Will you leave the country or will you stay, stand up and fight for your right?

[Davidvictorson]

Yesterday, I read a topic about the PATRIOT Act by o_e_l_e_o. In summary, the PATRIOT Act seeks to criminalize regular Bitcoin activity and transactions like mixing. For those who think it is a U.S. thing, please think again. The U.S. wields a lot of influence all over the world. We may most likely see its financial regulations being enforced by other countries. But this is not about that. This is about American Bitcoiners. Some of them, with whom I have spoken, say that this law which is agaist their constitutional rights will force them to leave the United States of America since the law is unfavorable to them. I have a question for them: Will you leave the country or stay and stand up and fight for your right?

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

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[blckhawk]

Even if we will eventually saw that influence, it's going to take a long time because US can't directly meddle in other countries' sovereignty even if they want to, the best thing that you can do in this situation is either get out of mainland USA and go to one of its territories, maybe even go to the Caribbean and get a remote work that you can do anywhere around the world, a lot of expatriates are doing this already so do it now before they see that it's a loophole.

[Aanuoluwatofunmi]

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

The earlier the better for the government to realize that bitcoin is not their enemy, it had rather come to help them with every of their financial unfinished businesses, there's no any law that will stand against bitcoin, if they couldn't achieve such over fourteen years now i don't think they can anymore, the good aspect of it is for their proposal not to stand, if not everywhere you go through will always carry the same regulations on bitcoin.

[Eternad]

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

Definitely not. I’m from 3rd world country which probably leaving my country as not advisable due to more financial problem. I’d rather sell all my Bitcoin rather than change country that has high cost of living. Choosing another 3rd world country is not my alternative choice either since finding new job will be hard unlike in my country which I earn decent amount.

I can live without Bitcoin but I can’t live properly on other country with different culture. It’s too much adjustment for me just to avoid being persecuted by owning Bitcoin while I can sell all my holdings before this law implemented since government gives advisory before they implement new harsh law in my country.

[Jawhead999]

Why there are only two options? there's the third option: stay in the country and stay private.

Leaving a country just because your country aren't friendly with Bitcoin isn't a good choice because moving to the other country is really hard due to different culture, language, place, people etc. While stay, stand up and fight for your right is a something stupid since you're risking your life to go jail.

[tranthidung]

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

Nothing can achieve without efforts and fights so if you want not only you but your children, grand children have a better life, more freedom, sure you must stay and fight for what you believe is better.

The cost is sometimes very expensive especially if you are living in countries without freedom, no actual democracy, where dictators and their regimes with strict laws can harm your life a lot.

In digitalized space, your fight can be easier and you don't have to risk your life for fighting if you can stay anonymous.

[philipma1957]

Hey I am 66 my wife is 67. We are not poor but we are not rich.
I was born in the U.S.A. I pay my taxes. My mom worked for the I.R.S. 24 years My wife worked for the I.R.S. for 33 years.

I get 2 federal pensions from the USA government.
My wife get 1 federal pension from the USA government.
Our health care is directly linked to the U.S.A. government.

For me to replace all of the above I need 100btc at 34500 each or 3.45 million USD.

So obviously I am not fighting or running I don't have anywhere near 25btc no less 100btc.

So I am staying U.S.A. based and simply paying taxes while I report everything.

In fact I am now advertising a mixer and carefully prepping to pay taxes on my mixer earnings. I am afraid to use the mixer

service.

As I could lose my federal pensions

But U.S.A. does allow for free speech so I have  decided to do my part by doing a mixer signature.

 I feel it does show support to people that want privacy and do not want poor tax policies.

[Zanab247]

You don't need to leave your country for some law be imposed to citizens or BTC users because it will make you to lose so many things that your generation will need to fight since you run away for such issues in your country. The way I saw the case going in the court, I get confident on that case that it will favour bitcoiners and it will bring  more opportunities that will increase bitcoiners in the country because, some don't want to show their faces as a bitcoiners until those bitcoiners involved in the case ssucceed and be favour from  court before they will come out openly as a bitcoiners.

If this government allow bitcoiners to be persecuted because of this law, it will surely affect some of their politicians in the country because there is no way bitcoiners will support any presidential candidates again, and it will cause many to loose their presidential election.

[philipma1957]

You don't need to leave your country for some law be imposed to citizens or BTC users because it will make you to lose so many things that your generation will need to fight since you run away for such issues in your country. The way I saw the case going in the court, I get confident on that case that it will favour bitcoiners and it will bring  more opportunities that will increase bitcoiners in the country because, some don't want to show their faces as a bitcoiners until those bitcoiners involved in the case ssucceed and be favourfrom  court before they will come out openly.

If this government allow bitcoiners to be persecuted because of this law, it will surely affect some of their politicians in the country because there is no way bitcoiners will support any presidential candidates again, and it will cause many to loose their presidential election.

Look as a guy that has a family history of IRS work I now feel the USA government has lost its way when it comes to taxing.

The USA has not had a plus budget in over 22 years.  Which means it uses taxes as an arm of the law to punish people not as a way to better people.

[hugeblack]

Depending on the extent of the impact of Bitcoin on your life and income, if the impact is direct and may cause you to lose your source of income, you may be forced to travel to a second country and try to start over, which is what happens with capitalist companies and individuals, as they prefer to go to other countries that have cheaper taxes or cheap workers, and they will do exactly that with Bitcoin. .
As for individuals, I do not think that most of us consider Bitcoin as a sole source of income, and therefore if your situation is good, you will consider keeping your Bitcoin and waiting several years until it has great value.

[Lida93]

Hey I am 66 my wife is 67. We are not poor but we are not rich.
I was born in the U.S.A. I pay my taxes. My mom worked for the I.R.S. 24 years My wife worked for the I.R.S. for 33 years.

I get 2 federal pensions from the USA government.
My wife get 1 federal pension from the USA government.
Our health care is directly linked to the U.S.A. government.

For me to replace all of the above I need 100btc at 34500 each or 3.45 million USD.

So obviously I am not fighting or running I don't have anywhere near 25btc no less 100btc.

So I am staying U.S.A. based and simply paying taxes while I report everything.

In fact I am now advertising a mixer and carefully prepping to pay taxes on my mixer earnings. I am afraid to use the mixer

service.

As I could lose my federal pensions

But U.S.A. does allow for free speech so I have  decided to do my part by doing a mixer signature.

 I feel it does show support to people that want privacy and do not want poor tax policies.

You don't have to flee away from your country counting on all the benefits you have enlisted above concerning you. The truth is that if we decide to run away from our country because of a law made by the government that didn't favour us then that means we'll keep running never stopping cause what makes you think you won't encounter in future another unfavourable law(s) in the country you might be running to.

It's a father-land and that gives us more stands to stay and fight when things are going wrong, alien citizens won't fight for us. And another thing, having to go through the hassle and  process of adapting to a new environment starting a new life else where isn't so simple.

From what I have read the case is in court yet to be giving verdict (correct me if am wrong), so it's possible the citizens might when because it's a matter of privacy which is a right.

[Davidvictorson]

Look as a guy that has a family history of IRS work I now feel the USA government has lost its way when it comes to taxing.

The USA has not had a plus budget in over 22 years.  Which means it uses taxes as an arm of the law to punish people not as a way to better people.

Absolutely true. Taxation which is basically taking my hard-earned money from my work without consent is theft by force. It is no different from braking into my  apartment and stealing my some pairs of Nikes sneakers out of my closet.

[un_rank]

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

Moving with a family is not something easily done or the decision made by one party. It also needs heavy funding to be successful which is not available to everyone. This drops the chances of anyone moving cause of these laws to below 1%.

The two most realistic options is to either accept the regulations and live with it or reject the regulations and stay completely off the radar.

- Jay -

[ImThour]

When things like these occur, I personally feel bad for those who are influencers and are publicly named and government agencies knows that these people are the one supporting Bitcoin or Crypto in the country so they will be the biggest targets of these rules or laws. For most of us, or those who are anonymous, they will be good to go and I am not sure why would anyone be fighting for something which is not going to be implemented at all.

[TheUltraElite]

When the paranoia is high the method to clear it is to see that you keep your feet on the ground.

Just count your options, you have a family you have a future and you need to survive, so either you can die fighting or you can accept the KYC system that may come up and continue to use bitcoin and live a happy life.

I am also not a fan of KYC but consider why you would not want to undergo it. Unless you are involved in money laundering yourself, you can be proud of your bitcoin and how you earned them. The KYC debate has been going on for long, and I dont find any fruitful discussion from it which is why I dont comment. But regulation is the future and this is how things might start off.

Mixers are their main target, small cap investors need not bother, in my opinion.

I personally am not from the US and I doubt how far this will actually go.

[Agbe]

This is a big question to be answer by all and not for one country. I know that USA is one of the major if not the number one country that practice TRUE DEMOCRACY, and in true democracy there is liberal democracy and in the liberal democracy the citizens have the right to do want they think is good for them and make them happy. And I learn this from US Democratic State. Running is part of human survival, so if the pressure from the government is high, then they (bitcoiners) have to look for a way to survive from the pressure then return later when the pressure has calm. All these Patriot Act is to threaten the bitcoiners to stop using bitcoin since they (government) cannot control the coin and they are seen that the value is higher than US dollar. So they are working a modality to control or stop the coin. But irony will be their case. But the way I am seeing things people might jail because of the bitcoin. But victory is sure.

[Sim_card]

I wouldn't leave my country because of this, instead, I will pipe low and act as id U don't have any bitcoin since I have a family and I also have a job here in my country. It is very hard to travel to somewhere no to start life all over again when it is not that you went to the country on a job invitation. The cost of living might be higher in that country that you want to run to and this might affect your standard of living and even your personal life and that of your family. There are many factors that needs to be considered before running away from your country fue to some government laws on bitcoin. We were doing fine when bitcoin wasn't in existence.

[kryptqnick]

It's a proposal even in the US, so assuming that it will spread as a legislative approach far beyond the US might be premature for now.
The US has been pretty tough in terms of crypto regulations (tougher than many other countries), but it doesn't seem like its approach is adopted by others much. My country is pretty dependent on the US support right now, but I don't think it would adopt the US crypto policies, for example, because my country actually wants to become very crypto-friendly.
If I lived in the US, I'd wait to whether the proposal actually gets adopted before making any decisions. Honestly, I think op is a bit overreacting. And the US is a democracy, so it's not a problem to organize protests, gather petition signatures, etc.

[NeilLostBitCoin]

Will you leave the country or stay and stand up and fight for your right?

If this law is eventually legalized, we are going to have Bitcoiners who would be persecuted and jailed for wanting to fight it. There are going to be Bitcoin martyrs. Will you leave the country and take your Bitcoin with you, or will you stay and stand up and fight (non-violently) for your rights?

It depends on the amount of Bitcoin in my wallet. If my Bitcoin funds are sufficient to sustain living in another country, why not?
It seems like there aren't many options for those who are financially struggling. I plan to exchange my Bitcoin and search for a new source of income to support my livelihood in our country while also adhering to government regulations such as KYC. I am not involved in any illegal activities except for the use of Bitcoin, so I will remain here and comply with the law.

[headingnorth]

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.


Apparently, we are now in the "fight you" phase.

There are many strong supporters of bitcoin in the US Congress who will fight back against these draconian proposals.