Seedphrase security - Pros and Cons of offline storage

[headingnorth]

Of course offline storage of your seedphrase is usually the best means of keeping your seedphrase safe, but what are some potential drawbacks?

1. Someone could find it and steal it.

2. Someone could break into your house or your room where you have hidden it, find it and steal it.

3. You lose your seedphrase and never find it again, or you forgot where you hid it, etc

4. You or your wife/spouse do some housecleaning and accidentally throw it away.

5. Can be destroyed by fire or a natural disaster.

6. Other

=========================================

I'm thinking of using encrypted notes inside of more than one reputable open-source password managers.
So my idea is to break up the seedphrase in two or more parts. Each part gets stored in a different good password manager.  

So even if one of the password managers is somehow compromised, the thief only has part of your seed phrase which is useless without the other parts.


I plan to do a lot of traveling and even moving to another country but feel paranoid carrying around my seedphrase.
Customs agents can randomly search you and your luggage, and if they find your seedphrase they may be tempted to steal it from you.

I don't want to carry around my seedphrase on my person everywhere while traveling for fear of losing it or having it stolen.

Of course I could keep my seedphrase at home while traveling but if you are going to be away for extended time you start to worry if your seedphrase is going to be safe when you are not around.

I don't trust myself to be able to remember a long seedphrase, but I could remember two or three good passwords a lot easier.

Good idea or no?

[philipma1957]

you need

to realize

1) hiding a 24 word seed in three sets of eight solves that issue.

[adaseb]

I wouldn’t use any password managers. There was a leak a few years back, I think it was called Lastpass. Don’t rely on them.

Just put it somewhere safe like your bank security box or hide it somewhere in your home. If you are worried about a fire you can buy some seed stems and you can have it in metal that will withstand fire. Or you can take some pipe and just bang it in there with some letter stencils.

[philipma1957]

1+2 are basically the same issue and can be solved by three groups of eight seed words.

Number 3 is always an issue. Even if you put clues 🕵️‍♂️ in a few spots you can still screw up.

[MusaMohamed]

1. Someone could find it and steal it.

2. Someone could break into your house or your room where you have hidden it, find it and steal it.

At least, but important, you control it until a day you lost the control. It's better than storing it online by that you don't have any control and rely on many third parties to control security of your account, information inside it including your backup.

3. You lose your seedphrase and never find it again, or you forgot where you hid it, etc

Is it seriously?

Backups are strong tools to help you avoid those situations and when you make backup, you should have some backups, not only one.

4. You or your wife/spouse do some housecleaning and accidentally throw it away.

If you store your backups at locations where easily to be seen, your methodology is not good at beginning.

5. Can be destroyed by fire or a natural disaster.

Good backup methodology can help you. Multiple backups, multiple locations.
How to backup a seed phrase

[philipma1957]

4) you can hide your seed via emails . you send 24 emails to three emails.

each email has some seeds in it

5) my suggestion above in 4 prevents this.

[Zaguru12]

Of course offline storage of your seedphrase is usually the best means of keeping your seedphrase safe, but what are some potential drawbacks?

1. Someone could find it and steal it.

Same thing as keeping online, the online storage is even worse because it is exposed to almost every hacker on the internet.

2. Someone could break into your house or your room where you have hidden it, find it and steal it.

If a thief actually breaks into your house and requests for your seed phrase then that is no ordinary thief but rather someone close to you that you might have discuss your holdings with so the best will be to stay on a private about your holdings. And if the thief actually just sees Randomly then it was your lack of proper storage that caused it.

3. You lose your seedphrase and never find it again, or you forgot where you hid it, etc

This can be solved by having a one or two more back up but most importantly it will be hard if you actually have significant amount on that wallet because you will regularly remember and check that place.

4. You or your wife/spouse do some housecleaning and accidentally throw it away.

Why throw your seed around just anyplace in your house, it should be where your precious documents are.

5. Can be destroyed by fire or a natural disaster.

Solve this by using metal washers instead of paper and try to increase your backup to areas which faces less disaster if your place is not that secure

I'm thinking of using encrypted notes inside of more than one reputable open-source password managers.
So my idea is to break up the seedphrase in two or more parts. Each part gets stored in a different good password manager.  

So even if one of the password managers is somehow compromised, the thief only has part of your seed phrase which is useless without the other parts.

You don’t need to store them on a password manager just like you said it is bad but the best thing would be to use add a passphrase that you can remember and even the thief gets access to the seed phrase they would still need a passphrase who will be know to only you.

Splitting the keys in halves doesn’t help the thief and also you too, because should you lose the other half then it poses risk to the Wallet. Also with half the seed the thief could use a btc recovery tool

I plan to do a lot of traveling and even moving to another country but feel paranoid carrying around my seedphrase.
Customs agents can randomly search you and your luggage, and if they find your seedphrase they may be tempted to steal it from you.

I don't want to carry around my seedphrase on my person everywhere while traveling for fear of losing it or having it stolen.

Of course I could keep my seedphrase at home while traveling but if you are going to be away for extended time you start to worry if your seedphrase is going to be safe when you are not around.

I don't trust myself to be able to remember a long seedphrase, but I could remember two or three good passwords a lot easier.

Good idea or no?

You don’t need to carry it about when traveling just back it up properly at one place and the added passphrase should be with you that will save it.

Do not trust yourself to cram the seed phrase off heart, health conditions can change and will cause the lost of it

[Plaguedeath]

Here we go, someone who always trying to see a bad thing even it's really small and forget about every good thing.

#1 and #2, what's the difference with robbery who point your head with his gun and ask the password of your credit card/debit card or every assets you have? regardless you hold fiat, gold etc aren't nothing different.

#3 and #5, that's your fault, it's easy to prevent by back up your seed phrase more than one with different medias/tools.

#4, teach them and they will not do that.

[jossiel]

I'm off using these applications that are suggesting or keeping our passwords, it's not just right for me although they look helpful for someone who doesn't know about keeping passwords.

Anything that's related to finances, crypto and money, I wouldn't use these apps that are gonna keep my passwords, etcs.

They seem to be suggesting strong passwords but you'll never know if they keep backlogs of their users and then you'll just find it out that you've been lost and gone with as you've been used by them.

[headingnorth]

#1 and #2, what's the difference with robbery who point your head with his gun and ask the password of your credit card/debit card or every assets you have? regardless you hold fiat, gold etc aren't nothing different.

You can report your credit card lost or stolen and you will not be responsible for the unauthorized charges, and you don't lose a penny.
You can't do that with bitcoin or crypto. Once your bitcoin is lost it is lost forever and you cannot call someone at the bank to help you.

If someone robs you of your fiat money on the street you might lose a couple hundred dollars or something, not a big deal to lose such a small amount because
that's how much people carry around at most. Most people don't walk around with thousands or millions of dollars in cash they keep most of their money in a bank.

But a seedphrase could have someone's life savings stored in it, even millions of dollars worth of digital assets.
It is much easier for someone to steal a seedphrase than for them to break into your bank and steal all your money.

[Plaguedeath]

You can report your credit card lost or stolen and you will not be responsible for the unauthorized charges, and you don't lose a penny.

Trusting banks or centralized party is a mistake.

Theoretically the banks can reverse the money, but the reality they will not always refund it because they will asking more and more evidence to make you don't have any way to proof it.

If someone robs you of your fiat money on the street you might lose a couple hundred dollars or something, not a big deal to lose such a small amount because
that's how much people carry around at most. 

Why you can assume the robbery would do that on the street? criminality can happen in a house and I've pointed out above. People will choose to give everything they have rather than die.

But a seedphrase could have someone's life savings stored in it, even millions of dollars worth of digital assets.

Doesn't matter, the robbery will force you to give them the seed phrase.

[Strongkored]

All the points you mentioned can be avoided by making enough copies, storing them in a safety box or other place that will be difficult for anyone, including your partner or children to access.
In my opinion, the more afraid you are of losing it and trying things that look complicated, the more troublesome it will be later when something unexpected happens.

[Woodie]

Of course offline storage of your seedphrase is usually the best means of keeping your seedphrase safe, but what are some potential drawbacks?

I don't know about best  solution because we have all read stories of people losing these wallets and trying to get them back to the point of suing garbage collection companies and it's never a pretty scene.
AFAIK, best to go with what works for you especially that we live in different environments, different house setups and ease of others having access to personal space is something to factor in.
=========================================

I'm thinking of using encrypted notes inside of more than one reputable open-source password managers.
So my idea is to break up the seedphrase in two or more parts. Each part gets stored in a different good password manager.  

So even if one of the password managers is somehow compromised, the thief only has part of your seed phrase which is useless without the other parts.
Good idea or no?

I love the idea of breaking the seedphrase in several parts as this can be applied to both password managers and paper wallets , but in the hands of a crypto minded person if these 3 or 2 parts are  obtained then it's over for our coins.
Otherwise all these solutions have their own strengths and weakness.

[Isuru_]

Pros & Cons

-Hackers can't steal your seedphrase if it's not online.But thieves can
-Offline storage methods like metal plates and paper wallets can withstand a lot of wear and tear.Secure But like fire & other things gone a damage it
-You're the only one with access to your seedphrase.If another person find it , You lose

Do this

-Make multiple copies of your seedphrase and store them in different locations. (Or sites , notes , encrypted sites.)
-Use a durable storage medium, such as a metal plate or paper wallet.
-Choose a storage location that is safe from fire, water, and theft.
-Do not share your seedphrase with anyone.expect friends

[o_e_l_e_o]

1) hiding a 24 word seed in three sets of eight solves that issue.

Don't do this. It provides zero redundancy and greatly increases your risk of loss, not to mention still creates a single point of failure on creation and restoration of said seed phrase.

If you want to require access to multiple back ups in order to recover your wallet, then use multi-sig. Multi-sig effectively solves all five of OP's concerns. If you lose or throw away one back up, you can recover from the others. If a natural disaster destroys one back up, you can recover from the others. If someone steals one back up, not only can they not access your coins, but you can recover from the others. Need even more redundancy than that? Use 3-of-5 instead of 2-of-3.

[satscraper]

Of course offline storage of your seedphrase is usually the best means of keeping your seedphrase safe, but what are some potential drawbacks?

1. Someone could find it and steal it.

2. Someone could break into your house or your room where you have hidden it, find it and steal it.

3. You lose your seedphrase and never find it again, or you forgot where you hid it, etc

4. You or your wife/spouse do some housecleaning and accidentally throw it away.

5. Can be destroyed by fire or a natural disaster.

6. Other

=========================================

I'm thinking of using encrypted notes inside of more than one reputable open-source password managers.
So my idea is to break up the seedphrase in two or more parts. Each part gets stored in a different good password manager.  

So even if one of the password managers is somehow compromised, the thief only has part of your seed phrase which is useless without the other parts.


I plan to do a lot of traveling and even moving to another country but feel paranoid carrying around my seedphrase.
Customs agents can randomly search you and your luggage, and if they find your seedphrase they may be tempted to steal it from you.

I don't want to carry around my seedphrase on my person everywhere while traveling for fear of losing it or having it stolen.

Of course I could keep my seedphrase at home while traveling but if you are going to be away for extended time you start to worry if your seedphrase is going to be safe when you are not around.

I don't trust myself to be able to remember a long seedphrase, but I could remember two or three good passwords a lot easier.

Good idea or no?

Don't be too paranoid, Virtually almost all you have listed above is applicable to your body which is the most precious part of your life but you are just keep living.

Regarding SEED phrase. I see the most of your concern is what to do with it while  traveling.

There are a lot tricks that can help you.

Just a few examples.

You may fix SEED words in the  carry-on book. Don't forget to burn that book after end of your trip.

You may put your SEED inside indigestible capsule and swallow it. Don't forget to examine your dung  to find that capsule.

After all, you may memorize you SEED phrase and mutter  it under the  breath while travelling.

All is in your hands, just string-up imagination.

Cheese.

[Ayers]

I'm thinking of using encrypted notes inside of more than one reputable open-source password managers.
So my idea is to break up the seedphrase in two or more parts. Each part gets stored in a different good password manager.  

So even if one of the password managers is somehow compromised, the thief only has part of your seed phrase which is useless without the other parts.

Any storage method whether offline or online will have pros and cons and nothing is 100% secure. Your method may be a good way to deal with hackers but it is also risky, if you forget your password or cannot access one of your many password managers, you will not be able to access your bitcoins. Your method will make things more complicated because you'll need to remember more passwords as well as find a place to store passwords for your password managers. I really don't like this idea.

[so98nn]

I think you are making it way complicated. I am already having 3-4 different wallets that includes one hardware wallet and other paper based wallet plus (going to change soon) mycelium wallet. I have properly stored the seed phrases by writing them down on paper in the perfect sequence I received. I have made one digital copy as well and have stored them in password protected drive. I don’t think you need any further security for your seed. If you are going to be “too” careful about it then you will definitely end up making mistakes and then my friend that’s gonna be Issue someday. Just keep it simple and traditional. Let us not try to make a big deal on how to store them safely.

Just Store it in similar ways you save your gmail password or password for gf or bf Instagram account. 

[pooya87]

I'm not a fan of digital storage of anything secret, such as using a password manager. A hard copy is the best solution and if you want encryption, then you can still store the physical copy of the encrypted seed phrase.
Besides, the only case when a thief that enters your home is going to steal your seed phrase is if they are specifically targeting you for your bitcoins which means you shouldn't let anybody know you are storing your coins this way! Otherwise thieves are always looking for valuable things they "understand" like jewelry, cash, your TV, etc. They don't really know the value of some words on a piece of paper or better yet if it were written on a page inside a book in your bookshelf.

[legendbtc]

ut if you are going to be away for extended time you start to worry if your seedphrase is going to be safe when you are not around.

I don't trust myself to be able to remember a long seedphrase, but I could remember two or three good passwords a lot easier.

Good idea or no?

If you can't trust yourself to remember the seed phrase, how can you be sure you'll remember or store your 3 passwords well? You can't guarantee that you'll keep one seedphrase well, you can't do better when you have to keep three passphrases. Your idea is not new, many people have proposed it and discussed it a lot, but in reality it is much more complicated and risky. I still prefer to use offline methods to store my seed phrases, they are safer when they are always with me rather than having to trust online and 3rd parties.