A Simple Reason Why Bitcoin and Crypto Prices Must Fall to Zero

[Fausto Arta]

Given that crypto has no specific purpose there is nothing to predict. There's no way to tell whether prices are cheap or expensive. In crypto, speculators pay prices solely on the hope that other speculators will pay them higher prices. They essentially believe in the growth of speculative demand in the future. Crypto is therefore a perfect example of the greater fool theory.

So what's in it for you when some people believe what you say?
I'm sure you will only be considered a troll with some of the assumptions and theories that are generally said by bitcoin trolls, so I think many people are not expecting your sermon here.

So it's better to stop your sermon and continue your other mission.
As a newbie I don't really expect your brainwashing assumptions successfully influence my investment plans in bitcoin.

[STT]

I'll object to your basic premise.  BTC has more then one use, more then a dozen uses really and you lack imagination to believe its only one thing.    For an entire world connected digitally but entirely different in many ways, nationally, economically, political, time wise and currency divided this is a unifying online currency standard that is useful.
  BTC is certainly not perfect, but its useful, even if it halved price the use carries on and I dont care about the largest holders, millionaires and billionaires can go elsewhere if they so wish but the basic use of a person with a few dollars exists and thats all we need to justify this system of value nothing more; these are the billions of people who will always matter more, an economy is people and BTC has its economy.
  Even the biggest critics still say BTC has some value in the hundreds, I think you are way off.

So you spent all this time to pen down along easy to outline something you feels doesn't have value?

lol  

The cowrie, a type of marine snail, has very colourful shells which were used as money. It seems that it wasn’t just the colours that made the shell appealing - its small size and durability made them popular too.

Although the cowrie is mainly found in the Indian and Pacific Oceans, it was spent around the world as traders travelled overseas, with parts of Europe accepting it as valid currency.

endured for centuries, making it the most widespread and longest-used currency in history

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/zfx2m39


Its a decent argument, deserves a merit anyway but we do have and have had many previous currencies not commodity based not especially of value in of themselves.

The purpose of stocks is to represent shares of ownership in or

Quite a few stocks can be completely empty entities.  It might be a worse analogy then you imagine, companies sometimes have no business and so the stock too is fairly flat in describing or even being backed by anything.  Happens more often then would be imagined initially, not always a negative thing but a stock can just be cash only at times (and yes 100% speculative).   Just in my experience from what I've read etc.

[armanda90]

Simple reason bitcoin fall to be zero depend with investor bough Bitcoin in higher price and they won't loss their money or becoming zero if selling assets with most cheapest price. I don't know where is crazy ideas coming when speculating with Bitcoin possibilities with be zero values because we are investing when bitcoin on higher price. There are not stupid people want to sell their investment assets with lower price if investing in higher price, need miracle or war crisis if want to see Bitcoin will be zero and there are not any effective yet with money value until ended or world are possibility for all assets investment not only with bitcoin but also anything will be zero.

Stop bad and crazy imagination talking about Bitcoin will be zero values in the future since supply and demand keep balance in the exchange market, have balance between buy and sell order is realistic reason why bitcoin keep having values in the future.

[JamesNZ]

It's funny how all responders here ignore the argument at hand and just write stuff completely unrelated to it. The argument talks about the difference between speculative and real demand. The usual crypto propaganda for attracting speculators cannot refute it. The difference between speculative and real demand is so simple to comprehend that there is no need to say anything more than what was said in the opening post. Let alone respond to all those ad hominem and non sequitur comments.

Even if you're right, there's far too many people that's sharing the illusion and it's too late to be saying that bitcoin's going downhill because there are big players in the market now and I don't think that they would want the price to go down so fast and them still hodling, they're going to want the ability to control that drop and then get out with a big profit. You could've made your post a bit more organized too, a wall of text isn't an attractive material to read for many.

And again. Why do you think that your prediction about the growth of speculative demand is important? Literally all people that bought crypto coins assume that speculative demand will grow so they can dump those coins on someone else and get higher prices. Otherwise they would not buy the coins as there is no specific purpose for which they can use them. All holders must sell them by definition and they must believe the price will be higher. That's the essence of the greater fool theory. The topic at hand talks about why the assumptions
of the buyers contradict reality.

[Dzwaafu11]

Given that crypto has no specific purpose there is nothing to predict. There's no way to tell whether prices are cheap or expensive. In crypto, speculators pay prices solely on the hope that other speculators will pay them higher prices. They essentially believe in the growth of speculative demand in the future. Crypto is therefore a perfect example of the greater fool theory.

So what's in it for you when some people believe what you say?
I'm sure you will only be considered a troll with some of the assumptions and theories that are generally said by bitcoin trolls, so I think many people are not expecting your sermon here.

So it's better to stop your sermon and continue your other mission.
As a newbie I don't really expect your brainwashing assumptions successfully influence my investment plans in bitcoin.

 
I also wonder the time the OP takes to write down all this, as he is trying to brainwash or discourage people from investing in bitcoin, and bitcoin has more than one use, as the OP thinks bitcoin doesn't have much value or something like that. If he takes his time and does the needful on the forum, it will help him in a long way because someone cannot just come and start saying what doesn’t have value, so I think the OP has a long way to go if he really wants to have knowledge of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies entirely because the OP still lacks the knowledge of bitcoin as it’s indicated in what he brought here.

What was the psychology behind it, and how did they act to make this a thing? Obviously OP is wrong, and all of those things that he thinks are real and data and so forth are just made up things and just opinions and nothing more. However, we know this, what made OP think that we do not know he is wrong? What made him think that we would believe what he just wrote? That's the interesting part.

I believe with the replies that have been provided on this thread so far, the OP has realised that the whole thing he wrote is not meaningful and it has no use to people because I also don’t see anything meaningful in what he wrote, as I’ve read this twice now, but what can we say? Nothing. The OP is still a newbie. I think he still lacks knowledge of bitcoin, so I’ll like it if he takes his time and goes and reads more about it, as obviously he still doesn’t have knowledge about it since he didn’t know even the use of bitcoin.

[JamesNZ]

Given that crypto has no specific purpose there is nothing to predict. There's no way to tell whether prices are cheap or expensive. In crypto, speculators pay prices solely on the hope that other speculators will pay them higher prices. They essentially believe in the growth of speculative demand in the future. Crypto is therefore a perfect example of the greater fool theory.

So what's in it for you when some people believe what you say?
I'm sure you will only be considered a troll with some of the assumptions and theories that are generally said by bitcoin trolls, so I think many people are not expecting your sermon here.

So it's better to stop your sermon and continue your other mission.
As a newbie I don't really expect your brainwashing assumptions successfully influence my investment plans in bitcoin.

I also wonder the time the OP takes to write down all this, as he is trying to brainwash or discourage people from investing in bitcoin, and bitcoin has more than one use, as the OP thinks bitcoin doesn't have much value or something like that. If he takes his time and does the needful on the forum, it will help him in a long way because someone cannot just come and start saying what doesn’t have value, so I think the OP has a long way to go if he really wants to have knowledge of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies entirely because the OP still lacks the knowledge of bitcoin as it’s indicated in what he brought here.

What was the psychology behind it, and how did they act to make this a thing? Obviously OP is wrong, and all of those things that he thinks are real and data and so forth are just made up things and just opinions and nothing more. However, we know this, what made OP think that we do not know he is wrong? What made him think that we would believe what he just wrote? That's the interesting part.

I believe with the replies that have been provided on this thread so far, the OP has realised that the whole thing he wrote is not meaningful and it has no use to people because I also don’t see anything meaningful in what he wrote, as I’ve read this twice now, but what can we say? Nothing. The OP is still a newbie. I think he still lacks knowledge of bitcoin, so I’ll like it if he takes his time and goes and reads more about it, as obviously he still doesn’t have knowledge about it since he didn’t know even the use of bitcoin.

Hahaha, this is hilarious. Now instead of the difference between speculative and real demand, the responders talk about me. Literally no one wants to talk about the topic at hand. You people either spread the usual crypto propaganda, deny reality that the only use of coins is trading, or do ad hominem attacks. It's like I am talking to some kind of cult.

[Fausto Arta]

-snip-

Hahaha, this is hilarious. Now instead of the difference between speculative and real demand, the responders talk about me. Literally no one wants to talk about the topic at hand. You people either spread the usual crypto propaganda, deny reality that the only use of coins is trading, or do ad hominem attacks. It's like I am talking to some kind of cult.

Most cryptos are speculative products that are only created to make their owners rich, so I confirm your assumption. While I don't see a similar motive in bitcoin where value is determined by supply and demand. Moreover, bitcoin is not only used as an asset that can be traded, but bitcoin is also used as a store of value by some investors who no longer trust banks.

I don't expect you to force an opinion where everyone has to admit what you say, most of it is bullshit. In my opinion, people like you can never trust bitcoin and how people trust it. So stay away because once again, your sermon is not worth more than people's investment.

[JamesNZ]

-snip-

Hahaha, this is hilarious. Now instead of the difference between speculative and real demand, the responders talk about me. Literally no one wants to talk about the topic at hand. You people either spread the usual crypto propaganda, deny reality that the only use of coins is trading, or do ad hominem attacks. It's like I am talking to some kind of cult.

Most cryptos are speculative products that are only created to make their owners rich, so I confirm your assumption. While I don't see a similar motive in bitcoin where value is determined by supply and demand. Moreover, bitcoin is not only used as an asset that can be traded, but bitcoin is also used as a store of value by some investors who no longer trust banks.

I don't expect you to force an opinion where everyone has to admit what you say, most of it is bullshit. In my opinion, people like you can never trust bitcoin and how people trust it. So stay away because once again, your sermon is not worth more than people's investment.

Store of value is just speculative use. You buy a product with the purpose to sell it in the future and in the meantime you're storing value in that product. That product is store of value by the definition of speculative use. Literally all crypto coins fit that definition. They are all store of value. Some are good, and some are bad store of value. Non-speculative use is something entirely different. This is when a product is used for specific purposes - wheat for nutrition, gold for jewelry or electronics, fiat for paying debt to the banking system, bonds for receiving coupons or face value, etc.

Crypto coins have no specific purpose. They have no real demand. Rather, they are completely speculative. They are useless virtual items that change hands according to the greater fool theory.

[Odohu]

Well this is nothing but fud! Even though you are entitled to your opinion, I think this very opinion is not needed here. There is no point trying to discouraging us from buying Bitcoin as you are not the first to hold this kind of opinion; in the end, Bitcoin will always prove you all wrong.

All bubbles eventually but inevitably pop. Then, massive sell-offs cause prices to decline, often quite dramatically. The real demand is what stops prices from further decline. With crypto lacking such demand, there is nothing to stop the decline, and prices inevitably must fall to zero.

It is obvious you really have not taken time to study the technology behind Bitcoin and the role Bitcoin is/has been playing in the global financial system. Without Bitcoin, it was a huge challenge sending money across borders in my country and I know a lot of people in various jurisdiction also face similar challenge. This is of of the real utility that Bitcoin offers and that is enough to create the demand. Good a thing, many gambling, subscription and other platforms are integrating Bitcoin payment and that is demand. If you think Bitcoin do not have demand, then you have not been paying attention.  If the price will want to crash, let it crash on my head!

[JamesNZ]

Well this is nothing but fud! Even though you are entitled to your opinion, I think this very opinion is not needed here. There is no point trying to discouraging us from buying Bitcoin as you are not the first to hold this kind of opinion; in the end, Bitcoin will always prove you all wrong.

All bubbles eventually but inevitably pop. Then, massive sell-offs cause prices to decline, often quite dramatically. The real demand is what stops prices from further decline. With crypto lacking such demand, there is nothing to stop the decline, and prices inevitably must fall to zero.

It is obvious you really have not taken time to study the technology behind Bitcoin and the role Bitcoin is/has been playing in the global financial system. Without Bitcoin, it was a huge challenge sending money across borders in my country and I know a lot of people in various jurisdiction also face similar challenge. This is of of the real utility that Bitcoin offers and that is enough to create the demand. Good a thing, many gambling, subscription and other platforms are integrating Bitcoin payment and that is demand. If you think Bitcoin do not have demand, then you have not been paying attention.  If the price will want to crash, let it crash on my head!

I am not expressing opinion. I am describing reality. And you're the one denying reality with the usual crypto propaganda. You're portraying useless virtual coins as something revolutionary in order the dumpt them on someone else at better prices.

[Tytanowy Janusz]

I am not expressing opinion. I am describing reality. And you're the one denying reality with the usual crypto propaganda. You're portraying useless virtual coins as something revolutionary in order the dumpt them on someone else at better prices.

Then refer to my argument. Somehow it passed unvetoed. You only wrote that we ignore your arguments, while you did not address most of them, including mine.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5467415.msg62873484#msg62873484

This is my post. Based on the data provided - explain to me, how gold keeps its value for 2500 years ...

[JamesNZ]

I am not expressing opinion. I am describing reality. And you're the one denying reality with the usual crypto propaganda. You're portraying useless virtual coins as something revolutionary in order the dumpt them on someone else at better prices.

Then refer to my argument. Somehow it passed unvetoed. You only wrote that we ignore your arguments, while you did not address most of them, including mine.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5467415.msg62873484#msg62873484

This is my post. Based on the data provided - explain to me, how gold keeps its value for 2500 years ...

If you want discussion about your argument open your own topic. This topic is about the difference between speculative and real demand and how that relates to bitcoin/crypto bubble.

[Tytanowy Janusz]

If you want discussion about your argument open your own topic. This topic is about the difference between speculative and real demand and how that relates to bitcoin/crypto bubble.

So you have no argument for this. You say that crypto has no value because it cannot be used (so it have only speculative value and must fall to zero), and on the other hand you see gold, which has held value for 2,500 years only because it holds value (certainly not because of its use in electronics, which accounts for 7% of its use).

And not thanks to jewelry, because you have to admit that gold is terrible as a material for making jewelry. It is soft and deforms quickly, and other cheaper metals are not aesthetically different from gold, and even if it were, it would be enough to gold-plate the jewelry.

The gold example disproves your claim and yet you refuse to counter-argument.

[JamesNZ]

If you want discussion about your argument open your own topic. This topic is about the difference between speculative and real demand and how that relates to bitcoin/crypto bubble.

So you have no argument for this. You say that crypto has no value because it cannot be used (so it have only speculative value and must fall to zero), and on the other hand you see gold, which has held value for 2,500 years only because it holds value (certainly not because of its use in electronics, which accounts for 7% of its use).

And not thanks to jewelry, because you have to admit that gold is terrible as a material for making jewelry. It is soft and deforms quickly, and other cheaper metals are not aesthetically different from gold, and even if it were, it would be enough to gold-plate the jewelry.

The gold example disproves your claim and yet you refuse to counter-argument.

The only problem here is your denial of reality. What I am doing is just describing reality in which everything traded on the market, except crypto, has a specific use. It has a real demand that uses it for specific purposes. Do people demand gold for making jewelry, electronic, etc. Yes. That is reality. This reality cannot change because you think something about gold.

So how exactly am I wrong if I simply described  what everyone can observe? I am not wrong but you are in denial of reality by comparing useful metal with useless virtual coins.

[Tytanowy Janusz]

The only problem here is your denial of reality. What I am doing is just describing reality in which everything traded on the market, except crypto, has a specific use. It has a real demand that uses it for specific purposes. Do people demand gold for making jewelry, electronic, etc. Yes. That is reality. This reality cannot change because you think something about gold.

So how exactly am I wrong if I simply described  what everyone can observe? I am not wrong but you are in denial of reality by comparing useful metal with useless virtual coins.

Gold is bad for use in jewelry. In electronics it has been used for the last 50 years and only 7% of the gold ends up there and in your opinion this has given it value for the last 2500 years? Being a poor raw material for jewelry made it the strongest asset of the last 2,500 years? NO! gold's use cases does not determine its value. They're like oregano on pizza. You're full of pizza, not oregano.The desire to have something expensive and rare that holds value. This makes people want to have gold. This gives it value. It's not me who ignores reality. You are the one who claims that gold is valued by using it in electronics, which defies logic, and you do it only to justify your erroneous views.

gold previously had the function of money, but this was taken away by central banks. Even this did not destroy gold as an great asset

"desire to have something expensive and rare that holds value" Bitcoin has all these characteristics

[JamesNZ]

The only problem here is your denial of reality. What I am doing is just describing reality in which everything traded on the market, except crypto, has a specific use. It has a real demand that uses it for specific purposes. Do people demand gold for making jewelry, electronic, etc. Yes. That is reality. This reality cannot change because you think something about gold.

So how exactly am I wrong if I simply described  what everyone can observe? I am not wrong but you are in denial of reality by comparing useful metal with useless virtual coins.

Gold is bad for use in jewelry. In electronics it has been used for the last 50 years and only 7% of the gold ends up there and in your opinion this has given it value for the last 2500 years? Being a poor raw material for jewelry made it the strongest asset of the last 2,500 years? NO! gold's use cases does not determine its value. They're like oregano on pizza. You're full of pizza, not oregano.The desire to have something expensive and rare that holds value. This makes people want to have gold. This gives it value. It's not me who ignores reality. You are the one who claims that gold is valued by using it in electronics, which defies logic, and you do it only to justify your erroneous views.

gold previously had the function of money, but this was taken away by central banks. Even this did not destroy gold as an great asset

"desire to have something expensive and rare that holds value" Bitcoin has all these characteristics

So basically, you trash talk about an item that people actually use for non-speculative purposes and sweet talk about an item that has only speculative purpose. How that makes me wrong?

[uchegod-21]

It's funny how all responders here ignore the argument at hand and just write stuff completely unrelated to it. The argument talks about the difference between speculative and real demand. The usual crypto propaganda for attracting speculators cannot refute it. The difference between speculative and real demand is so simple to comprehend that there is no need to say anything more than what was said in the opening post. Let alone respond to all those ad hominem and non sequitur comments.

When you make this kind of controversial topics you don't expect anything different.

• The topic is controversial
• The topic is lengthy
• The topic could be a fallacy

The reason why there seems to be off topic reply is because many people are not reading the wall of text but they are replying base on three title.

[Tytanowy Janusz]

So basically, you trash talk about an item that people actually use for non-speculative purposes and sweet talk about an item that has only speculative purpose. How that makes me wrong?

So basically, I talk about that an item that has 93% speculative purposes have no advantage over an item with 100% speculative purposes. especially since this 7% appeared in the last 50-100 years, and without it (i.e. also 100% speculative purposes) it held value for 2,500 years.

[JamesNZ]

So basically, you trash talk about an item that people actually use for non-speculative purposes and sweet talk about an item that has only speculative purpose. How that makes me wrong?

So basically, I talk about that an item that has 93% speculative purposes have no advantage over an item with 100% speculative purposes. especially since this 7% appeared in the last 50-100 years, and without it (i.e. also 100% speculative purposes) it held value for 2,500 years.

But how that changes the fact that gold has non-speculative use, while crypto coins don't? Literally everyone can create items that only have speculative use. Hence the inflation of cryptocurrencies - there are more than 20K of them. You just write a computer program, some protocols and voila ... you print crypto coins out of the blue . The catch is of course that no one can use those coins for anything except dumping them on the greater fool. How that has advantage over something that has actual, non-speculative use? It doesn't. You live in the fantasy word. You try to convince me that useful things don't have advantage over useless ones. Crazy.

[_BlackStar]

JamesNZ - who forced you to believe in crypto?
You are never obligated to believe anything you don't believe in - including crypto. If all this explanation doesn't convince you about crypto - what's the point of everything you're saying?

I'm not going to argue with people with a completely centered mindset like you - it's like putting air into a flat tire or I'm just talking to a wall. Believe in something that you believe is useful for you - it's better than never having anything. All of these cryptos are speculative - but some of them have real use cases as a means of payment. Come to El Salvador, pay for something with bitcoin - you will be welcomed there.