The PATRIOT Act comes to cryptocurrency

[Abiky]

At this point, if you want to trade between two cryptocurrencies, use a DEX. No reason to use CEX for this unless you're chasing pennies.

Onramp - offramp is a bit more difficult though. From what I've gathered, people use Telegram P2P channels for these kind of dealings (gee, this makes me miss pre-2019 Localbitcoins even more).

The thing is not everyone is willing to buy/sell crypto P2P using Fiat. There's the risk of getting scammed/robbed by an unknown person. In some sense, CEXs are safer because you're dealing with a "trusted entity". I guess that's why most people prefer a CEX over a P2P exchange. For crypto-to-crypto trades, DEXs are a no-brainer. They might have a slight learning curve and lower liquidity than CEXs, but at least they don't require ID verification (KYC) to use them.

I really hope we find a safe and reliable way to exchange crypto and Fiat in the long run. Once that problem is solved, there would be no need to use CEXs at all. Tighter regulations = more decentralization and less criminal activity. Who knows what the future holds for the entire crypto/Blockchain industry?

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[apogio]

There's the risk of getting scammed/robbed by an unknown person. In some sense, CEXs are safer because you're dealing with a "trusted entity". I guess that's why most people prefer a CEX over a P2P exchange.

What if you deposit FIAT, buy BTC and then the CEX blocks withdrawals? You take this risk, even if you don't realise it you depend on CEX being honorable, which is not always the case.

[o_e_l_e_o]

However, when it comes to trading, regardless of all the decentralized options, we still have the "problem" that we have to use centralized services when it comes to the deposit/withdraw of fiat funds

You definitely don't have to. I've traded bitcoin exclusively peer to peer for years, and it is easier today than it has ever been before.

Of course, there is always the possibility of face-to-face trading, but that brings with it some other risks that many do not agree to.

I hear this repeated a lot on the forum, yet I've never had a single issue with face to face trades. As long as you are using a proper P2P exchange such as Bisq to set up the trade and not just finding some random scammer via social media, and you take standard security measures, then you are no more at risk from a face to face trade than you are any time you go out in public:

You are really at no more risk than you are most of the time you go out in public. Anyone on the street could be a criminal out to rob you. People carry cash, bank cards, a mobile phone, jewellery, keys for their car, keys for their house (with their address probably visible on some piece of ID in their wallet), tablets, laptops, and all manner of valuable objects. Lots of things which are far more valuable than a few hundred bucks of bitcoin.

Every time you use an ATM, someone could be waiting with a weapon to relieve of your cash. Every time you step out of a store, someone could rob you of whatever you just bought. Every time you park your car, someone could beat you up for your keys and ride off. A face to face bitcoin trade is really no different.

Take standard precautions and you will be quite safe:

• Choose a highly rated trading partner
• Don't share unnecessary personal info
• Obscure your appearance (easily done in this time of face masks for everyone)
• Arrange your meeting during the day in a busy public location - choose somewhere with CCTV if you want, like a large shopping mall
• Bring a friend with you
• Only bring the amount of money (bitcoin or fiat) that you are trading
• If legal in your jurisdiction, bring some kind of weapon for self defense

In some sense, CEXs are safer because you're dealing with a "trusted entity".

Remind me what is "trusted" about CEXs, exactly? Literally every single one has experienced data leaks or hacks in the past. Dozens have exit scammed. Dozens have gone bankrupt. Dozens more were simply corrupt from the start. More have shutdown. More are currently be fined billions of dollars for illegal behavior. All have arbitrarily locked accounts and frozen coins. They've been caught insider trading, stealing your money, dumping their own bags on their users, listing scams, running fractional reserve, and more. And if you are lucky enough to avoid all of that, you get absolutely ripped off with outrageous fees.

I trust any one of my peer to peer trading partners exponentially more than I trusted the sheer greed of centralized exchanges.

[bbc.reporter]

@Lucius. The government has always been fear mongerers to control and manipulate the population under jurisdiction. They do not car about the truth or what is real because behind this there is an agenda to gain more power and control over you and me.

Also, this is not about whether the politicians put bitcoin and altcoins under one basket, this is about the government's agenda to remove self custody from any type of digital currency. If a government cannot control a type of money then the government cannot control the people that uses them.

Of course, it is always about controlling the masses, and if you control the central mechanism on which you have made them dependent, then the majority behave as if they are in the collective consciousness. Any deviation from the usual ways of behavior puts you on the black list and increased supervision of Big Brother. Resistance is futile is obviously the message they want to send, but it never worked and it won't even now.

This is how they might also do it and I have said this many times in my threads. The government in America and much of the world will support and make their favored centralized stablecoin issuers to be their bridge on controlling how much inflows and outflows enter or leave the cryptospace. This will also give them the power to do something similar to what Tether has done. Freeze assets of their holders over allegations without proof.



Crypto firm Tether said on Monday that it had frozen $225 million worth of its cryptocurrency which it said had been linked to a human trafficking group in Southeast Asia.

Source https://www.reuters.com/technology/crypto-firm-tether-says-it-has-frozen-225-mln-linked-human-trafficking-2023-11-20/

[Lucius]

Of course, there is always the possibility of face-to-face trading, but that brings with it some other risks that many do not agree to.

I hear this repeated a lot on the forum, yet I've never had a single issue with face to face trades. As long as you are using a proper P2P exchange such as Bisq to set up the trade and not just finding some random scammer via social media, and you take standard security measures, then you are no more at risk from a face to face trade than you are any time you go out in public:

I think it also depends on the country you live in, and not only because of the mentality of the people, but also the total population. It may sound strange, but it is not the same if you live in a country with 300+ million people or in a country with 100 times less people where it is much harder to protect your privacy. The higher the price of BTC, the more people are willing to do anything to get it easily.

[l8orre]

I have not read the full thread yet, and will catch up on this over the next few days.

In the meantime, I can't refrain from mentioning that there is an impressive number of privacy oriented projects in the crypto space, which is the way to go.

Including DEXes, SC platforms, mesh networks, naming systems, etc.

Currently I am wondering if this is a forum for a real discussion or if there are Maxi Mullahs already adapting their heresy Fatwahs against all that is not BTCBTC that may appear in the discussion...  

[Abiky]

I have not read the full thread yet, and will catch up on this over the next few days.

In the meantime, I can't refrain from mentioning that there is an impressive number of privacy oriented projects in the crypto space, which is the way to go.

Including DEXes, SC platforms, mesh networks, naming systems, etc.

Currently I am wondering if this is a forum for a real discussion or if there are Maxi Mullahs already adapting their heresy Fatwahs against all that is not BTCBTC that may appear in the discussion...

There may be an impressive number of privacy-oriented projects, but they're still the minority. We can blame mainstream governments for that. Their misinformation and false propaganda have led people to believe that obfuscating their transactions is a very bad thing. Shutting down centralized mixers, and going after non-custodial mixers by sanctioning it  tells us governments really don't want people to get true financial freedom and privacy. By enforcing KYC across all centralized exchanges, they hope to control the on/off ramps between the crypto and Fiat worlds.

All we have left are DEXs and P2P exchanges. You will end up paying a higher premium by using these alternatives, but it's worth it. Especially when you don't need to provide your personal info to use them. If governments' efforts are rendered useless, they might "ban" crypto altogether. There's no reason to be concerned about this, as long as decentralization wins in the long run.

[franky1]

All we have left are DEXs and P2P exchanges. You will end up paying a higher premium by using these alternatives, but it's worth it. Especially when you don't need to provide your personal info to use them. If governments' efforts are rendered useless, they might "ban" crypto altogether. There's no reason to be concerned about this, as long as decentralization wins in the long run.

if using DEX for real world fiat(meaning bank deposits not stable coins) be warned.. if you or the other users of DEX you trade with may be doing ALOT of trades via their bank account but under the guise of personal payments. banks will see these people as operating a money service business and will request they formalise as a MSB and do the compliance or stop operating. they will ask for explanations for all the payments.

this has been the case with localbitcoins.com users years ago. and look what happened to most of those traders

[Abiky]

if using DEX for real world fiat(meaning bank deposits not stable coins) be warned.. if you or the other users of DEX you trade with may be doing ALOT of trades via their bank account but under the guise of personal payments. banks will see these people as operating a money service business and will request they formalise as a MSB and do the compliance or stop operating. they will ask for explanations for all the payments.

this has been the case with localbitcoins.com users years ago. and look what happened to most of those traders

That's the disadvantage of using Fiat. It leaves a trail that quickly helps governments obtain your true identity. Avoiding banks altogether would be the way to go. Unfortunately, the world is still stuck with the Fiat standard. The vast majority of salaries are paid in Fiat, while most merchants and/or businesses accept only Fiat currencies as payment method. If this keeps up, we will never be able to live a truly-anonymous life with crypto.

Fortunately, not all hope is lost. As long as decentralization wins, it will be difficult (if not impossible) for governments to enforce regulatory action. This new "PATRIOT Act" by the US government is a blatant attempt to increase surveillance/control over centralized exchanges. It won't have any effect over DEXs, P2P trading platforms, nor non-custodial mixers. Who knows how crypto (especially Bitcoin) will fare in the future?