fiat vs commodity

[naikturun]

okay here I just want to find out the answer from the members here because I think about it and sometimes get curious 
People say that if we save 100k$ in the bank and take it out, say 5 years later, the value will not be equivalent to 100k$ 5 years ago.
then if I put my money 100k$ into bitcoin 5 years later the value let's just say it rises to 300k$. just for example.

My question is whether the price of bitcoin is rising or is fiat experiencing a decline?
because someone on the internet I saw once said, house prices don't rise, fiat is the one that weakens every year.

so if you buy a house for 20k$ in 1980 then sell it now for 500k$, he says that the house is not going up but the fiat is going down.
that's why we see rising prices in commodities in the long term.
Are all commodities actually stable, but fiat is weakening or are there exceptions?

I saw Robert Kiyosaki say he owns 15,000 houses and doesn't like Bitcoin a few years ago, but recently I looked back at his interview when he said he bought Bitcoin, and said it was a valuable asset?
does he see that bitcoin is an opportunity?


any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

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[jrrsparkles]

My question is whether the price of bitcoin is rising or is fiat experiencing a decline?
because someone on the internet I saw once said, house prices don't rise, fiat is the one that weakens every year.

I would say it is happening because of both.

First, the value of bitcoin depends on the demand and supply so over time the users of bitcoin are expected to increase so if that happens as per the demand and supply rule the value will be higher.

Second, the value of fiat is losing its purchasing value whenever the government is printing more papers.

[EarnOnVictor]

My question is whether the price of bitcoin is rising or is fiat experiencing a decline?
because someone on the internet I saw once said, house prices don't rise, fiat is the one that weakens every year.

People over-exaggerate things and the simple answer here is that Bitcoin as an asset has the tendency to appreciate in value, to the point that in just a year at a time, it could have increased in x5 of the invested value. But be careful as this is not the case all the time, there are times you would invest in it but might lose /5 of the money, so the knowledge and the time of investment matters. And for fiat, if you save it in the bank, the interest would not be as much as that of Bitcoin, and we all know how inflation is battling the economy, therefore it won't be able to retain the value as it were when you bought it like say 5 years ago.

so if you buy a house for 20k$ in 1980 then sell it now for 500k$, he says that the house is not going up but the fiat is going down.
that's why we see rising prices in commodities in the long term.
Are all commodities actually stable, but fiat is weakening or are there exceptions?

The person is saying nonsense about the house remark, an investment is an investment whether Bitcoin or property buying or anything, it's about making more money. If you invested $20k in housing and gained $500k, that means you have earned x25 of your investment, which is against inflation. Bitcoin can't do more than that, and real estate is an investment just like Bitcoin, it's your choice to invest in either of them. Don't mind them misguiding people that Bitcoin is the only hedge against inflation.

I saw Robert Kiyosaki say he owns 15,000 houses and doesn't like Bitcoin a few years ago, but recently I looked back at his interview when he said he bought Bitcoin, and said it was a valuable asset?
does he see that bitcoin is an opportunity?

Yes, he saw an opportunity in Bitcoin. Of late, the media is propagating the halving season of Bitcoin, this is the season when Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies appreciate significantly in price. This might be what Robert Kiyosaki realized and trying to diversify his portfolio. But he can't sell all his property to buy Bitcoin.

[Husires]

Inflation is devouring local currencies at a rapid pace. The best performing currencies against the dollar may witness limited growth and the collapse of the value of the dollar against fixed assets. Gold is measured in terms of 5 to 10 years. As for Bitcoin, during the past few years the price has proven that it rises regardless of the value of the dollar. If we take gold as a measure of value. The value of Bitcoin rose sharply against gold in a curve that changed from the dollar. This leads us to conclude that Bitcoin has not reached its actual value and will continue to increase until it reaches it.

[bluebit25]

So what is the value of anything determined by?

That's why you will encounter many people accepting the fact that 1 bitcoin = 1 bitcoin, 1 USD = 1 USD

Allow yourself time to see that from birth to death is a big journey, and we always need to learn and apply it to every field in which we participate. Sometimes the confusion between movement/fixity causes many people to confuse finding the true meaning of life. And here we can all easily access the opportunity with bitcoin as well as the risks in that exposure process, but perhaps the truth is that bitcoin will help our lives more in one place where fairness is emphasized.

[Charles-Tim]

I saw Robert Kiyosaki say he owns 15,000 houses and doesn't like Bitcoin a few years ago, but recently I looked back at his interview when he said he bought Bitcoin, and said it was a valuable asset?
does he see that bitcoin is an opportunity?

Bitcoin is an asset of value.

Bitcoin was once a time at less than $1
The price in 2012 was around $12 but increasing
Bitcoin has been increasing in price continuously in a way its increase is more than its decrease.
The low price in 2018 was $3100 or so after $19650 which was its 2017 highest price.
All-time-high price is $69000 in 2021
Its price today is $37350

Bitcoin price continue to increase and decrease but in long term it increased. It is an appreciative asset and worth buying at the right time when its price has decreased. It is not still too late to buy before 2024 halving which is not more than 5 or 6 months away.

[BenCodie]

My question is whether the price of bitcoin is rising or is fiat experiencing a decline?
because someone on the internet I saw once said, house prices don't rise, fiat is the one that weakens every year.

Historically, when the price of gold has increased, it has been because of the decreasing value or purchasing power of money. Bitcoin works similarly due to it's similar economic characteristics, though I think one of the superb things about Bitcoin as a cyber commodity, is that it gains strength from its own use case and development, which is something that is not entirely the case with gold anymore (in its early times though, it did have use case discovery but markets were no where near as a good at efficiently valuing things as they are now)

In short, the answer is both! This can be seen clearly on Bitcoin's graph

[Eternad]

so if you buy a house for 20k$ in 1980 then sell it now for 500k$, he says that the house is not going up but the fiat is going down.
that's why we see rising prices in commodities in the long term.
Are all commodities actually stable, but fiat is weakening or are there exceptions?

This is correct interpretation on how inflation works. Many people think that the value of an asset such house is increasing over time but the real reason behind the increase of value is due to the fiat weakening of buying power due to excessive circulation over time since fiat has unlimited supply.

You will notice that most of the commodity including salaries is increasing too not because of appreciation of their value but rather fiat supply is already saturated that makes it value less in terms of buying power.

[btc78]

I would say the word weakening is the right term

 fiat and bitcoin both share the fundamental concept of supply and demand

money loses value mainly because of inflation
with fiat if there are more printed money than the circulating products so now products are much more expensive then fiat loses its purchasing power and that’s inflation

more demand than supply results in higher prices

bitcoin has only limited supply the more people are buying the higher the value goes up

[philipma1957]

My question is whether the price of bitcoin is rising or is fiat experiencing a decline?
because someone on the internet I saw once said, house prices don't rise, fiat is the one that weakens every year.

Historically, when the price of gold has increased, it has been because of the decreasing value or purchasing power of gold. Bitcoin is works similarly due to it's similar economic characteristics, though I think one of the superb things about Bitcoin as a cyber commodity, is that it gains strength from its own use case and development, which is something that is not entirely the case with gold anymore (in its early times though, it did have use case discovery but markets were no where near as a good at efficiently valuing things as they are now)

In short, the answer is both! This can be seen clearly on the graph

This is best way to describe it.

You can toss in gold and homes and silver etc.

They all travel on a value path when compared to one another.

Gold sucked from 1992 to 2003 it stayed in a 200-400 usd slot.

 it is now about 2000 so it did better from 2003 to 2023.

 homes sucked from 2007 to 2015 but were great from 2020 to 2023.

btc sucked from nov 2021 to nov 2023

but were great from dec 2018 to nov 2021

so you can see cherry picking the good times or the bad times shows variations

[Mr. Magkaisa]

    -  The house may not increase in value when it lasts if it is not renovated, but the land the house is built on increases in value as time passes.

Now the question for Kiyosaki is: maybe he saw the potential of Bitcoin, and it is normal for him to invest in Bitcoin because he is a businessman and he really knows that he will make a profit from a volatile asset like Bitcoin. Maybe he will buy again now because he has seen more and more people investing in Bitcoin.

[sokani]

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Inflation is a global issue that's ripping off the fiat. If you save $100M in a bank for the next 5 year, your money will not be valued at $100M again because the price of commodity in the market must have increased over the years. If a bag of rice sells at $60, in the next 5 years it might be at $100 or more, so the fiat is declining in value as a result of high inflation rate. But if you use same amount to buy Bitcoin during the bear season, you hodl and sell during the bull season, inflation will have no effect on your savings because your Bitcoin would have also appreciated in value. So Bitcoin is an edge against inflation.

[Plaguedeath]

House price is increased, don't compare between 1980s where the number of population is way smaller which make almost everyone afford to buy house after work for 2-3 years. While right now the population is really big, while land supply is limited, that's make not everyone can afford to buy house. House price will not increased if the population is stable or decreased, last few years the house price is quite stable until now.

While Bitcoin, definitely it's the most promising asset in the current generation and it's not yet reach the mass adoption.

[kentrolla]

It's a hard mix of both , as value of fiat is depricating to a small extend as well as commodities increasing and increasing inflation is causing the price of commodities to increase but value of Fiat remains more or less same.

I will give you an example of myself. I have recently started construction of my house and I had got a quote from a building contractor 2 years ago and now the quotation which I got is 55% more than what was quoted  2 years earlier and the reason given was the price of petrol/gas has increased and thus the transportation cost of raw materials have increased. It's a chain process and we can neither beat inflation with our fiat nor cope up with it if we save in fiat hence Bitcoin or stock would be better option here.

[Lamkuthang]

House price is increased, don't compare between 1980s where the number of population is way smaller which make almost everyone afford to buy house after work for 2-3 years. While right now the population is really big, while land supply is limited, that's make not everyone can afford to buy house. House price will not increased if the population is stable or decreased, last few years the house price is quite stable until now.

While Bitcoin, definitely it's the most promising asset in the current generation and it's not yet reach the mass adoption.

Not only are house prices for living in expensive now, boarding house prices also rise if demand is high, especially if the location is strategic. We can easily find this in reputable campus complexes where students are always looking for temporary accommodation that is not far from where they study, is safe and saves time.

[knowngunman]

My question is whether the price of bitcoin is rising or is fiat experiencing a decline?
because someone on the internet I saw once said, house prices don't rise, fiat is the one that weakens every year.

so if you buy a house for 20k$ in 1980 then sell it now for 500k$, he says that the house is not going up but the fiat is going down.
that's why we see rising prices in commodities in the long term.
Are all commodities actually stable, but fiat is weakening or are there exceptions?

If we are to go by this analogy, then we can say bitcoin is not increasing in value but fiat is declining in value. As far as I know, inflation can indeed cause the prices of goods and services to rise over time and thereby making it seem like the value of fiat currencies is declining but this is not always the case especially in the housing industry that you use as example. The prices of different commodities can fluctuate quite a bit over time depending on factors like supply and demand. Houses increases in value regardless of inflation is high or not but it depends on where the house is located and how liveable the place is.

if we look at the nominal price of the house, it has gone up by 2,500% since 1980. But if we look at the real price of the house and taking inflation into account, it's only gone up by 29%. So the nominal price increase makes it seem like the house has gained a lot of value but the real price increase tells a different story. The argument here is that both fiat and commodities can go up or down in value over time depending on various factors.

[ichsan ardi]

okay here I just want to find out the answer from the members here because I think about it and sometimes get curious 
People say that if we save 100k$ in the bank and take it out, say 5 years later, the value will not be equivalent to 100k$ 5 years ago.
then if I put my money 100k$ into bitcoin 5 years later the value let's just say it rises to 300k$. just for example.

My question is whether the price of bitcoin is rising or is fiat experiencing a decline?
because someone on the internet I saw once said, house prices don't rise, fiat is the one that weakens every year.

so if you buy a house for 20k$ in 1980 then sell it now for 500k$, he says that the house is not going up but the fiat is going down.
that's why we see rising prices in commodities in the long term.
Are all commodities actually stable, but fiat is weakening or are there exceptions?

I saw Robert Kiyosaki say he owns 15,000 houses and doesn't like Bitcoin a few years ago, but recently I looked back at his interview when he said he bought Bitcoin, and said it was a valuable asset?
does he see that bitcoin is an opportunity?


any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

That's true, since when did fiat improve, but every year it decreases, because as far as I know, fiat will continue to be printed because there is no fiat basis, but the belief is different from before, fiat had a 1:1 gold basis, now it doesn't exist, I think the purpose of creating Bitcoin is releasing us from fiat because there are only 21 million bitcoins in the world, it cannot be further different from fiat which has no limit on the amount of its supply and I think bitcoin can be said to be a discovery so that we can be separated from the fiat system, what do you think?

[BenCodie]

My question is whether the price of bitcoin is rising or is fiat experiencing a decline?
because someone on the internet I saw once said, house prices don't rise, fiat is the one that weakens every year.

Historically, when the price of gold has increased, it has been because of the decreasing value or purchasing power of gold. Bitcoin is works similarly due to it's similar economic characteristics, though I think one of the superb things about Bitcoin as a cyber commodity, is that it gains strength from its own use case and development, which is something that is not entirely the case with gold anymore (in its early times though, it did have use case discovery but markets were no where near as a good at efficiently valuing things as they are now)

In short, the answer is both! This can be seen clearly on the graph

This is best way to describe it.

You can toss in gold and homes and silver etc.

They all travel on a value path when compared to one another.

Gold sucked from 1992 to 2003 it stayed in a 200-400 usd slot.

 it is now about 2000 so it did better from 2003 to 2023.

 homes sucked from 2007 to 2015 but were great from 2020 to 2023.

btc sucked from nov 2021 to nov 2023

but were great from dec 2018 to nov 2021

so you can see cherry picking the good times or the bad times shows variations

80's 90's - formation and completion process of global recession
90's to 2010's - artificial money strength, gold sucked because it seemed like the great USD was strong! Really, base supply of money was expanding, the effect showed in 08/09'
2010-2015 - Financial crisis subsiding and recovery, then the EU turned the printers on....
2015-2020 - Every other central bank starts turning their printer on. "Quantitative easing" was the US's form of rapid expansion.
2020-2023 - Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr sound is made pretty much globally.

With this series of history, comparing to Gold and Bitcoin, you'll see where prices suppressed then eventually priced in when it's difficult for the suppression to continue.

Homes should be similar but behaved a little different over time due to the mortgage scheme and the value booms/crashes caused by that scheme.

So you can cherry pick good and bad times, but it can be lined up with what central banks are doing, and when it is out of their interest for gold or bitcoin to reflect higher values against money...similarly, when that suppression is too difficult to maintain, and when the value is finally priced in.

Also fixed my post, there was a couple of things that weren't worded perfectly

[STT]

My question is whether the price of bitcoin is rising or is fiat experiencing a decline?

Both of these things are occurring, its a bit of a treadmill.  Nominally all workers and even skilled trades people are better off by pure numbers but in value terms people realize they have suffered greatly from the inflation occurring over decades and a family with employed householders may struggle to pay the bills despite having good jobs.   This points to a problem which may cause economic upset, where money is no longer valid in its purpose to propagate value through prices in an economy.  So its both and its a confusing effect.

BTC prices isnt the final consideration, factors behind the price are more important really and represent value growth better.  However price is the most simple to appreciate guide especially short term to gains or losses.

[G_Besar]

okay here I just want to find out the answer from the members here because I think about it and sometimes get curious 
People say that if we save 100k$ in the bank and take it out, say 5 years later, the value will not be equivalent to 100k$ 5 years ago.
then if I put my money 100k$ into bitcoin 5 years later the value let's just say it rises to 300k$. just for example.

The money you save in the bank will never increase or increase, and if you get additional money when you withdraw your money, it will only be in the form of interest given by the bank itself. And I don't think it would be worth the five years, whereas Bitcoin is purely because there is a very real price increase in the market and can also be witnessed by many people.

My question is whether the price of bitcoin is rising or is fiat experiencing a decline?
because someone on the internet I saw once said, house prices don't rise, fiat is the one that weakens every year.

Fiat is very likely to weaken and this has been felt by many people every year, while Bitcoin clearly experiences an increase in price in each cycle so both are true. Likewise with houses, the price of which may never increase, but only the materials used to make the house increase in price, causing the house to become more expensive. And it is also accompanied by a weakening level of fiat due to several things, such as inflation, so there are two possibilities for one of the causes.

so if you buy a house for 20k$ in 1980 then sell it now for 500k$, he says that the house is not going up but the fiat is going down.
that's why we see rising prices in commodities in the long term.
Are all commodities actually stable, but fiat is weakening or are there exceptions?

We can say that almost all commodities have a stable value, but we cannot say that the fiat value will continue to be stable because shocks through inflation could cause the fiat value to collapse. So everyone has to spend more fiat when they want to spend on the same items in different years and even in the same year it can also be different.

I saw Robert Kiyosaki say he owns 15,000 houses and doesn't like Bitcoin a few years ago, but recently I looked back at his interview when he said he bought Bitcoin, and said it was a valuable asset?
does he see that bitcoin is an opportunity?

Robert Kiyosaki is a person who is smart enough to see and read opportunities so he will not ignore Bitcoin which has shown proof to many people for more than ten years. So we can also consider Bitcoin as a very good opportunity to earn more income in the future as said by Robert Kiyosaki where Bitcoin is a very valuable asset besides a house.