What Do you think Satoshi Would Think About Today's Bitcoin?

[lionheart78]

Bitcoin is freedom, the proof of it is its decentralized nature free from any central authority.  Although Bitcoin is created as a peer-to-peer currency where anyone can have the freedom to transfer anywhere and anytime without the need for third-party institutions.  I believe Satoshi leave the spotlight because of this so-called freedom for he doesn't want to influence the market if he is not dead yet.  Satoshi getting out of the spotlight simply means that people who use Bitcoin are free to use it in whatever they see fit.

We cannot say that the Bitcoin pioneers never used it as speculative derivatives, since if they use it as a currency why most of these early adopters are still holding Bitcoin?  Bitcoin has been used as a speculative asset ever since so people looking at Bitcoin the same way is no news.  It comes in the free market I believe.

[Mr.right85]

Personally, I think his vision of Bitcoin is not what Bitcoin has come today.

- It has became a centralized market, which is controlled by entities. A single cex or dex can manipulate the price in its favor, meaning dumping the price to aquire more btc in lower prices. (liq hunting) So it has become B2P instead of Satoshi's P2P vision.

- Many of it's adapters today don't even use it as a currency or store of value, they use it as a speculative derivative. You can look at this by looking at spot and futures volumes. Adapters pre-2020 know more about Bitcoin's motive, fundementals and mission where after 2020 the market is filled with idiot perma-bulls.

- Bitcoin and Bitcoin's price are two different things. According to Satoshi's Vision BTC is meant to be a digital peer to peer currency; not a store of value which contradicts today's investors. BTC's scalebility issues caused people to shift the narrative to a store of value.

- To conclude, I believe Bitcoin is in the wrong place today from Satoshi's vision. I'm a satoshi visionaire btw, you could think otherwise and I will respect you. This is just my thoughts.

What are your thoughts?

Maybe it isn’t in exact but, it’s very much in line with what should have been. That Satoshi Nakamoto created bitcoin doesn’t mean the currency would be finite about his purpose for the coin. Can’t say the coin have shifted that much in purpose but rather, gained a life of its own that would ensure the 21million coins could serve an enabled world population with regards to adopters.

If we are to have price to be stable today and with the lost of adopters that comes pouring in everyday,
Don’t you think there wouldn’t be enough to go round? That would be the case and this would very much limit bitcoin to be a currency of the few which would in turn, cause a shift to altcoins for those who would be eager to use cryptocurrency.

For this reasons, bitcoin has gained a life of its own to adjust and suit purposes even before they are known.
I think the pride for Satoshi Nakamoto at the moment would be that, the creators creation has gained a life of its own in order to be sustainable.

[Silberman]

Satoshi Nakamoto thought of it and wrote about it years ago.
We are going with a second scenario in Satoshi's vision for Bitcoin, very large transaction volume and trading volume, bigger with time.

Right.  Otherwise we couldn't have a finite limit of 21 million coins, because there would always need to be some minimum reward for generating.  In a few decades when the reward gets too small, the transaction fee will become the main compensation for nodes.  I'm sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume.

Yes, I meant that in my writing too. I actually was talking about get rich quick motive; buy and hodl. Instead of peer-to-peer anonymous transactions.

Satoshi was an extremely smart individual, so it is to be expected that he knew that despite his goals once he released his invention to the world what will happen to bitcoin will be completely out of his hands, so even if deep down he is disappointed by the current state of things, I do not think this is an unexpected scenario for him, and if anything he could have predicted that things could have turned out to be this way, after all the current economic paradigm still relies on centralized institutions, so I find it natural they are trying to make bitcoin to fit this model.

[hatshepsut93]

Satoshi will be sad because people are use Bitcoin completely opposite to the whitepaper.

People are prefer to hold their coins in centralized exchange than non custodial wallet.
People are view Bitcoin as a commodity than as a currency.
People always judge Bitcoin price in USD or local fiat requirement than 1 BTC = 1 BTC.
People don't care about decentralization and privacy, they choose to rely on centralized entity and share KYC to any unknown site.
Many countries are still ban Bitcoin which make no freedom.

Bitcoin itself didn't change much after Satoshi left, but Bitcoin community sure did. When he was active on the forum, the members were very enthusiastic about Bitcoin use, cypherpunk, financial revoulation. These days the users are mostly talking about the price, and even if they talk about how fiat currency is bad, it's only to justify being bullish on Bitcoin.

[suzanne5223]

Serious question, where I get different reply from everyone.
Personally, I think his vision of Bitcoin is not what Bitcoin has come today.

The vision Satoshi had for Bitcoin is for it to be used as currency and a store of value and I wonder why you said BTC doesn't have the vision Satoshi has for it.

 

It has became a centralized market, which is controlled by entities. A single cex or dex can manipulate the price in its favor, meaning dumping the price to aquire more btc in lower prices. (liq hunting) So it has become B2P instead of Satoshi's P2P vision.

This is something we should expect since the decentralization in nature of BTC doesn't make it something the CEX shouldn't get involved in and BTC being a volatile in nature cryptocurrency has made it a speculative/manipulation material.
I believe that's one of the reasons why Satoshi introduced the BTC block halving to control inflation in the market.

[Darker45]

Satoshi impresses me as somebody who is more open-minded and tolerant than many of his/her/their followers now. Satoshi might not agree with certain opinions on the growth or fate of Bitcoin, but he/she/they will probably take them into serious consideration and might even suggest a fair compromise or common ground. It seems to me Satoshi won't outright dismiss the innovative ideas of others simply because they don't conform with his/hers/theirs.

Bitcoin was more exploratory than a final output. Bitcoin is still in beta until now. Before Bitcoin was launched, he/she/they let others scrutinize the idea and/or work. Satoshi reached out to certain personalities and was in close collaboration with them.

What I'm saying is that Satoshi won't probably rebuke or insult others for appreciating Bitcoin differently. There might be certain principles that Satoshi won't ever compromise, but the approach might not be the kind that many of us receive from some Bitcoin fanatics.

[tetaeridanus]

Thank you all for your replies I will be replying very soon, working atm!

[Gallar]

~Snip
- Bitcoin and Bitcoin's price are two different things. According to Satoshi's Vision BTC is meant to be a digital peer to peer currency; not a store of value which contradicts today's investors. BTC's scalebility issues caused people to shift the narrative to a store of value. However, hence BTC is created as limited money, I believe satoshi also believed one day the narrative would be shifted to a store of value case.

In essence, this is true. That Satoshi created Bitcoin with the aim of being used as a digital-based transaction tool (P2P). However, if all this time Bitcoin only offered this feature (P2P), I'm sure Bitcoin would not be as famous as it is now. Because it cannot be denied that the attraction of bitcoin for investors is the potential for very high price increases and also the excellent storage of value. So for me personally this is not a problem. Because in my opinion, Satoshi will not question the reality of what is happening with Bitcoin today, the most important thing is that Bitcoin can be useful for many people, and has become an excellent example of a decentralized system. Because the reality is that currently bitcoin is more widely used as an investment asset, compared to P2P. But in my opinion this is also the way to the goal of satoshi, namely P2P. Because thanks to Bitcoin being used as an investment asset and also as a store of value, this makes Bitcoin increasingly popular among the public.

- To conclude, I believe Bitcoin is in the wrong place today from Satoshi's vision. I'm a satoshi visionaire btw, you could think otherwise and I will respect you. This is just my thoughts.

What are your thoughts?

If you say it's completely wrong, I don't think it's true. Because in essence Satoshi created Bitcoin with the aim of creating a better financial system than the traditional money financial system.
Apart from that, currently quite a lot of bitcoin users use it as a medium of exchange (P2P), for example in El Salvador. There, Bitcoin is officially and legally used as a means of payment transactions.

And if, for example, bitcoin is currently only used as a digital transaction tool, it is important to remember that there are still many countries in the world that do not yet allow their citizens to use bitcoin as a transaction or P2P tool. So Bitcoin's challenge to realize its main vision is still very long. Therefore, although Bitcoin is used today, it does not yet conform to Satoshi's vision. But in my personal opinion this cannot be said to be wrong. Because even so, with the existence of bitcoin, many people, especially investors in bitcoin, know what is called decentralization, an asset that is very transparent, and can be managed independently by each investor.

[ImThour]

Unfortunately according to my beliefs, Hal Finney was satoshi and he's no longer with us to think about his amazing creation. The best part is that it's still the Number 1 Blockchain-based Cryptocurrency and there is no way any other project comes over and goes ahead in the ranking anytime soon. And even for a second if I imagine that he's alive, he will be proud of how his creation is still so relevant in 2023 and the math he did is fairly stable for many coming years.

[dansus021]

Probably if Satoshi were still alive now he would drink coffee and watch the news about crypto every day and sometimes he laugh.

Yes, I meant that in my writing too. I actually was talking about get rich quick motive; buy and hodl. Instead of peer-to-peer anonymous transactions.

To be honest I think this would be one reason people joining Bitcoin "to get profit " from it. BlackRock and other asset management will say the same or look the same.

For now, there is article that talk about Bitcoin transaction "Bitcoin, contrary to popular belief, is traceable. While your identity is not directly linked to your Bitcoin address, all transactions are public and recorded on the blockchain. So, while your name is not attached to your address, your address is attached to your transaction history." - https://originstamp.com/blog/how-to-trace-bitcoin-transactions/

So if you address related to any CeX or you buy it from real life person I do believe is still tracable. and there is company like ARKHAM that are trying to DEANONYMIZING THE BLOCKCHAIN - https://www.arkhamintelligence.com/

and the other hand bitcoin block cant use for everyday payments unless you are using layer 2 like lightning in my opinion

[blue Snow]

What are your thoughts?

When we back and read his white paper, for sure everything was happened today is not in accordance with that. However, what does not deviate from the initial goal today? everything that's going on today is not on the right path. because of circumstances, bitcoin must follow the existing situation, we can't force things that go with the real, If we force it, of course, we will face all rejections because of the basic law of the country,

[adaseb]

I don’t think he would think negatively about it. I reached the goal that he set out to achieve pretty much. Remember those hashrate wars and how many miners were mining at a loss? It proves how resilient the network was during times of chaos.

Globally it’s pretty much accepted by regulations with KYC, he would have to accept that this was going to happen anyways. You can’t have anything survive in any developed countries without some form of government regulation. So I think he would be proud of what it has become.

[legendbtc]

✂✂✂✂

What are your thoughts?

I agree with your point of view, bitcoin today is not going in the right direction as he expected (whitepaper), BTC is being turned into an investment, a commodity, not a currency or peer-to-peer payment method. But I don't think it's a serious problem. It's like if you graduate in accounting but you become a manager or a businessman, that's not so bad. As long as the work you do brings comfort and a good income, it's even better for you. Similarly, bitcoin is not a currency but it still benefits people by being an asset, which means the Satoshi vision hasn't failed either.

[michellee]

We wouldn't know what Satoshi would say if he were on this forum. But he is certainly happy to see that Bitcoin has grown rapidly in just a short time. Whether Bitcoin has become a peer to peer digital currency or a store of value, it will go that way. It needs government approval to become a digital currency, and we cannot avoid it.

That's why Bitcoin has now "looks" become centralized but Bitcoin is not connected to any entity. Bitcoin still stands alone without anyone being able to control it. They are the ones who control price movements. However, Bitcoin has become a digital currency in online shops that accept Bitcoin payments.

However, people are currently using Bitcoin as a store of value because they couldn't accumulate much of it in the early days of it.

[retreat]

-snip-

- It has became a centralized market, which is controlled by entities. A single cex or dex can manipulate the price in its favor, meaning dumping the price to aquire more btc in lower prices. (liq hunting) So it has become B2P instead of Satoshi's P2P vision.

-snip-

Decentralization is not always fair, because one entity can take the largest portion and manipulate the market. However, for the Bitcoin market itself, which is already quite large, I doubt that one cex or entity can manipulate the market alone because the Bitcoin market position is already quite large and they certainly need large funds to manipulate this market. Moreover, when they do dumping or pumping, of course there is a Bitcoin community that is ready to do backup, whether it's buying it back or selling it, so the opportunity for one entity to manipulate the market is quite difficult.

[Kelward]

If a change occurs because Satoshi wants this thing or does not want it, then we have not yet reached the level of decentralization required, but I think he will be happy, as Bitcoin has prompted changes in the lives of individuals and in the understanding of the economy, not to mention that it is a realistic thing and has continued to work throughout the previous periods, and it is difficult to judge. It must succeed or fail, as we still need about 7 years before we reach the first evaluation, and let us remember that it took Apple decades of years to reach the current level.
It is not necessary to reach Satoshi's scenario, but it is something that works and there is continuous development, which is the most important thing.

With all due respect to Satoshi, I think that bitcoin has grown beyond what his original plans might be, because millions of people with different ideologies have adopted it. The only constant thing in life is change, therefore, bitcoin being decentralized will mean that majority of people that holds it will influence how it is used. Satoshi, has to accept what bitcoin is today, because the geometrical increase in the number of people that are adopting the coin everyday is based on the fact that they can earn  from it. People capitalize on things that will reward them financially, so focusing on bitcoin more as an investment, rather than on P2P is no surprising.  

[Nrcewker]

Satoshi’s main motive was to develop a decentralised way of payment. Bitcoins were initially developed for these purpose only. Now a days we have seen many adaptations of uses of Bitcoins. If Satoshi is still present, then he might also be witnessing the same. I would say Satoshi doesn’t really care about the way people are treating Bitcoins now. He did his part by developing it. Now how the world uses it, completely depends on the people only.

[Texac]

What are your thoughts?

Of course, Satoshi will be happy if he is alive and sees Bitcoin. He wants people to be away from the bank and centralized system and Bitcoin is decentralised up to date. You said Bitcoin is centralized over time yeah it is true but still, bitcoin is decentralized as people run their own full nodes and participate in the network and many projects are working to reduce centralization like the lighting network. Bitcoin is still a new technology and is under construction and it has the potential to revolutionize the Financial system.

Satoshi created bitcoin to become a peer-to-peer currency, but today, bitcoin is being used by us as a speculative tool to make profits. I don't think he would have been very happy to have been alive to see what was going on.  but I agree with you, although many people are making bitcoin more centralized by using centralized exchanges, custodial wallets but bitcoin will not lose its decentralized nature just because of a few parts that small.

[Lucius]

It is completely irrelevant what Satoshi would think about where Bitcoin is today compared to the time when he was still active, because the essence of everything was to create something decentralized and to offer people an alternative to the existing financial system. He did his part of the job more than well, but he could not or did not want to influence what happened afterwards.

I agree that his idea only partially succeeded and that it works for a small percentage of people, and the rest are just waiting for some influential individual or some company to say something and buy BTC so that they can profit from such a decision. The direction we're going in could very easily result in Bitcoin becoming a toy for the rich (as long as it's fun/profitable for them), while the average Joe will have been thrown out of the game a long time ago because he thought a six-digit number was a great opportunity for an exit point.

[tetaeridanus]

Thank you all for your replies, I can't seem to reply all of you one by one hence I'm a newbie it will take forever.

To add on the thread;

I agree with most of you on Satoshi's brilliance and forseeing on the future. He would have thought every scenerio that could happen to bitcoin. One thing I want to add is that no one would have known how big will Bitcoin be, however Satoshi created and implemented every thing just in case.

- We all know Bitcoin's true goal was adoption as many of you have said, but in what way; I still don't believe it became the Bitcoin that Satoshi visionized, maybe not the technology but the community is far far away from the initial days cypherpunk era.

Although I have missed my opportunity on BTC by selling them early, I don't believe owning *** BTC's is the goal here unlike the people the new bull season has brought. I believe Satoshi not only created Bitcoin, but created a new form of thinking, decentralisation. Some people think he is dead some people think he is alive. I also have high belief on Hal but this is off topic so I'm not going into it. All I know is that the day Satoshi dissappeared off this earth, BTC became alive as never before; %100 percent decentralised and community driven. And most importantly here to stay for a long time. Who knows, maybe this was the master's plan all along.


Thanks for reading, as always.

With respect,

PS: Thanks for the merits NotATether! You made my week!
Tetaeridanus✨