@Cantsay - possible abuse of merits + alt accounts

[Lucius]

I'm not in the habit of accusing someone just like that and I had no intention of opening this topic, but the sequence of events gives me a hint that I'm on the trail of possible merit abuse and a possible alt farm.

Yesterday I came across the following topic I'm new here in the B&H board and what first caught my attention was the post that was published only 44 seconds after the topic was opened. The post was edited about ten minutes later and I can't say how it looked originally, but it's not at all realistic to me that someone wrote it in just 44 seconds and I assumed that it was a pre-prepared post that was just copy/pasted.

Furthermore, the second thing that caught my attention is that this post received 4 merits in total, 3 of which were from newbie @Turn it off.

The third thing that is definitely suspicious to me is that today that topic is locked, and I sincerely doubt that the reason is that someone reported that topic to the moderators (after all, for what reason?), and newbies usually don't have the habit of locking their topics.

Of course I questioned @Cantsay and he tried to justify himself in some way.

Another interesting fact, the OP (@Dextro) is Nigerian, and so is @Cantsay.

Facts to consider:

1.@Cantsay responds to a post in just 44 seconds.
2.@Cantsay gets 4 merits, including 3 from the newbie who has earned a total of 8 merits so far.
3.@Cantsay in a way admits that what he is doing is a good way to earn merits and advertise his sig campaign.
4.The topic is locked to prevent further discussion, which only further indicates that the matter is being swept under the rug.

What seems to me that @Dextro1 is an alt account of @Cantsay, and also @Turn it off which served him to award himself merits.


Self-moderated only because of possible trolls who usually pollute such topics - not a single constructive post will be deleted.

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[Little Mouse]

The post was edited about ten minutes later and I can't say how it looked originally, but it's not at all realistic to me that someone wrote it in just 44 seconds and I assumed that it was a pre-prepared post that was just copy/pasted.

Here's how it looked like- https://loyce.club/archive/posts/6304/63047044.html

Welcome to Bitcointalk.org

The purpose is to be the first guy to respond so that they can get attention from people who share merits in that section as he admitted.

Edit- If I'm correct there was a guy who used to create new accounts and post questions from new accounts while from their main account, they used to share the pre-generated answer which helped him get more merits. Not sure if it's the same case here too, we really can't decide from one of such responses. If Cantsay used to do this a lot of times, then maybe he is also follwing that tricks.

[Charles-Tim]

What I have only noticed about Cantsay is that he use to post like 3 to 5 words (which would only take some seconds ) so that he can fast post on a new thread, and later immediately edit it to make it longer. There have been many threads I noticed this about him which likely are not Nigerians as the OPs.

I am not implying that Dextro1 may not be his alt, or his friend, but that has been his habit that may convince me that the account Dextro1 may not be his alt.

[Rikafip]

Here's how it looked like- https://loyce.club/archive/posts/6304/63047044.html

He is not referring to Dextro1 post but instead to the one written by Cantsay.

3.@Cantsay in a way admits that what he is doing is a good way to earn merits and advertise his sig campaign.

That si imho a weak explanation. It would be more beliveable if he said that he has that whole post already written somewhere and saved just in case, but to see a new topic and write all that in only 44 seconds? I honestly doubt that.

By the way, we had similar cases in the past where some members were doing exactly this: using alt account to create new topics, then answering with main one knowing that early replies usually gets the most amount of merit so this woudn't be a first one.

[Cantsay]

Like I said in that thread, the reason why I responded to that thread fast was because I was with my device when the notification came in at Tryninja’s notification bot. And if you take a look at my post history you’ll see that majority of my replies are mostly first or at the first page of those thread and whenever my post comes first you’ll see that there’s always a little time difference between mine and the op and the main reason why I respond fast is to avoid making reply that just looks like a repetition of what other users have said already and most of them don’t require technical knowledge ( I do stead away from posts that require such to avoid spreading no-sense knowledge)

lk.org/index.php?topic=5457551.msg63035640#msg63035640]@Cantsay[/url].

Facts to consider:

1.@Cantsay responds to a post in just 44 seconds.

I believe this has already been answered and I even provided you with screenshots showing you how I edited my posts batch by batch (but if that’s a crime then go on and punish me).

2.@Cantsay gets 4 merits, including 3 from the newbie who has earned a total of 8 merits so far.

If any account is to be suspected it should be the other account where I receive one merits from not the other @turn it off because I looked at his post history and found that we’re not even in the same local board.

3.@Cantsay in a way admits that what he is doing is a good way to earn merits and advertise his sig campaign.

I don’t see anything wrong in my trying to give more exposure to a campaign signature that I am wearing also at the same time trying to earning merits by replying fast to threads that I know the answers to… and like I said if this is also a crime then go one with your punishment.

4.The topic is locked to prevent further discussion, which only further indicates that the matter is being swept under the rug.

Moderators could be asked in this case to open the thread and if possible look into the Ip @dextro if indeed it’s been operated by me, and if anyone reported the thread please do me the favour of just replying to this part of my post (if you even come across it).

What seems to me that @Dextro1 is an alt account of @Cantsay, and also @Turn it off which served him to award himself merits.

This is funny because if indeed @dextro is my alt and I have already been accused of abusing the system why on earth will I try to make it more obvious by locating the Nigeria board? Like I should try to keep the account of the forum it possibly delete my post, but why just go straight to the my local board to create more drama?

Ps. There might be some grammatical errors.

[Little Mouse]

Here's how it looked like- https://loyce.club/archive/posts/6304/63047044.html

He is not referring to Dextro1 post but instead to the one written by Cantsay.

The link says I'm also talking about Cantsay's post. Not sure what you have seen.

[Rikafip]

The link says I'm also talking about Cantsay's post. Not sure what you have seen.

Ah sorry, my bad. Yeah I thought I saw the first post.

What I have only noticed about Cantsay is that he use to post like 3 to 5 words (which would only take some seconds ) so that he can fast post on a new thread, and later edit it to make it longer. There have been many threads I noticed this about him which likely are not Nigerians as the OPs.

Yeah you might be onto something with this. This could be a very effective method to earn merit as it first he "reserves" the first spot (as earlier replies bring more merit) and then he takes some time to write a proper answer.

[Cantsay]

3.@Cantsay in a way admits that what he is doing is a good way to earn merits and advertise his sig campaign.

That si imho a weak explanation. It would be more beliveable if he said that he has that whole post already written somewhere and saved just in case, but to see a new topic and write all that in only 44 seconds? I honestly doubt that.

If I had written it somewhere and then start copying and pasting them in every newbies thread that means I would have made plagiarized posts more than once and besides what’s there to write down?
“Welcome to Bitcointalk, + introducing links to help them learn about bitcoin  + in some case how to use search ( which I recently started adding + encouragement to ask questions” if I had to write this post down in my notepad that means I’d have been making my quick replies that has nothing to do with newbies introduction when the page has gotten to 3 or 4.

By the way, we had similar cases in the past where some members were doing exactly this: using alt account to create new topics, then answering with main one knowing that early replies usually gets the most amount of merit so this woudn't be a first one.

I have participated in providing proofs for cases that are similar to this so I know how fruitless it is to try to grow an account by creating alts and then self-meriting.

[Rikafip]

If I had written it somewhere and then start copying and pasting them in every newbies thread that means I would have made plagiarized posts more than once and besides what’s there to write down?
“Welcome to Bitcointalk, + introducing links to help them learn about bitcoin  + in some case how to use search ( which I recently started adding + encouragement to ask questions” if I had to write this post down in my notepad that means I’d have been making my quick replies that has nothing to do with newbies introduction when the page has gotten to 3 or 4.

Fair enough.

What I don't understand is why you didn't reply to Lucius that you initially wrote only "Welcome to Bitcointalk.org" in those 44 seconds and only later expanded the answer to the one we see now? As its pretty much obvious that is what happened here and would explain how its possible to write all that in seemingly only 44 seconds.  

[stompix]

Like I said in that thread, the reason why I responded to that thread fast was because I was with my device when the notification came in at Tryninja’s notification bot.

44 seconds from the moment the user posted a topic, to get the notification, to actually reading the topic, to go to reply and type your own post, and hit post?
Without the bolded part, yes,  with it, bs!

And if you take a look at my post history you’ll see that majority of my replies are mostly first or at the first page of those thread and whenever my post comes first you’ll see that there’s always a little time

Do you have more of these in 44 seconds?  

Anyhow, even if what you say is real, what you're doing is completely wrong!
When somebody sees that someone has replied to this topic he wants to see a real answer, not "welcome" and not after 12 minutes the full answer. Can you please explain to us how it took you only 44 seconds to get on that topic, have the ready-prepared answer at hand, and post it in that time but then it took you 12 minutes to actually make it look like a real reply?

I don’t see anything wrong in my trying to give more exposure to a campaign signature that I am wearing also at the same time trying to earning merits by replying fast to threads that I know the answers to… and like I said if this is also a crime then go one with your punishment.

Oh no, nothing wrong!
Let's get everyone to type reserved as fast as they can in every topic and by the time it reaches 100 pages come back and actually read what this topic is about and ponder a few hours more if we have an opinion on it at all.

It's not about being a crime, it's about being a total dick!

This is funny because if indeed @dextro is my alt and I have already been accused of abusing the system why on earth will I try to make it more obvious by locating the Nigeria board?

Because people who think of this stupid way to farm merits are likely to do another stupid thing!

[Poker Player]

I recommend Cantsay to stop doing stupid things, like worrying about being the first to reply to a thread. If the answer is good enough, it doesn't matter if you are the first or the fourth. Also, if you have alts, don't do stupid things with them. At the moment I don't see any tag in his profile and his merit history seems decent, leaving aside these 3 merits on the part of his possible alt.

There are already too many people on the forum who screw up by behaving like idiots when they have the potential to be good forum members and earn money accordingly.

[Solosanz]

@OP I respect you and don't take this as personal, what's the conclusion from your accusation?

Let's assume if @Dextro1 is @Cantsay's alt and abuse of merits, what's the punishment? a DT member can't tag someone because of abusing merit.

If a DT member tags you for something stupid involving merit (ie. probably anything less than selling merit), then they're not going to be a DT member for much longer.

What he did certainly make the project he promote become more visible, so the project owner should be happy to have him. For a campaign manager, it might be good to have him since the purpose of campaign manager is helping the project.

I've seen there are a lot abusers out there, but since there's no punishment, I see no point.

Even though I don't like such dirty strategy.

[FatFork]

I understand that the population of Edo State is estimated at over 4.7 million ^[1], but damn, this is such a coincidence:

Username: cantsay
Gender: male
State of resident : Edo state
Skills: graphics design, web developer

Username: Dextro1
Gender: male
Country/state of origin: Nigeria/Edo State
Skill: Graphic Designer

Another almost identical case, involving another Nigerian: Usasauki2004
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5469050.msg62938877#msg62938877

All things considered, I'd say either work buddies or an alt accounts.

@OP I respect you and don't take this as personal, what's the conclusion from your accusation?

Let's assume if @Dextro1 is @Cantsay's alt and abuse of merits, what's the punishment? a DT member can't tag someone because of abusing merit.

If a DT member tags you for something stupid involving merit (ie. probably anything less than selling merit), then they're not going to be a DT member for much longer.

That quote is taken out of context. Read the whole post by theymos and the post to which the reply was referring. Also, bones261 talked about a "red tag", there was no mention of a neutral tag.

[JeromeTash]

And if you take a look at my post history you’ll see that majority of my replies are mostly first or at the first page of those thread and whenever my post comes first you’ll see that there’s always a little time difference between mine and the op and the main reason why I respond fast is to avoid making reply that just looks like a repetition of what other users have said already and most of them don’t require technical knowledge

All for what, bro?

It's not a competition, Lol.
I have noticed how you respond to some posts in the past. You usually start with a very short response like "welcome to bitcointalk" and then edit it later. You know that you got so many eyes watching here and anything off about your account behavior can draw a lot of attention

Look at this few examples

1. https://ninjastic.space/post/62938877 Edit: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5469050.msg62938877#msg62938877
2. https://ninjastic.space/post/62977832 Edit: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5469958.msg62977832#msg62977832
3. https://ninjastic.space/post/63021589 Edit: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5470936.msg63021589#msg63021589
4. https://ninjastic.space/post/62997228 Edit: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5470392.msg62997228#msg62997228
5. https://ninjastic.space/post/63021589 Edit: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5470936.msg63021589#msg63021589
And this is just Beginners, and help board could go on and on and on…

What exactly are you trying to achieve?

Of course, you can edit once in a while but in your case, you made it a habit. I know of a user who used to do the same thing for a signature campaign, and they had to throw him out after coming under scrutiny.

[SmartGold01]

I don't know whom to believe but from what I understand so far as someone who uses notification, I often got attracted by some new topics and thread which I do get the notification but due to some reason of what op just say I do give some space or time possibly I will allow some minutes before responding to the thread but if in any way I want to reply and I noticed that what I want to answer has already  been posted I don't mind quitting and stop posting so that it won't be spamming or shitposting.
@op you can be correct but let's also consider some facts as well since he already said of always responding to most topics as soon as it's being posted, with this aspect we can see some senses to what he is saying but, for that maybe you need to watch out next if such activities persist then you should know that all you just said are nothing but the real facts.

[Lucius]

2.@Cantsay gets 4 merits, including 3 from the newbie who has earned a total of 8 merits so far.

If any account is to be suspected it should be the other account where I receive one merits from not the other @turn it off because I looked at his post history and found that we’re not even in the same local board.

So any doubt is removed because both of you do not belong/write in the same local board? You know what else is weird? The fact that @Turn it off does not appear at all to defend himself or you, and he gave you all the merits he had.

3.@Cantsay in a way admits that what he is doing is a good way to earn merits and advertise his sig campaign.

I don’t see anything wrong in my trying to give more exposure to a campaign signature that I am wearing also at the same time trying to earning merits by replying fast to threads that I know the answers to… and like I said if this is also a crime then go one with your punishment.

What kind of punishment are you talking about? I am not a moderator, admin, or even a DT1 member so I can punish you in any way.

4.The topic is locked to prevent further discussion, which only further indicates that the matter is being swept under the rug.

Moderators could be asked in this case to open the thread and if possible look into the Ip @dextro if indeed it’s been operated by me, and if anyone reported the thread please do me the favour of just replying to this part of my post (if you even come across it).

Whoever closed that thread only caused my even greater suspicion that things are not very clear there - but it seems to me that the topic was closed by the OP, because I don't see on what basis someone would report that thread, and even less why a mod would lock it.

What seems to me that @Dextro1 is an alt account of @Cantsay, and also @Turn it off which served him to award himself merits.

This is funny because if indeed @dextro is my alt and I have already been accused of abusing the system why on earth will I try to make it more obvious by locating the Nigeria board? Like I should try to keep the account of the forum it possibly delete my post, but why just go straight to the my local board to create more drama?

I understand that the population of Edo State is estimated at over 4.7 million ^[1], but damn, this is such a coincidence:

Username: cantsay
Gender: male
State of resident : Edo state
Skills: graphics design, web developer

Username: Dextro1
Gender: male
Country/state of origin: Nigeria/Edo State
Skill: Graphic Designer

Another almost identical case, involving another Nigerian: Usasauki2004
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5469050.msg62938877#msg62938877

All things considered, I'd say either work buddies or an alt accounts.

I hope you will have some meaningful comment on this evidence, or you will say that everything is just a coincidence?

[BabyBandit]

Hello. I gave this users on merit yesterday here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5445913.msg63261532#msg63261532
I didn't know about this until now, maybe I did something wrong.  

@BabyBandit, in general, you didn't do anything wrong, because everyone can do whatever they want with their sMerits - but I personally think that posts of that type are not something that deserves merits. As you can see from this topic, various methods are used by individuals to get merits, but apparently this is quite normal behavior for some members of the forum.

EDIT: Thanks for clarifying Lucius

[Lucius]

@BabyBandit, in general, you didn't do anything wrong, because everyone can do whatever they want with their sMerits - but I personally think that posts of that type are not something that deserves merits. As you can see from this topic, various methods are used by individuals to get merits, but apparently this is quite normal behavior for some members of the forum.

[GeorgeJohn]

Their is some certain information we can consider to be real or not, their is every tendency that the account can be alt, and if the account is alt I don't think that will trade a merit but nobody can tell... when you start to dig to the forum many people will be alt of some people they don't know, what I will encourage you is to make your proper investigation
In other hand nothing people can not do to grow Alt accounts, so after a proper investigation and it's what a cantsay did, i think its does not make a sense, but I'm emphasising on proper investigation, before justification

[Lucius]

~snip~
In other hand nothing people can not do to grow Alt accounts, so after a proper investigation and it's what a cantsay did, i think its does not make a sense, but I'm emphasising on proper investigation, before justification

You obviously haven't read anything in this topic, or you have and you still don't understand anything. There is enough evidence for a well-founded suspicion that @Cantsay is trying to earn merits in the way described - and besides, he didn't even try to defend himself, but wisely remained silent in the hope that everything would be forgotten.