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Author Topic: How will SOPA in the US impact bitcoin globally if it passes?  (Read 2803 times)
Pistachio
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December 15, 2011, 04:08:38 PM
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Hi all,

My guess is it will initially boost bitcoin as other payment methods are squeezed out of online grey markets, but will turn in on itself when exchanges start to be blocked or even shutdown by US banks.

What do others think could be the potential impact of expanding US govt. policing of the internet with bills such as SOPA for bitcoin? Could bitcoin continue to thrive with even less liquidity with global currencies? Or, could these types of legislation somehow be good for the bitcoin economy?
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December 15, 2011, 05:46:32 PM
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SOPA mostly deal with online piracy, and pirates don't pay for the things they download. They didn't pay with fiat back then, and they are not going to start paying in bitcoins now.
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December 15, 2011, 06:16:32 PM
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SOPA mostly deal with online piracy, and pirates don't pay for the things they download. They didn't pay with fiat back then, and they are not going to start paying in bitcoins now.
Remember allofmp3.com?  A Russian online store selling all kinds of music from all artists and all labels in various unprotected formats.  The company never transferred any money to western copyright holders.

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December 15, 2011, 11:27:21 PM
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SOPA mostly deal with online piracy, and pirates don't pay for the things they download. They didn't pay with fiat back then, and they are not going to start paying in bitcoins now.
Remember allofmp3.com?  A Russian online store selling all kinds of music from all artists and all labels in various unprotected formats.  The company never transferred any money to western copyright holders.

Sorry I'm not following you. I made 2 points:
1. SOPA mostly deal with online piracy
2. pirates don't pay for the things they download

It looks like you're trying to refute point #2, but your refutation fails because you gave an example of a paid website, which pirates don't use (by definition).
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December 16, 2011, 12:10:44 AM
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SOPA mostly deal with online piracy, and pirates don't pay for the things they download. They didn't pay with fiat back then, and they are not going to start paying in bitcoins now.
Remember allofmp3.com?  A Russian online store selling all kinds of music from all artists and all labels in various unprotected formats.  The company never transferred any money to western copyright holders.

Sorry I'm not following you. I made 2 points:
1. SOPA mostly deal with online piracy
2. pirates don't pay for the things they download

It looks like you're trying to refute point #2, but your refutation fails because you gave an example of a paid website, which pirates don't use (by definition).
So what are people who bought songs from allofmp3.com called if not pirates?

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December 16, 2011, 12:53:28 AM
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I think that if people start to pay for pirate items, alongside with gambling and drugs, with Bitcoins, the Bitcoin price will just increase...

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December 16, 2011, 02:10:53 AM
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SOPA mostly deal with online piracy, and pirates don't pay for the things they download. They didn't pay with fiat back then, and they are not going to start paying in bitcoins now.
Remember allofmp3.com?  A Russian online store selling all kinds of music from all artists and all labels in various unprotected formats.  The company never transferred any money to western copyright holders.

Sorry I'm not following you. I made 2 points:
1. SOPA mostly deal with online piracy
2. pirates don't pay for the things they download

It looks like you're trying to refute point #2, but your refutation fails because you gave an example of a paid website, which pirates don't use (by definition).
So what are people who bought songs from allofmp3.com called if not pirates?

Customers? allofmp3.com was a scam but I don't think you can call the people who fell for the scam "scammers".
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December 17, 2011, 01:07:39 AM
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SOPA mostly deal with online piracy, and pirates don't pay for the things they download. They didn't pay with fiat back then, and they are not going to start paying in bitcoins now.
Remember allofmp3.com?  A Russian online store selling all kinds of music from all artists and all labels in various unprotected formats.  The company never transferred any money to western copyright holders.

Sorry I'm not following you. I made 2 points:
1. SOPA mostly deal with online piracy
2. pirates don't pay for the things they download

It looks like you're trying to refute point #2, but your refutation fails because you gave an example of a paid website, which pirates don't use (by definition).
So what are people who bought songs from allofmp3.com called if not pirates?

Customers? allofmp3.com was a scam but I don't think you can call the people who fell for the scam "scammers".
I really don't think not paying is part of the definition of piracy (even though it may be a large part of most pirates behavior).  Not being authorized to have the content (which is usually done by paying) is what makes you a pirate.  If you pay some random bootlegger at the flea market for a copy of a movie, you can't claim the movie is legit because you paid someone for it.

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December 17, 2011, 05:08:45 AM
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What do others think could be the potential impact of expanding US govt. policing of the internet with bills such as SOPA for bitcoin?

It's more relevant to Namecoin than Bitcoin IMHO.

The printing press heralded the end of the Dark Ages and made the Enlightenment possible, but it took another three centuries before any country managed to put freedom of the press beyond the reach of legislators.  So it may take a while before cryptocurrencies are free of the AML-NSA-KYC surveillance plague.
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December 17, 2011, 05:19:16 AM
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The most relevant aspect of this is Namecoin which would then have a direct economic stimulus to accelerate its adoption.

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December 17, 2011, 01:50:59 PM
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Hi all,

My guess is it will initially boost bitcoin as other payment methods are squeezed out of online grey markets, but will turn in on itself when exchanges start to be blocked or even shutdown by US banks.
How would SOPA lead to exchanges being blocked by banks? What is the connection?

Do not waste your time debating whether Bitcoin can work. It does work.

"Early adopters will profit" is not a sufficient condition to classify something as a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. If it was, Apple and Microsoft stock are Ponzi schemes.

There is no such thing as "market manipulation." There is only buying and selling.
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December 17, 2011, 04:01:50 PM
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SOPA mostly deal with online piracy, and pirates don't pay for the things they download. They didn't pay with fiat back then, and they are not going to start paying in bitcoins now.

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2011/12/seasonal-flame-bait.html says the piracy target is a diversion

Quote from: Charlie Stross
8. So I infer that the purpose of SOPA is to close the loop, and allow the oligarchy to shut down hostile coordinating sites as and when the anticipated revolution kicks off. Piracy/copyright is a distraction -- those folks pointing to similarities to Iranian/Chinese net censorship regimes are correct, but they're not focussing on the real implication (which is a ham-fisted desire to be able to shut down large chunks of the internet at will, if and when it becomes expedient to do so)

Doesn't lessen your argument, though.

Also: look at bitcointorrentz.com. Dunno if they're pirates, but people _do_ pay for downloads.

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December 19, 2011, 05:20:36 AM
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I can never understand what the hell these people are trying to say... Would the bitcoin network need to do this, if so how:

(b) Denying U.S. Financial Support of Sites Dedicated to Theft of U.S. Property-

(1) PAYMENT NETWORK PROVIDERS- Except in the case of an effective counter notification pursuant to paragraph (5), a payment network provider shall take technically feasible and reasonable measures, as expeditiously as possible, but in any case within 5 days after delivery of a notification under paragraph (4), that are designed to prevent, prohibit, or suspend its service from completing payment transactions involving customers located within the United States and the Internet site, or portion thereof, that is specified in the notification under paragraph (4).

...

(3) DESIGNATED AGENT-

(A) IN GENERAL- Each payment network provider and each Internet advertising service shall designate an agent to receive notifications described in paragraph (4), by making available through its service, including on its Web site in a location accessible to the public, and by providing to the Copyright Office, substantially the following:

(i) The name, address, phone number, and electronic mail address of the agent.

(ii) Other contact information that the Register of Copyrights considers appropriate.

(B) DIRECTORY OF AGENTS- The Register of Copyrights shall maintain and make available to the public for inspection, including through the Internet, in electronic format, a current directory of agents designated under subparagraph (A).

section 103 part b

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h112-3261
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December 20, 2011, 05:26:05 PM
 #14

How was allofmp3.com a scam (to consumers)?  Back when I was feeling guilty about not paying for stuff, I bought from them, and every time I bought an mp3, I received it, it was legit, it worked.
 
What was the scam?

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December 20, 2011, 05:34:22 PM
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How was allofmp3.com a scam (to consumers)?  Back when I was feeling guilty about not paying for stuff, I bought from them, and every time I bought an mp3, I received it, it was legit, it worked.
 
What was the scam?

The artists never received that money.  You'd have been better off pirating without paying allofmp3.  You were simply paying Russian criminals to send you the pirated goods.

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December 20, 2011, 05:46:11 PM
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Hi all,

My guess is it will initially boost bitcoin as other payment methods are squeezed out of online grey markets, but will turn in on itself when exchanges start to be blocked or even shutdown by US banks.
How would SOPA lead to exchanges being blocked by banks? What is the connection?

SOPA aims to not only allow the US to censor DNS records, but also halt payment processing for websites profiting from piracy. (much like financially strangling Wikileaks by prohibiting donations through Visa)  Websites currently charging for pirated content will likely then circumvent such restrictions by offering pirated content in exchange for Bitcoin instead.  This move will then focus attention by the MPAA and gov't enforcers on Bitcoin.  US-based exchanges will be the first target.

Bears.  Beets.  Battlestar Galactica.  Bitcoin.
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December 20, 2011, 05:48:09 PM
 #17

How was allofmp3.com a scam (to consumers)?  Back when I was feeling guilty about not paying for stuff, I bought from them, and every time I bought an mp3, I received it, it was legit, it worked.
 
What was the scam?

The artists never received that money.  You'd have been better off pirating without paying allofmp3.  You were simply paying Russian criminals to send you the pirated goods.

So then they're not much different than the RIAA companies? Cheesy

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December 20, 2011, 05:49:21 PM
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How was allofmp3.com a scam (to consumers)?  Back when I was feeling guilty about not paying for stuff, I bought from them, and every time I bought an mp3, I received it, it was legit, it worked.
 
What was the scam?

The artists never received that money.  You'd have been better off pirating without paying allofmp3.  You were simply paying Russian criminals to send you the pirated goods.

So then they're not much different than the RIAA companies? Cheesy
HAHA touché!

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January 05, 2012, 08:30:10 PM
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Quote
SOPA mostly deal with online piracy, and pirates don't pay for the things they download...
The point of SOPA isn't to stop online piracy (oh you thought the Patriot Act was patriotic?), it's to give legal authority for the government to censor online content.

Whether or not the content being censored is pirated or violates copyright law will eventually become irrelevant.  The government will just start censoring content it doesn't like.

Quote
"in fiscal year 2008, 62% of sneak-and-peek searches carried out by authorities under provisions of the Patriot Act were in cases having to do with illegal drugs. By comparison, only 0.4% of the Patriot Act sneak-and-peek searches in fiscal year 2008 had to do with terrorism."
http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2011/02/04/use-of-patriot-act-power-for-drug-war-skyrockets/

There will be no due process, no hearings, and little to no oversight.

Now that we understand what SOPA is, can we discuss its possible impact on bitcoin?


In my opinion, by the time the government realizes bitcoin will be a problem, it will be too late to stop it. However that does not mean they wont try.  They will most likely go after exchanges based in the US first, and probably scare any major retailers into dropping the currency.  This could have a dramatic effect, not on bitcoin, but on the US economy.

More bitcoin friendly economies will realize dramatic benefits from the currency and it will reach some level of equilibrium until the western nations begin to fully implode.  It will be interesting to see if bitcoin will fill the vacuum left by the USD, or if the powers that be will enforce bitcoin prohibition and force a new centrally controlled currency on the populace.

just my .02 btc
Wekkel
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January 05, 2012, 08:45:50 PM
 #20

Declaring BTC illegal will make it many times more interesting to people. Everything the government forbids, increases -fold in value (like drugs).

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