OFAC-Sanctioned Transactions Being Censored

[Don Pedro Dinero]

Within the debate that is going on here about whether people do not care about their privacy, whether they will adopt CBDCs and whether we in this forum are an exception in caring about these issues, I wanted to ask: what do you think about the fact that in this forum there are people who work for a mixer, in the signature campaign, and deposit the funds they receive directly into Binance? (see an image in the link)

Some user included me, received message from Binance that we recieved fund from Sinbad signature Escrow address and we have to give cleanliness that from where we recieved fund and what is our relationship with address owner.

I don't find the idea of receiving the payment and directly depositing it in a CEX like Binance, where you will be fully KYC'd, despite the fact that you are advertising a privacy tool, very coherent to say the least.

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[philipma1957]

Within the debate that is going on here about whether people do not care about their privacy, whether they will adopt CBDCs and whether we in this forum are an exception in caring about these issues, I wanted to ask: what do you think about the fact that in this forum there are people who work for a mixer, in the signature campaign, and deposit the funds they receive directly into Binance? (see an image in the link)

Some user included me, received message from Binance that we recieved fund from Sinbad signature Escrow address and we have to give cleanliness that from where we recieved fund and what is our relationship with address owner.

I don't find the idea of receiving the payment and directly depositing it in a CEX like Binance, where you will be fully KYC'd, despite the fact that you are advertising a privacy tool, very coherent to say the least.

Well many will not use a mixer but advertise it.

Much like my late father-in-law he owned a bar and bartended 6 days/night a week.

Yet he did not drink.

 I personally advertise a mixer as I no longer trust the USA government.
 I believe they have drifted far off track in the last 30 years.
 A constant failure of leadership and budgets year after year.
 But I am Locked into the system my wife and I get 3 federal pensions so I personally do endless KYC.
 Younger people can look at me and realize if privacy works for them they may want to try it out.

So much like my late father-in-law I do not 'drink'

[Abiky]

Yes, transaction data can be broadcasted to hell and back, perhaps even stored on a full node literally on the moon.
But if a miner doesn't include it in his blocks, what's the point?
That's the issue here. No matter how you broadcast transactions, miners wield more power over users.

Not all miners agree with censoring transactions. Those that are greedy will accept them, even if the government is against such a decision. That's the beauty of Bitcoin's decentralized design. At this point, we can say sanctions can't be enforced on Bitcoin at the protocol level. Only through centralized exchanges, services, and wallet providers.

If things get "tough" for the government, it will make Bitcoin "illegal' for mainstream use. But I doubt it, especially when Bitcoin (or any other cryptocurrency) brings huge taxation benefits to the government. As long as the government gets its "piece of the pie", nothing else matters. Hopefully, Bitcoin will remain censorship-resistant forever.

[DooMAD]

If things get "tough" for the government, it will make Bitcoin "illegal' for mainstream use. But I doubt it, especially when Bitcoin (or any other cryptocurrency) brings huge taxation benefits to the government.

That, and driving usage underground means they'd lose what tiny shred of control they do have over the on-ramps and off-ramps into fiat.  You could imagine that no one is going to volunteer for KYC if they know what they're doing is illegal anyway.  As such, most sensible governments are largely compelled to take the 'nudge theory' approach. 

[coolcoinz]

I'm just a regular middle class person. Bill Gates will keep flying his private jet and eating juicy steaks, while we will be forced to eat ze bugs.

Private jets. He owns at least 5. The brands are even listed if you google it. It's public knowledge. The boss himself has a carbon footprint of a small town, yet he wants to stop you and me from having our own.

IMO people aren't the sheep some posters here think they are. Yes, they chose credit cards over cash, but that's because most of them were certain that the money on their card is real cash converted to ones and zeros. The risk of using a card over cash wasn't really that big for your average joe, but the convenience was greatly increased.

Another one who doesn't get something basic. The money shown as balance on the (debit) cards is not real money, they are accounting entries based on a ponzi scheme, and in the case of credit cards it is even worse, because they are accounting entries passed on as money that are created as debt with every payment you make. But if you don't understand this very basic thing don't expect me to waste much time arguing with you, eh?

 

Then don't argue with me, since you read my sentence the wrong way, so I'll rephrase it for you.
I said that most of them (meaning creadit card users) think the money on a bank card are real cash converted to bank balance. I never said that I'm one of these people.

It looks like your whole post was based on a wrong assumption.

Sweden would love to have a word with you!

Sweden is an experiment on so many levels. Migration, money... I'd say the country is not doing so well because of that.

[o_e_l_e_o]

My disappointment arises from the fact that I have high expectations from Bitcoiners (unless they pretend to be Bitcoiners and in reality they're undercover feds)... they should not be so gullible.

There are plenty of people on this forum who cheer regulation since it means bitcoin "is going mainstream", who cheer KYC since it means bitcoin "will be safer to use", and who cheer governmental control because "institutions will make the price moon". Those same people will be quite happy with CBDCs. After all, the government only want to protect the children, right!?

https://shop.bitmain.com/product/detail?pid=00020231023114009392Wa6C3QuD0658
Ryzen 7 7800X3D, 12 kh/s, 120 W, $350 you get 1kh/s for 10W and 1 kh/s for $20
X5, 212 kh/S, 1350W, at $3000, you get 1 kh/s for 6W and 1kh/s for $14

Exactly. So this Monero "ASIC" is barely better than a CPU, which is exactly what is supposed to happen. ASICs on bitcoin are many orders of magnitude more efficient than CPU/GPU mining.

I said that most of them (meaning creadit card users) think the money on a bank card are real cash converted to bank balance. I never said that I'm one of these people.

You also said people aren't the sheep we think they are. But then you said they all use credit cards not understanding the money is not real (which I agree with), and they will all use CBDCs because they are convenient (which I also agree with). But surely just going along with what the banks tell you to do (use credit cards, use CBDCs) is exactly what the sheep would do?

[pooya87]

Judging by this thread, there is some denial that CBDCs aren't necessarily a bad thing, in fact it's such a "good" thing that people will be "enthusiastic" to abandon physical cash in favor of CBDC!

My disappointment arises from the fact that I have high expectations from Bitcoiners (unless they pretend to be Bitcoiners and in reality they're undercover feds)... they should not be so gullible.

CBDC is like a digital jail. Once you enter it, there is no going back to normal (as Klaus Schwab has said).

I wouldn't call CBDCs good or bad. They are what they are and that's not a new thing. People aren't entering a new jail, it is the same jail as they were in before with a new name. They entered that jail the day centralized banking was introduced and they went deeper into it as it grew specially with digital banking.

The centralized authority will hunger for more control and surveillance. The only thing that should matter to us is to preserve Bitcoin's principles so that we can keep it as that "exit option", not try to change the centralized world.

[serveria.com]

Recently I was scrolling on Twitter(X) and I came across something rather interesting..

A bitcoin developer that I follow on there (@0xB10C) posted this on his page. [1]

Given the community's commitment to upholding the censorship resistance of our network, I deemed it appropriate to conduct a thorough reading.


Here's what I found:

Firstly, the developers project aims to detect instances where Bitcoin mining pools fail to mine transactions they could have included. The Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC), a bureau in the U.S. Treasury Department, is responsible for enforcing economic and trade sanctions aligning with U.S. foreign policy, targeting countries, terrorists, and threats to national security. Over the past weeks, the project identified six missing transactions from OFAC-sanctioned addresses, prompting an investigation into whether these omissions were intentional or had alternative explanations.

The RSS feed reported missing transactions from ViaBTC, Foundry USA, and F2Pool, involving OFAC-sanctioned addresses.The analysis explores various reasons for transactions being absent from blocks, such as network propagation, individual node differences, and pool transaction prioritization. The primary goal is to determine whether mining pools intentionally filter OFAC-sanctioned transactions and assess the impact on Bitcoin's censorship-resistant properties.

One missing transaction from ViaBTC's block 808660 was due to the prioritization of other transactions by ViaBTC's Bitcoin Transaction Accelerator, indicating it was not intentionally filtered. Foundry USA's block 813231 did not include a sanctioned transaction due to potential delays in transaction propagation. Again, unintentional.
According to the report, the analysis suggests that F2Pool omitted transactions from OFAC-sanctioned addresses in blocks 810727, 811791, 811920, and 813357. The reasons for the omission vary for each block, but the common thread is the likelihood of intentional filtering by F2Pool. Here's a breakdown of the reasons for the omission in each block:

Block 810727:

F2Pool did not include this transaction, and instead, another transaction was included. The report suggests that the missing transaction had a slightly higher fee rate but was 3 vBytes smaller than the included transaction. Despite the fee rate advantage, the larger transaction was chosen.

Block 811791:

The report indicates that F2Pool omitted this transaction, and despite having enough space in the block, it was likely intentionally filtered. The presence of extra transactions in the block did not affect the inclusion of the sanctioned transaction, making intentional filtering more plausible.

Block 811920:

F2Pool did not include this large consolidation transaction in the block, and the report suggests that the transaction might not have propagated to F2Pool in time, but it's also likely that it was intentionally filtered. The transaction was marked as "recently broadcast" on mempool.space.

Block 813357:

F2Pool excluded this consolidation transaction from the block, and the report indicates that, similar to the case in block 811791, it's likely intentionally filtered. The transaction had been in the node’s mempool for more than 25 minutes, making it less likely that it wasn't known to F2Pool when building the block.


In summary, the report concludes that these transactions were likely intentionally filtered by F2Pool, This raises the question of why F2Pool, a pool with origins in Asia, is the first pool to filter transactions based on US OFAC sanctions, especially considering that other transactions with similar or lower fee rates were included in the blocks.

The original report can be found here. I highly encourage giving it a read. [2]

----------

I find myself uncertain about how to interpret all of this information. Despite the seemingly small number of just six transactions, the fact that such situations are possible raises concerns. I'm grappling with whether this should be a cause for worry in the future or if it's perhaps an overblown issue. The writer of the report leaves us with this:

The Bitcoin network, however, continues to work as normal. A single pool filtering transactions does not affect the censorship resistance of the Bitcoin network as a whole. Further monitoring of the transaction selection of mining pools allows identifying when more pools start to filter transactions based on, for example, OFAC sanctions. It also allows miners pointing their hashrate to these pools to make an informed decision on switching to a different pool if they don’t agree with a pool’s (unannounced) filtering policies.

[1] https://x.com/0xB10C/status/1726964430460588201?s=20
[2] https://b10c.me/observations/08-missing-sanctioned-transactions/

Well this is big if true. I wonder what all those monkey pic fans are going to say now? We can't filter spam ddos monkey pic transactions but uncle Sam can filter whatever seems unacceptable for them? Right? I'm ready to hear your whining... gotta stock up on popcorn and enjoy the comments... 

[o_e_l_e_o]

People aren't entering a new jail, it is the same jail as they were in before with a new name.

The goal of CBDCs is to eliminate cash and have everything electronic, and therefore have everything 100% traceable and 100% censorable. This is definitely worse than the current system, where you can at least escape some surveillance and retain some control by using cash.

[cryptosize]

People aren't entering a new jail, it is the same jail as they were in before with a new name.

The goal of CBDCs is to eliminate cash and have everything electronic, and therefore have everything 100% traceable and 100% censorable. This is definitely worse than the current system, where you can at least escape some surveillance and retain some control by using cash.

Exactly!

I know no-coiners who understand this, so I'm surprised Bitcoiners don't get it.

Judging by this thread, there is some denial that CBDCs aren't necessarily a bad thing, in fact it's such a "good" thing that people will be "enthusiastic" to abandon physical cash in favor of CBDC!

My disappointment arises from the fact that I have high expectations from Bitcoiners (unless they pretend to be Bitcoiners and in reality they're undercover feds)... they should not be so gullible.

CBDC is like a digital jail. Once you enter it, there is no going back to normal (as Klaus Schwab has said).

I wouldn't call CBDCs good or bad. They are what they are and that's not a new thing. People aren't entering a new jail, it is the same jail as they were in before with a new name. They entered that jail the day centralized banking was introduced and they went deeper into it as it grew specially with digital banking.

The centralized authority will hunger for more control and surveillance. The only thing that should matter to us is to preserve Bitcoin's principles so that we can keep it as that "exit option", not try to change the centralized world.

Not true.

The current banking system doesn't have: 1) carbon credits, 2) social credit score.

Look it up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djpRUafjx7c

MasterCard has already implemented it:

https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/vision/corp-responsibility/priceless-planet/carbon-calculator.html
https://www.mastercard.com/news/press/2021/april/mastercard-unveils-new-carbon-calculator-tool/

And no, this won't be optional with CBDC + Digital ID... I remember people thinking COVID mRNA vaccines would be "optional".

They're "optional" only if you don't mind losing access to workplaces, universities, hospitals, cafes/restaurants (remember the QR/Green Pass?) etc.

The danger is real and the more people dismiss it, the more it creeps up into our lives.

[pooya87]

People aren't entering a new jail, it is the same jail as they were in before with a new name.

The goal of CBDCs is to eliminate cash and have everything electronic, and therefore have everything 100% traceable and 100% censorable. This is definitely worse than the current system, where you can at least escape some surveillance and retain some control by using cash.

That's true but my point is that we have been on this path of digitalization and full monitoring for a long time, even before the concept of CBDC was introduced. They are just trying to centralize it more and force it on the population under a fancy name. Otherwise in this day and age people aren't using cash that much already and majority of their transactions are already easily surveilled.

The current banking system doesn't have: 1) carbon credits, 2) social credit score.

Current banking system already has a record of all your financial activity that goes through them without having a fancy disguise for it and on top of that there is a massive database in NSA with your every move inside of it, your financial activity is the least of it. After all they have to use their tens of billions of dollars budget for something!

They're "optional" only if you don't mind losing access to workplaces, universities, hospitals, cafes/restaurants (remember the QR/Green Pass?) etc.

THEY aren't optional, Bitcoin is. You have the option to choose bitcoin to exit that corrupt system and cut the hands that are in your pocket.

[cryptosize]

The current banking system doesn't have: 1) carbon credits, 2) social credit score.

Current banking system already has a record of all your financial activity that goes through them without having a fancy disguise for it and on top of that there is a massive database in NSA with your every move inside of it, your financial activity is the least of it. After all they have to use their tens of billions of dollars budget for something!

You still don't get it... my point wasn't the record of financial history.

Currently I'm able to buy as much red meat/gasoline as I like with fiat money (either cash or credit/debit card). Right?

Will you be able to do the same with CBDC? Or will they restrict your red meat/gasoline consumption to "mitigate" climate change? Answer this question please.

THEY aren't optional, Bitcoin is. You have the option to choose bitcoin to exit that corrupt system and cut the hands that are in your pocket.

Sure, BTC is an option (as long as it doesn't become centralized/censor-friendly).

XMR is potentially another...

You will be forced to use the black/grey market to buy red meat or gasoline in the future. They will be like drugs (cocaine, heroin). People don't use banks/cards to buy drugs, they use cash for a reason.

[cryptosize]

If you guys still believe this is a "conspiracy theory", then I don't know what else to tell you:

It’s time to limit how often we can travel abroad – ‘carbon passports’ may be the answer

https://edition.cnn.com/travel/carbon-passports-explainer/index.html

This is only possible with CBDC + carbon credits.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Otherwise in this day and age people aren't using cash that much already and majority of their transactions are already easily surveilled.

Most people still use cash a bit, and some people (like me) still use cash a lot. Just because a majority of sheep won't notice any difference doesn't mean we should roll over and accept CBDCs. And just because a majority of people won't be affected by OFAC censorship in bitcoin doesn't mean we should just roll over and accept that either.

What the majority are doing is a very bad metric when it comes to privacy, as most people simply don't care until it affects them personally.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

Where I live, even in small shops you go to pay for a coffee and they bring out the POS as if they assume you are going to pay by card or mobile phone. Sometimes I feel weird taking out the cash, but I still pay with cash as much as possible for ideological reasons, activism if you want to call it that. Although it seems to me to be swimming against the tide and news like the banning of mixers on the forum, the possibility of censoring transactions becoming more and more real and the legislations that are being prepared make me see the future quite dark.

If we add to that the number of people who worked for a mixer and received payments directly in their Binance accounts, at least seven, I see it as even darker.

[coolcoinz]

I said that most of them (meaning creadit card users) think the money on a bank card are real cash converted to bank balance. I never said that I'm one of these people.

You also said people aren't the sheep we think they are. But then you said they all use credit cards not understanding the money is not real (which I agree with), and they will all use CBDCs because they are convenient (which I also agree with). But surely just going along with what the banks tell you to do (use credit cards, use CBDCs) is exactly what the sheep would do?

What I meant by "they're not the sheep" is that there's a boundary that when crossed causes people to rise up and riot. You could for instance see it when the governments enforced covid lockdowns.

Yes, people like convenience and usually don't care where the money comes from, which is why they use credit cards and will probably use CBDC money, but it will all stop when the government forbids them to use any other form of payment (cash, crypto) and when they get to feel the impact of social credit scores and carbon footprint taxation. IMO people who are for CBDCs and might use them don't realize yet what they'll bring to the table along with the so called convenience.

I wouldn't call CBDCs good or bad. They are what they are and that's not a new thing. People aren't entering a new jail, it is the same jail as they were in before with a new name. They entered that jail the day centralized banking was introduced and they went deeper into it as it grew specially with digital banking.

Using your analogy, you're being moved from a normal prison to maximum security, but you're still in jail. If that isn't a bad thing then what is?
I'd call them bad because they bring along complete elimination of other forms of payment once enough people use them along fiat money.

They will first invite you to use CBDC, by lowering taxes, giving people free money if they register and download wallets, (which is the carrot) and once there's enough market penetration they'll start using the stick and increasing fees when you use other money, impose additional taxes on merchants who continue to use fiat, decrease the number of available ATMs, increase limits on cash payments and finally remove cash completely. They'll stop printing it and the bills that are in exchange will become scarcer. Also, in countries with high inflation it will take maybe 10 years before there's a need for larger bills and the gov. will not print them, to make it inconvenient for people to carry bags of cash around. The problem will solve itself.

[apogio]

People aren't entering a new jail, it is the same jail as they were in before with a new name.

The goal of CBDCs is to eliminate cash and have everything electronic, and therefore have everything 100% traceable and 100% censorable. This is definitely worse than the current system, where you can at least escape some surveillance and retain some control by using cash.

The question is: is it better to use card payments with the current system? Or CBDCs? To me they are the same. I see no difference at all.

I hate both, but I admit I use card payments a lot. Some entity is behind the transaction anyway, so...

[cryptosize]

People aren't entering a new jail, it is the same jail as they were in before with a new name.

The goal of CBDCs is to eliminate cash and have everything electronic, and therefore have everything 100% traceable and 100% censorable. This is definitely worse than the current system, where you can at least escape some surveillance and retain some control by using cash.

The question is: is it better to use card payments with the current system? Or CBDCs? To me they are the same. I see no difference at all.

I hate both, but I admit I use card payments a lot. Some entity is behind the transaction anyway, so...

They are NOT the same.

Have you read the entire discussion?

CBDC introduces new variables (carbon credits, social credit score). Cards are different.

[apogio]

CBDC introduces new variables (carbon credits, social credit score). Cards are different.

But credit cards are linked with banks. This means Visa, MasterCard etc all implement a credit score system for banks.

Btw yeah I have read the entire discussion.

[darkangel11]

But credit cards are linked with banks. This means Visa, MasterCard etc all implement a credit score system for banks.

Wait, are you saying that bank credit core system is similar to social credit score? You must be joking. These are not the same, not even close.
When bank loans you money it wants to know how if you have a stable job, if you have other existing loans and such.
A social credit score is when they check your recent posts on social platforms to see if you support the government and decide if they should loan you money based on that.