Cloudbet scammed me for 1BTC

[Abzzy]

Cloudbet and their master license holder played a dirty game that cost me a whopping 1BTC (equivalent to $40,000 AUD).

I fell for Cloudbet's marketing email that boldly claimed they had been "serving Australia's crypto community since 2013." Their website further boasted as "Australia's best Bitcoin sports betting site." It all seemed legit, so I decided to dive in and start betting.
https://imageupload.io/Y2OEoBhqXPVsfDn
https://imageupload.io/RRQmFE7ewCCvPtK

But there was a twist: I later discovered that I was in a prohibited jurisdiction, it’s illegal to offer unlicensed gambling services in Australia and Cloudbet had been banned from operating in Australia for over a year. I felt deceived, to say the least.
https://imageupload.io/fTLhE7kUfnKUM3o

Naturally, I reached out to their support through chat, hoping for some clarity. The representative confidently reassured me that they were "fully compliant," "licensed," and "regulated" in Australia.
https://imageupload.io/p5Men0xV0phlSq2

Next, I decided to escalate my concerns to their master license holder. To my dismay, they seemed to take Cloudbet's side and firmly stated that Cloudbet did nothing wrong in code words (because I barely understood what the hell they said). It felt like a dead-end, and I couldn't make sense of it.
https://imageupload.io/sycGangvZDXnkhS

But then,  Just a week later, I received an automated email notifying me that Cloudbet was no longer accepting Australian players. They essentially restricted accounts to withdrawals only, scrubbed all Australian marketing content from their website, and added Australia to their terms and conditions as a prohibited jurisdiction.
https://imageupload.io/NlsyQWsUgovnFzQ
https://imageupload.io/IEt9FoHjiLuXWu9

I strongly suspect that the master license holder pretended to side with Cloudbet, only to bare them the burdon of having to return my money, then made them fix their act.

I also received an email stating that the chat representative who made false claims about Cloudbets legality in Australia was “misguided” and it was a mere “human error”.
What the hell how does that explain the Australian marketing emails and Australian targeted content on their websites homepage. They even had a blog post explaining how Australians can buy crypto to transfer to Cloudbet.
Despite this, they refused to take blame for anything or return my funds..
https://imageupload.io/MwiXTed5x6AYEi3

On Reddit, I spotted a response from Ronnie at Cloudbet to another user facing a similar ordeal. Ronnie claimed that they allow players in restricted territories to withdraw their deposits before closing their accounts. However, the results of any bets made are void. So why haven't I received my deposited funds back?

https://reddit.com/u/illermrmiller/s/O4U6ZmFsOc

Cloudbet now refuses to respond and so does the master license holder “Curacao Egaming”.

[1715425021]

1715425021

[owlcatz]

Is this the same stuff you posted about here already? 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5466334.msg62835144#msg62835144

[Abzzy]

Is this the same stuff you posted about here already? 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5466334.msg62835144#msg62835144

Yes some of it, however  the entire landscape of the situation changed since that post.
Cloudbet ultimately admitted to claims of wrongdoing, however refused to refund deposits.

[Pmalek]

Wayback Machine doesn't allow me to load the saved pages from 2023 to see whether or not Australia was in the restricted territories list when you gambled. It is now, but it wasn't back in April 2022.
Regardless of that, what happened with that 1 Bitcoin? You didn't say a word about that. So you deposited 1 BTC, did you gamble, did you lose, did you win? What happened with the coins?

[Abzzy]

Wayback Machine doesn't allow me to load the saved pages from 2023 to see whether or not Australia was in the restricted territories list when you gambled. It is now, but it wasn't back in April 2022.
Regardless of that, what happened with that 1 Bitcoin? You didn't say a word about that. So you deposited 1 BTC, did you gamble, did you lose, did you win? What happened with the coins?

Hi dude,

It was added to their terms and conditions on September 27 2023 to be exact. On this same day they removed all Australian marketing content from their website and based on the automated email I received restricted all Australian accounts.

This was shortly after my complaint to Cloudbet and Curacao Egaming where they denied my allegations.

The 1BTC was deposited and lost. However the deposits were in response to the marketing email misrepresenting themselves as an Australian licensed operator.
Some guy inboxed me before asking, would you be complaining if you won. Not at all, however as per the reddit post I referred to, cloudbet initiate KYC after substantial wins and void bets if found to be playing from a prohibited jurisdiction. So I may have won, but who’s to say I would have actually been able to get my hands on it.

[Lucius]

The 1BTC was deposited and lost. However the deposits were in response to the marketing email misrepresenting themselves as an Australian licensed operator.
---
So I may have won, but who’s to say I would have actually been able to get my hands on it.

I don't see any scam in the fact that you lost 1 BTC gambling, only to find out later that your country is on the black list, and then you thought what would happen if you made a profit. We can only guess what would happen then, but who says that you wouldn't be able to get at least your deposit back?

What is by no means disputed is the fact that that casino did not warn potential players from your country in a very clear way that they cannot open an account at their casino.

I'm just wondering if you created your account using the IP of your country, or maybe you used a VPN?

[Pmalek]

It was added to their terms and conditions on September 27 2023 to be exact. On this same day they removed all Australian marketing content from their website and based on the automated email I received restricted all Australian accounts.

Sadly, that is not going to be easy to prove. I did see the screenshots you posted but there is no way to verify when they were taken. It's your word against theirs.

The 1BTC was deposited and lost. However the deposits were in response to the marketing email misrepresenting themselves as an Australian licensed operator.
Some guy inboxed me before asking, would you be complaining if you won. Not at all, however as per the reddit post I referred to, cloudbet initiate KYC after substantial wins and void bets if found to be playing from a prohibited jurisdiction. So I may have won, but who’s to say I would have actually been able to get my hands on it.

I understand what you are saying. And thanks for being honest about the fact that you wouldn't have problems taking the money while being in Australia. Still, you begin the thread by saying that Cloudbet cost you 1 BTC. But that's not completely true. You played and you lost. Cloudbet didn't withhold your winnings or refused to pay you any profits.

You shouldn't have been allowed there in the first place, and hopefully no Australian will find their way to Cloudbet in the future. If you had won and they refused to pay, I would be on your side and consider it a clear scam. Them not updating their terms or restricting Australian players is their mistake, and you shouldn't have to pay for their intentional or unintentional actions. 

[jordanw21]

You should create complaint at LCB, Casino.guru. I had same situation in other casino, but the sum was less - they helped me. However, I don't think that 1BTC is a big deal for Cloudbet.

[ScamViruS]

What I found on their website is that this website is prohibited for gamblers from Australia. Now if they are also sending marketing emails to customers in prohibited countries in their T&C, then that is another matter which is not acceptable in any way. Because it is a crime to do marketing in the country where their site is prohibited. On the other hand, you didn't read the T&C before registering on this website, which is really a big mistake. Now it is difficult to conclude this allegation.

7.1.2. We do not accept registration from persons resident in jurisdictions that prohibit you from participating in online sports betting, gambling, gaming, and/or games of skill, for and/or with Cryptocurrency.

7.1.3. You agree that at all times when using the Website, including making requests for withdrawal or transfers of funds, you are not physically located in any of the following countries:

• Australia;

• Belgium;

• China, Macau, Hong Kong SAR;

• Curaçao;

• Lithuania;

• Netherlands;

• Singapore;

• the United States of America and its territories;

• United Kingdom;

Source : https://www.cloudbet.com/beta/casino/en/content/help/terms

[Abzzy]

It was added to their terms and conditions on September 27 2023 to be exact. On this same day they removed all Australian marketing content from their website and based on the automated email I received restricted all Australian accounts.

Sadly, that is not going to be easy to prove. I did see the screenshots you posted but there is no way to verify when they were taken. It's your word against theirs.

The 1BTC was deposited and lost. However the deposits were in response to the marketing email misrepresenting themselves as an Australian licensed operator.
Some guy inboxed me before asking, would you be complaining if you won. Not at all, however as per the reddit post I referred to, cloudbet initiate KYC after substantial wins and void bets if found to be playing from a prohibited jurisdiction. So I may have won, but who’s to say I would have actually been able to get my hands on it.

I understand what you are saying. And thanks for being honest about the fact that you wouldn't have problems taking the money while being in Australia. Still, you begin the thread by saying that Cloudbet cost you 1 BTC. But that's not completely true. You played and you lost. Cloudbet didn't withhold your winnings or refused to pay you any profits.

You shouldn't have been allowed there in the first place, and hopefully no Australian will find their way to Cloudbet in the future. If you had won and they refused to pay, I would be on your side and consider it a clear scam. Them not updating their terms or restricting Australian players is their mistake, and you shouldn't have to pay for their intentional or unintentional actions. 

LCB.org moderators attempted to reach out to Cloudbet to have them refund me. In the complaints thread that can be found online  (prior to the 27th) the moderators confirm that Australia was not in the terms and conditions as a prohibited jurisdiction and that Cloudbet is at fault.

In my opinion, they did cost me 1BTC. I would never have dabbled on their website (eventually resulting in losses) if it weren’t for their marketing. In most first world countries there are strict rules with what you can and can’t advertise regarding gambling. It’s a sensitive subject given the amount of problem gambling that exists that’s ruining peoples lives. In this case, we have Cloudbets  maliciously false advertising with clear cut bad intent, any court would rule losses as a fault of the operator.

What I found on their website is that this website is prohibited for gamblers from Australia. Now if they are also sending marketing emails to customers in prohibited countries in their T&C, then that is another matter which is not acceptable in any way. Because it is a crime to do marketing in the country where their site is prohibited. On the other hand, you didn't read the T&C before registering on this website, which is really a big mistake. Now it is difficult to conclude this allegation.

7.1.2. We do not accept registration from persons resident in jurisdictions that prohibit you from participating in online sports betting, gambling, gaming, and/or games of skill, for and/or with Cryptocurrency.

7.1.3. You agree that at all times when using the Website, including making requests for withdrawal or transfers of funds, you are not physically located in any of the following countries:

• Australia;

• Belgium;

• China, Macau, Hong Kong SAR;

• Curaçao;

• Lithuania;

• Netherlands;

• Singapore;

• the United States of America and its territories;

• United Kingdom;

Source : https://www.cloudbet.com/beta/casino/en/content/help/terms

Australia was added to their terms and conditions after I raised a complaint with Cloudbet and their master license holder.
They basically admitted guilt by doing that and removing all of their Australian targeted marketing content however chose to stop replying to me.

The 1BTC was deposited and lost. However the deposits were in response to the marketing email misrepresenting themselves as an Australian licensed operator.
---
So I may have won, but who’s to say I would have actually been able to get my hands on it.

I don't see any scam in the fact that you lost 1 BTC gambling, only to find out later that your country is on the black list, and then you thought what would happen if you made a profit. We can only guess what would happen then, but who says that you wouldn't be able to get at least your deposit back?

What is by no means disputed is the fact that that casino did not warn potential players from your country in a very clear way that they cannot open an account at their casino.

I'm just wondering if you created your account using the IP of your country, or maybe you used a VPN?

Hi Lucius,

Warn players from my country? They did the opposite of that, lured us in which is why I believe they hold a fair amount of blame.

If you look at the screenshots I’ve posted, there’s website content targeted at Australians..
Theres also a screenshot of the chat operator falsely claiming that Cloudbet is licensed, regulated and fully compliant in Australia.

I also never used VPN. The way I found out I’m in a prohibited jurisdiction is when I lost access to their website, because the Australian government blocked the URL through the internet providers.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[ScamViruS]

~~

Australia was added to their terms and conditions after I raised a complaint with Cloudbet and their master license holder.
They basically admitted guilt by doing that and removing all of their Australian targeted marketing content however chose to stop replying to me.

If you lost your 1 Bitcoin by gambling, there doesn't seem to be any reason to lose your Bitcoin because of changing their T&C here. Now if they don't allow you to withdraw your winning funds and give the excuse that you are staying in prohibited jurisdictions then that would be a big concern. But here you lose your funds before you can reach that stage.

I actually don't know if they did what happened to you on purpose or not because there is no solid evidence to show that you are facing such huge losses due to being from prohibited jurisdictions. I really feel sorry for you for losing your 1 Bitcoin.

[Abzzy]

~~

Australia was added to their terms and conditions after I raised a complaint with Cloudbet and their master license holder.
They basically admitted guilt by doing that and removing all of their Australian targeted marketing content however chose to stop replying to me.

If you lost your 1 Bitcoin by gambling, there doesn't seem to be any reason to lose your Bitcoin because of changing their T&C here. Now if they don't allow you to withdraw your winning funds and give the excuse that you are staying in prohibited jurisdictions then that would be a big concern. But here you lose your funds before you can reach that stage.

I actually don't know if they did what happened to you on purpose or not because there is no solid evidence to show that you are facing such huge losses due to being from prohibited jurisdictions. I really feel sorry for you for losing your 1 Bitcoin.

Yes but your disregarding the fact that I created the account and deposited funds on the back of their false predatory marketing, that put me in a position to bet from a prohibited jurisdiction and allow cloudbet at any point to confiscate my funds anyway should I have won.

I provided an example reddit post above, where it showed how Cloudbet handled a user who won, while residing in a prohibited jurisdiction.

[Pmalek]

In my opinion, they did cost me 1BTC. I would never have dabbled on their website (eventually resulting in losses) if it weren’t for their marketing. In most first world countries there are strict rules with what you can and can’t advertise regarding gambling. It’s a sensitive subject given the amount of problem gambling that exists that’s ruining peoples lives. In this case, we have Cloudbets  maliciously false advertising with clear cut bad intent, any court would rule losses as a fault of the operator.

Being responsible with your spending is the most important thing. You see, I don't dance the ballet or need a brand-new BMW. No amount of advertising to pay for ballet lessons or buy a new BMW will make me spend money on that. And if I were to do it, I would have to look myself in the mirror and say this is my doing. I wanted that beautiful car I kept seeing on the billboards everywhere. 

Cloudbet didn't make you gamble. You made that decision. And you didn't do it with 10 or 20 AUD, you spent a whole 1 BTC on it. Now you are angry and want the money back. If you had turned that 1 BTC into 2 BTC, you would have been happy and maybe posted a nice review about the casino. Sorry, but I don't support the notion I was tricked into gambling because I saw advertisements about it that weren't supposed to be there. You wanted to gamble to win, but that didn't happen. It's a harsh reality but it's the truth.

[Lucius]

Hi Lucius,

Warn players from my country? They did the opposite of that, lured us in which is why I believe they hold a fair amount of blame.

If you look at the screenshots I’ve posted, there’s website content targeted at Australians..
Theres also a screenshot of the chat operator falsely claiming that Cloudbet is licensed, regulated and fully compliant in Australia.

I also never used VPN. The way I found out I’m in a prohibited jurisdiction is when I lost access to their website, because the Australian government blocked the URL through the internet providers.

As I already wrote, it is something that you can definitely blame them for, but it still does not lead to anything because there is no element of scam, considering that you lost your deposit in a completely normal way by gambling at an online casino.

Be that as it may, you cannot ask for someone to give you back 1 BTC just because you think that they lured you to gamble in that online casino, you lost and come to terms with it. Next time, be more thorough in checking the casino before you make a deposit, so if you lose again, at least you won't have to feel scammed.

[holydarkness]

Hi Lucius,

Warn players from my country? They did the opposite of that, lured us in which is why I believe they hold a fair amount of blame.

If you look at the screenshots I’ve posted, there’s website content targeted at Australians..
Theres also a screenshot of the chat operator falsely claiming that Cloudbet is licensed, regulated and fully compliant in Australia.

I also never used VPN. The way I found out I’m in a prohibited jurisdiction is when I lost access to their website, because the Australian government blocked the URL through the internet providers.

As I already wrote, it is something that you can definitely blame them for, but it still does not lead to anything because there is no element of scam, considering that you lost your deposit in a completely normal way by gambling at an online casino.

Be that as it may, you cannot ask for someone to give you back 1 BTC just because you think that they lured you to gamble in that online casino, you lost and come to terms with it. Next time, be more thorough in checking the casino before you make a deposit, so if you lose again, at least you won't have to feel scammed.

For reference, OP's aim is to duplicate the outcome of a redditor where he was allowed to withdraw his deposit and got his bets voided. Thus, OP argue, he should also get the same treatment and all of his lost bet got cancelled and returned to him [since it's cancelled].

[...]
On Reddit, I spotted a response from Ronnie at Cloudbet to another user facing a similar ordeal. Ronnie claimed that they allow players in restricted territories to withdraw their deposits before closing their accounts. However, the results of any bets made are void. So why haven't I received my deposited funds back?
[...]

[Abzzy]

In my opinion, they did cost me 1BTC. I would never have dabbled on their website (eventually resulting in losses) if it weren’t for their marketing. In most first world countries there are strict rules with what you can and can’t advertise regarding gambling. It’s a sensitive subject given the amount of problem gambling that exists that’s ruining peoples lives. In this case, we have Cloudbets  maliciously false advertising with clear cut bad intent, any court would rule losses as a fault of the operator.

Being responsible with your spending is the most important thing. You see, I don't dance the ballet or need a brand-new BMW. No amount of advertising to pay for ballet lessons or buy a new BMW will make me spend money on that. And if I were to do it, I would have to look myself in the mirror and say this is my doing. I wanted that beautiful car I kept seeing on the billboards everywhere. 

Cloudbet didn't make you gamble. You made that decision. And you didn't do it with 10 or 20 AUD, you spent a whole 1 BTC on it. Now you are angry and want the money back. If you had turned that 1 BTC into 2 BTC, you would have been happy and maybe posted a nice review about the casino. Sorry, but I don't support the notion I was tricked into gambling because I saw advertisements about it that weren't supposed to be there. You wanted to gamble to win, but that didn't happen. It's a harsh reality but it's the truth.

This argument lacks depth. Buying a BMW and later regretting it is not comparable to the situation with Cloudbet..
What if the BMW wasn’t as described? What if the car salesman actively lied to you at point of purchase and you have evidence? What if the car you were ultimately sold was actually illegal to drive in your country?

Would you still sit there and blame yourself or somehow shift liability to the party who made false representations?

I can’t believe this is even a discussion.

Hi Lucius,

Warn players from my country? They did the opposite of that, lured us in which is why I believe they hold a fair amount of blame.

If you look at the screenshots I’ve posted, there’s website content targeted at Australians..
Theres also a screenshot of the chat operator falsely claiming that Cloudbet is licensed, regulated and fully compliant in Australia.

I also never used VPN. The way I found out I’m in a prohibited jurisdiction is when I lost access to their website, because the Australian government blocked the URL through the internet providers.

As I already wrote, it is something that you can definitely blame them for, but it still does not lead to anything because there is no element of scam, considering that you lost your deposit in a completely normal way by gambling at an online casino.

Be that as it may, you cannot ask for someone to give you back 1 BTC just because you think that they lured you to gamble in that online casino, you lost and come to terms with it. Next time, be more thorough in checking the casino before you make a deposit, so if you lose again, at least you won't have to feel scammed.

Based on your response, I can tell that you didn’t actually read the entire post and didn’t click on the links provided. This is far more than losing money and that I “think” I was lured in.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[Lucius]

Based on your response, I can tell that you didn’t actually read the entire post and didn’t click on the links provided. This is far more than losing money and that I “think” I was lured in.

First of all, don't post multiple posts in a row, it's against the rules of the forum - you can reply to the posts of several users in one post.


Regardless of everything, you can still ask the casino to return what you lost, especially if there is already a similar case that you can refer to, but it is obvious that they (the casino) will try to avoid it in all possible ways without breaking the law.

All you have to do is be persistent and use all available platforms in order to achieve what you want. Honestly, this is the first time I've come across a case like this, because first they allowed you to gamble even though by law you shouldn't have been able to, and now that you've lost you can legally ask them to return your deposit.

No matter how this case ends, everything that happened leaves the impression of unprofessionalism on the part of the casino, and I wonder if the Australian authorities will take any action, given that the casino operated completely illegally in Australia.

[Pmalek]

Regardless of everything, you can still ask the casino to return what you lost, especially if there is already a similar case that you can refer to, but it is obvious that they (the casino) will try to avoid it in all possible ways without breaking the law.

If it was the other way around and OP won his bets and withdrew his money successfully, do you think he would have returned the money if Cloudbet realized where he is from, that they made a mistake, and now want their winnings back? I don't think so. He most certainly wouldn't if they didn't take legal actions and sued him.

Cloudbet's wrongdoings in advertising and offering online gambling services to Australians should be a separate case from OP wanting back what he lost fair and square. They should face consequences for it. OPs request doesn't make sense to me. A world in which we can gamble, loss, and then ask for our money back because we were mislead and misguided.

Look around you. You are misguided by everything you consume. Awful food, sugar-infested beverages, alcohol, cigarettes, crappy technology you don't need... consumerism and false advertising on every street corner. Filter out the things you don't need in your life or live with the consequences. If you decide to gamble and lose, that's your problem. If you gamble and win but the casino won't pay you, you deserve your winnings and they are scammers. End of story.       

[AHOYBRAUSE]

Same old story.
OP is trying to freeroll cloudbet.

Even though I don't it's ok to advertise under false pretences it's also not ok to try to freeroll a site or person.
If you would have won money you would not complain here.

We saw that with other clowns trying to extort for example stake because they are not allowed to operate in Australia and yet they played from there. We saw saw anything rom the "big upcoming lawsuit" . 

You being in Australia has no impact on you losing your money. You bet on the wrong horse, chose the wrong number or whatever. That's solely your fault and you will net get 1 satoshi back.

So sick of these people here. There are members that have real problems with casinos but these kind of stories are just so boring.

[Abzzy]

Same old story.
OP is trying to freeroll cloudbet.

Even though I don't it's ok to advertise under false pretences it's also not ok to try to freeroll a site or person.
If you would have won money you would not complain here.

We saw that with other clowns trying to extort for example stake because they are not allowed to operate in Australia and yet they played from there. We saw saw anything rom the "big upcoming lawsuit" . 

You being in Australia has no impact on you losing your money. You bet on the wrong horse, chose the wrong number or whatever. That's solely your fault and you will net get 1 satoshi back.

So sick of these people here. There are members that have real problems with casinos but these kind of stories are just so boring.

You use terms like “free roll” and “extorting” . You disregard the ample amount of evidence online that Cloudbet don’t pay winnings when your playing from a prohibited jurisdiction, I even supplied an example in my post.
You ignore the fact that gambling is a REGULATED industry, given that an operators behaviour has serious impacts on a players decisions and his/her losses.

You ridicule “law suits” however Araxio was taken to court for this very same reason a few months ago, the court of Curacao executed foreign judgements and all players funds were to be paid, reason being the appropriate license was not held by the operator in the relevant jurisdictions Roelof Bijkerk was the lawyer, working with SBGOK, look it up.

He is the lawyer I’m currently dealing with, and he suggests funds would need to be paid back on the back of an Australian judgement - which is easily attainable yet time consuming.. I’m surprised that you know so much more about a players rights than legal representatives that have experience in this field and are based in Curacao.

I’m sick of people like you and the ignorant  blaming of the victimised players is getting boring.

Regardless of everything, you can still ask the casino to return what you lost, especially if there is already a similar case that you can refer to, but it is obvious that they (the casino) will try to avoid it in all possible ways without breaking the law.

If it was the other way around and OP won his bets and withdrew his money successfully, do you think he would have returned the money if Cloudbet realized where he is from, that they made a mistake, and now want their winnings back? I don't think so. He most certainly wouldn't if they didn't take legal actions and sued him.

Cloudbet's wrongdoings in advertising and offering online gambling services to Australians should be a separate case from OP wanting back what he lost fair and square. They should face consequences for it. OPs request doesn't make sense to me. A world in which we can gamble, loss, and then ask for our money back because we were mislead and misguided.

Look around you. You are misguided by everything you consume. Awful food, sugar-infested beverages, alcohol, cigarettes, crappy technology you don't need... consumerism and false advertising on every street corner. Filter out the things you don't need in your life or live with the consequences. If you decide to gamble and lose, that's your problem. If you gamble and win but the casino won't pay you, you deserve your winnings and they are scammers. End of story.       

In what world is, the wrongdoings in advertising and offering illegal gambling services a separate issue?
How did you come to the conclusion of losing “fair and square” when you just mentioned wrongdoings in advertising and illegal gambling services.

As per Cloudbets terms and conditions, betting from a banned jurisdiction gets your account closed and funds confiscated, so how exactly is baiting users in to breach your terms and conditions with false ads, to ultimately have the ability to close accounts and confiscate winnings betting  fair and square?

Also, all those examples you gave e.g awful foods, cigarettes and crap technology have a distinct difference and shouldn’t be given as examples, they are legal.