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Author Topic: Is it possible to overfill a hardware wallet?  (Read 139 times)
A S M (OP)
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November 09, 2023, 04:09:27 PM
Last edit: November 09, 2023, 05:20:29 PM by A S M
 #1

Modern wallets work using HD wallet technology and for all Bitcoin-like coins they use the UTXO model, which allows you to constantly create new addresses for receiving coins.
When you connect your wallet, a request is made to the server, which checks the balances of all your used addresses and calculates your balance. The wallet also usually checks a certain number of unused addresses ahead for balance history; this parameter is called GAP Limit.
How GAP Limit works:
The blockchain contains records of public addresses and their balances. To display your account balance, the wallet checks your transaction history on the blockchain. Since accounts for Bitcoin and Bitcoin-based coins use multiple public addresses, the wallet only needs to look up the public addresses that are in use.
Public addresses are obtained from the account's extended public key (xpub) by incrementing the address index in the receiving path. Typically, wallet follow the BIP44 standard, which dictates that wallets look 20 addresses forward from the last address used. If you receive a transaction to the first address, the wallet will scan up to 21 addresses for transaction history. If nothing is found, the search will stop. If a payment was received at address 22, the wallet will not see it, since it stopped at address 21.
Now imagine the situation that you are a very active user and receive several dozen payments to new addresses per day and over the years, the server will have to scan tens of thousands of addresses every time you access it. What will happen in this case? Will the server throw an error or continue to endure the bullying of such users and sooner or later will it crash? But someone can create a dust attack on the received addresses; in this case, it will be enough to send dust to every 20th address in order not to exceed the GAP Limit. If you use many of these wallets, what will happen to the servers? What is your opinion on this matter?

Information about how GAP Limit works is taken from here:
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010892360-Address-gap-limit?docs=true
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November 09, 2023, 04:24:22 PM
 #2

A S M,  did you actually write this stuff yourself, or did you copy it from somewhere else? You oughta know plagiarizing isn't allowed here and moderators don't take kindly to it.  If you snatched up these words from another place, you best cite your source and give the original writer their due credit. 

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November 09, 2023, 04:30:11 PM
 #3

A S M,  did you actually write this stuff yourself, or did you copy it from somewhere else? You oughta know plagiarizing isn't allowed here and moderators don't take kindly to it.  If you snatched up these words from another place, you best cite your source and give the original writer their due credit. 


Yes, I wrote it myself, you can check it. The only thing I took information about the principle of operation of GAP Limit from the Ledger website:
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010892360-Address-gap-limit?docs=true
But I described his work in my own words
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November 09, 2023, 04:44:30 PM
Merited by Marvelman (1)
 #4

If your question is about maybe the hardware wallet will get filed with plenty addresses or UTXO, the answer is no, because only thing stored on hardware wallet is your private keys or seed phrase. They are stored on the blockchain and wallets or clients scan the blockchain to see what’s on your address.

As for gap limits, which is set at 20 unused addresses, your client cannot only access a coin on an address if it is received on an address that is yet to be scanned by that client or say wallet for example the last scanned address are 21, if a coin is received on address 22 it won’t reflect yet read about it here. This build up doesn’t fill your Hardware wallet because UTXO are stored on the blockchain

Edit;


Yes, I wrote it myself, you can check it. The only thing I took information about the principle of operation of GAP Limit from the Ledger website:
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010892360-Address-gap-limit?docs=true
But I described his work in my own words

You should always consider adding links of where you get an insight of your posts from.

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Marvelman
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November 09, 2023, 04:58:35 PM
 #5

Yes, I wrote it myself, you can check it. The only thing I took information about the principle of operation of GAP Limit from the Ledger website:
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010892360-Address-gap-limit?docs=true
But I described his work in my own words

As I said before, plagiarism is not allowed here! You didn't describe how the GAP Limit works in your own words; instead, you simply shuffled a few words to camouflage your copy-paste.

These are "your words":
How GAP Limit works:
The blockchain contains records of public addresses and their balances. To display your account balance, the wallet checks your transaction history on the blockchain. Since accounts for Bitcoin and Bitcoin-based coins use multiple public addresses, the wallet only needs to look up the public addresses that are in use.

Public addresses are obtained from the account's extended public key (xpub) by incrementing the address index in the receiving path. Typically, wallet follow the BIP44 standard, which dictates that wallets look 20 addresses forward from the last address used.

If you receive a transaction to the first address, the wallet will scan up to 21 addresses for transaction history. If nothing is found, the search will stop. If a payment was received at address 22, the wallet will not see it, since it stopped at address 21.

This is the original article:

https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010892360-Address-gap-limit


A S M (OP)
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November 09, 2023, 05:05:20 PM
 #6

If your question is about maybe the hardware wallet will get filed with plenty addresses or UTXO, the answer is no, because only thing stored on hardware wallet is your private keys or seed phrase. They are stored on the blockchain and wallets or clients scan the blockchain to see what’s on your address.

As for gap limits, which is set at 20 unused addresses, your client cannot only access a coin on an address if it is received on an address that is yet to be scanned by that client or say wallet for example the last scanned address are 21, if a coin is received on address 22 it won’t reflect yet read about it here. This build up doesn’t fill your Hardware wallet because UTXO are stored on the blockchain

Edit;


Yes, I wrote it myself, you can check it. The only thing I took information about the principle of operation of GAP Limit from the Ledger website:
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010892360-Address-gap-limit?docs=true
But I described his work in my own words

You should always consider adding links of where you get an insight of your posts from.

You didn’t quite understand me, I have no doubt that the wallet can create any number of addresses, but the question is whether the server can easily service requests for scanning addresses with balance history, if there are tens of thousands of such addresses.

Regarding the link, I took from the Ledger website only information about the operation of GAP Limit, which works similarly in most hardware wallets. I made all other conclusions myself

A S M (OP)
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November 09, 2023, 05:15:22 PM
 #7

Yes, I wrote it myself, you can check it. The only thing I took information about the principle of operation of GAP Limit from the Ledger website:
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010892360-Address-gap-limit?docs=true
But I described his work in my own words

As I said before, plagiarism is not allowed here! You didn't describe how the GAP Limit works in your own words; instead, you simply shuffled a few words to camouflage your copy-paste.

These are "your words":
How GAP Limit works:
The blockchain contains records of public addresses and their balances. To display your account balance, the wallet checks your transaction history on the blockchain. Since accounts for Bitcoin and Bitcoin-based coins use multiple public addresses, the wallet only needs to look up the public addresses that are in use.

Public addresses are obtained from the account's extended public key (xpub) by incrementing the address index in the receiving path. Typically, wallet follow the BIP44 standard, which dictates that wallets look 20 addresses forward from the last address used.

If you receive a transaction to the first address, the wallet will scan up to 21 addresses for transaction history. If nothing is found, the search will stop. If a payment was received at address 22, the wallet will not see it, since it stopped at address 21.

This is the original article:
https://talkimg.com/images/2023/11/09/tgkno.jpeg
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010892360-Address-gap-limit



Yes, to describe the problem I had to take only part of the information about the operation of GAP Limit, but below I provided the source, all other conclusions as well as the essence of the problem were written by me myself.
light_warrior
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November 09, 2023, 05:22:48 PM
Merited by Marvelman (1)
 #8

Yes, I wrote it myself, you can check it. The only thing I took information about the principle of operation of GAP Limit from the Ledger website:
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010892360-Address-gap-limit?docs=true
But I described his work in my own words

As I said before, plagiarism is not allowed here! You didn't describe how the GAP Limit works in your own words; instead, you simply shuffled a few words to camouflage your copy-paste.

This comrade created the same topic in the Russian section, where he also did not indicate the source from where he took the text. Instead, he accused users of not understanding the topic under discussion and simply closed his topic and wrote in red text a request to delete this topic. I wrote my post about it in a special Russian-language topic and reported it to the moderators.
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November 09, 2023, 05:25:29 PM
Last edit: November 09, 2023, 05:39:31 PM by satscraper
 #9


The blockchain contains records of public addresses and their balances.

Wrong. Blockchain contains  records of UTXO's relevant to public keys rather than "addresses and their balances. "

The balance of a specific address is calculated  by the software wallet , which calculates it by adding up all the UTXOs associated with the address's public key. This calculation is performed if the address corresponds to the public-private key pair managed by the wallet.

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Marvelman
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November 09, 2023, 05:27:21 PM
 #10

Yes, to describe the problem I had to take only part of the information about the operation of GAP Limit, but below I provided the source, all other conclusions as well as the essence of the problem were written by me myself.

Just put the frickin' link in the article and stop arguing about it before moderators ban you. This is friendly advice.

And by the way, making consecutive posts is also not allowed. Read the forum rules here: Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ

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November 10, 2023, 11:02:48 AM
 #11

Now imagine the situation that you are a very active user and receive several dozen payments to new addresses per day and over the years, the server will have to scan tens of thousands of addresses every time you access it. What will happen in this case?
It'd probably take a very long time for the synchronization process to finish and this happens every time you launch any of the compatible software.

Will the server throw an error or continue to endure the bullying of such users and sooner or later will it crash?
Depending on the devices [not just your HW] involved, there's a small chance of experiencing crashes [if you own a Ledger device, I'd recommend using Electrum for such things (IIRC, ledger live has a maximum limit of 999)]!
- Personally, I never experienced any crashes for increasing my gap limit to 2000, but I've seen others with smaller gap limits encountering such problems (BTW, I do not own any Ledger devices).

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