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Author Topic: DON'T mine to Antpool -- KYC imposed.  (Read 601 times)
mikeywith (OP)
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October 07, 2023, 02:45:21 AM
Merited by stompix (2), BitMaxz (1), ABCbits (1), Bitcoin_Arena (1)
 #1

So it's been a while since I visited my antpool page, and I found a bold warning saying "You have to KYC to use the mining pool", I tried to do some research on when all of this took place but found nothing on google, but it seems that this took place around July according to their telegram group.

Also according to their support on telegram they clearly stated

"Users need to pass the KYC before they can start mining."

Here is an image of that for future reference




Obviously, the above is a lie, because I just pointed a few miners to Antpool and I can see earnings accumulating, so they do allow me to mine there without KYC, the question now is, will they let me withdraw my BTC? I got some dust on the pool so it will take only a few hours to get to the minimum payout, there is a good chance I never get the payout but I want to test this so I can give you the answer with some evidence.


Meanwhile, if you are using Antpool, do yourself a favor and stop NOW.



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philipma1957
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October 07, 2023, 03:05:52 AM
 #2

Nice find. Makes sense they would do it. Yeah I am all about kyc as I am in the states and we are subject to taxes.

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October 07, 2023, 07:52:32 AM
 #3

Thanks for this interesting topic mikeywith, I don't like Antpool and haven't mined with them for a long time, so I wasn't even aware of this  Shocked. I think I have some dust too, I will do the same test on my side.

I don't understand why they're getting into this? Why would they?
They don't need to be regulated on most markets as a mining pool, so why take the initiative of making it mandatory only for them?
Are the dollars of our personal data the reason?

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Synchronice
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October 07, 2023, 08:40:13 AM
 #4

There is no official statement about KYC requirement but even if that was not the case, why should one joint Antpool?

  • It's already the biggest network, so, for decentralization purposes, it's better to join other pools.
  • Bitmain is a company that's against Bitcoin and they tried to promote their own fork, called Bitcoin Cash and were regularly misinforming everyone.
  • It doesn't share the collected mining fees to miners, so, all mining reward goes in their wallets

Aren't these reasons enough?

Nice find. Makes sense they would do it. Yeah I am all about kyc as I am in the states and we are subject to taxes.
Do you wanna stay in the states or haven't you thought about moving in other countries where life is cheap, crime is low and electricity is super cheap for bitcoin miners? If you are a big miner, I think you can do that. One of my friend successfully did that.

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Luke BookBear
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October 07, 2023, 09:05:18 PM
 #5

KYC for hardware mining... that's cRAzY!!!

I like the BTC,com Pool and ViaBTC,com pool.   I've mined on others too and even a Hathor merged mining pool called Zulupool (which is not bad when there's other hashrate on there aside from your own).
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October 07, 2023, 11:13:06 PM
 #6

What?
The madness that started off in exchanges is now getting to mining pools as well?  Shocked
Imagine the day when they start asking for one's source of income that was used to buy the miners blah blah blah...
I think the community needs to act in solidarity and abandon any mining pool that requests for KYC, otherwise if people just make it normal then more pools will also start doing the same.

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mikeywith (OP)
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October 08, 2023, 12:36:33 AM
 #7

I think I have some dust too, I will do the same test on my side.

I suggest that you don't, you will just risk more BTC doing that, as I said, I will do this and report back, there won't be any difference between your experience and mine, I did get to the payout limit and it's now 8 AM (UTC+8), their payout happens anywhere between 8:00-17:00 (UTC+8), so 9 hours left, if I get my payout it means the KYC is just there for legal show and isn't actually imposed, if I don't -- then they are serious about it.


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paid2
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October 08, 2023, 08:55:59 AM
 #8

I suggest that you don't, you will just risk more BTC doing that, as I said, I will do this and report back, there won't be any difference between your experience and mine, I did get to the payout limit and it's now 8 AM (UTC+8), their payout happens anywhere between 8:00-17:00 (UTC+8), so 9 hours left, if I get my payout it means the KYC is just there for legal show and isn't actually imposed, if I don't -- then they are serious about it.

Fair enough, I just checked my account, I am far from being able to withdraw my dust. I over-estimated the quantity of dust I own on the pool.

I would be very curious to know who is their KYC processor, which third party is involved. If they work with Jumio or IDnow for the EU users, they have to respect EU's GDPR, and I imagine that they won't..

Will try to investigate a little bit

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October 08, 2023, 01:24:03 PM
Merited by ABCbits (2)
 #9

I got my pool payout a few hours ago, but the KYC promt keeps showing everytime I login, this could be due to one of two:

1- The dust has been there before they starting imposing their stupid KYC so they allowed me to withdraw
2- They are not serious about it "YET".

I think they have been forced to follow some U.S stupid shit such as banning countries that are sanctioned by the UN aka the U.S such as Iran, Syria and all the none US friends, this pool has turned out worse than centralized exchanges, my guess, at one point they would start taking shit seriously and you won't be able to withdraw anything without KYCing yourself.

So if you have a considerable amount of dust, you might want to hurry up to hit the 0.005 BTC threshold and leave antpool, if the dust you got is not worth it, you should just leave the pool now.

I would also urge users who have Antpool as their second or third pool to switch to another pool, your funds on Antpool will very likely be locked unless you fully expose your identity and address to Shitmain.

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philipma1957
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October 08, 2023, 02:51:20 PM
 #10

I got my pool payout a few hours ago, but the KYC promt keeps showing everytime I login, this could be due to one of two:

1- The dust has been there before they starting imposing their stupid KYC so they allowed me to withdraw
2- They are not serious about it "YET".

I think they have been forced to follow some U.S stupid shit such as banning countries that are sanctioned by the UN aka the U.S such as Iran, Syria and all the none US friends, this pool has turned out worse than centralized exchanges, my guess, at one point they would start taking shit seriously and you won't be able to withdraw anything without KYCing yourself.

So if you have a considerable amount of dust, you might want to hurry up to hit the 0.005 BTC threshold and leave antpool, if the dust you got is not worth it, you should just leave the pool now.

I would also urge users who have Antpool as their second or third pool to switch to another pool, your funds on Antpool will very likely be locked unless you fully expose your identity and address to Shitmain.

And it will get worse due to Israel vs Palestine conflict during into a declared war.
So the USA will to supply Ukraine with arms was slipping.
and new conflict new reason to deal arms.

What is new China vs Taiwan?

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October 15, 2023, 10:37:53 AM
 #11

So if you have a considerable amount of dust, you might want to hurry up to hit the 0.005 BTC threshold and leave antpool, if the dust you got is not worth it, you should just leave the pool now.

Hobby miners with just a gear will probably just have to leave that there, if you're at half you need two extra weeks of mining, and you might not get a thing. But I doubt they will enforce it at levels of no KYC no money, probably they will just try and get rid of the small players that don't want to pass it pay them, and then simply tell them to stop mining, I don't think they are that interested in guys with under 1ph even if they would provide all the documents!

Now, if they go next level, how does proof of funds work with a mining pool?  Grin
They will ask you where you got your ASICs, how much did you pay for it and show them the import papers?
This will be funny! /s

I think they have been forced to follow some U.S stupid shit such as banning countries that are sanctioned by the UN aka the U.S such as Iran, Syria and all the none US friends, this pool has turned out worse than centralized exchanges, my guess, at one point they would start taking shit seriously and you won't be able to withdraw anything without KYCing yourself.

It was going to happen sooner or later, what will be really funny is when I'll see the first mixer imposing KYC, that's when I will probably choke myself laughing with a piece of fudge!
Antpool is done for, Foundry was never an option, I assume Binance is already full KYC since you need an account with them in the first place, Mara is private(?), Luxor is US based also, SBI is owned by former SoftBank, SBI Holdings so .....via and f2? Solo mining at ck?

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kano
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October 18, 2023, 12:40:09 PM
 #12

Nope, just do PPLNS mining at the pool that is best for bitcoin Smiley KanoPool
No transaction bias, no empty blocks, and the fastest block distribution of all pools Smiley

Pool: https://kano.is - low 0.5% fee PPLNS 3 Days - Most reliable Solo with ONLY 0.5% fee   Bitcointalk thread: Forum
Discord support invite at https://kano.is/ Majority developer of the ckpool code - k for kano
The ONLY active original developer of cgminer. Original master git: https://github.com/kanoi/cgminer
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October 19, 2023, 12:10:52 AM
 #13

Antpool is done for, Foundry was never an option, I assume Binance is already full KYC since you need an account with them in the first place, Mara is private(?), Luxor is US based also, SBI is owned by former SoftBank, SBI Holdings so .....via and f2? Solo mining at ck?

Yup, we are running out of options, that's a whole brand new fudge we got there.

Probably the time to make a community-owned PPS pool will come soon, I always thought it would be to fight decentralization but it seems to be now needed to protect privacy, an anonymous PPS pool would be an interesting idea, something like the old p2pool with a smart contract of users funds that acts as a pool fund to distribute rewards to miners where the people who provide liquidity get paid some %.


Nope, just do PPLNS mining at the pool that is best for bitcoin Smiley KanoPool

You are based in Australia as far as I know, what are the chances that you will be forced to implement the KYC b.s to your pool?

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paid2
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October 19, 2023, 12:25:24 AM
Merited by mikeywith (4)
 #14

Probably the time to make a community-owned PPS pool will come soon, I always thought it would be to fight decentralization but it seems to be now needed to protect privacy, an anonymous PPS pool would be an interesting idea, something like the old p2pool with a smart contract of users funds that acts as a pool fund to distribute rewards to miners where the people who provide liquidity get paid some %.

Couldn't pools in less restrictive locations just take over? Do we really have the risk of them all becoming KYC mandatory?

It's conceivable that some medium-ranking pools like EMCD for example could benefit from an influx of miners deserting the KYC-pools. I imagine that there must be people somewhere taking advantage of convenient local regulations, t least I hope that'll still be possible in a few years' time...

In any case, I agree with your idea of a p2pool with a smart contract guarantor, I think we're running out of privacy-friendly solutions. The same goes for hashrate renting, I think it would be a good idea to develop a P2P hashrate rental service with a price per share submitted.

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October 19, 2023, 09:27:52 PM
 #15

Couldn't pools in less restrictive locations just take over? Do we really have the risk of them all becoming KYC mandatory?

All of them becoming KYCed is probably not possible, but then if only 1-2 large pools end up not being KYCed -- that won't be good for decentralization, however, I think the world will somehow reshape itself at one point in the near future, as it stands right now, the main country that makes the universal rules is the U.S, if the U.S bans or imposes something, all of its followers (mainly west and center EU and the other countries that you all know) will have to follow the footsteps, with the current war in Ukraine, the BRICS, possible takeover of Taiwan, the war in Palestine, all of these things happening at the same time and as sad and devastating they are, it looks to me as a huge change is coming, the world will be less decentralized and enforcing monetary policies won't be as easy as it once was.

I expect some large BTC mining operations will take place in Russia, and some large Russian mining pools will emerge at one point as well.

With that said, I personally don't trust any government, whether it's the U.S., Russia, or my own government, and thus, a decentralized pool of some sort will be a must at one point.


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October 23, 2023, 09:23:20 AM
Merited by mikeywith (4)
 #16

In any case, I agree with your idea of a p2pool with a smart contract guarantor, I think we're running out of privacy-friendly solutions. The same goes for hashrate renting, I think it would be a good idea to develop a P2P hashrate rental service with a price per share submitted.

I also agree with idea of P2Pool (which is decentralized pool). While i expect it'll never be very popular due to full/prune node requirement and creating many small UTXO, P2Pool on Bitcoin should able to reach few percentage of total hashrate when P2Pool for Monero could have ~4.8% total hashrate.

[1] https://p2pool.observer/

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October 29, 2023, 02:29:09 AM
 #17

...
Nope, just do PPLNS mining at the pool that is best for bitcoin Smiley KanoPool
You are based in Australia as far as I know, what are the chances that you will be forced to implement the KYC b.s to your pool?
I'm not based anywhere.
The domain is Iceland, the servers are all over the world Wink
Zero chance of me requiring KYC.

P2pool died because of design issues and the poor code implementation.

Pool: https://kano.is - low 0.5% fee PPLNS 3 Days - Most reliable Solo with ONLY 0.5% fee   Bitcointalk thread: Forum
Discord support invite at https://kano.is/ Majority developer of the ckpool code - k for kano
The ONLY active original developer of cgminer. Original master git: https://github.com/kanoi/cgminer
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October 29, 2023, 09:31:43 AM
 #18

I also agree with idea of P2Pool (which is decentralized pool). While i expect it'll never be very popular due to full/prune node requirement and creating many small UTXO, P2Pool on Bitcoin should able to reach few percentage of total hashrate when P2Pool for Monero could have ~4.8% total hashrate.

[1] https://p2pool.observer/

Oh that will most likely fail, I probably picked the wrong example to describe the pool idea I had in mind, the pool is to be decentralized by ownership not the operation itself, an open-source project funded by a smart contract built on bitcoin blockchain or LN where the depositors of the pool get the pool fee distributed by them and they get to chose what does the pool look like and what code it runs.

Having to do anything tech related on the end user side will be deemed a project failure, it needs to function just like any other "normal pool" to have any chance of success.

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October 29, 2023, 02:43:21 PM
Last edit: October 29, 2023, 03:07:13 PM by mikeywith
Merited by ABCbits (2), paid2 (2)
 #19

But are there any mining pool which works like that out there? If yes, can you share any example.

There are none which is why it's just an "idea" or a proposal you may call it.


Quote
But on other hand, people or group who can setup many ASIC should able to setup P2Pool. Rechecking http://p2pool.in/, they just need one computer (to run both Bitcoin Core and P2Pool software) and point their ASIC to that computer's IP address.

Those who setup many ASICs are either:

1- Large enough to mine their own pool.
2- They don't care about KYCing themselves since you can't have a large mining business without KYCing yourself anyway.

The targeted users for such an idea are the average folks like us, people with a few THs/PHs worth of hashrate, which collectively have a good share of the total hashrate, we need to analyze what do these folks look for in today's mining world.

1- Most prefer no KYC.
2- Most want PPS pool (one of the reasons why P2pool failed).
3- No tech-related requirements, extra PCs, complicated setup (one of the main reasons why P2pool failed).

This makes the likes of Viabtc pool the most favorable, Viabtc is PPS based, and no individual setup is required.

However, given that Viabtc is a centralized and known entity, at some point they might have to impose the KYC shit as well, so what I propose is a pool that covers these 3 points, initially, I proposed to theymos that forum funds (which essentially are his anyway), the other similar idea is to have a community pool with decentralization ownership.

Now let's pretend that we want to create a mining pool with a 1% chance of going bankrupt and 4% fees (the current average PPS fees)

(6.25  *ln 100) / (2*0.04) = 360 BTC

So here, we need a fund pool of at least 360 BTC, but obviously, the smaller the fund the more risk + more rewards for the "investors" and vice versa, but let's for the sake of simplicity pretend that 360 people each with 1 BTC, everyone will get 1/360  of the 4% fee that the pool generates, 1000 people each deposit 1 BTC then each gets 1/1000 and so on.

Now comes the real challenge which is, who owns the piece of the software, or where does it run? who owns the server that runs it, this would require a similar implementation of the original Bitcoin nodes, where pool nodes will run on different servers owned by different people but the software is similar, and thus the work they send to the miners, the payout structure and everything else is the same, so it becomes like a large centralized pool with dozen nodes around the globe.

some of that 4% fee could be allocated to those who run the pool node or, as one might expect, given that people run full nodes for no direct financial gain, the same people would be willing to do the same thing with these pool nodes, especially that these nodes will not be anywhere as large compared to the full nodes.

Could something like this be easily implemented? certainly not, but will it become a necessity at some point in the future? probably.







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October 29, 2023, 03:12:48 PM
 #20

The US is taking it seriously. First, a bill that enforces using bitcoin only through KYC-only CEX. Now, this. The Bitcoin community needs to take advantage of the network being censorship resistant, and where information is "hard to stifle", as one had once said.

Now comes the real challenge which is, who owns the piece of the software, or where does it run?
Getting rid of the middleman is what's all about your proposal. If there needs to be a supernode for the network to operate, it can be regulated. I have no experience on mining, but can't there be a decentralized autonomous organization, as in Bisq? With Pay-per-share included using investors' funds at first.

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