Electrum, Android version!

[digaran]

Ok, again with my noob questions, I have a wallet on laptop, I also have the android version on my phone, but when I tried to import my seed from laptop wallet to my phone wallet, whatever seed words I entered didn't activate the "next" button on the screen, so I was wondering why nothing worked at all and also another Q, if I encrypt my laptop wallet with password, all the keys generated by the seed would be inaccessible from any other device even if I have the seed?

But if I don't set a pass, anyone having my seed could access my keys from anywhere right?

[1714603511]

1714603511

[1714603511]

1714603511

[1714603511]

1714603511

[Findingnemo]

I have a wallet on laptop, I also have the android version on my phone, but when I tried to import my seed from laptop wallet to my phone wallet, whatever seed words I entered didn't activate the "next" button on the screen, so I was wondering why nothing worked at all

It means the application has bugs, make sure its the updated version.

And follow this

1. Choose "Create a new wallet" and click "Next."
2. Select "standard wallet option" and click "Next".
3. Choose "I already have a seed".
Then try entering your seed words now it should work, and if still now try contacting devs and report this bug.

and also another Q, if I encrypt my laptop wallet with password, all the keys generated by the seed would be inaccessible from any other device even if I have the seed?

But if I don't set a pass, anyone having my seed could access my keys from anywhere right?

Wallet encryption has nothing to do with the seeds, it just encrypts the wallet file so if someone tries to copy the wallet file from Electrum and use it on another device then it won't be recognized.

You can import the wallet via seeds or the address via private keys to any other wallet and device no matter if you encrypt the seeds while you generating them.

Since you’re posting on electrum board then I assume it is about electrum.

Never forget to read the title buddy!

[Learn Bitcoin]

Okay, the latest version of Electrum of Android becomes a bit confusing. Please update your Electrum wallet first and then follow these steps>>

At first, select yes or No as it asks if you use a local proxy service such as Tor to reach the internet. Tap on next and then select auto-connect, write a wallet name (no matter what name you want to write), tap next, and again continue with the standard wallet. Make sure you do not select Import Bitcoin Address or private keys as it will create a watch-only wallet. Tap next and choose I already have a seed. Write your seeds here and tap next again and then it will ask your password if your wallet is already encrypted.

I wrote all the steps because I made a mistake before. I chose Import Bitcoin address or private keys instead of choosing a standard wallet.

2nd Answer is: If your wallet is encrypted, it will ask for your password if you import it into another device. This is a wrong statement. Electrum asks for a password for a specific device only.

Edit: Findingnemo was fast enough to post it already. I wrote from my phone so it takes me a long to write these things. Please avoid spelling mistakes.

[Zaguru12]

Since you’re posting on electrum board then I assume it is about electrum. If the desktop wallet you are using is electrum then you can only import that seed phrase into a mobile wallet that actually supports electrum seed which is either BlueWallet or the electrum wallet itself on Android. But if the wallet are not the same then electrum seeds can not be imported into them (because they are basically Bip39 wallets).

another Q, if I encrypt my laptop wallet with password, all the keys generated by the seed would be inaccessible from any other device even if I have the seed?

But if I don't set a pass, anyone having my seed could access my keys from anywhere right?

No they will certainly be accessible because the password is just for that wallet on that device and once someone gets access to that seed they can import into an electrum wallet on another device without the password.

What you need is a passphrase on the seed and not just a wallet password. With a passphrase on the seed, only the seed cannot be imported into another wallet until hacker also knows the passphrase

Note: security wise it is not advisable to import your seeds from your desktop wallet into your mobile wallet rather if you want to view your wallet from your phone you can simply use the watch only wallet by importing the master public key from your desktop wallet into your mobile wallet

[pooya87]

if I encrypt my laptop wallet with password, all the keys generated by the seed would be inaccessible from any other device even if I have the seed?

But if I don't set a pass, anyone having my seed could access my keys from anywhere right?

Seed phrase is also known as "recovery" phrase which indicates one of its purposes. In other words it is meant to be used in case for example you forgot your encryption password or lost the wallet file and wanted to recover your funds.
So with or without using a password to encrypt the wallet file you can always recover the same keys using that seed phrase.

P.S. You may be confusing the password used for wallet encryption with the "password" used as the 13th word in mnemonic algorithms. In the second case, despite the name "password" it does not encrypt anything, it is acting like an extension to derive a different master key from the same seed. In this case you do need the password to recover the funds and having the seed phrase alone is not enough.

[digaran]

Thanks guys, once I used "passphrase" and then imported my seed into another device and got different keys ( long time ago ) so when I entered my seed this time I was waiting for the next button to be activated and it didn't, so I assumed mobile wallet operates differently, hence my confusion of encrypting wallet and extended seed word.

I guess the problem is with the wallet because I didn't install it from google store, I downloaded from electrum.org

In general I dislike having a software to hold and manage private keys, I have always generated a key using a web service for it's randomness and then changed some of it's characters to generate a new key offline, while the first key was also generated offline using an offline website, and I just always import my keys separately to transfer.
I'm a bit paranoid, I think every wallet/key generator is rigged with a master key and that they can derive all the funded keys with that master key when they see a tx in block chain.
That's why after 6/7 years, I'm asking wallet related questions.

[hosseinimr93]

so when I entered my seed this time I was waiting for the next button to be activated and it didn't, so I assumed mobile wallet operates differently, hence my confusion of encrypting wallet and extended seed word.

Whether it's the desktop version or the mobile version, if your seed phrase is correct, you should be able to import your wallet.
Both mobile version and desktop version should generate the same addresses.

Where did you generate your seed phrase?
If your seed phrase has not been generated by electrum, it's probably BIP39 and you must check "BIP39" when recovering your wallet on electrum.


Take note that passphrase is different from password.
If you have extended your seed phrase with a passphrase, you need that whenever you want to recover your wallet from seed phrase. As mentioned by pooya87, passphrase is also known as 13th word.
If you have encrypted your wallet with a password, it only encrypts your wallet file locally and you don't need that when recovering your wallet from seed phrase.

I guess the problem is with the wallet because I didn't install it from google store, I downloaded from electrum.org

You did the right thing.
It's always recommended to download electrum from its official website.

In general I dislike having a software to hold and manage private keys, I have always generated a key using a web service for it's randomness and then changed some of it's characters to generate a new key offline,

It's not recommended to use web tools for generating keys.

And what do you mean by offline?
If you just disconnected your device from internet when generating the keys, you didn't really increase your security. You should use an air-gapped device.

I think every wallet/key generator is rigged with a master key and that they can derive all the funded keys with that master key when they see a tx in block chain.

No.
Electrum (which is one of the safest wallets) is open-source and its code has been reviewed by many people.
You can be sure that electrum generates the seed phrase randomly and you are the only one who has access to the seed phrase (This is assuming you are not using a fake version of electrum and your device is not compromised.)

[Bureau]

so when I entered my seed this time I was waiting for the next button to be activated and it didn't, so I assumed mobile wallet operates differently, hence my confusion of encrypting wallet and extended seed word.

Whether it's the desktop version or the mobile version, if your seed phrase is correct, you should be able to import your wallet.
Both mobile version and desktop version should generate the same addresses.

I just now uninstalled and reinstalled the mobile wallet on my Android phone. Followed all the steps and entered the seed word unfortunately, I did face the same issue. When I rechecked my seed phrases I found that I had entered one wrong. Corrected it and the Next link got activated.

OP is entering the wrong seed phrase, that is the reason the Next link is not getting activated. I won't blame OP for entering the seed phrases wrong as the UI of the current mobile version 4.4.6 is not that good. The wallet allows users to enter the seed words using its built-in keyboard. The keyboard is very small and sometimes user may enter the wrong alphabet without realizing it.

[pooya87]

In general I dislike having a software to hold and manage private keys, I have always generated a key using a web service for it's randomness and then changed some of it's characters to generate a new key offline

Changing some bits in a possibly compromised key will only make the hacker's work harder not impossible, specially since you said it here, and it may also be something other "victims" did too, the hacker can easily write a loop to check in the same vicinity!

I'm a bit paranoid, I think every wallet/key generator is rigged with a master key and that they can derive all the funded keys with that master key when they see a tx in block chain.

Being a little paranoid when it comes to security is not bad, but too much paranoia is not healthy either.
You can easily use an open source software which you can check its code and compile yourself; considering you know some python it shouldn't be that hard for you to check out Electrum source.
If that's not enough, check out how you could generate a key using coin flips or a die.

[BitMaxz]

Thanks guys, once I used "passphrase" and then imported my seed into another device and got different keys ( long time ago ) so when I entered my seed this time I was waiting for the next button to be activated and it didn't, so I assumed mobile wallet operates differently, hence my confusion of encrypting wallet and extended seed word.

It works fine to me when importing my own seed phrase I think the problem is the extra space on the last words you put because the auto-suggest words when clicking it automatically add an extra space this is an old issue you need to manually type the last part without clicking the suggestion or if you click it make sure you erase the extra space on the last word.
And I think this issue has been resolved on the latest version unless you are still using the old version.

Here's the old thread that I'm talking about
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5452633.0

[hosseinimr93]

I think the problem is the extra space on the last words you put because the auto-suggest words when clicking it automatically add an extra space this is an old issue you need to manually type the last part without clicking the suggestion or if you click it make sure you erase the extra space on the last word.

This can't be the problem. OP is probably entering a wrong seed phrase or entering a BIP39 seed phrase without selecting "BIP39" option.

The bug you are talking about appeared in the version 4.4.3 when confirming the seed phrase after generating a new one
There was no bug when entering the seed phrase for recovering the wallet.

[digaran]

After reading BitMaxz's post, I tried not to tap on the wallet built-in suggestions, after typing each word I simply hit 1 space to add the next word, and it worked.
However before that I tried 2 trust wallet generated seeds, one worked by using suggestions, other one didn't work. This shouldn't happen though, because I did everything as I did with the first seed, anyways it needs some improvements, for example the cursor blink could help in such situations.

One other question though, are seeds formatted for different address types? Because when I imported my seed it printed segwit, at the end of text box, that means that specific seed will always generate segwit addresses when imported? Shouldn't we select address type after importing the seed? Because it only asked for password to encrypt the wallet after entering the seed, only bip39 seed prompts for address type.

[Z-tight]

The wallet allows users to enter the seed words using its built-in keyboard. The keyboard is very small and sometimes user may enter the wrong alphabet without realizing it.

Electrum's in-built or virtual keyboard is for your own security, sometimes default or third party keyboards can be risky as they could probably be giving away information about you to their servers or they may be infected by malware which could mean your funds can be stolen if you enter your seed phrase using them. I have not had any problems using Electrum's virtual keyboard, just double check everything when typing and you'll be fine.

Because it only asked for password to encrypt the wallet after entering the seed, only bip39 seed prompts for address type.

I believe that is because by default Electrum wallet only generates SegWit addresses.

[hosseinimr93]

After reading BitMaxz's post, I tried not to tap on the wallet built-in suggestions, after typing each word I simply hit 1 space to add the next word, and it worked.

What version of electrum are you using on your mobile phone?
As I said in my previous post, there was a bug in the version 4.4.3 which caused the "next" button not to work when generating a new seed phrase and entering that for confirmation and that was solved in the next release.
There was no bug when entering the seed phrase for recovering the wallet.

However before that I tried 2 trust wallet generated seeds, one worked by using suggestions, other one didn't work.

It shouldn't be like this. You definitely did something wrong.
If you have generated two seed phrases in trustwallet, you should be able to import both of them in electrum. This is assuming you have selected "BIP39" option.

One other question though, are seeds formatted for different address types? Because when I imported my seed it printed segwit, at the end of text box, that means that specific seed will always generate segwit addresses when imported?

Right. That's how seed phrases generated by electrum work. There's a version number that has been encoded in electrum seed phrases and makes any seed phrase generates only one type of addresses.
Unlike an electrum's seed phrase, a BIP39 seed phrase can generate different type of addresses.

[digaran]

What version of electrum are you using on your mobile phone?

The latest version, 4.6.6.0

There's a version number that has been encoded in electrum seed phrases

Alright, this is interesting to learn, my last question ( hopefully) when I enter random seed words 12 of them, it doesn't activate or even recognize the seed, why is that? Shouldn't all the possible seed word combinations work?

For example I can't import the following in electrum android :

Code:

damage trace young end frozen like dear class party melody doctor record

If the seed above can't be imported, then there is something wrong either with my understanding of how seed words work or with both bip39 and electrum.

If there is some sort of format to be followed, wouldn't that compromise security?

[hosseinimr93]

Alright, this is interesting to learn, my last question ( hopefully) when I enter random seed words 12 of them, it doesn't activate or even recognize the seed, why is that? Shouldn't all the possible seed word combinations work?

Whether the seed phrase has been generated by electrum or it's BIP39, not all combinations of words give you valid seed phrase.

BIP39 seed phrase:
Any BIP39 seed phrase represents a 132 bits number in which the last 4 bits are checksum. In other words, the last 4 bits are a function of the first 128 bits. Therefore, if you enter 12 random words from BIP39 wordlist, there's a 15/16 chance that the combination of words doesn't pass the BIP39 checksum.

Electrum's seed phrase:
Any electrum's seed phrase is valid only if the the hash of it starts with 01, 100 or 101.
If the hash starts with 01, the seed phrase will generate legacy addresses and if the hash starts with 100, the seed phrase will generate segwit addresses. If the hash starts with 101, the seed phrase generates a 2FA wallet.

If there is some sort of format to be followed, wouldn't that compromise security?

No.
A seed phrase generated by electrum provides 132 bits of entropy and a BIP39 seed phrase provides 128 bits of entropy. They give us enough randomness and security.