A more scientific mindset is necessary to avoid scams.

[jeraldskie11]

I think it's not necessarily to have that kind of mindset to avoid scams in crypto. Scams are everywhere that's why we always have to do a research of the project we are going to invest. It's not that hard to identify if the project is legit or scam especially if you've been doing that for a long time. No matter how much time you've spent to research a project if it's real, you can't be sure that it's scam 100% because honestly projects can explode through hype even though it's not promising. A good example of that is the meme coins. In my opinion, experience and discipline is far better than scientific mindset.

[slaman29]

slaman29-You have made a claim, so where is your scientific evidence to back up this claim?

My claims are very very well documented. I'm surprised wanting to discuss the topic you don't know this (thus proving my claim that educated and academics are not foolproof).

Here are some research based evidence that any village guy can google:

Barclays: young educated most likely to fall for scams.

FINRA & Stanford: People who never expected to be scammed often are scammed and are among the most vulnerable. Yes, that means most of us, who think we are so clever, are most likely to get scammed lol People ask me why I am so skeptical and expect scams, this is why.

[taufik123]

-snip-
taufik123-And that is why we should talk about the probability of getting scammed since being an 'intellectual' is no guarantee that one is completely immune to scams.

Yup, what is the meaning of "Intellectual" if they can still be deceived, it's about the human mind that is still full of greed and sometimes can't think properly about what is being done.
Considering the fraud business as a business that will generate a lot of profit.
No one is truly immune to fraud, unless they don't do any work.

Note For OP:
It is better for you to use the "QUOTE" Feature to answer each member's comments here,
so that it is easier and looks more neat with the order of the discussion.

Reading a whitepaper is enough information to avoid scams.
-snip-

Reading the Whitepaper will never be enough to avoid scammers.
Fraudsters are smart and have a variety of ways to commit fraud including by making Whitepapers look genuine with projects that look real.

Especially now that using AI makes a good whitepaper easier and faster.

To avoid fraud, there must be detailed research to know whether the project is good or not.
There are many things that need to be examined including the team or developer behind it and several partners who work together.

[jvanname]

"Bitcoin is not scientific research, so obviously it will just incorporate the most secure algorithm available at the time it was developed."-Um. The Bitcoin whitepaper has many citations, so I would consider that a significant scientific advancement. But Bitcoin's mining algorithm was never designed to advance science even though this is possible (don't try to argue with me because you do not know the details and I am done talking to you about the details), so that is a scientific setback which has attracted a lot of chlurcmks and chlurmcklets to the cryptocurrency ecosystem. But the idea that Bitcoin mining should not be used to advance science at all is completely and utterly asinine and is a signal of a very low level of intelligence.

"I wouldn't be surprised if a new algorithm comes out and is stronger, without a ton of drawbacks, people will fork or move to that."-No they won't. Bitcoiners do not care about science because they have a low level of intelligence. And the scientific advancement will not make the transactions go quicker or be more secure. And the Bitcoin community has proven that it is too !@#$ing inept to properly evaluate the claims of a scientific mining algorithm.

"Besides how does it help to avoid scams even if satoshi or others make a new algorithm? Most retail users don't really care about the nitty-gritty tech."-Scam victims are usually victims of a disease called stupidity. If Bitcoin had a mining algorithm that were designed to advance science, then not only would we have more science in the world, but Bitcoin will attract better people than it does, and those better people would be less likely to fall into the dumbest scams ever.

"Where does this hating science narrative come from? Due to the fact that many disprove the narrative that mining consumes a lot of energy or produces a ton of waste? That doesn't make sense. Most arguments that they bring to disprove this also use scientific research. Why would anyone hate science if it can improve Bitcoin or help its adoption?"-It only makes sense to people who are smarter than you.

wxa7115-The good news is that the Bitcoin whitepaper completely explains how Bitcoin works. It is a well written and quite understandable paper to those who are intelligent enough to understand anything about anything. So we should not just read the whitepaper to learn about the claims but about how the technology works and whether the way the technology works seems plausible. The Bitcoin whitepaper seems plausible from reading it and it works in practice too, so that is good enough for me, but the mining algorithm was not designed to advance science, so I cannot invest in Bitcoin.

-Joseph Van Name Ph.D.

[tvplus006]

... It's not that hard to identify if the project is legit or scam especially if you've been doing that for a long time. ..

Obviously you are making such a conclusion because you have only encountered scam, which was obvious and did not even require research. But if professionals such as Bernard Madoff¹ take up the case, then such a scam has been very difficult to identify for 40 years.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Madoff

[DVlog]

What will happen to those who don't have a scientific mindset? Your title makes me nervous that I may be in danger. I am working on various projects as a community mod so i have seen a lot of scam attempts and methods commonly used by scammers. What I think is most important is to have common sense and control over your greed to avoid scams. Most of the time it is our greed that leads us to a scam.

[jeraldskie11]

... It's not that hard to identify if the project is legit or scam especially if you've been doing that for a long time. ..

Obviously you are making such a conclusion because you have only encountered scam, which was obvious and did not even require research. But if professionals such as Bernard Madoff¹ take up the case, then such a scam has been very difficult to identify for 40 years.
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Madoff

Honestly, most of those very promising projects are actually scams. That "too good to be true" project. First of all, it will be difficult to identify if this is really legit or not because they put in a lot of effort and you can even say that it is more legit than other successful projects. I was also one of the victims of that before, so now I've learned something and should be more aware, always research the project you're going to enter even if you think it's legit. Same on the individual you mentioned above.

[el kaka22]

You need to be smart. That's literally the simplest and shortest summary of all of this and there isn't really need for anything else. If you are a smart person then you would see a scam a mile away, it's been ten years since I am in this market and never been scammed once ,that has to be mean something, am I a genius?

Of course not, I am just an ordinary person with some curious mind and that means instead of wanting to believe something just because I want to believe it, I rather not believe anything until proven otherwise. That's the scientific mind, because in science you do not accept a thing just to accept it, you have to prove it and have some sort of paper on it, and after that then you can accept it and work better as well.

Scams are too obvious, just do not believe anyone until proven otherwise and you are going to be doing fine, everyone is a scammer and everyone wants to scam you, that's the start point, then you can move further to reality later on.

[gunhell16]

Everything you said can be summed up in one sentence: "Do your own research." If you don't, the chances of becoming a victim of a fraudster are extremely high. Why do we think about con artists? Are they ignorant or intelligent people? Of course, those people are intelligent; it's only that their intelligence was misapplied due to their wealth.

You will not be easily duped if you become an observant person and are sensitive to your surroundings, especially the stranger who will speak to you. People are vulnerable to scammers and exploiters since they don't know anything.

[mirakal]

 No need for science to come in. If you really understand the type of investment you are doing, then you wouldn't be susceptible into committing scams. Even regular people with less scientific knowledge will eventually know that the certain thing would likely to turn into scam or not just by assessing the trend that it follows, I mean by looking if its too good to be true to happen or not. And by being too greedy to expect for quick profits from your investment, most likely you will be easily lured from the traps of the scammers.

Scamming is not new anymore, and as long as there are people who let themselves being fool and lured, scammers will continue to exist. But if people will try to be more cautious in every investment that they try to take risk, then most probably the rate of scamming will be minimized.

[uswa56]

No need for science to come in. If you really understand the type of investment you are doing, then you wouldn't be susceptible into committing scams. Even regular people with less scientific knowledge will eventually know that the certain thing would likely to turn into scam or not just by assessing the trend that it follows, I mean by looking if its too good to be true to happen or not. And by being too greedy to expect for quick profits from your investment, most likely you will be easily lured from the traps of the scammers.

Scamming is not new anymore, and as long as there are people who let themselves being fool and lured, scammers will continue to exist. But if people will try to be more cautious in every investment that they try to take risk, then most probably the rate of scamming will be minimized.

I think it is only possible to minimize it, not to eliminate it because it will never disappear in this world, all fraud in various ways will continue to be carried out by bad people, but we have to be observant and think realistically to avoid this.
And in my opinion, one way to avoid this fraud is to have knowledge so that we can think realistically and scientifically, apart from that I think there is none, that's why extensive knowledge is very important.

[jvanname]

What will happen to those who don't have a scientific mindset? Your title makes me nervous that I may be in danger. I am working on various projects as a community mod so i have seen a lot of scam attempts and methods commonly used by scammers. What I think is most important is to have common sense and control over your greed to avoid scams. Most of the time it is our greed that leads us to a scam.

-Well, it takes a little bit of computer science knowledge to read the Bitcoin whitepaper, so if you have gone that far, then you probably have a good amount of knowledge to see what may or may not be a scam. But I mentioned a scientific mindset instead of scientific knowledge or scientific experience since one will need this mindset to test the claims being made.

slaman29-You have made a claim, so where is your scientific evidence to back up this claim?

My claims are very very well documented. I'm surprised wanting to discuss the topic you don't know this (thus proving my claim that educated and academics are not foolproof).

Here are some research based evidence that any village guy can google:

Barclays: young educated most likely to fall for scams.

FINRA & Stanford: People who never expected to be scammed often are scammed and are among the most vulnerable. Yes, that means most of us, who think we are so clever, are most likely to get scammed lol People ask me why I am so skeptical and expect scams, this is why.

-That is fair enough. Although there may be some confounding variable that explains why the educated are more likely to be scammed. On the other hand, academic institutions have taught me to distrust them very much because they are so unprofessional, so I would not be too surprised if the chlurmcks who have graduated from these institutions are too inept to avoid scams. Maybe this means that educated people should humble themselves and acknowledge that they are not immune to scams and they also need to apply a scientific mindset to determining what to invest in. Are the people with science degrees more or less likely to be scammed than those with liberal arts degrees? What about those with business and marketing degrees?

Everything you said can be summed up in one sentence: "Do your own research." If you don't, the chances of becoming a victim of a fraudster are extremely high. Why do we think about con artists? Are they ignorant or intelligent people? Of course, those people are intelligent; it's only that their intelligence was misapplied due to their wealth.

You will not be easily duped if you become an observant person and are sensitive to your surroundings, especially the stranger who will speak to you. People are vulnerable to scammers and exploiters since they don't know anything.

-Yes. People need to do their own research and be exceptionally skeptical of others and all claims that others make especially in the cryptocurrency ecosystem. Unfortunately, the cryptocurrency ecosystem has attracted too many bad actors.

No need for science to come in. If you really understand the type of investment you are doing, then you wouldn't be susceptible into committing scams. Even regular people with less scientific knowledge will eventually know that the certain thing would likely to turn into scam or not just by assessing the trend that it follows, I mean by looking if its too good to be true to happen or not. And by being too greedy to expect for quick profits from your investment, most likely you will be easily lured from the traps of the scammers.

Scamming is not new anymore, and as long as there are people who let themselves being fool and lured, scammers will continue to exist. But if people will try to be more cautious in every investment that they try to take risk, then most probably the rate of scamming will be minimized.

-A scientific/security mindset of verifying and distrusting others is needed for anyone who wants to invest in cryptocurrency technologies. For example, I have been skeptical about my own cryptographic algorithms even after implementation that I have developed quite a few novel machine learning algorithms based on the spectral radius in order to evaluate the cryptographic security of these algorithms (but I am not done with this yet since I need more hardware). But it may be difficult to truly tell whether a project is worthwhile or not because most people have low levels of intelligence.

-Joseph Van Name Ph.D.

[slaman29]

slaman29-You have made a claim, so where is your scientific evidence to back up this claim?

My claims are very very well documented. I'm surprised wanting to discuss the topic you don't know this (thus proving my claim that educated and academics are not foolproof).

Here are some research based evidence that any village guy can google:

-That is fair enough. Although there may be some confounding variable that explains why the educated are more likely to be scammed. On the other hand, academic institutions have taught me to distrust them very much because they are so unprofessional, so I would not be too surprised if the chlurmcks who have graduated from these institutions are too inept to avoid scams. Maybe this means that educated people should humble themselves and acknowledge that they are not immune to scams and they also need to apply a scientific mindset to determining what to invest in. Are the people with science degrees more or less likely to be scammed than those with liberal arts degrees? What about those with business and marketing degrees?

It's funny that you mention first about scientific mindset, then me showing evidence (scientific) that that very thinking and training actually doesn't make you less vulnerable (in fact quite the opposite) gets you saying you distrust peer-reviewed work.

You're right though I agree, we should be skeptical towards everything but I think sometimes educated and crypto people think too highly of themselves, and can't even consider the possibility that they could be scam victims. Further blinded by greed they fall into traps.

I think if you use crypto without that underlying desire to make money, that, rather than the scientific mindset, is what avoids scams as all scams target greed.

[Fakhrulenclix]

No need for science to come in. If you really understand the type of investment you are doing, then you wouldn't be susceptible into committing scams. Even regular people with less scientific knowledge will eventually know that the certain thing would likely to turn into scam or not just by assessing the trend that it follows, I mean by looking if its too good to be true to happen or not. And by being too greedy to expect for quick profits from your investment, most likely you will be easily lured from the traps of the scammers.

Scamming is not new anymore, and as long as there are people who let themselves being fool and lured, scammers will continue to exist. But if people will try to be more cautious in every investment that they try to take risk, then most probably the rate of scamming will be minimized.

I think it is only possible to minimize it, not to eliminate it because it will never disappear in this world, all fraud in various ways will continue to be carried out by bad people, but we have to be observant and think realistically to avoid this.
And in my opinion, one way to avoid this fraud is to have knowledge so that we can think realistically and scientifically, apart from that I think there is none, that's why extensive knowledge is very important.

Yes, it will not be possible to eliminate fraud from this world and in my opinion almost everyone has committed fraud for various reasons that they have created, whether for good or just to benefit the fraudster. I really agree with you that we can only avoid fraud committed by other people and it is very important for us to have a little knowledge about anything to be able to avoid fraud and also we have to get along with anyone regardless of their status so that we have a lot of experience in the field. life so that if someone wants to deceive us, we can easily find out and we can avoid the fraud.

[danherbias07]

That's one hell of a long explanation comparing and combining science and cryptocurrencies.
It is not how I got into cryptocurrencies or more precisely Bitcoin.
Here I can manage my own investment, it doesn't need science to do that. Let's just say I got so tired of how hard it is to invest with other types of investments, finding a broker, and then letting them manage it all while it's your money that is on the line, and the worst thing is, you are paying them expensive prices just to handle all those things.
Here, I don't really need them. A financial advisor might be enough to give me some pointers on how I could manage my money and then everything will be up to me if I want to trade it or just keep it as an asset and let it grow in value in the long run.
Regarding scams, well I think this forum had a big share in repeating all the necessary guidelines to avoid them. There are so many threads created about it, some of them are real stories of members who got scammed big time by making a wrong decision.
Sometimes you cannot avoid them, there are promising projects that sweet talk their way to urge many investors and they cannot be stopped.

[Finestream]

I think it's not necessarily to have that kind of mindset to avoid scams in crypto. Scams are everywhere that's why we always have to do a research of the project we are going to invest. It's not that hard to identify if the project is legit or scam especially if you've been doing that for a long time. No matter how much time you've spent to research a project if it's real, you can't be sure that it's scam 100% because honestly projects can explode through hype even though it's not promising. A good example of that is the meme coins. In my opinion, experience and discipline is far better than scientific mindset.

Scamming is not part of this natural world, hence science should not be applied. It's only when innovation takes its place, scamming has become so rampant. But I don't see a need for scientific mindset to predict scams and avoid it in the process.

We all know that scamming is everywhere right now. That is the reason why instead of quick decision making and judgement, extensive research is what need to do. By trying to know the background of every platform or investment, and learning from the experiences of other people, then we can minimize the scenario of falling ourselves into the scammer's trap.

[Kasabus]

You don't need to think more deeper about that since scams are obvious if you see that they are offering such to good to be true returns to their investor then that is really shady and potentially that could be turn as scam. Also if we see them act weird like promising that what they are doing is really profitable then if you invest to them then you can also generate money then try to see it if this is sustainable since if this is obvious money gathering scheme and what they do is just pure bullshit then you can avoid to get away with those scammers. We just need to have critical thinking here to avoid them and know what are those realistic way to earn money. But some fail to have or do that since what always came up on their mind is there's easy way for them to earn money that's why they need to be aware of any ponzi schemes system so that they can familiarize and avoid them.

By educating oneself about the different methods of scammers these days, and opening our eyes to the reality of legit investments that everything is gained through hard work and patience, then predicting scams would be easier for us especially if we already see the red flags in a certain investment. If we are seeing everything is too good to be true, then most probably scam is waving. We need to take our hands off immediately when that time happens.

Furthermore, there's no need for a scientific mindset to let us know that in front of us is a scam. The fact that it offers rich quick profits more than any other legit and reliable investments, then we can say loud and clear that it's a big scam and so we need to avoid it immediately.

[beerlover]

It's funny that you mention first about scientific mindset, then me showing evidence (scientific) that that very thinking and training actually doesn't make you less vulnerable (in fact quite the opposite) gets you saying you distrust peer-reviewed work.

You're right though I agree, we should be skeptical towards everything but I think sometimes educated and crypto people think too highly of themselves, and can't even consider the possibility that they could be scam victims. Further blinded by greed they fall into traps.

I think if you use crypto without that underlying desire to make money, that, rather than the scientific mindset, is what avoids scams as all scams target greed.

Quite interesting, I didn't read the articles that you shared, you just gave names and not any links and I didn't want  to go search for them so I assume that you are right. But scientific and "smart" doesn't really sound like they are the same things.

One of the examples you gave says "young educated", what is the education? Are we talking about engineers from MIT or are we talking about "English literature from Ohio state" because those are different stuff, and just because one is considered "educated" just because they went through the education system, doesn't mean they know scientific method, as in checking the proof, most didn't even studied anything related to science, what if they studied arts? And the other is just least expected, so not even talking about education there.

[slaman29]

It's funny that you mention first about scientific mindset, then me showing evidence (scientific) that that very thinking and training actually doesn't make you less vulnerable (in fact quite the opposite) gets you saying you distrust peer-reviewed work.

You're right though I agree, we should be skeptical towards everything but I think sometimes educated and crypto people think too highly of themselves, and can't even consider the possibility that they could be scam victims. Further blinded by greed they fall into traps.

I think if you use crypto without that underlying desire to make money, that, rather than the scientific mindset, is what avoids scams as all scams target greed.

Quite interesting, I didn't read the articles that you shared, you just gave names and not any links and I didn't want  to go search for them so I assume that you are right. But scientific and "smart" doesn't really sound like they are the same things.

One of the examples you gave says "young educated", what is the education? Are we talking about engineers from MIT or are we talking about "English literature from Ohio state" because those are different stuff,

Please look at my post again. I linked both studies that I cited (But if you had Googled them they would be very easy to find).

Look, the point is not to argue about being precise about what kind of degree makes you likely to get scammed, if Stanford did the research you must assume they have high standards for maximizing objectivity.

and just because one is considered "educated" just because they went through the education system, doesn't mean they know scientific method, as in checking the proof, most didn't even studied anything related to science, what if they studied arts? And the other is just least expected, so not even talking about education there.

Dude this is why you need to read before commenting. The definition being cited exactly means those who got a degree.

The point, which seems to be lost for most people commenting, is that educated people think because of their education (which requires them to study with scientific mindset right?), they won't get scammed but this exact thinking gets them scammed. You did a degree? Doesn't matter arts, which I did. You know to do dissertation, you must use quantitative or qualitative methods. Arts and humanities use a lot of qualitative research. It's STILL a scientific method!

It's funny, all the nonsense arguments about definition etc and everybody missed the point that people in crypto get scammed and mainly because they think they're too clever to be scammed.

[bettercrypto]

When we talk about scam projects, we can't help thinking that it's too good to be true. Why do we say this? because when someone offers $100, they will make it $200 after 1 week. When the ROI they say is like that, please stop believing in such systems.

Don't allow yourself to be wild, greedy for money, or have the mentality of a quick-rich scheme. This has been happening for several years, and I hope that no one gets scammed or cheated just because of such scams, so that they don't fall victim again.