator/combination of indicator/special strategy.

Indicators are tools which are essential for traders especially if you are a beginner, they help your strategy work when combined properly and applied where they should. Beginners usually trade in a mechanical pattern of trade hence the essentiality of indicators to keep them staying to their trade plans or models, some may want to combine several indicators while the others a few whichever is fine.

As a professional trader you will want to use few or more indicator based on your dynamics, this could be regular indicators provided by brokers or advanced indicators bought from elsewhere and installed on your chart, any of the indicators can be used and still achieve desired results, but this does not guarantee a 100% success in trading neither failure. With a  proper combination of indicators or an indicator and a good strategy  80%-95% winning trades can be achieved consistently, but not all the time so always know there are good days and bad days in the life of a trader and there is no best strategy or indicators

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

Using indicators to trade doesn't necessarily mean that your trade can be 100% successful; as long as the cryptocurrency market movement isn't dependent on those indicators, there's no way you can have a 100% win all the time. The cryptocurrency market is usually very dynamic. Using indicators to trade means you have a likely possibility of knowing the direction of the market, but it's not always accurate all the time. Even with the indicator, the predictions are not always correct because of the volatility and dynamic nature of cryptocurrency prices. Also, while trading, don't let yourself be controlled by your emotions; only trade when there is really a strong position to enter. Don't just trade because you want to try your luck, but because you want to make a profit, so don't take the risk of entering a trade that you are not very sure of.

[Bushdark]

Indicators can increase the probability of making profit in trading, but it deos not 100% guarantee that if a trader use them to trade, that the trader would win. Indicators are just some things to know in trading but strategies is what that is most important.

If you have 100% money, use 10% or less to trade.
You can start a trade with averaging. If you win, you close the position. If you are losing, you will wait until your indicators tell you to increase the leverage. You can start a trade with 0.2x and increased it to 1x. That is averaging.

Averaging may still fail, you need to not let emotion to control you. Trade with the amount of money that you can afford to lose.

Or i keep using Martingale strategy

Yes of course i dont expect %100 success rate. This method is good, but it requires a good amount of liquidation. Some point market will crashes deeply and liquidation would not be enough when it happens.

Actually i was looking for an algo-trade way with indicators. I don't know if we can determine drops with indicators, so we could be avoid from them with acceptable losses.

It all depends on the kind of Market you are trading or else you might be seeing similar loses with time until the market comes to full volatility. Indicator can be very useful if we know what we are doing and how to go about our market analysis. Don't need to stick too much on indicator but we can simply add it to the techniques we use to analyze the market and make proper decisions on our trades.
I have used do many indicators but what I know so far is that they can lag on real time basis. We can back it up with other tools that will make it unique.

[Lanatsa]

Hi everyone.

I've examined indicators for very long time. Especially if you are trading often, they would increase your winning possibilities.

While some months i've learned how to code Pine Script on Tradingview and backtest with it. But i can't get good results even if many combination of indicators.    When i look at past data manually, it works smoothly but this data retrospective and indicators can't drawn in future.

I wonder is there anyone who succeed on trading with indicator/combination of indicator/special strategy.

I'm open to discuss all ideas.  

You would really be finding for yourself on the time that you would really be stepping your foot into this market on which you would be finding the relevance of these technical indicators on which you would really be

primarily be looking up for these things because you cant really be to draw out some analysis without the making use of these tools which i could say that it would really be that highly relevant for someone to learn up these things because you cant really be able to handle yourself within this market without knowing these things. You would really be needing for you to sustain and able to read up somehow on where prices could potentially go even though it wont really be that 100% precise but at least you do have the idea on where it could potentially go. I do agree on some sentiments that having no analysis when it comes to price predictions are really totally considered to be gambling.

It would be always suggested that you should be having that technical approach rather than on having nothing at all and also not all the time that this market could really be having some news
on which you could rely or depend on.

[el kaka22]

They are not useless, you just need to find which ones work for you the best .People think that there are indicators that could make you profit easily, but the reality is that we are talking about a situation where it will take a while to get that done, and it is not that way and it is different.

I personally believe that we are going to end up with a situation that would be different, and I hope that it can get to a point where we could make our personalized versions. One indicator could work amazing for me, but terrible for you, and meanwhile another indicator could work amazing for you and bad for me. This means that you need to find what works for you the best and you could make a good strategy based on that one.

[suzanne5223]

But i can't get good results even if many combination of indicators.

Technical indicators are not useless but I believe the reason why you are not getting good results is the current market momentum posed by the market which is nothing showing to be the reason behind the market trend.
I always advise people not to use indicators in this current market cause the best thing to do is analyze the market with the previous trends of the market before halving the year.

[virasog]

Indicators can increase the probability of making profit in trading, but it deos not 100% guarantee that if a trader use them to trade, that the trader would win. Indicators are just some things to know in trading but strategies is what that is most important.

This. Some people think using technical analysis indicators means that your trades can end up being right with like 80-90% accuracy when done correctly, which is simply ludicrous. In reality, at most, probably a bump up of an extra 5-10% in terms of chances of being right. Doesn't sound that big of a bump, but that extra 5-10% win rate stretched out to hundreds of trades, that number suddenly becomes very relevant.

Most of the technical indicators are passive ones and they are formed when the price has already performed certain patterns. They do not give a clue for the future prediction of the price.
These include the most commonly used indicators like moving averages, RSI and all many others. Most of them are used by the retail traders.

If you want to predict the price of bitcoin and other crypto currencies, you need to know the price action trading. Understand the price action is an art and it only comes with experience. However, once you grasp the price action trading, you will become a successful trader.

[ancafe]

I've examined indicators for very long time. Especially if you are trading often, they would increase your winning possibilities.

Indicators are not a guarantee of making a profit, but they are important for increasing profits in trading so that they are more accurate. Indicators are one thing that needs to be learned in trading apart from strategy which is something that is quite necessary.

I wonder is there anyone who succeed on trading with indicator/combination of indicator/special strategy.

Usually I use indicators to see to what extent risk management can be minimized in adjusting to market conditions. Indicators are not something that determines but rather create a road map for us before deciding to trade. The combination of the three may be quite useful for increasing profits in trading, but it does not guarantee extract profits every day.

[HONDACD125]

Hi everyone.

I've examined indicators for very long time. Especially if you are trading often, they would increase your winning possibilities.

While some months i've learned how to code Pine Script on Tradingview and backtest with it. But i can't get good results even if many combination of indicators.    When i look at past data manually, it works smoothly but this data retrospective and indicators can't drawn in future.

I wonder is there anyone who succeed on trading with indicator/combination of indicator/special strategy.

I'm open to discuss all ideas.  

Well, there are many indicators that you can use to trade better, but as far as absolute confidence in the indicator is concerned, I don't think any indicator can give you a perfect signal. I have often seen people using different types of indicators, that is, combining three or four indicators to try to predict which direction the market might go.

However, I have my own experience with indicators, as I have used many indicators. Almost all indicators give you a signal, but you get a signal when the market has gone up or down. That is, there is a big difference between market movement and signal, meaning that the signal comes much later, the market movement starts much earlier. I only look at overbought and oversold from RSI. I have not found good accuracy from any other indicator. However, some people try to get good signals after using different indicators together, and some are successful.

[gunhell16]

Hi everyone.

I've examined indicators for very long time. Especially if you are trading often, they would increase your winning possibilities.

While some months i've learned how to code Pine Script on Tradingview and backtest with it. But i can't get good results even if many combination of indicators.    When i look at past data manually, it works smoothly but this data retrospective and indicators can't drawn in future.

I wonder is there anyone who succeed on trading with indicator/combination of indicator/special strategy.

I'm open to discuss all ideas.  

For me, technical indicators are not useless; they can somehow give an indication of when to buy or sell or where to take a short or long position. That also depends on us, of course. But not in all cases is it 100% certain that it can give profit to our individual traders.

Just like, for example, if I use the moving average, it really tells me when I should buy and sell. It also helps me identify support and resistance to take action in stop loss so that I can earn from my trading activity. But of course we have different ways of using tool indicators, which is also good because we know something about them instead of always relying on guesswork in trading. We still have a different understanding of trading.

[|MINER|]

Just as there is no end to the acquisition of knowledge, there is no end to the development of technical analysis. The more knowlegde about technical analysis, the better he can perform. And those who have little knowledge about this but want to perform well through it are the ones who face loss. And these kinds of people will say that technical analysis are usless. But Yes it's true that there is no guarantee about 100% surely you will get profit here by this. It should be reminded that trading is not quick money making scheme.

[TheUltraElite]

Especially if you are trading often, they would increase your winning possibilities.

Who ever said so?

When i look at past data manually, it works smoothly but this data retrospective and indicators can't drawn in future.

It's good that you collected that data but analysing that and drawing a conclusion and predicting a future movement is a different ballgame.

I wonder is there anyone who succeed on trading with indicator/combination of indicator/special strategy.

Indicators are only used to "indicate" the market trend and good for commenting on the past markets while having the current data at hand. They are not what can help you to make a correct prediction but a 50-50 prediction only. If the former was possible people would be trading to make money and not work their rear off.

Use the data to make predictions on paper and see how much you are getting correct and you will understand my statements. Technical analysis is itself a pseudo-science and therefore take it with a lot of salt.

[jrrsparkles]

Technical indicators are nothing but predicting the future movement of the market based on past movements but it doesn't mean the market will move exactly in the way you predicted. Even the results will change for different sets of indicators which is enough to prove that it is not accurate in predicting the movements. So when you tested the market favorably for you but it didn't when you implemented it in real time but it doesn't mean the strategy is not working.

It may work in future trades so it all depends on how long you can survive in the market which is subjective with the capital you have and the amount you allocated for trading.

[onecall123]

Trading is a business for many of us, and it requires different tools for various types of trading. One important thing newcomers often overlook about Technical Analysis (TA) is that it's not the 100% decision maker but a helpful tool. Relying solely on TA for success might not be entirely sensible. While you might have faith in TA, remember the crypto market isn't at the stage where it can be the only tool.
If you need more information, a good approach is to use search engines like Google, which were created for this purpose.