@Cantsay - possible abuse of merits + alt accounts

[examplens]

You obviously haven't read anything in this topic, or you have and you still don't understand anything. There is enough evidence for a well-founded suspicion that @Cantsay is trying to earn merits in the way described - and besides, he didn't even try to defend himself, but wisely remained silent in the hope that everything would be forgotten.

He didn't stay silent, he added you to his distrust list. https://loyce.club/trust/2023-11-04_Sat_05.07h/3435148.html
Judging by the reasons why he did that, obviously an improper use of the trust system.

Cantsay Distrusts these users' judgement:
1. NEW ~Lucius (Trust: neutral) (4261 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

oops, pardon. I forgot to add that you were on his trust list before that. 

Cantsay Trusts these users' judgement:
9. Removed Lucius (Trust: neutral) (4261 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

[1714681831]

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[The Sceptical Chymist]

He didn't stay silent, he added you to his distrust list. https://loyce.club/trust/2023-11-04_Sat_05.07h/3435148.html
Judging by the reasons why he did that, obviously an improper use of the trust system.

I'm scratching my head wondering if that is indeed improper, because if someone created a thread about me with an accusation that was false, would I be wrong for not trusting that member's judgement?  Yep, it looks retaliatory on Cantsay's part but looking at it from his perspective, I'm just questioning what I might do or at least think of doing.

But that's only if the accusation was false.  I got a request to do a post history review from Cantsay, and I'm glad I started checking members' trust pages before doing them, because after checking his and then following Lucius's link to this thread I think I'm going to have to skip him for the reasons you guys have pointed out here.  I have enough evidence that something fishy is afoot to justify that decision. 

Oh, and Cantsay's got me on his trust list so I'm expecting to be removed.  Lol.  Set the timer....now.

[Lucius]

I'm scratching my head wondering if that is indeed improper, because if someone created a thread about me with an accusation that was false, would I be wrong for not trusting that member's judgement?  Yep, it looks retaliatory on Cantsay's part but looking at it from his perspective, I'm just questioning what I might do or at least think of doing.

Anyone who considers themselves innocent would try to defend themselves in every way, and ignoring everything presented in this topic only confirms that it is true.

But that's only if the accusation was false.  I got a request to do a post history review from Cantsay, and I'm glad I started checking members' trust pages before doing them, because after checking his and then following Lucius's link to this thread I think I'm going to have to skip him for the reasons you guys have pointed out here.  I have enough evidence that something fishy is afoot to justify that decision.

I'm glad that someone still shows the sense to separate the good from the bad, but I'm also disappointed when I see that the majority still tolerates such behavior as if it's something completely normal and not more than obvious abuse of merits.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I'm glad that someone still shows the sense to separate the good from the bad, but I'm also disappointed when I see that the majority still tolerates such behavior as if it's something completely normal and not more than obvious abuse of merits.

Tolerate it how exactly?  Merit abuse has always been kind of a controversial topic as far as what actions should be taken by the community, and personally I don't tag merit abusers because Theymos implied that they shouldn't be (IIRC).  

The Nigerian community seems to be a very tight one, and that's the only lingering reservation I have about all of this.  I noticed that Mia Chloe and Hatchy are in the "merit circle" of Cantsay, and I believe they're both Nigerian.  I don't have any evidence that they're alt accounts, so I'm not going to say anything other than I've taken notice of who's giving merits to who when I'm doing post history reviews.

BTW, I like the way you shrunk the font on the quoted text.  I may have to steal that from you.

[Shishir99]

I have seen this thread before. But, I was convinced that this is not a merit abuse nor that they are an alt account. Because I also had a stupid idea like "I would install telegram and run try ninja's bot to get instant notifications for a new topic and I will be the first person to make a reply" It will help me earn more merits. But I never had free time to do these simple few steps. If I can have such stupid idea, Maybe can't say have the similar idea too. The only suspicious thing is what fatFork posted in this thread. The dextro guy and cantsay is from same place and the both graphic designer. How odd it is?

[Cantsay]

The only suspicious thing is what fatFork posted in this thread. The dextro guy and cantsay is from same place and the both graphic designer. How odd it is?

That was the same reason I stopped responding to this thread not because I didn’t have anything to saw to defend but the fact that they overlooked everything I said and still continued with the same accusation; I remember when the Op of that thread was noted to be from the same local board as me I tried defending myself, because I don’t see any logic in me making a post in my local board with my alt after being accused of abusing the system- if anything should be done it would have been for me to take the account far from my local board. And I’m sure that even if I continue defending myself saying I know none of them more users will still come to the thread and bring up suspicions that I have already countered.

~~~
Oh, and Cantsay's got me on his trust list so I'm expecting to be removed.  Lol.  Set the timer....now.

Nah that’s not going to happen.

Wait TSC let me ask you a question; What would your reaction be if you were accused of having an alt account and then you replied the user defending yourself and later you didn't receive any notifications thinking maybe the accuser saw truth in your post and gave up the idea, but unfortunately after a few days you received a notification that the initial thread has been locked and instead a new thread had been created against you, and despite trying to defend yourself everyone turned a blind eye on your post? Claiming that you locked the thread with your alt account (when the issue could have been resolved there) and then instead of hiding your alt you proceed to create a post in the same local board as your main account.

[Hatchy]

The Nigerian community seems to be a very tight one, and that's the only lingering reservation I have about all of this.  I noticed that Mia Chloe and Hatchy are in the "merit circle" of Cantsay, and I believe they're both Nigerian.  I don't have any evidence that they're alt accounts, so I'm not going to say anything other than I've taken notice of who's giving merits to who when I'm doing post history reviews.

I was surprised when I saw the title if this thread

@Cantsay - possible abuse of merits + alt accounts

on my telegram bot because I've been accused of being someone's alt before as a newbie, and it didn't end well, thanks to some highly reputed members, I wasn't given a neutral trust. I just found this thread now and I'm still surprised to be tagged with @cantsay and MiaChloe as Alts. It's not something anyone would be happy about. just to be sure, I decided to check ninjastic space and found that I've sent and received equal merit from MiaChloe, which might wrongly suggest we're Alts.

Looking at @cantsay account, I couldn't find much. He's a high-reputed member of the Nigeria local board, but I rarely see him posting there. I send merit to members who contribute well to my local community, and if MiaChloe wasn't one of them, he wouldn't be on my most-merited list. what I always liked about MiaChloe was how he always managed to balance his earned merits with his total amounts of post. this showed more of a quality member on Bitcointalk.

I don't know if it's a coincidence, that we both have equal sent merits on our account, but as I mentioned in my first merit accusation thread I have no skeletons in the closet. If I've done anything that seems like merit abuse, I'll stop because I don't like being mentioned in threads like this. I seek knowledge and reputation on Bitcointalk and won't let things like this tarnish my reputation. please Feel free to mention me if needed, and I hope @MiaChloe has seen this discussion and can share his thoughts on his merit history.

[Shishir99]

unfortunately after a few days you received a notification that the initial thread has been locked and instead a new thread had been created against you,

Look Cantsay, I understand this is frustrating if you are innocent and I would reacted the same if I were you. If someone accused me wrongly and I am not guilty of that, I will stop responding to them and start ignoring them. But, let me tell you that you are the person who let it happen. It could have been solved in the first thread where it was discussed. But you were not able to explain everything.

When Lucius asked you the question about your reply and how you managed to reply within 44 seconds, you did not explain that you were reserving the post with a short post and later you edited that. The reason for this; I wanted to reserve the spot to give the best exposure to my campaign (which you explained later) or to earn more merits. The matter could have been solved there. But you let it happen and people started digging more. The community always joins the party (even if you are innocent) when they see something negative. This is typical human nature. We enjoy shitshow!

[Mia Chloe]

I decided to take my Christmas break Only to get notifications on accusations that I am possibly an alt.Well I am not so surprised as this is not the first time I have been wrongly accused.

Firstly, Every single member on Bitcoin talk has Merit fans and sometimes it could be members of same local board with you or same frequent discussions as you. Can we then say all merit fans of members are alts?

Hatchy has been a great translation organizer and contributor in my local board, who also happens to be a member of AOBT.
I also want members here to acknowledge the undisputable fact that ranking up for a total newbie on this forum isn't a day's job. And therefore managing multiple alt accounts would be useless.

I also noticed from Cantsay post history that sometime ago he was an active spam buster. He had a reputation of busting bounty cheaters, alts and even users who broke forum rules by copy posting AI contents and even plagiarists.
From the fact that he was able to bust spams I don't think he would be dumb to have made dumb mistakes like airdropping merits from his alts if he had one.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I decided to take my Christmas break Only to get notifications on accusations that I am possibly an alt.Well I am not so surprised as this is not the first time I have been wrongly accused.

All right, wait a sec here.  I didn't outright accuse you or Hatchy of being alt accounts if you read my post closely, just that you've both sent merits to each other and to Cantsay and that I'm keeping an eye on it.  I said that a possible reason for that is the Nigeria connection, which would argue that you aren't alt accounts--and in any case I'm not going to refuse a post history request from you unless there's hard evidence that I'm being taken advantage of, so let's not blow this out of proportion.

What would your reaction be if you were accused of having an alt account and<snip>

I don't know, but what I will say is that the thread that OP linked to in which you posted that detailed information right after the thread was started looks very suspicious.  The fact that Dextro1 only has 4 posts since that thread was started in October is also suspicious, and along with the fact that the thread was locked makes it very much seem as though someone was trying to cover their tracks.

Also, the reason I'm keeping an eye on the members I've mentioned is that I've also gotten post history review requests from Amphenomenon, who also merited you for the post in question and though I said there's no hard evidence of Hatchy and Mia Chloe being alts, if I'm being honest I'm not ruling it out.  I'm just being alert, because I've been fooled and my review offer has been abused before.

[Mia Chloe]

All right, wait a sec here.  I didn't outright accuse you or Hatchy of being alt accounts if you read my post closely, just that you've both sent merits to each other and to Cantsay and that I'm keeping an eye on it.  I said that a possible reason for that is the Nigeria connection, which would argue that you aren't alt accounts--and in any case I'm not going to refuse a post history request from you unless there's hard evidence that I'm being taken advantage of, so let's not blow this out of proportion.

Apologies if I may have accused you wrongly in trying to prove my innocence here. I was only trying to clarify the fact that I am not an alt account. And therefore I don't entertain being mentioned in threads as a possible alt account. This is due to the fact that looking at Cantsay's issue on ground, he may have ignored issues like this during the early stage which only made it escalate and give more emphasis on the idea that he had multiple alt accounts.

[Cantsay]

When Lucius asked you the question about your reply and how you managed to reply within 44 seconds, you did not explain that you were reserving the post with a short post and later you edited that. The reason for this; I wanted to reserve the spot to give the best exposure to my campaign (which you explained later) or to earn more merits. The matter could have been solved there. But you let it happen and people started digging more. The community always joins the party (even if you are innocent) when they see something negative. This is typical human nature. We enjoy shitshow!

Who said I didn’t explain how I responded fast to the thread? That was what I started with when I was first accused but somehow it was ignored. if you scroll down you’ll see another post where I included screenshots of my drafts showing how I edited the post.

I don't know, but what I will say is that the thread that OP linked to in which you posted that detailed information right after the thread was started looks very suspicious.

I explained how I made that post in a short duration here, you can scroll up to see my first reply to this accusation. . I even included screenshots of my drafts just so that they can see that the post was edited and each information was added bit by bit, check it out and see for yourself that I didn’t just ignore the thread.

 The fact that Dextro1 only has 4 posts since that thread was started in October is also suspicious, and along with the fact that the thread was locked makes it very much seem as though someone was trying to cover their tracks.

Cover my tracks? And yet the said account went to my local board to make a post and not only did they make a post in my local board they also made it obvious that were from the same state and profession. That’s exactly what I’m trying to say why go to my local board and post after being accused? If anything should have been done it would have been for me to keep the alt far from my local board to reduce suspicion.

Also, the reason I'm keeping an eye on the members I've mentioned is that I've also gotten post history review requests from Amphenomenon, who also merited you for the post in question and though I said there's no hard evidence of Hatchy and Mia Chloe being alts, if I'm being honest I'm not ruling it out.  I'm just being alert, because I've been fooled and my review offer has been abused before.

I had to pm someone who I thought had already sent you a post review request so that I could ask him if there was a format for application… check your list this is the first time I have sent you an application and if you’re in doubt I could send you a screenshot of the user I asked for help on how to write the post review request; but only if you promise to keep it private cause I have seen people publish PMs that were supposed to be private to the public and I don’t want something like that to happen.

[ColdLava40]

After reading what the OP wrote and the opinion of different users in the comment section, it clearly shows that judging a case in court is not as easy as we think. But I can give me own opinion base on some reply I came across.

@Cantsay responds to a post in just 44 seconds.

From what I read, he explained how he receives notifications from new posts and replies. Depending on the user, but i think typing "Welcome to Bitcointalk" shouldn't take long especially when you know that you are trying to secure a spot in the comment section.

44 seconds from the moment the user posted a topic, to get the notification, to actually reading the topic, to go to reply and type your own post, and hit post?
Without the bolded part, yes,  with it, bs!

Not every user type slow on their devices.

I understand that the population of Edo State is estimated at over 4.7 million [1], but damn, this is such a coincidence:

It's awesome that you used your search engine properly by searching for the population of the state, but it's quit disturbing that you didn't search for the last time the country conducted a national population census.

I think those who live in the state should be able to give the probability of having two different graphic designers on same platform.

And if you take a look at my post history you’ll see that majority of my replies are mostly first or at the first page of those thread and whenever my post comes first you’ll see that there’s always a little time difference between mine and the op and the main reason why I respond fast is to avoid making reply that just looks like a repetition of what other users have said already and most of them don’t require technical knowledge

All for what, bro?

It's not a competition, Lol.
I have noticed how you respond to some posts in the past. You usually start with a very short response like "welcome to bitcointalk" and then edit it later. You know that you got so many eyes watching here and anything off about your account behavior can draw a lot of attention

Of course, I won't agree with @cantsay on this. Most topic starters might just be interested in few comments, but end up seeing "welcome to Bitcointalk". I don't have any problem with him trying to secure a top spot for himself, besides there are no rules against that.

Just because of how busy i am outside my digital space, i would have love to have a spot in every comment section by doing the same thing.

So any doubt is removed because both of you do not belong/write in the same local board? You know what else is weird? The fact that @Turn it off does not appear at all to defend himself or you, and he gave you all the merits he had.

@Turn it off ought to be present here to clear him/herself. I am not an admin or moderator, but i think @Turn it off activities should be monitored for failing to respond to every claim involving him/her.

In conclusion : Though the evidence against @cantsay is strong, I can't form my own judgment based on other factors at hand.

[Amphenomenon]

Also, the reason I'm keeping an eye on the members I've mentioned is that I've also gotten post history review requests from Amphenomenon, who also merited you for the post in question and though I said there's no hard evidence of Hatchy and Mia Chloe being alts, if I'm being honest I'm not ruling it out.  I'm just being alert, because I've been fooled and my review offer has been abused before.

Thanks for all you do God bless you. I get you have been taken as a fool for you trying to help others like this and it's understandable after everything that happened before and now I feel more open to clear myself out of all this drama :
Earning merit wasn't easy for me at first till I read this fillippone  thread which was an eye opener and a guide I'm grateful for. Here is a quote from it :

Don’t hoard your sMerit. Spend them, according to aforementioned criteria, but spend them. Find good material on the forum and reward someone. This will start a few positive feedback loops: first this will encourage more good posts on the forum, that is our main objective, secondly will create some kind of “bond” with the merited person, that will recognise you next time you write and will be more keen to merit you back( this is not merit begging or merit swapping, it is more a subtle, psychological, not conscious effect)  and lastly, above all will signal you as a user that recognise good posts. A user recognising good posts is perceived as a user writing good posts: you send Merits, the more they will come back to you!

I have tried this and it do work and sometimes I do feel like meriting others who has merited me and that day I thought about meriting Cantsay. Then opt for the post He was last merited unfortunately saw that post and he got 3 merit from it and then decided to add 1 extra never thought @Turn it off will just be a newbie let's be Frank who will expect a newbie to do just that all I thought was that Turn it off was just another unknown I rank member then boom all these drama.

[Shishir99]

Who said I didn’t explain how I responded fast to the thread? That was what I started with when I was first accused but somehow it was ignored. if you scroll down you’ll see another post where I included screenshots of my drafts showing how I edited the post.

You could tell me who said that. I can see that you still do not understand what I have asked you. I have checked your post again and I saw how badly you have explained that you have copied the links and all you did is quote the post and paste it there. You didn't have to tell me all these things. All you have to say is, I have reserved the post with a short message like "Welcome to the forum". That's why I was too fast to reply because I didn't even read what op posted. Otherwise, it's not even possible to finish the reading in 44 seconds. You have been asked the same question by Rikafip here

Fair enough.

What I don't understand is why you didn't reply to Lucius that you initially wrote only "Welcome to Bitcointalk.org" in those 44 seconds and only later expanded the answer to the one we see now? As its pretty much obvious that is what happened here and would explain how its possible to write all that in seemingly only 44 seconds.  

That's what happens when you do not get the question and write a wall of text instead of a short and simple answer. I was trying to help because It seems like you were innocent. but you seem unhappy 
Good luck!

[Cantsay]

You could tell me who said that. I can see that you still do not understand what I have asked you. I have checked your post again and I saw how badly you have explained that you have copied the links and all you did is quote the post and paste it there. You didn't have to tell me all these things. <…>

Going back to read them, I have realized what you said. no wonder users kept asking the same question I thought maybe they didn’t bother to read my post but it looks like I failed to pass the information constructively that’s why… Btw, Thanks for you contribution.

[lovesmayfamilis]

I also noticed from Cantsay post history that sometime ago he was an active spam buster. He had a reputation of busting bounty cheaters, alts and even users who broke forum rules by copy posting AI contents and even plagiarists.
From the fact that he was able to bust spams I don't think he would be dumb to have made dumb mistakes like airdropping merits from his alts if he had one.

I agree with you, and this is what I have been thinking about since the first days of this topic.
@Cantsay is good at finding alternative accounts. Does this mean he won't be able to hide his second account well enough? I am ready to agree that he has an alternative account, since according to the history of posts, the formation of life on the forum occurs too quickly, but the ownership of alts is not prohibited. And these are not the accounts the OP is referring to.
In addition, the @Turn it off account belongs to a person from Indonesia, although you can also understand that he knows what he is writing about and is not a newbie.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5448217.msg62474906#msg62474906

[SamReomo]

After reading almost every of this thread I can say that there are some chances for @Cantsay to have some relation to that account but that can be a coincidence too. I have read some posts of Cantsay before and I have seen many posts of him of various topics. Most of his posts seem pretty good to me and he makes some good contribution to the forum.

I know it seems strange to make the first post in a thread to get some merits and I believe that's the main reason why @Lucius thought about some co-relation between those two accounts. I would suggest @Cantsay to not try to make posts in rush as those can cause some problems for you and may cause some doubts in minds of other members if you receive merits on those posts. No matter if you write the first post or the fifth one if it deserves to get merits it will get those merits trust me.

[Hazink]

I know it seems strange to make the first post in a thread to get some merits and I believe that's the main reason why @Lucius thought about some co-relation between those two accounts. I would suggest @Cantsay to not try to make posts in rush as those can cause some problems for you and may cause some doubts in minds of other members if you receive merits on those posts. No matter if you write the first post or the fifth one if it deserves to get merits it will get those merits trust me.

I don't think the problem here is making the comment in a hurry. I have seen many comments in which the users comment in a rush, even one-line comments. Those who are forum staff—some of them do that—and many other users use such means to secure a spot for themselves to appear in the first line of the comment. It might appear bad and cheating to others, as some people who want to give a genuine answer in a particular case might drop the comment under it, and after they have edited their post, it will now look as if the person who commented before the editing copied or just duplicated the answer of the first commenter with a few changes.
 
From reading the whole drama, where I see this issue coming from is the spead use in the comment. Even when it was edited, the time limit used in editing and adding up all the information and links looks really suspicious, and anyone who is observant enough will definitely have some queries over such an attitude. Adding to the fact that the OP and the person in question are from the same local board and have also made claims of having the same skill, coincidences do happen, but such is rare to be seen in the open.
 
Some people who make one-line comments and reserve them for editing later have been doing it, and a thread of such has not been created for them. This is because there has not been any malicious intent detected in such behaviour. When you see a little thing that is a bit fishy and warrants an eye brow to be raised, you will definitely see it.
 
All things being said, from all evidence, even if Cantsay is not the owner of that Op account, there is a higher possibility of him knowing who the OP is, and he was alerted before the thread became published, which made him arrange his reply in preparation for that moment.

[Lucius]

It is more than obvious that @Cantsay continues with the old practice, and this time it took him 1 minute and 6 seconds to respond to the post, and we should not be surprised at all that OP @Funke is also from Nigeria. Those who still believe in coincidences have fewer and fewer arguments to continue to think so.

Considering that @Cantsay is in the campaign managed by @icopress, I draw his attention once again to the behavior of this user.