Bitcoin network fees are not high is you who can't afford it.

[Odusko]

Hey newbies and OGs, just i quick reminder of the current condition of the Bitcoin network and what it is like with the hike in transaction fees and network congestion.
First, as the title states clearly that Bitcoin network fees are not high but it is you as a holder who can't afford it, the reason being that many newbies and some few old members have mistaken this current network condition to mean a crisis, the reality of things is that, most Bitcoin old term holder are not complaining because they already have experience of how the Bitcoin networks work per time, and if they want to make a transaction they rather just pay high fees and move on rather than paying low fees with long time of waiting because a lot of transaction volumes that have higher fees than yours are already broadcast into the network so it takes long time before getting your transaction confirm.
I hope that a long time from now, most newbies will stop making news from this kind of temporary network congestion, and start focusing more on how to contribute to making the Bitcoin network cleaner and globally adaptable to all, for me I don't see any negativity in bitcoin but rather a lot of opportunity to develop along with Bitcoin as an alternative among another alternatives.

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[Odohu]

I don't agree with you on this. Before now, this was not the case with the network fees so it is a kind of crisis in my opinion. We in the Bitcoin community do pride in the fact that Bitcoin offers the most convenient and cheapest means of sending money across borders,  but the recent increase in fees have changed that. Should we pretend about it?

How can someone spend $33 to transfer less than $1k and you think that's not high? In my local currency, you will spend around $0.1 to send that, where then is the advantage of Bitcoin in terms of cost of transaction?

[AbuBhakar]

I can afford it but it’s really considering that there’s tons of blockchain alternatives that cost only less a than a dollar to send a transaction. The current fee is not the typical average so I’m not sure if being affordable is the real issue here.

With this thinking, you are limiting shrimp holder to use Bitcoin because it will be impossible for them to accumulate slowly through DCA by paying this high fee multiple times.

[Odusko]

I don't agree with you on this. Before now, this was not the case with the network fees so it is a kind of crisis in mu position. We in the Bitcoin community do pride in the fact that Bitcoin offers the most convenient and cheapest means of sending money across borders,  but the recent increase in fees has changed that. Should we pretend about it?

Says who?
Have you taken the time to research back on how the Bitcoin network has evolved over time, take a step back and check what the fees were like in 2017-2018 and other subsequent years and even more recently this is not the first time man.
I bet it will be of great favour to our mental state to take network crisis as a global crisis in the financial sector, the reason being that we have experienced similar network crises in our individual traditional banking networks sometimes you pay high fees for cross-border transactions.

[Cantsay]

The message your title is trying to pass to the community is that “Bitcoin is meant for the rich, and those that can afford to pay a high fee, and if you don’t have the resources don’t use bitcoin”.

most Bitcoin old term holder are not complaining because they already have experience of how the Bitcoin networks work per time, and if they want to make a transaction they rather just pay high fees and move on rather than paying low fees with long time of waiting

They didn’t complain openly does not mean that they are happy with it. I don’t think there’s anyone here in the forum that is willing to just go and spend 50x of what they usually spend and still be happy with it, even if they can afford it.

[Zaguru12]

Yes the network congestion itself is just showing a glimpse of probably how the network will be when mining stops and when we have high adoption rate, but the problem remains that people are furious about this high even the longer term holders because this fee is not incurred because of bitcoin alone but because of the shitcoins on the network. It would have been understandable that we are paying this high fees if at all the congestion in the pool is mainly because of high demands of bitcoin but it is not. So I don’t think anyone is happy to pay that amount at this senerio.

How can someone spend $33 to transfer less than $1k and you think that's not high? In my local currency, you will spend around $0.1 to send that, where then is the advantage of Bitcoin in terms of cost of transaction?

The fees haven’t been that too high I will say, the high fees as regularly been hovering around 500sats/vbyte which would amount to around $26 which quite low compare to your estimation. Although I doubt that you can pay $0.1 to transfer an amount worth $1k but it might be your country, even though it is like that it would be internal transaction and not cross boarder transactions because I am sure it will be more than that. As you know bitcoin doesn’t censor between inter or intra transactions that is where the decentralization comes from. It is better to know that using bitcoin transactions now should be when it is at your advantage, if the fiat has better advantage at that certain period of payment then make use of it, that’s why bitcoin is like an alternative to traditional currency

[Odusko]

The message your title is trying to pass to the community is that “Bitcoin is meant for the rich, and those that can afford to pay a high fee, and if you don’t have the resources don’t use Bitcoin”.

Not really,  but then Bitcoin transactions have chains and at any time, the sender can adjust the fees just to get his transaction through faster, so that doesn't mean even low Bitcoin holders can't use such a feature but the same rules apply to all of them.
Just like flying a first class and economy class, the same Aeroplan but different treatment, Bitcoin have given us a classless network, so for that how can I assume that Bitcoin is meant only for the rich, Bitcoin is a development that anyone who takes the time to study it can adapt to the network on a long term base.
I hope this clears things up a little buddy!

[Odohu]

I don't agree with you on this. Before now, this was not the case with the network fees so it is a kind of crisis in mu position. We in the Bitcoin community do pride in the fact that Bitcoin offers the most convenient and cheapest means of sending money across borders,  but the recent increase in fees has changed that. Should we pretend about it?

Says who?
Have you taken the time to research back on how the Bitcoin network has evolved over time, take a step back and check what the fees were like in 2017-2018 and other subsequent years and even more recently this is not the first time man.

The argument is not if this is the first time or not, it is if the network fee is high or not. If you agree with me that majority of the times the network fees was lower than fiat, and that the high network fees that happens sometimes is usually caused by something, then you will also agree with me that the post is wrong.

The message your title is trying to pass to the community is that “Bitcoin is meant for the rich, and those that can afford to pay a high fee, and if you don’t have the resources don’t use bitcoin”.

This is exactly the message the post is conveying even though that may not be the intention. Even some OGs still comfirm that the fee is high as it is impacting negatively on people and those who adopted Bitcoin as means of payment in their businesses.

[pakhitheboss]

Your interpretation of Bitcoin fee in your way is good but don't force the interpretation on other. Those who want to pay high fees woul pay and it is not about the high fee. It is the uncertainty and the volatile situation in the memepool.

If the memepool suggest 37 sat/vB and you process a transaction using it then also there is no guarantee that it will get processed in time. As I said earlier the problem is not high fee the problem is the volatility in transaction fees. You never know when it will straight away jump to 70 sat/vB or 100 sat/vB. I have not seen such amount of volatility in transaction fee until BRC20 came into existence.

[rachael9385]

Although, this is not the first time for such a hike on transaction fees  but come to think of it, isn't it overuse that this is the height of all the previous transactions fees?
During this short period of the transaction hikes, there have been a lot of mistakes just like on the link provided https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5475177.0
And anyone who make such a mistakes will definitely feel bad, so I am trying to say that this even if an investor have the money for the fees, he or she will still feel bad, it is not about having the coins for the fees.
Even if I have the money for the fees I will feel bad when processing the transactions because there have been days when the fees were not high as it is now.

[Ruttoshi]

OP, you sound as if you are so rich and you use bitcoin everyday, but you should also know that the high fee was the congestion of the mempool by those garbage which led to the cause of alarm. Bitcoin has always been attacked in different forms and bitcoin will still survive. If this was how the fee was initially then I doubt that all us of here will be spreading the good news of bitcoin because so many people will be discouraged to adopt bitcoin. You are only making it look as if using bitcoin is expensive which it is not.

Yes the network congestion itself is just showing a glimpse of probably how the network will be when mining stops and when we have high adoption rate

Yea I agree with you but let's wait till then because by then bitcoin price might have exceeded 6 digits to maybe 7 digits and paying such fee then wouldn't be a problem, and not now that bitcoin price is still 37k+. It shows it is abnormal.

[libert19]

Just because one can afford it does not make this fees alright. It's different feeling when you pay $2 for a transaction and when $15, you know you are paying more, and it's not normal.

[kentrolla]

Right from the title till last line of the post I couldn't find any sense at all. Why would someone pay multiples of what they used to pay as transaction fee and if you are trying to transfer a small amount then the transaction fee is higher than the actual transfer amount and Bitcoin was supposed to be an easy and cheapest way of P2P transfer but we don't expect transaction fees to go higher during bull run like gas and electricity bills which goes higher during winter season.

This has to be fixed we are supporter of Bitcoin that doesn't mean we will support the flaws as well. Sorry there might be different point of view but I feel this doesn't make sense.

[Iroh]

Your topic head is quite amusing. Following your logic, one can say luxurious vehicles like aren’t at all expensive and it’s only the majority of the general population that can’t seem to afford them.
I wouldn’t exactly call what’s going on now in the bitcoin network a crisis but you do you. Also, have you thought of the fact that why long term holders aren’t complaining is because they’re literally holding onto their assets and not having plans to sell anytime soon.
It’s all good the current network fees doesn’t seem high to you. But it’s definitely high for a lot of bitcoin users out there especially those in developing nations.

[Husires]

Complaining about fees may be a reason for devising solutions, and if you are complaining about high fees, there are ways to reduce the fees that you pay, as a transaction with one input may need $3 to be confirmed within 10 minutes, another with 10 inputs may need $20, and so on.
Understanding how Bitcoin works will make you pay the correct fees, which are often lower than choosing random fees, but increasing fees and continuing to rise will really affect the demand and adoption of Bitcoin.

[Winterfrost]

OP, I don't understand why you feel the need to say these things. Even someone who has been holding Bitcoin for a long time agrees that Bitcoin fees are high. If a person holds 1 BTC and wants to send $300 worth of BTC to someone else, and the fee shows $79, do you expect them to proceed? That would be foolish, OP. Yes, the person can afford the fee, but is it really necessary? I consider it a waste of the privilege of holding a substantial amount of Bitcoin. For many, $79 is what they use to regularly invest in Bitcoin weekly, aiming to grow their Bitcoin portfolio. Now, imagine if the person makes transactions every day you expecting them to constantly pay such high fees doesn't seem reasonable.

[DdmrDdmr]

Yep, this case depicts a guy who thought that Bitcoin fees were very cheap and said "Fuck it, fees are so cheap I’m going to spend 83 BTCs on fees just to prove to the world just how cheapsy they are …".

Exceptions aside, fees are indeed not above values seen in the past, but cost is probably best seen in comparison to the amount one wants to send. Clearly sending very small amounts of bitcoin, whilst within normal ranges for many to send, do encounter nowadays high fees compared to the base amount being sent. Fees on TXs that send higher amounts are relatively smaller compared to the base amount being sent, and thus are conceptually easier to digest.

For those who know why the fees are as they are nowadays, there’s also the added conceptual aggravation of fees having steepened not because of a natural set of circumstances like the 2017/2018 FOMO, but because of some abomination someone thought would be fun to base on the Bitcoin Network, flooding the mined blocks with Ordinal related TXs in ranges, as of late, between 40% and 70% of all mined TXs per day.

[Odusko]

Says who?
Have you taken the time to research back on how the Bitcoin network has evolved over time, take a step back and check what the fees were like in 2017-2018 and other subsequent years and even more recently this is not the first time man.

Odohu and others, sorry if the title of the thread has created a misunderstanding or a conflicting overview of the ops and I am sure that was not intentional and I apologize for that, but back to our discussion, and what the aim for this thread is and what it stands to help us unveil in terms of knowledge in term of constructive discussion just as what we are having and will be having subsequently as we progress in this discussion on the bitcoin fees and how best newbies could prepare their mind for future occurrences such as temporary Bitcoin network congestion and high fees and how best to handle this and what possible alternative to using is such situation.
Please 🙏 the basis for this thread is not to create an argument rather but to trigger up discussions that can help our basic knowledge.
Also, I have tried to edit the title a bit to give it a better introduction to what the ops really covers, hope this works well for you guys.
 

Yep, this case depicts a guy who thought that Bitcoin fees were very cheap and said "Fuck it, fees are so cheap I’m going to spend 83 BTCs on fees just to prove to the world just how cheapsy they are …".

Exceptions aside, fees are indeed not above values seen in the past, but cost is probably best seen in comparison to the amount one wants to send. Clearly sending very small amounts of bitcoin, whilst within normal ranges for many to send, do encounter nowadays high fees compared to the base amount being sent. Fees on TXs that send higher amounts are relatively smaller compared to the base amount being sent, and thus are conceptually easier to digest.

For those who know why the fees are as they are nowadays, there’s also the added conceptual aggravation of fees having steepened not because of a natural set of circumstances like the 2017/2018 FOMO, but because of some abomination someone thought would be fun to base on the Bitcoin Network, flooding the mined blocks with Ordinal related TXs in ranges, as of late, between 40% and 70% of all mined TXs per day.

Nice thank you for sharing the link to previous fees, the general notion for this thread is to discuss how best to handle such temporary network issues which is a global financial phenomenon and what best alternatives to use as urgent support or what development is underway to eliminate possible future occurrence,  and what the reality is for anyone who must use bitcoin network, how much fees willing to pay or what time to

[348Judah]

First, as the title states clearly that Bitcoin network fees are not high but it is you as a holder who can't afford it, the reason being that many newbies and some few old members have mistaken this current network condition to mean a crisis.

If you say it is then so be it because people aren't more comfortable about paying high fees while there are other networks with cheaper rates, i don't know how you come about talking in this kind of tone after knowing how this has been affecting alot of bitcoiners seriously.

most Bitcoin old term holder are not complaining because they already have experience of how the Bitcoin networks work per time, and if they want to make a transaction they rather just pay high fees and move on rather than paying low fees with long time of waiting

Could you afford paying $9 all because you want to send $10 maybe you need to consider here that not everyone is a whale or a giant holder who cannot waste time in waiting the confirmation

I hope that a long time from now, most newbies will stop making news from this kind of temporary network congestion, and start focusing more on how to contribute to making the Bitcoin network cleaner and globally adaptable to all, for me I don't see any negativity in bitcoin but rather a lot of opportunity to develop along with Bitcoin as an alternative among another alternatives.

People have to complain because this wasn't how it was before now, maybe you have perform any bitcoin transaction for a very long time and you're not getting to understand the rate at which people are making daily transactions and miners were being served with this benefits.

[Z390]

Are you trying to show off because you can afford the transaction fee? I can also afford it but honestly it's a waste of money,  there is nothing to be ashamed of if you decide to queue using small transaction fee or just abandon the transaction for now and try again another day.

The creator of Bitcoin never stated that this project is for those who can afford it, it's not meant for whales and not everyone will be whales anyway, mind you Bitcoin will be less attractive if newbies are finding the transaction fee to be annoying, there are too many block chain projects that offers cheap transaction fees.

It's right to ignore Bitcoin if the fee is too high, beginners need to accumulate Bitcoin with ease and if transaction fee is what's stopping them they have a good reason to look else where, I already pictured how the next bull market will look like, maybe Bitcoin is made for the whales to only to enjoy, but it's not a cool thing to say.

[Razmirraz]

High network fee will narrow or reduce Bitcoin transactions by a small amount. The complaints of beginners on the Bitcoin network that they think it is too high are very basic, usually beginners do not have large amounts of Bitcoin. When they wanted to send Bitcoin, they had to give up because they were hampered by network problems. The small amounts of Bitcoin they send need to be taken into account with network fees. High fees will drain some of their money, of course this will be a big obstacle for them.
High Bitcoin transaction fees will certainly feel expensive for small transactions, this condition will potentially limit the number of small Bitcoin transactions. Those making payments for goods and services will wait until transaction fees are low to make payments.

[Richbased]

Are you trying to show off because you can afford the transaction fee? I can also afford it but honestly it's a waste of money,  there is nothing to be ashamed of if you decide to queue using small transaction fee or just abandon the transaction for now and try again another day.

Maybe the OP is trying to show off in my own view like because someone has alot of bitcoin in his wallet is that enough reason to spend much on transaction fees? Hell no, we all know that the high transactions fee is as a result of congestion in the system which will eventually go down when the traffic becomes less. At this point I think bitcoin holders that wants to perform transactions should rather be patient and wait for the transactions fees to reduce before performing transactions or better just pay the high transactions fees that's for people that needs to perform urgent transaction.

The creator of Bitcoin never stated that this project is for those who can afford it, it's not meant for whales and not everyone will be whales anyway, mind you Bitcoin will be less attractive if newbies are finding the transaction fee to be annoying, there are too many block chain projects that offers cheap transaction fees.

Definitely, if the transactions fees continue to be this high it's really gonna scare away lots of newbies that wants to store bitcoins in personal wallets.

It's right to ignore Bitcoin if the fee is too high, beginners need to accumulate Bitcoin with ease and if transaction fee is what's stopping them they have a good reason to look else where, I already pictured how the next bull market will look like, maybe Bitcoin is made for the whales to only to enjoy, but it's not a cool thing to say.

Anyone who is accumulating bitcoins doesn't need to be in a hurry of performing transactions but rather instead should keep accumulating as against the upcoming bull market.

[Hamza2424]

First of all, Bitcoin fees are not high for the old holders those who are entering now in the market with fewer Bitcoins, The current network fees are too high for such people. As a holder as well I won't let my Bitcoins be wasted on such high network fees.

Newbies are also not aware that this kind of network fees hikes are temporary. I've seen many of fellows complaining about the uncertainty of the memepool, this is what likely we can expect on such events, More on it the over hyped ETF approval development, we can expect even worse situations in coming days so be prepared.

[serjent05]

First, as the title states clearly that Bitcoin network fees are not high but it is you as a holder who can't afford it,

In this statement, the term high is subjective.  If a person can't afford it, it simply means it is too high for them to pay.  This simply means the transaction fee is expensive.  There shouldn't be any argument on that, IMO.  Even Electrum give notification like the transaction fee is too high for the transacted amount.  Like sending a $50 worth of BTC with a transaction fee of $12, that really is insanely high in relation to the amount that is need to be sent.

the reality of things is that, most Bitcoin old term holder are not complaining because they already have experience of how the Bitcoin networks work per time, and if they want to make a transaction they rather just pay high fees and move on rather than paying low fees with long time of waiting because a lot of transaction volumes that have higher fees than yours are already broadcast into the network so it takes long time before getting your transaction confirm.

Old-term holders have enough profit to ignore the transaction fee spike.  Imagine, getting profit 50x to 100x from their holdings, even I won't complain even if the tax bloated 100x from its normal transaction fee.

[mvdheuvel1983]

Assuming that I have a business and one of the methods of payment is through bitcoin, do you think that this your logic will be correct or it applies that in this case. Nobody wants to pay anything extra high fees after making a purchase. It makes no sense especially with high fees. And it has nothing to do with affordability or not. Did you know that this is one of the issues that critics points out when talk against bitcoin and it is call scalability.

[CryptopreneurBrainboss]

I hope that a long time from now, most newbies will stop making news from this kind of temporary network congestion, and start focusing more on how to contribute to making the Bitcoin network cleaner and globally adaptable to all, for me I don't see any negativity in bitcoin but rather a lot of opportunity to develop along with Bitcoin as an alternative among another alternatives.

Currently, the high fee is a negativity buddy but we know it'll be sorted out in the future and it's just a matter of time before that happens. Congestion of the blockchain has been a big issue and the OGs aren't complaining because they're already used to this issue happening many times and it's not because they don't think the fee is high. One of Bitcoin selling point was low transaction fees but that isn't the case so you don't expect people to just accept paying miners this outrageous fees we have to pay to get our transaction confirm faster.

If bitcoin was to be accepted globally by now don't you think the scalability problem will cause many discomfort among clients, consumers using the Bitcoin blockchain. Some transaction has stayed days and weeks without confirmation and it's very annoying because many use Bitcoin because of its reputation of fast transactions. And this congestion is obstructing many business from going on.

Buddy Bitcoin network fee are high, just because you can afford it doesn't make it not high, this is meant to be an industry for everyone and not only for the rich ones among us. We're already at a disadvantage to the elites with the banks, it won't be nice been at a disadvantage here as well when this is meant to be where we come for equality. Instead of denying the fact on ground, we should put heads together and come up with a solution that'll solve the scalability issues and one that can be widely accepted too by the community.

[bluebit25]

It's a problem for some parts of this market, but it's easy for new people looking at it to be intimidated by it, which forces them to learn more about it so they don't make mistakes.

We all understand that fees are not fixed, so every time there is an unusual increase in activity, the fee to cover transaction speed increases. I'm not sure how other people use it, but for me, Bitcoin fees under $10 are always ready to be paid without hesitation. If I understand correctly, the unit I want to mention will be the satoshi.

Maybe new people find it difficult to accept, but of course no one forces them to do it. The impulse will increase as they become more certain.

[mamesso]

After reaching an agreement for a transaction using Bitcoin, then you want to pay and see very high transaction fees, of course you will think twice about continuing the transaction. Logically, a very small number of people are willing to pay extra transaction fees above the average previously incurred for small transactions. The Bitcoin community is very aware that high transaction fees will not last long, they prefer to wait until the fees return to normal rather than being forced to pay when the fees are still high, especially when Bitcoin is sent in small amounts.

[Velemir Sava]

It's a problem for some parts of this market, but it's easy for new people looking at it to be intimidated by it, which forces them to learn more about it so they don't make mistakes.

We all understand that fees are not fixed, so every time there is an unusual increase in activity, the fee to cover transaction speed increases. I'm not sure how other people use it, but for me, Bitcoin fees under $10 are always ready to be paid without hesitation. If I understand correctly, the unit I want to mention will be the satoshi.

Maybe new people find it difficult to accept, but of course no one forces them to do it. The impulse will increase as they become more certain.

I get dizzy and shake my head when I see BTC Fees now... I think another solution is that we should always use a reputable and established broker when trading who also acts as a Counterparty for our trades. Yes. Maybe this is still normal but, for people it is difficult to accept the reality at this time as you said.

[pinggoki]

Not everyone is as rich and opulent as you OP so don't say stuff that are so out of touch, that TX fee of $15 could be 2 days worth of meal for someone so calm down with stupid hot takes you know. Maybe those people don't really mind that the transaction isn't prioritized so they don't pay a lot, that's one of the logical reason why they don't want to pay the high fees. I want you to stand on this statement when the tx fees are starting to climb much higher than what it currently is, also you're probably just saying this because you don't do transactions on a daily basis unlike other people that are doing daily transactions, it's going to hurt them money wise.

[Promocodeudo]

Let's not shy away from the truth, the network fee is high as it is, even our old folks here know that, them not saying it, does not mean that they are ok with it.
OP, do you know that despite how good a system is some events can bring discouragement, we should know that it is not everyone wants to hold, in this situation, people have decided to wait until the network fee is decreased before they can withdraw, that's to say that they are indirectly holding which might not be their initial plan, this might sound good for bitcoin itself because the situation might further its upsurge.
We have to face the matter at hand squarely which is the fee itself, and I think that we should improve beyond this, modalities should be worked out to curtail this in the future because I believe the system should do better than this to avoid unnecessary panic.

[lovesmayfamilis]

I would also clarify that the topic is to some extent geared towards beginners; people who have just come to Bitcoin will be intimidated by large commissions, simply because they have probably heard, or maybe observed, something different. Those who accidentally received Bitcoin will pay large commissions, and we do not know what could be different if we recall the recent case of a huge commission. But you shouldn’t divide people into those who can afford something or not; it was probably invented by Satoshi precisely as a means available to everyone, despite their financial ladder.

[Apocollapse]

I think another solution is that we should always use a reputable and established broker when trading who also acts as a Counterparty for our trades.

I'm pretty sure using a broker will make you spend more fee because they're not working for free. Why the current fee affect trading? there's no correlation because the fee in CEX is fixed and as long as you not send your coins, you will not pay huge fees. Of course I didn't mean to suggest using CEX to hold your coins, there has been a lot exchanges going bankrupt.

Not everyone is as rich and opulent as you OP

The truly rich person will don't have to wear a paid signature.

[Fiatless]

Please 🙏 the basis for this thread is not to create an argument rather but to trigger up discussions that can help our basic knowledge.
Also, I have tried to edit the title a bit to give it a better introduction to what the ops really covers, hope this works well for you guys.

We can claim that paying high fees is better than losing privacy especially if you can afford it. But these fees will make Bitcoin less competitive because even fiat transactions are now cheaper. But it is wonderful that you rephrased that topic to enable newbies to know that the high transaction fee is temporal and this topic can now foster discussions that will help expose newbies to alternatives. Lightning Network will be a good option to for those seeking low transactions option..

Are you trying to show off because you can afford the transaction fee? I can also afford it but honestly it's a waste of money,  there is nothing to be ashamed of if you decide to queue using small transaction fee or just abandon the transaction for now and try again another day.

The OP has debunked the insinuation that he is unconcerned with the high transaction fees because he is rich. He has also apologized for the misconception his topic has created.

[jrrsparkles]

Lightning Network will be a good option to for those seeking low transactions option..

LN will be a good choice for someone who makes small TX more often but it definitely not an option for someone who wants to move their funds from their wallet to an exchange just because the exchange supports LN deposits but what they don't know is how the LN wors and to create LN channel the funds require an on-chain TX which is same as paying the fee that need to be confirmed which is also misunderstood by many and need to be addressed.

[Gladitorcomeback]

First, as the title states clearly that Bitcoin network fees are not high but it is you as a holder who can't afford it, the reason being that many newbies and some few old members have mistaken this current network condition to mean a crisis, the reality of things is that, most Bitcoin old term holder are not complaining because they already have experience of how the Bitcoin networks work per time, and if they want to make a transaction they rather just pay high fees and move on rather than paying low fees with long time of waiting because a lot of transaction volumes that have higher fees than yours are already broadcast into the network so it takes long time before getting your transaction confirm.

We prefer Bitcoin over fiat because of many reasons like decentralization, low fee, available globally, sending and receiving without restrictions. Now one reason (low fee) is missed which is not good for Bitcoin. If I want to sell my 50$ btc which I hold in my wallet and I need urgent payment then There is two options. pay more than 10$ fee or wait until this problem solved. Now why I choose btc where i cannot fulfill my need properly. We love btc but that's not mean that we will support every limitations despite of thinking how to solve it

I hope that a long time from now, most newbies will stop making news from this kind of temporary network congestion, and start focusing more on how to contribute to making the Bitcoin network cleaner and globally adaptable to all, for me I don't see any negativity in bitcoin but rather a lot of opportunity to develop along with Bitcoin as an alternative among another alternatives.

How will people accept it if we want to convince other in current situation? We will told him that you have to pay 20$ fee for avery transaction, what do you think he will accept it? Any shop will be convinced to start accepting btc in current situation?

[RhianR]

Any shop will be convinced to start accepting btc in current situation?

Lightning Network isn't popular in that corner of the world. That's the problem of the shop.

[Odohu]

Exceptions aside, fees are indeed not above values seen in the past, but cost is probably best seen in comparison to the amount one wants to send. Clearly sending very small amounts of bitcoin, whilst within normal ranges for many to send, do encounter nowadays high fees compared to the base amount being sent. Fees on TXs that send higher amounts are relatively smaller compared to the base amount being sent, and thus are conceptually easier to digest.

This is balanced and a cogent summary of this discussion. While the whales do not blink an eye over the increase in Tx fees, little fries like majority of us are sweating already over the it. I took some time to monitor some wallets I was able to connect to some popular mixers to check the flow of transactions amidst this increase in fees, I notice that while transaction of lower amounts reduced, bigger amounts are being transacted unhindered.

So the crux of the matter is that majority of us are feeling the impact of the high fees because of the amount of Bitcoin we move, this being in line with what OP is saying. But then, nobody love spending too much, so the whales will still feel happy if the fees normalises. 

[ZAINmalik75]

You made me wonder if, in the past, such situations occurred or not. Because, to my knowledge, I did not know if there was any past event where congestion would have stayed for this long. I am aware of the last congestion, which was when the ordinal problem started, but at that time it remained there for a few days, and after that, things returned to normal. After that, we saw small congestions in comparison to this one, but they also vanished after some time.
But this time the congestion is staying for a longer period of time, which is making me and all of the newbies, even OGs, sick. But not those who have already set a lighting node. The lighting node is the best solution to all this, but setting it up is also an issue for newbies.

Most of the newbies don't want to pay a fee or are stuck due to the small UTXOs, and now they can't pay the fee. To pay the fee, they have to make a transaction, which costs more than the UTXO they have remained with. Old users are not talking about this issue, which is totally wrong. A bundle of topics opened since this congestion issue, and many old users replied to those topics. I think you missed them.

[Marvelman]

You made me wonder if, in the past, such situations occurred or not. Because, to my knowledge, I did not know if there was any past event where congestion would have stayed for this long.

I think this is neither the longest nor the worst Bitcoin mempool congestion. Check the historical charts, you will see that 2021 was much worse than what we have today.

[Saint-loup]

Hey newbies and OGs, just i quick reminder of the current condition of the Bitcoin network and what it is like with the hike in transaction fees and network congestion.
First, as the title states clearly that Bitcoin network fees are not high but it is you as a holder who can't afford it, the reason being that many newbies and some few old members have mistaken this current network condition to mean a crisis, the reality of things is that, most Bitcoin old term holder are not complaining because they already have experience of how the Bitcoin networks work per time, and if they want to make a transaction they rather just pay high fees and move on rather than paying low fees with long time of waiting because a lot of transaction volumes that have higher fees than yours are already broadcast into the network so it takes long time before getting your transaction confirm.
I hope that a long time from now, most newbies will stop making news from this kind of temporary network congestion, and start focusing more on how to contribute to making the Bitcoin network cleaner and globally adaptable to all, for me I don't see any negativity in bitcoin but rather a lot of opportunity to develop along with Bitcoin as an alternative among another alternatives.

That's a very provocative topic bro, if we are too poor to use Bitcoin, for what kind of people it's destined actually? I'm not aware Satoshi Nakamoto specified in his white paper it was designed for rich people only. In addition where have you seen that "Bitcoin old term holder" can afford to pay such high fees, you really think they are all rich people? It's easy to tell new users to "pay high fees and move on" but that overlooks the need for a necessary improvement of the network. Concerns about high fees shouldn't be downplayed but rather seen as opportunities for enhancement IMO.

[stompix]

First, as the title states clearly that Bitcoin network fees are not high but it is you as a holder who can't afford it,

You know why you don't have a Bugatti, right? It's not because it costs a few millions , it's your fault for not affording it!
This whole thing started wrong, the fees are not mandatory it's a pure auction, the higher bidder gets the spot, the one that has either 99.9% or 1% of that will not get anything, not mattering how much he needed to grab it.

I hope that a long time from now, most newbies will stop making news from this kind of temporary network congestion, and start focusing more on how to contribute to making the Bitcoin network cleaner and globally adaptable to all, .

Good for me that I'm not a newbie and I can complain!
You know , it's this attitude of pummeling everyone that dares to criticize something with the usual crap about doing something else that irks me the worse. So listen here, every single newbie or veteran has the right to say one big fuck you to the fees, it has the right to criticize this and nobody should force anyone to think only of the positives, this is how you end up with something useless, by not taking actual action to repair broken things.

I don't see any negativity in bitcoin but rather a lot of opportunity to develop along with Bitcoin as an alternative among another alternatives.

Really, this is weird
How is your coffee shop doing with all these fees?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5383852.msg59128185#msg59128185

With the decentralized nature of Bitcoin that have Thousands of Nigeria Citizens who have knowledge of blockchain and digital currencies and have adopted it, In December 2021 I launched a campaign among crypto friends to adopt Bitcoin as a mode of payment in our venture and outlets, on 31st of January I open a Coffee shop and the Capital City Abuja for Bitcoin and none Bitcoin customers. This is aimed at promoting Bitcoin adoption and, as a newbie member here, I wish to see your advice and suggestions.

I'm quite interested to hear how this is working out when a customer has to pay at least 2$ for buying a coffee in your shop!

And since you're not talking about it there are only two possibilities
- you've gone bankrupt and this shows how stupid this whole thing about shutting people off is
- it was all a BIG FAT L....

[Antotena]

Hey newbies and OGs, just i quick reminder of the current condition of the Bitcoin network and what it is like with the hike in transaction fees and network congestion.
First, as the title states clearly that Bitcoin network fees are not high but it is you as a holder who can't afford it, the reason being that many newbies and some few old members have mistaken this current network condition to mean a crisis, the reality of things is that, most Bitcoin old term holder are not complaining because they already have experience of how the Bitcoin networks work per time, and if they want to make a transaction they rather just pay high fees and move on rather than paying low fees with long time of waiting because a lot of transaction volumes that have higher fees than yours are already broadcast into the network so it takes long time before getting your transaction confirm.

Then I will assume that you have spent $50-$100 from when this post was made. Do you know how valuable the dollar currency is when converted to another currency? I bet you have enough but personally, this fees are high for common person and bitcoin is meant to serve everyone diligently. If traditional finances are so wicked and do request for high fees to make transactions, then bitcoin ought to have been smaller and reasonable for everyone but I guess the overloading volume is much more than expected from the design.

I hope that a long time from now, most newbies will stop making news from this kind of temporary network congestion, and start focusing more on how to contribute to making the Bitcoin network cleaner and globally adaptable to all, for me I don't see any negativity in bitcoin but rather a lot of opportunity to develop along with Bitcoin as an alternative among another alternatives.

It's not only the newbies that discuss the fees, it's the concern people among the community that discuss it. Paying high fees doesn't mean you are new, you can be old here and be having a ye challenge to pay $20 for a fee, the money that is enough to feed some people and be satisfied and this fees is not a one time. It's a continuous fees as long as you keep moving bitcoin from A -------->B.

[Marykeller]

OP, I want to bring into illustration, the high fees of bitcoin in today's world for you to understand how it feels for people who want to transact with it but can't due to the high gas fees.

Take for example, a product that was being sold for $1 before, and today you were asked to pay for the same product for $10. How will you feel about the price? Will you keep quiet about the price, not to complain about it even if you can afford the new price of the product?

OP, what I want you to have in mind is that every product has its worth price for people to charge for it(bitcoin gas fees I mean). You can give someone a high product price, thinking that they can afford it just because it has value and it is widely used.

As time goes on, People would begin to find other alternatives if the charged price increment continues and never decreases.

[macson]

snip
I hope that a long time from now, most newbies will stop making news from this kind of temporary network congestion, and start focusing more on how to contribute to making the Bitcoin network cleaner and globally adaptable to all, for me I don't see any negativity in bitcoin but rather a lot of opportunity to develop along with Bitcoin as an alternative among another alternatives.

the news about high bitcoin fees is actually not a bad thing imo, in fact, it is good news so that beginners have considerations before investing in bitcoin, i remember when i first bought bitcoin, even though the fees at that time were not too high, however, i was quite surprised that buying Bitcoin requires a fee, Beginners will definitely be well prepared if they know that Bitcoin fees are very fluctuating and can change at any time.  If you have been in Bitcoin for a long time, the current Bitcoin fee will definitely not change. bother you, but if you are still a beginner, you have to prepare yourself for all of that, as time goes by, bitcoin buyers have to be prepared for high bitcoin transaction costs, because when mass adoption occurs then bitcoin fees will not be much different from the current costs.

[Jon_Hodl]

While the on-chain fees are high and none of us like that, high fees are an incredibly important part of scaling bitcoin. Without the increase in fees, there isn't a way to tell how much demand there is to send bitcoin.

When people pay fees that are that high, it serves as the price signal to the market that there is demand for sending bitcoin. This provides the incentive for businesses to innovate and invest in alternative scaling technologies.

As much as I hate to say it, these ordinals and inscriptions clowns are actually saving a lot of pleb miners from capitulation. For any circular economy transactions, we should all be doing what we can to build local P2P lightning network while we wait for the on-chain fees to cool off. It sucks for now but it is a very necessary pain that needs to exist to properly scale bitcoin.

[Orpichukwu]

If a $10 fee for a Bitcoin transaction is considered affordable, then the network is not designed for the average person. It seems to be intended only for the wealthy few, despite Bitcoin's promise of greater financial inclusivity.
 
No doubt that's also how people believe that the fee should be more than what we are seeing currently for maximum security, but for those of us who have not been able to even foot the $1 fee when ever we see it, $10–$30 is a lot to consider as few for someone who has less than a thousand as a holding; indeed, it's really few of us that can't afford the fee, but deep now many will also agree that the fee is not cheap; it might be for you, but it's expensive.

[GeorgeJohn]

It's laughable that you are saying that bitcoin network the fees is not high for now,a process whereby you send ten thousand worth of bitcoin to a wallet or to an exchange and it take less than low fee to get confirmed, but now it take approximately one thousand worth of bitcoin to get confirmed of ten worth of bitcoin then you are saying its not high, many bitcoiners who is in the signature campaigns have been changing their wallet of custodial wallet to exchange wallet because of the fees of bitcoin, because transferring your bitcoin from your custodial wallet to exchange wallet it will consume more of BTC that's while many people is changing with exchange wallet.

[Victorik]

No one enjoys paying a high transaction fees, it's not fun to just pay a high transaction fees. Most people do this because they don't have a choice and probably need the transaction confirm quickly.
So it's not about not been able to afford it really. I disagree with you

[Luffygroove]

Bitcoin offers the most convenient and cheapest means of sending money across borders

I kind of agree with this. Bitcoin started with perks for peer-to-peer and efficient transactions without middlemen. Yet, being the pioneer, its development might lag compared to newer projects with original developers. These newcomers can offer more advantages. Bitcoin, hailed as the King, stands irreplaceable. However, if Bitcoin can't keep up with fees and scalability, it might become a symbol rather than a practical asset. Imagine the epic scenario where Bitcoin regains efficiency and fast transactions, that would be a game-changer, bringing back its original appeal and solidifying its role as a powerhouse in the crypto world.

[Pandu Geddon]

However, if Bitcoin can't keep up with fees and scalability, it might become a symbol rather than a practical asset.

the current situation will not continue. High fees also occur on the Ethereum network. and that's what makes many users complain. but gradually things got better again. If I'm not mistaken, Bitcoin transactions usually fell some time ago. then climb back up.
However, there is also a bright side when transaction costs become expensive. there will be more people holding onto their Bitcoins rather than selling them at sky-high prices.
we should be patient with anyone waiting for a reduction in transaction costs.

[molsewid]

No one enjoys paying a high transaction fees, it's not fun to just pay a high transaction fees. Most people do this because they don't have a choice and probably need the transaction confirm quickly.
So it's not about not been able to afford it really. I disagree with you

I agree, been in this industry for years now and during this season the network fees get higher and the transaction time takes hrs before it will go to your wallet, I also do experienced receiving my btc before that took me days. But if you will compare the fee when sending money across the globe yes it is cheaper compared to traditional ones, but then not all will accept this kind of method.

[AakZaki]

I agree, been in this industry for years now and during this season the network fees get higher and the transaction time takes hrs before it will go to your wallet, I also do experienced receiving my btc before that took me days. But if you will compare the fee when sending money across the globe yes it is cheaper compared to traditional ones, but then not all will accept this kind of method.

the problem of quite expensive network fees and long time estimates means that small traders can only stay on their trading platforms, unable to make withdrawals because of the quite large fees for the Bitcoin network.
But if you don't fully use Bitcoin, the costs of other chain networks are very cheap and can be faster. This depends on whether you want to use the Bitcoin network or not, but for me, I not only use Bitcoin but there are other coins with cheaper networks that I can use.