Will you leave the country or will you stay, stand up and fight for your right?

[Davidvictorson]

Yesterday, I read a topic about the PATRIOT Act by o_e_l_e_o. In summary, the PATRIOT Act seeks to criminalize regular Bitcoin activity and transactions like mixing. For those who think it is a U.S. thing, please think again. The U.S. wields a lot of influence all over the world. We may most likely see its financial regulations being enforced by other countries. But this is not about that. This is about American Bitcoiners. Some of them, with whom I have spoken, say that this law which is agaist their constitutional rights will force them to leave the United States of America since the law is unfavorable to them. I have a question for them: Will you leave the country or stay and stand up and fight for your right?

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

[1715294912]

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[blckhawk]

Even if we will eventually saw that influence, it's going to take a long time because US can't directly meddle in other countries' sovereignty even if they want to, the best thing that you can do in this situation is either get out of mainland USA and go to one of its territories, maybe even go to the Caribbean and get a remote work that you can do anywhere around the world, a lot of expatriates are doing this already so do it now before they see that it's a loophole.

[Aanuoluwatofunmi]

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

The earlier the better for the government to realize that bitcoin is not their enemy, it had rather come to help them with every of their financial unfinished businesses, there's no any law that will stand against bitcoin, if they couldn't achieve such over fourteen years now i don't think they can anymore, the good aspect of it is for their proposal not to stand, if not everywhere you go through will always carry the same regulations on bitcoin.

[Eternad]

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

Definitely not. I’m from 3rd world country which probably leaving my country as not advisable due to more financial problem. I’d rather sell all my Bitcoin rather than change country that has high cost of living. Choosing another 3rd world country is not my alternative choice either since finding new job will be hard unlike in my country which I earn decent amount.

I can live without Bitcoin but I can’t live properly on other country with different culture. It’s too much adjustment for me just to avoid being persecuted by owning Bitcoin while I can sell all my holdings before this law implemented since government gives advisory before they implement new harsh law in my country.

[Jawhead999]

Why there are only two options? there's the third option: stay in the country and stay private.

Leaving a country just because your country aren't friendly with Bitcoin isn't a good choice because moving to the other country is really hard due to different culture, language, place, people etc. While stay, stand up and fight for your right is a something stupid since you're risking your life to go jail.

[tranthidung]

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

Nothing can achieve without efforts and fights so if you want not only you but your children, grand children have a better life, more freedom, sure you must stay and fight for what you believe is better.

The cost is sometimes very expensive especially if you are living in countries without freedom, no actual democracy, where dictators and their regimes with strict laws can harm your life a lot.

In digitalized space, your fight can be easier and you don't have to risk your life for fighting if you can stay anonymous.

[philipma1957]

Hey I am 66 my wife is 67. We are not poor but we are not rich.
I was born in the U.S.A. I pay my taxes. My mom worked for the I.R.S. 24 years My wife worked for the I.R.S. for 33 years.

I get 2 federal pensions from the USA government.
My wife get 1 federal pension from the USA government.
Our health care is directly linked to the U.S.A. government.

For me to replace all of the above I need 100btc at 34500 each or 3.45 million USD.

So obviously I am not fighting or running I don't have anywhere near 25btc no less 100btc.

So I am staying U.S.A. based and simply paying taxes while I report everything.

In fact I am now advertising a mixer and carefully prepping to pay taxes on my mixer earnings. I am afraid to use the mixer

service.

As I could lose my federal pensions

But U.S.A. does allow for free speech so I have  decided to do my part by doing a mixer signature.

 I feel it does show support to people that want privacy and do not want poor tax policies.

[Zanab247]

You don't need to leave your country for some law be imposed to citizens or BTC users because it will make you to lose so many things that your generation will need to fight since you run away for such issues in your country. The way I saw the case going in the court, I get confident on that case that it will favour bitcoiners and it will bring  more opportunities that will increase bitcoiners in the country because, some don't want to show their faces as a bitcoiners until those bitcoiners involved in the case ssucceed and be favour from  court before they will come out openly as a bitcoiners.

If this government allow bitcoiners to be persecuted because of this law, it will surely affect some of their politicians in the country because there is no way bitcoiners will support any presidential candidates again, and it will cause many to loose their presidential election.

[philipma1957]

You don't need to leave your country for some law be imposed to citizens or BTC users because it will make you to lose so many things that your generation will need to fight since you run away for such issues in your country. The way I saw the case going in the court, I get confident on that case that it will favour bitcoiners and it will bring  more opportunities that will increase bitcoiners in the country because, some don't want to show their faces as a bitcoiners until those bitcoiners involved in the case ssucceed and be favourfrom  court before they will come out openly.

If this government allow bitcoiners to be persecuted because of this law, it will surely affect some of their politicians in the country because there is no way bitcoiners will support any presidential candidates again, and it will cause many to loose their presidential election.

Look as a guy that has a family history of IRS work I now feel the USA government has lost its way when it comes to taxing.

The USA has not had a plus budget in over 22 years.  Which means it uses taxes as an arm of the law to punish people not as a way to better people.

[hugeblack]

Depending on the extent of the impact of Bitcoin on your life and income, if the impact is direct and may cause you to lose your source of income, you may be forced to travel to a second country and try to start over, which is what happens with capitalist companies and individuals, as they prefer to go to other countries that have cheaper taxes or cheap workers, and they will do exactly that with Bitcoin. .
As for individuals, I do not think that most of us consider Bitcoin as a sole source of income, and therefore if your situation is good, you will consider keeping your Bitcoin and waiting several years until it has great value.

[Lida93]

Hey I am 66 my wife is 67. We are not poor but we are not rich.
I was born in the U.S.A. I pay my taxes. My mom worked for the I.R.S. 24 years My wife worked for the I.R.S. for 33 years.

I get 2 federal pensions from the USA government.
My wife get 1 federal pension from the USA government.
Our health care is directly linked to the U.S.A. government.

For me to replace all of the above I need 100btc at 34500 each or 3.45 million USD.

So obviously I am not fighting or running I don't have anywhere near 25btc no less 100btc.

So I am staying U.S.A. based and simply paying taxes while I report everything.

In fact I am now advertising a mixer and carefully prepping to pay taxes on my mixer earnings. I am afraid to use the mixer

service.

As I could lose my federal pensions

But U.S.A. does allow for free speech so I have  decided to do my part by doing a mixer signature.

 I feel it does show support to people that want privacy and do not want poor tax policies.

You don't have to flee away from your country counting on all the benefits you have enlisted above concerning you. The truth is that if we decide to run away from our country because of a law made by the government that didn't favour us then that means we'll keep running never stopping cause what makes you think you won't encounter in future another unfavourable law(s) in the country you might be running to.

It's a father-land and that gives us more stands to stay and fight when things are going wrong, alien citizens won't fight for us. And another thing, having to go through the hassle and  process of adapting to a new environment starting a new life else where isn't so simple.

From what I have read the case is in court yet to be giving verdict (correct me if am wrong), so it's possible the citizens might when because it's a matter of privacy which is a right.

[Davidvictorson]

Look as a guy that has a family history of IRS work I now feel the USA government has lost its way when it comes to taxing.

The USA has not had a plus budget in over 22 years.  Which means it uses taxes as an arm of the law to punish people not as a way to better people.

Absolutely true. Taxation which is basically taking my hard-earned money from my work without consent is theft by force. It is no different from braking into my  apartment and stealing my some pairs of Nikes sneakers out of my closet.

[un_rank]

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

Moving with a family is not something easily done or the decision made by one party. It also needs heavy funding to be successful which is not available to everyone. This drops the chances of anyone moving cause of these laws to below 1%.

The two most realistic options is to either accept the regulations and live with it or reject the regulations and stay completely off the radar.

- Jay -

[ImThour]

When things like these occur, I personally feel bad for those who are influencers and are publicly named and government agencies knows that these people are the one supporting Bitcoin or Crypto in the country so they will be the biggest targets of these rules or laws. For most of us, or those who are anonymous, they will be good to go and I am not sure why would anyone be fighting for something which is not going to be implemented at all.

[TheUltraElite]

When the paranoia is high the method to clear it is to see that you keep your feet on the ground.

Just count your options, you have a family you have a future and you need to survive, so either you can die fighting or you can accept the KYC system that may come up and continue to use bitcoin and live a happy life.

I am also not a fan of KYC but consider why you would not want to undergo it. Unless you are involved in money laundering yourself, you can be proud of your bitcoin and how you earned them. The KYC debate has been going on for long, and I dont find any fruitful discussion from it which is why I dont comment. But regulation is the future and this is how things might start off.

Mixers are their main target, small cap investors need not bother, in my opinion.

I personally am not from the US and I doubt how far this will actually go.

[Agbe]

This is a big question to be answer by all and not for one country. I know that USA is one of the major if not the number one country that practice TRUE DEMOCRACY, and in true democracy there is liberal democracy and in the liberal democracy the citizens have the right to do want they think is good for them and make them happy. And I learn this from US Democratic State. Running is part of human survival, so if the pressure from the government is high, then they (bitcoiners) have to look for a way to survive from the pressure then return later when the pressure has calm. All these Patriot Act is to threaten the bitcoiners to stop using bitcoin since they (government) cannot control the coin and they are seen that the value is higher than US dollar. So they are working a modality to control or stop the coin. But irony will be their case. But the way I am seeing things people might jail because of the bitcoin. But victory is sure.

[Sim_card]

I wouldn't leave my country because of this, instead, I will pipe low and act as id U don't have any bitcoin since I have a family and I also have a job here in my country. It is very hard to travel to somewhere no to start life all over again when it is not that you went to the country on a job invitation. The cost of living might be higher in that country that you want to run to and this might affect your standard of living and even your personal life and that of your family. There are many factors that needs to be considered before running away from your country fue to some government laws on bitcoin. We were doing fine when bitcoin wasn't in existence.

[kryptqnick]

It's a proposal even in the US, so assuming that it will spread as a legislative approach far beyond the US might be premature for now.
The US has been pretty tough in terms of crypto regulations (tougher than many other countries), but it doesn't seem like its approach is adopted by others much. My country is pretty dependent on the US support right now, but I don't think it would adopt the US crypto policies, for example, because my country actually wants to become very crypto-friendly.
If I lived in the US, I'd wait to whether the proposal actually gets adopted before making any decisions. Honestly, I think op is a bit overreacting. And the US is a democracy, so it's not a problem to organize protests, gather petition signatures, etc.

[NeilLostBitCoin]

Will you leave the country or stay and stand up and fight for your right?

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

It depends on the amount of Bitcoin in my wallet. If my Bitcoin funds are sufficient to sustain living in another country, why not?
It seems like there aren't many options for those who are financially struggling. I plan to exchange my Bitcoin and search for a new source of income to support my livelihood in our country while also adhering to government regulations such as KYC. I am not involved in any illegal activities except for the use of Bitcoin, so I will remain here and comply with the law.

[headingnorth]

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.


Apparently, we are now in the "fight you" phase.

There are many strong supporters of bitcoin in the US Congress who will fight back against these draconian proposals.

[Majestic-milf]

 Running has never been known to solve any issues and with how bad the economy is, who knows how the economy of the place you want to move onto will be like? The best thing is to stay and fight for your right because these laws are aimed at targeting the growth of Bitcoin, they will not stop coming at it with rules, laws and restrictions till they feel they have subdued it but I feel that the earlier they realize the true intention and aim of Bitcoin, the better. Else they'd keep seeing Bitcoin as the enemy.
 Most Americans are aware that this law will put them in a tight corner, making them choose between moving from the country or having to undergo the KYC. The best option for me is to do it, after all it won't affect my using it but won't stay quiet because if you do, more laws that seek to press Bitcoin will come up.

[Zlantann]

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

Migrating to another country can be very expensive especially if you have a young family. Leaving my country because of this law will depend on so many factors with my financially position as my main consideration. As much as I don't want to give away my privacy but I will be forced to remain in the country because I don't have enough money. Aside mixers there are still other means of maintaining my privacy , I might try other options and see how it works.
I am assuming that standing to fight means peaceful demostration or lobbing the government to change these polices. But there is no way you can protest or lobby the government without losing your privacy. You would have to come out to protest and you would have to meet a politician to lobby. However the law is still a proposal, we have to wait to see if it will be passed into law.

You don't need to leave your country for some law be imposed to citizens or BTC users because it will make you to lose so many things that your generation will need to fight since you run away for such issues in your country. The way I saw the case going in the court, I get confident on that case that it will favour bitcoiners and it will bring  more opportunities that will increase bitcoiners in the country because, some don't want to show their faces as a bitcoiners until those bitcoiners involved in the case ssucceed and be favour from  court before they will come out openly as a bitcoiners.

If this government allow bitcoiners to be persecuted because of this law, it will surely affect some of their politicians in the country because there is no way bitcoiners will support any presidential candidates again, and it will cause many to loose their presidential election.

As much as I know many Bitcoiners want to remain anonymous. The government owns or runs the court so I doubt if the legal system will favour the fight for privacy. Don't also forget that many centralsed platforms will be happy if this law is enforced.The best option is to seek for alternatives.

[Lorence.xD]

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

Definitely not. I’m from 3rd world country which probably leaving my country as not advisable due to more financial problem. I’d rather sell all my Bitcoin rather than change country that has high cost of living. Choosing another 3rd world country is not my alternative choice either since finding new job will be hard unlike in my country which I earn decent amount.

I can live without Bitcoin but I can’t live properly on other country with different culture. It’s too much adjustment for me just to avoid being persecuted by owning Bitcoin while I can sell all my holdings before this law implemented since government gives advisory before they implement new harsh law in my country.

Same case here, if I were to leave from my country as a part of 3rd world country, I don't think 1 Bitcoin would be enough to live for a year as you will still adjust from the new environment and doesn't have any idea to budget your funds. In this case, selling would be better, and those funds you'd sell just use it to invest another like trying to build a small business or other alternate options such as real estate, etc. Since we're already involved in currencies and money so engaging in risky investment would be average for us, but still we need to gather knowledge before starting your own business. In my country, I think this would be impossible issue since Bitcoin is not that casually used by people or you won't hear them in our daily lives. So for sure government doesn't have their attention as they focused on other issues of the country.

[taufik123]

Banning American Bitcoiners?
Will all of them be detected or only those who are caught red-handed or claim to be Bitcoiners?

The government will not be able to track everyone who uses Bitcoin,
they will be anonymous as long as they do it properly.

A law that discriminates against Bitcoiners would just be a useless law.
They just want the taxes paid by Bitcoiners and some Mixer platforms that will provide more profits.

As my Grandpa @philipma1957 said:
Taxes are only used as a tool to punish someone, punish for not obeying the rules that are made.
limiting all kinds of fun and privacy with Bitcoin, not to fix things that are getting worse.

-snip-
The USA has not had a plus budget in over 22 years.  Which means it uses taxes as an arm of the law to punish people not as a way to better people.

[Obari]

Well, there are several ways we can fight for a anything without actually causing a scene or violence and bitcoin is decentralized which means no one is in charge except you and in cases like this, I don’t think running is an option as there are other several ways you can stop stay safe while holding your coins and personally I’m not from the states neither do I know how things are been ran there but I will use my country and myself as a case study because though the restrictions on cryptocurrency and bitcoin was for the banks not getting involved with any cryptocurrency transaction but the local police especially the sars department are already making it seems holding bitcoin is illegal as you’re forced to unlock your phone but yet we still have to also device other methods to still hold our coins without getting into issues.

[Wiwo]

Since I am not a citizen of the US but relating this to my own situation,  first I will wait to see what the extent of the law and see if holding Bitcoin at all becomes a crime which is impossible since Bitcoin in your own wallet can not be traced,  but then also the focus of the regulation in the US is not against bitcoin in it entirety but against the use of bitcoin mixer which most of the US legislators and other prominent bitcoin advocates have referred to as a bad actors,  since the use of bitcoin mixer have aided the cancellation of legal money and is mostly used by hackers and other cyber criminals.

So if the fight is against criminality in the system and ways to tax every Bitcoin holder in the US,  it means that many of the citizens will obey and ride along with the government instead of becoming a refugee and r going into exile like a fugitive.

[Twentyonepaylots]

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

The earlier the better for the government to realize that bitcoin is not their enemy,

It's not something they should be realized of, because it is really not in the first place. If the government's reason why they are doing that is because of its high potential medium for money laundering, then its a total BS. Everything has its own advantage and disadvantage, and it is one of bitcoin but it is not enough to really fight against it especially that the government is not running a single person.

it had rather come to help them with every of their financial unfinished businesses, there's no any law that will stand against bitcoin, if they couldn't achieve such over fourteen years now i don't think they can anymore, the good aspect of it is for their proposal not to stand, if not everywhere you go through will always carry the same regulations on bitcoin.

I'm fine with the regulations they are trying to make around with cryptocurrency, but I think it is really fair for everyone who uses or not, for it to be regulated just so the government has a point touch of it. I hope they realize that this isn't something they should be prioritizing because there are more bigger than this matter.

[Sophokles]

This question can be tricky for many of the bitcoiners because it's not only about the bitcoiners themselves, it's about their families as well. If whole family need to leave the country then we need to consider whether is that really worth for that bitcoiner to leave the country for the amount of bitcoin he is holding right now. Also where will they go and what if that country implement similar law as US does?

[Crypto Library]

Well, I am belong from a third world country and Bitcoin or cryptocurrency is illegal here already. My country has records of people going to jail just for bitcoin transactions. Even though they are not associated with any scam, they are labeled as scammers.
So here I left out the rule of law.  If we talk about the support of Bitcoin here, it will be seen that we will get a scammer sign then forcibly taken to jail for being involved in a scam. I will stay the way I am now because even if I raise my voice it will be seen as an invasion of my privacy. From the middle you can only see that you want to ruin your life.  But till now I don't have that much btc that will create a interest to me for leaving my home land.

[Rruchi man]

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

It will be better to leave peacefully than trying to stand up and fight. It is difficult to fight the government, so the action should be to leave peacefully and wait for there to be a change if you ever plan to return. Do not fight battles that you cannot win, and this is a good example of a battle that you cannot win.
 
Do not try to be a martyr.

[m2017]

Yesterday, I read a topic about the PATRIOT Act by o_e_l_e_o. In summary, the PATRIOT Act seeks to criminalize regular Bitcoin activity and transactions like mixing. For those who think it is a U.S. thing, please think again. The U.S. wields a lot of influence all over the world. We may most likely see its financial regulations being enforced by other countries. But this is not about that. This is about American Bitcoiners. Some of them, with whom I have spoken, say that this law which is agaist their constitutional rights will force them to leave the United States of America since the law is unfavorable to them. I have a question for them: Will you leave the country or stay and stand up and fight for your right?

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

Do you know many bitcoin freedom fighters whose actions led to success, to the point that governments heard their words and changed the rules laws according to their demand desire? I don't know of a single case where governments have made concessions to such martyrs. Why do you expect the bitcoin-martyrs to be given an exception?

A single voice will certainly not be heard and such voices will be ground into dust by the system. Fight (non-violently), if possible, is only possible collectively. But everyone who has a little bitcoin and is of sound mind will try to leave for a more BTC-loyal system, which is why there will be fewer and fewer votes, and with that the chances that these voices will be heard.

If they remain, then only a few Bitcoin martyrs will remain, but they will not be able to change anything in their favor.

[coolcoinz]

First of all, I highly doubt this is going to pass. There are so many bitcoin supporters in the US Senate that it doesn't stand a chance, just like many other anti bitcoin acts that democrats tried to push in the recent years. I also doubt that the next president is going to be a democrat. Most of them are crazy socialists that say they support freedom and democracy but then lock people in their homes and want to inject them with untested medicine against their will, ban cash and make all of them use digital dollar.

I don't live in the US but if this was enforced I'm sure there would be states that would not agree to it, just like there were states that voted for the right to mine bitcoin and against the ban that democrats supported. I wouldn't have to leave the US, I'd simply move to a state that still stands by principles the US was founded on.

[mvdheuvel1983]

I know Americans as one of the most brave and resilient people on the planet earth. They are not weaklings. I know that they will stay and fight. They will do it for their kids and kids kids. In the end, bitcoin is going to prevail. We know that this is a strategy of the government to be in control. I am not surprised. Some one said this already that BlockRock is the government. I still believe their aim is to control the a large portion of the world's bitcoin. We will see some versions of the PATRIOT Act coming up in other countries. But American bitcoiners must fight. It is the only country you have and can call your own.

[mirakal]

Yesterday, I read a topic about the PATRIOT Act by o_e_l_e_o. In summary, the PATRIOT Act seeks to criminalize regular Bitcoin activity and transactions like mixing. For those who think it is a U.S. thing, please think again. The U.S. wields a lot of influence all over the world. We may most likely see its financial regulations being enforced by other countries. But this is not about that. This is about American Bitcoiners. Some of them, with whom I have spoken, say that this law which is agaist their constitutional rights will force them to leave the United States of America since the law is unfavorable to them. I have a question for them: Will you leave the country or stay and stand up and fight for your right?

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

You can't fight with your own state and stand for your own right. You'll only end up as a martyr and still end up being persecuted. So the best thing to do is just to leave your country because its not healthy anymore if you stay. While bitcoin is important for you, your self-worth is much important as well. Just leave your country and be at peace to another country where bitcoin is widely accepted and is not attacked by its own law.

However, I can't imagine that just by simply hodling bitcoin, the scenario will go this far. It only proves that bitcoin has no place in a selfish country where all the officials develop the greed for money as if its the main reason why they are still living.

[Vaculin]

Yesterday, I read a topic about the PATRIOT Act by o_e_l_e_o. In summary, the PATRIOT Act seeks to criminalize regular Bitcoin activity and transactions like mixing. For those who think it is a U.S. thing, please think again. The U.S. wields a lot of influence all over the world. We may most likely see its financial regulations being enforced by other countries. But this is not about that. This is about American Bitcoiners. Some of them, with whom I have spoken, say that this law which is agaist their constitutional rights will force them to leave the United States of America since the law is unfavorable to them. I have a question for them: Will you leave the country or stay and stand up and fight for your right?

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

If you can leave the country for good without affecting your family, then probably it could help you live at peace. However, living the country means preparing your family for a new set of cultures and starting all over again which I think is actually hard to process. So I don't think it's a good decision either. But if you chose to stay and live your life without declaring that you have bitcoins with you, then maybe it could be safer for you and fopr your family.

Bitcoin is still decentralized and no other third party can trace its transactions if you just do it privately. So just do it for now.  For sure, when  majority of the other countries are into bitcoin adoption, I guess USA will also follow the path and that you're totally free to do your bitcoin thing without any threat.

[nurilham]

Why there are only two options? there's the third option: stay in the country and stay private.

OP may think there should be 2 common options (leave or stay).
If you stay, it means you take the second option. You can hide your Bitcoin activity but it means you never do anything to struggle the rights of Bitcoiners there. OP expected that there is a direct response to the laws.

Leaving a country just because your country aren't friendly with Bitcoin isn't a good choice because moving to the other country is really hard due to different culture, language, place, people etc. While stay, stand up and fight for your right is a something stupid since you're risking your life to go jail.

Yes, leaving means to avoid the fact in our country. We may live better in a new country but we never contribute anything to solve the problem in our country. It is not about adaptation to a new country, it is about pride. Well, just avoid any actions that risk to the jail. Fighting with the wrong laws can be done with varied ways.

[Sanitough]

Yesterday, I read a topic about the PATRIOT Act by o_e_l_e_o. In summary, the PATRIOT Act seeks to criminalize regular Bitcoin activity and transactions like mixing. For those who think it is a U.S. thing, please think again. The U.S. wields a lot of influence all over the world. We may most likely see its financial regulations being enforced by other countries. But this is not about that. This is about American Bitcoiners. Some of them, with whom I have spoken, say that this law which is agaist their constitutional rights will force them to leave the United States of America since the law is unfavorable to them. I have a question for them: Will you leave the country or stay and stand up and fight for your right?

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

This is putting a hard time on bitcoin enthusiasts. Why on earth that there are really countries who are giving a hard time for their citizens when all their main goal is actually to serve them, and no to cause harm and ruin them. 

But if I'm one of them, I don't think leaving the country is a wise decision. You are only making them feel that they can easily control and manipulate their citizens the way they want. I'd better stay and continue with bitcoin but only myself is aware about that. There's no need actually to tell the whole world that you are into bitcoin. It's enough that you are doing it privately so you can have all the freedom to do what you want without those eyes from the government that will monitor your actions.

[Mahanton]

Yesterday, I read a topic about the PATRIOT Act by o_e_l_e_o. In summary, the PATRIOT Act seeks to criminalize regular Bitcoin activity and transactions like mixing. For those who think it is a U.S. thing, please think again. The U.S. wields a lot of influence all over the world. We may most likely see its financial regulations being enforced by other countries. But this is not about that. This is about American Bitcoiners. Some of them, with whom I have spoken, say that this law which is agaist their constitutional rights will force them to leave the United States of America since the law is unfavorable to them. I have a question for them: Will you leave the country or stay and stand up and fight for your right?

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

Totally depends on your financial capacity which it would really be according to the ff;

1. If you are financial capable and have the documents ready then you could always have the confidence on going out in the country
2. If you are just average earner or person whose money would really be just that enough on day to day living then you wont really be
having no choice but to stay.

This is the sad reality on what we are facing on which if you do live on a country which laws and rules is really that against on your principles then
getting living through it would really be challenging day by day. If you do really find out that you could really be able to make yourself
that getting out without any problems since you do have the money then you would definitely be able on doing such thing without any issues
or problems.

[The Cryptovator]

The rules in the US are quite strict. Even if you want to fight, you have to do it legally. Though I am not a citizen of the US, I know some rules about it. They are very hard on taxation. No one can skip it in the US. Probably, citizens won't move to another country because its people dream of becoming citizens of the US if they live outside of that country. They should fight in court about their rights. There is no way to commit violence.

[Odusko]

Even if we will eventually saw that influence, it's going to take a long time because US can't directly meddle in other countries' sovereignty even if they want to, the best thing that you can do in this situation is either get out of mainland USA and go to one of its territories, maybe even go to the Caribbean and get a remote work that you can do anywhere around the world, a lot of expatriates are doing this already so do it now before they see that it's a loophole.

This is not the first time we are hearing or reading about such news and to some extent i dont really care about whatever the government is going to do as regards to Bitcoin and its services as long as I still have control over my bitcoins that are saved in my wallet without any third-party interventions, thay settles it alot for me at that point and I am not looking for any other form of freedom, I have never used bitcoin mixer before but with what has happened to one of the most popular mixers that are closed down now and how constantly it being mention to be used by many of the popular cyber thieves it then become proven to the government that it's either regulated or risk the security of the wholes state, I don't think this should bother citizens of the US at all and at some point, there is no need to flee your country because first before this policy will ever materialized is going to take a long time and at the same time not everyone will be cut up in this shift at some point even if it been implemented at some point.

[cheezcarls]

I'm just fortunate that Philippines is one of the crypto-friendliest countries in the world.

However, taxing cryptocurrency earnings is one of the challenges that the government is facing these days. But for now, they just base our taxes in realized earnings where we cash out from crypto to fiat to any regulated bank, mobile bank, etc.

Let's say I am in a country where Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are illegal. The safest is to look for an underground community who does P2P transactions and also use a VPN when trading or interacting in any crypto exchange platform.

As I cannot see myself in leaving this emerging space, leaving the country would be a tough one and may take some time to change citizenship or so. On top of that, it would cost me a lot of money to process everything plus the board and lodging, everyday food, etc., that you need to sustain yourself.

If you look at China during the times they outlawed Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, there are still so many Chinese communities who are using Telegram and other apps to communicate and do crypto trading. It's all about doing whatever it takes even at this tough situation where crypto is outlawed like in Nepal, Egypt, etc.

[romero121]

In each and every country we were able to experience these kind of things. Whenever a law is introduced, somehow it affects certain group of people or a community. For this if they choose to keep running, we can't be sure of the situation in the next country. This is the hard reality, and in such situation we should have the mind to accept and live. This is where we've born and lived for years, moving to a new country and getting adopted to the change isn't not an easy thing. Already an user stated about being in a third world country and once again moving to a third world country wouldn't be considered. My stand is also the same, when we move to a new country, surely our minds will think of a better nation. If we start thinking of the difference in spending, lifestyle, finding a job, everything will be difficult. When the law doesn't affect the living there is nothing to fight, it is possible to live without bitcoin.

[RaveniaPX]

this was most likely inspired by the bitcoin university video right? he uses exactly the same language.

[Assface16678]

I will be more interested in working in shadow. Well, I think my country will never ban crypto currency, and even if they do, they will never stop me from investing and doing bitcoin stuff. I'm an IT professional, and I know how to do things untracked, so even if they ban any access to bitcoin, it is easy to bypass that. About the group that discriminates against bitcoin, I guess they are hired by the government, maybe, or anyone else that is afraid of the potential of bitcoin, as if it continues, we know bitcoin can be powerful in the future. and as it's powerful, no one could control the bitcoin, only us, the holders and investors themselves. I'm not afraid of anything as I keep my bitcoin stuff secret only known to my trusted friends that also do bitcoin and crypto stuff, we will fight for it? yes but silently.

[Ale88]

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

It depends whether you care about your own country or not. I'm not American, I know Americans are very patriotic mainly because they think they are the best country in the world, but looking from outside it doesn't look like the American government cares too much about its own people so, if I were American, I would simply move somewhere else. Many laws and bans are made because someone can make a profit out of it, not because they are actually good for people.

[blue Snow]

Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

Yes, I will fight 1st to hold my rights, but if I'm no longer to fight it, I will leave the country and go to El Salvador.

I don't know why a strong country that always upholds freedom always binds and shackles its inhabitants. this is a big dilemma for the people who want to freedom and make his decisions. the government always states the truth, but in action reversed from what they said. The government always upholds human rights, but in fact, they violate themself for justice. The world is experiencing chronic cancer, This world needs to be saved by a fair leader where it's no longer exists.

[bayu7adi]

Beforehand, my apologies. Bitcoin is not the single most important facet of my life. I still have a family that continually supports me, friends who constantly provide solace, and a home that remains a comforting sanctuary for me and those close to me. Nevertheless, I remain enamored with Bitcoin because it has afforded me several opportunities to enhance my quality of life.

Alright, concerning my perspective on potential government regulations that might discriminate against Bitcoin enthusiasts (should such regulations come into effect in my country), I would reluctantly part with my Bitcoin holdings and choose to stay in my homeland. I wish to remain with my family and friends here, without the need to emigrate in order to preserve my affection for Bitcoin. Even if I no longer utilize Bitcoin, it does not diminish my love and gratitude for it.

My primary objective is the well-being of my family and close associates, while Bitcoin has been the driving force that has significantly contributed to my life thus far. I shall not harbor any ill will towards Bitcoin, even if I opt to remain in my homeland under regulations that may not favor Bitcoin enthusiasts.

[Blitzboy]

There's no doubt that the Philippines has made a place for itself on the world stage as a crypto-friendly country. The government is taking a good, forward-looking step by being bold. Still, the problem of how to tax cryptocurrency gains is a problem for everyone. A lot of countries are trying to figure this out, trying to find the best balance between encouraging new ideas and making sure they are responsible with their money. You are exactly right about how realized gains are taxed when crypto is converted to fiat. It makes sense to take that step, but is it the best one? What about the little details of peer-to-peer shopping?

It gets less clear as we go deeper into the P2P world. Countries that have made crypto illegal are pushing crypto fans like you into these dark places. It's great that you brought up China and their well-known crypto bans, but it's also a well-kept secret that underground groups are doing very well there. People are very creative when they use Telegram, VPNs, and other tools to get around rules. But it also raises the question: why should states play this game of cat and mouse when they could just accept that the future is here and build strong frameworks?

[famososMuertos]

Why there are only two options? there's the third option: stay in the country and stay private.²

Leaving a country just because your country aren't friendly with Bitcoin isn't a good choice because moving to the other country is really hard due to different culture, language, place, people etc. While stay, stand up and fight for your right is a something stupid since you're risking your life to go jail.¹

There is an ambivalence in your idea."1" y "2".
Fortunately it ideas and those people take us forward in the fight for our right is.

 (1) "While you stay, stand up and fight for your right is a something stupid since you're risking your life to go jail."

Ok, basically it goes with what I said, fortunately what they get us "freedoms" are stupid people. (sarcasm)

Anyway, according to you, we can go to prison for fighting, but what you mention before:

(2)"stay in the country and stay private."

It sends you to jail anyway, you may succeed... but hiding from the IRS is not the best idea for any American citizen, in fact your geographical location is the least important thing, no matter where in the world you live, you pay taxes.

bitcoin is definitely a very powerful social-financial weapon, but that is not enough, we must fight against those who oppose them, but ignoring the laws that govern us to achieve our rights is not the most intelligent way, anonymity is its own condition of the individual is a right, and we must fight for that to be achieved in some way.

So being legally anonymous, complying with your tax rights is possible, you have to agree to pay taxes but not give up the right to be anonymous.

Then, for Americans: "They need to do the homework, no matter what".  It works like that, otherwise they would have to give up their right to be Americans.

[Iranus]

Beforehand, my apologies. Bitcoin is not the single most important facet of my life. I still have a family that continually supports me, friends who constantly provide solace, and a home that remains a comforting sanctuary for me and those close to me. Nevertheless, I remain enamored with Bitcoin because it has afforded me several opportunities to enhance my quality of life.

Alright, concerning my perspective on potential government regulations that might discriminate against Bitcoin enthusiasts (should such regulations come into effect in my country), I would reluctantly part with my Bitcoin holdings and choose to stay in my homeland. I wish to remain with my family and friends here, without the need to emigrate in order to preserve my affection for Bitcoin. Even if I no longer utilize Bitcoin, it does not diminish my love and gratitude for it.

My primary objective is the well-being of my family and close associates, while Bitcoin has been the driving force that has significantly contributed to my life thus far. I shall not harbor any ill will towards Bitcoin, even if I opt to remain in my homeland under regulations that may not favor Bitcoin enthusiasts.

Bitcoin has improved our lives a lot but it is not the only thing that can feed us. Don't forget that before bitcoin appeared, we could still live and survive without bitcoin. So, if I had to choose, I would choose my family, bitcoin is not something valuable for me to trade my family to choose it. To me, bitcoin is just money, nothing more, nothing less, and there are many ways to make money, not just investing in bitcoin. So if I don't have bitcoin or lose it, getting my money or bitcoin back is not too difficult for me, but if I abandon my loved ones just for money then I will never find them again.

[michellee]

It all depends on the situation and circumstances. If things change for the worse, we can't force ourselves to stay in the United States, especially if we lose most of what we have. But what if there was a massive demonstration that could defend people's rights? Don't forget that large-scale demonstrations can change laws because many people don't like them.

And if the United States government continues to act harshly by persecuting and imprisoning people, that will be contrary to human rights. Some countries will defend the people of the United States because the government has confused politics with people's rights. There may be a large-scale population movement from the United States to other countries because it is no longer possible for the population to survive.

The United States has not always been a powerful country among other countries. Maybe now it is still a powerful country, but will it still be in power ten years or even 25 years later? Nowadays, many small countries are starting to grow better and if they no longer agree with the United States, they can look for other allies.

[Kakmakr]

You do not fight the government by avoiding them or relocating to another country..... you fight them with your vote. The government that makes stupid decisions like that, should not be in power..... so you should vote for another political party that will support Bitcoin.

You should also garner support of all your friends and family that can vote and use all those votes against them. A government can only have influence over Bitcoin, if we allow them to stay in power. 

[DabsPoorVersion]

You do not fight the government by avoiding them or relocating to another country..... you fight them with your vote. The government that makes stupid decisions like that, should not be in power..... so you should vote for another political party that will support Bitcoin.

You should also garner support of all your friends and family that can vote and use all those votes against them. A government can only have influence over Bitcoin, if we allow them to stay in power. 

I'm not against your opinion, however, how will people know if the candidate/s that they are going to vote for will support Bitcoin?

Including Bitcoin as a political platform is never heard of. The talks regarding Bitcoin/Crypto were only included if it is raised by many people. Also, there's no guarantee that the political party will continue to support Bitcoin if ever being selected or won with the citizen's vote.

Aside from that, a newly elected politician/s can't easily change the implemented law. Meaning, that even if you voted for them the law continues to become a law. Unless it is suspended by the highest position in the government, which is the President.