Gambling with crypto because taxation makes no sense?

[TelolettOm]

Moreover, in many countries, filling out the forms to get taxed can be a nightmare. For winning 100$ for example, you will have to pay a big chunk of it to an accountant to find how it should be taxed. Bureaucracy is a whole other debacle in and of itself.

It cannot be denied that taxation is something that we often avoid, we don't like, and even makes us grumble because of the high taxes that we have to pay in some cases. Even now, on local exchanges, there is a direct tax deduction when trading there. so we can't avoid it. especially in gambling, if there is a tax deduction, of course this will also be a burden for users if the nominal amount is unusually large.

Gambling using crypto might be able to avoid taxation, but won't that also depend on the online gambling platform? Or will it also affect when a gambler withdraws their money to an exchange or when they make a withdrawal to their bank account? Whether we like it or not, if the government has implemented taxation on our income, there will be a thousand ways to get it from us. ha ha ha

[AmoreJaz]

My opinion may sound off to some people, but then, we all are entitled to our different opinions after all.

I honestly do not find anything special about gambling with crypto when it comes to taxation, the benefits I find with gambling with crypto is the easy and fast deposit and withdrawals, fast winning settlements and so on.

And this is because, when it comes to taxation, winning in crypto can still be taxed same way fiat is taxed, if it's not yet happening, that does not mean it will never happen, with regulation coming to cryptocurrencies in general, rest assured that soon, even winnings in crypto will be taxed.
And for some other countries, if crypto winning is not taxed, then the player will still have to pay it when he or she exchanges the crypto to fiat and withdraws it to his or her local bank account.

So honestly, I think the issue of taxing is not something we can completely run away from, most especially those who live in a much more developed countries where technology have improved so much, the sooner we have it at the back of our minds that crypto winnings will one day be taxed, and prepare ourselves for it, the better and easier it will be for us when it starts happening.

for now, i think a lot of crypto gamblers are enjoying the benefits of not getting taxed out of their games. most countries are still in grey area  when it comes to implementing their taxation protocols over crypto. this is why i truly believe that a lot of gamblers are still getting away from paying those taxes. it is true that we are heading to the direction of being under the eyes of the authorities but it would take time for them to even draft the actual regulations over crypto. this is why enjoy such benefits while they are not fully implementing such taxation laws in this market.

[STT]

Whats better policy for taxation is to tax companies who do employ accountants and run formal books.   The risk run with taxing a population with small amounts gambled or spent is they become criminalized by the paperwork and inability to file any forms on time or correctly.  It makes far more sense to have any national policy vs companies, again legally they will have staff to be aware of all the varying laws over time.   Personal tax was not common until the modern age, its only in the last century its now every person not the companies who are held responsible which is unfortunate and clumsy imo.

[doomloop]

This made me curious. Is there anybody here who actually pays taxes for his/her gambling wins whether from a crypto platform or not? While I'm aware that any form of income is subject to taxes in my country, I cannot remember of a single instance in which I paid for my gambling wins. I'm not sure how strict this kind of taxation is being implemented in other countries, but it isn't strictly done here.

Anyway, I guess crypto gambling isn't actually designed to shirk tax responsibilities. After all, most of these gambling platforms are duly registered and have KYC terms.

I have paid taxes indeed because no matter how much you win, at some point you have to exchange it for fiat and that's where you have to mention how you earned the money you are receiving. Yeah that said, when you are losing you at least don't have to explain it or mention it.

Well, I think that's the main attraction of bitcoin gambling first and cryptocurrency gambling later, which has been so important in the history of bitcoin and this forum, that people don't pay taxes for it.

True and agree 100%. Crypto casinos were popularized for 2 main reasons, one was transparency for provably fair games and second for the anonymity.

[Porfirii]

Mmmm I don't know in yours, but in my country you can detract all the loses of the year from the winnings when you gamble, so you only pay taxes on real profits. I agree that you have to know how to fill up the tax forms and update an excel every time you play so you keep perfectly your track, but left all this hassle, it is fair somehow.

I like the crypto + gambling combo not because of tax evasion but more because of privacy and, at last, because it is like gambling on steroids: you lost, but the cryptos went up and you end up winning, or viceversa, which is much more exciting IMO.

[darkangel11]

We cannot possibly conclude that moving countries to avoid taxes, but crypto gambling is the solution to all taxation problems, licensed crypto gambling also has no problems with taxation so we need to avoid fiat gambling because they determine too high a tax on every winning bet. Actually I don't have a problem with taxation as long as they don't determine the high percentage that must be paid to the government, but 30% to pay taxes is unreasonable and any casino that deducts high taxes should be abandoned, they should switch to cryptocurrency gambling that does not limit high taxes from every bet.

So you have no problem with taxation, but start having a problem when it's 30% or more? You should check the income tax by country and you'll find that many countries exceed that level.
In fact most of Europe is above 30% when you reach a certain income threshold and in most of these countries cryptocurrencies are nor exempt from taxation.
Germany is one of the few countries where you can avoid paying tax on your cryptos, but I'm not sure if gambling profits fall into this category. You'd have to hide that profits come from gambling and report your cryptocurrencies like they were an investment.

[letteredhub]

My opinion may sound off to some people, but then, we all are entitled to our different opinions after all.

I honestly do not find anything special about gambling with crypto when it comes to taxation, the benefits I find with gambling with crypto is the easy and fast deposit and withdrawals, fast winning settlements and so on.

And this is because, when it comes to taxation, winning in crypto can still be taxed same way fiat is taxed, if it's not yet happening, that does not mean it will never happen, with regulation coming to cryptocurrencies in general, rest assured that soon, even winnings in crypto will be taxed.
And for some other countries, if crypto winning is not taxed, then the player will still have to pay it when he or she exchanges the crypto to fiat and withdraws it to his or her local bank account.

So honestly, I think the issue of taxing is not something we can completely run away from, most especially those who live in a much more developed countries where technology have improved so much, the sooner we have it at the back of our minds that crypto winnings will one day be taxed, and prepare ourselves for it, the better and easier it will be for us when it starts happening.

for now, i think a lot of crypto gamblers are enjoying the benefits of not getting taxed out of their games. most countries are still in grey area  when it comes to implementing their taxation protocols over crypto. this is why i truly believe that a lot of gamblers are still getting away from paying those taxes. it is true that we are heading to the direction of being under the eyes of the authorities but it would take time for them to even draft the actual regulations over crypto. this is why enjoy such benefits while they are not fully implementing such taxation laws in this market.

Both the government and gambling company are living on us in our winnings and losses, like a parasite we are their host and the escape from taxation into crypto is definitely a temporary escape therefore we should enjoy it while it lasted. The government will find ways to penetrate, if they can do it with exchangers then it's all possible that in ways we never expects they will penetrate through get us taxed, and the gambling companies won't want to act deviant to that when the time arrives so they can have a smooth business environment in the jurisdiction.

[dothebeats]

Well in a way, gambling with cryptocurrencies kinda put you in a position wherein you are able to avoid taxation since it's still not clearly defined on how governments will tax proceeds in winnings through cryptocurrencies. I agree that it's kind of unfair that gambling winners still need to pay governments their 'share' of the pie due to legal reasons, but the money obviously came from the platform that also has to pay taxes, so it's just a chain reaction that we all are a part of.

Sooner or later, crypto gambling will have a more accurately-defined taxation laws. It's always just a matter of time for new things when it comes to law, and crypto gambling is no exception to that.

[cafter]

tax can be avoided in crypto casinos which are made for crypto gambling by winning their and keeping the winnings in crypto but while withdrawing we need to pay tax on crypto gains,
 But i think it will be hard to avoid tax deduction sites which just allow deposits from crypto and play on their platform with fiat.
Not every site deduct taxes we can withdraw what we have won on their sites without giving anything to site or government, legally we need to pay taxes if the winning amount is taxable.

[bitbollo]

in my country (Italy) winnings are taxed "at source" by the bookmaker but in the case of substantial winnings they must be declared and an additional tax must be paid! 

The most disturbing thing is that here we have a monopoly that restricts the number of operators and requires everyone to adapt.
What happened? It's simple: we have fewer events to play, less "liquid" markets (since only Italians can play) and lower odds than those found online (!) .... pretty clear that with an arbitrage system they are earning much much more % respect other countries...
And Yes, if you win from a crypto casino (that it's something borderline...) you need to declare the amount you win (and you can also risk a fine for playing there...)

This sector is obviously seen negatively by public opinion.
But imposing this whole series of conditions makes us understand how bad this system really is

[Z390]

The gambling sites are supposed to be the one paying taxes, if you are a gambler in any country that you are been taxed for winning I am so sorry for this is inhuman behaviour from the government,  I would rather not gamble at all, because it's like gambling for the government, I am not a enemy of the government but I am never satisfied with their ways of leading the people, such thing isn't happening in my own country but it's sad that many people are facing this in some part of the world.

In my own country there is no form of taxes on gambling, both online and offline, but I am pretty sure that many gambling companies are paying good amount of money to the government, I am sure that they are the only ones paying taxes, not the gamblers themselves. 

Taxation makes no sense, it really shows that the government are living base on the peoples money and they don't care if the world knows about this, because of this taxation nonsense that's why I decide to never travel to some foreign countries where taxes is a most from those who are still struggling, it's killing.

[davis196]

I can't discuss the tax systems of other countries, because I'm not 100% familiar with them.
The tax system in my country is as simple as it gets. There's a 15% gambling revenue tax(which all casinos have to pay) and the gamblers should pay 10% income tax for their winnings. It's not that complicated and it doesn't require an accountant to be hired to do your papers.
But yes, all people hate to pay taxes and the crypto gambling industry was created with the initial purpose of being free from taxes(because crypto wasn't well regulated 10 years ago). Nowadays, crypto gambling is as regulated as fiat gambling(well, most of the crypto casinos) and I can't find any major benefits of gambling on a crypto casino instead of a fiat casino.

[EarnOnVictor]

Taxation is a topic that often comes up when it comes to someone winning anything in gambling.
The so called "nationally licensed" providers will usually automatically get a cut from anyone's winnings whenever they win anything.

And let's be realistic, we all know the drill with gambling. Most gamblers are not in the green and those that persist do it for the thrill of it, not to earn from it. So when you win, it's usually from your own bank. But whenever someone is lucky enough to catch a break, governments will slip in and take their share. Regardless if you've lost more than you've earned in total for instance. The irony on this matter is also that gambling wins are used to substitute how many taxes these state "licensed" casinos have to pay. So the whole subject of gambling taxation is unfairly structured towards the player.

Moreover, in many countries, filling out the forms to get taxed can be a nightmare. For winning 100$ for example, you will have to pay a big chunk of it to an accountant to find how it should be taxed. Bureaucracy is a whole other debacle in and of itself.

I'd imagine that many people actually chose to gamble with crypto to avoid these restrictions and bureaucratic procedures. It really makes no sense to go through all these troubles to tax a small winning amount. Still if someone happened to win a large amount on a small bet by chance, I'd imagine some people would want to tax it so they can spend it in the real economy as fast as possible.

It's good to pay your taxes if you are a good citizen and you see how your government is utilizing the tax correctly. But it's annoying if the government appears to be cheaty, where they would only be concerned with the winning of the players and turn a blind eye to the losses. Well, tax laws vary per country, but the ones I've read don't give room for the government to cheat their citizens.

In gambling, all the laws I've read were clear and most of them have the clause that you only have to pay tax on the summation of the (gross profits - gross losses = $), not otherwise. So I don't see cheating here, for example, if you have had an aggregate loss of $5000 in 6 months in 100 bets and you just won a bet of $5000 in a day, you are still paying your government nothing $(5000-5000) = $0 tax. This is fair enough to me unless the person is looking for an ingenuine excuse not to pay the tax.

It even got better in my country as gambling earnings are considered non-taxable income for the bettors, and the government earns gambling tax from the income generated by the gambling house. The exemption is when the gambled money is higher than 150,000,000 of the currency which is a huge money that you rarely see people gamble with. So, anyone can see why the government at most times do not pay attention when the house cheats their customers as that would amount to more money for them...lol

[Ever-young]

Taxation is a topic that often comes up when it comes to someone winning anything in gambling.
The so called "nationally licensed" providers will usually automatically get a cut from anyone's winnings whenever they win anything.

And let's be realistic, we all know the drill with gambling. Most gamblers are not in the green and those that persist do it for the thrill of it, not to earn from it. So when you win, it's usually from your own bank. But whenever someone is lucky enough to catch a break, governments will slip in and take their share. Regardless if you've lost more than you've earned in total for instance. The irony on this matter is also that gambling wins are used to substitute how many taxes these state "licensed" casinos have to pay. So the whole subject of gambling taxation is unfairly structured towards the player.

Moreover, in many countries, filling out the forms to get taxed can be a nightmare. For winning 100$ for example, you will have to pay a big chunk of it to an accountant to find how it should be taxed. Bureaucracy is a whole other debacle in and of itself.

I'd imagine that many people actually chose to gamble with crypto to avoid these restrictions and bureaucratic procedures. It really makes no sense to go through all these troubles to tax a small winning amount. Still if someone happened to win a large amount on a small bet by chance, I'd imagine some people would want to tax it so they can spend it in the real economy as fast as possible.

Well I wouldn't know how that feels like, I can only imagine, because in my country, government pay less attention to taxing gamblers and casinos, so it doesn't really have that much of an effect on us the gamblers. But if there's one thing I know, it's the fact that government has this special satisfaction they derive in messing with their citizens, whether in the tax sector or other sectors. It has always been their thing.

For countries that implements such taxes on gamblers, then year, crypto casinos are simply the best option, because you don't see the government coming there to tell you what to do with your money or take some part of it. The losses alone is enough to make someone go crazy, and it's only unfair that when you manage to make a win, you have to cut a chunk of the money and give it to the government for tax. That's insane.

[ethereumhunter]

tax can be avoided in crypto casinos which are made for crypto gambling by winning their and keeping the winnings in crypto but while withdrawing we need to pay tax on crypto gains,
 But i think it will be hard to avoid tax deduction sites which just allow deposits from crypto and play on their platform with fiat.
Not every site deduct taxes we can withdraw what we have won on their sites without giving anything to site or government, legally we need to pay taxes if the winning amount is taxable.

It will depend on each country because there are countries that don't mind and don't ask for taxes from crypto users, especially if they can win from gambling at crypto casinos. But I don't know what the regulations are in countries that allow crypto to be used for betting. There may be taxes they have to pay because regulators monitor all the activities of their citizens. Regulators or the government can easily track the use of our money and they can also ask us to pay taxes on the gambling we do. The government can also find out if we can win from casinos, and they may ask for additional tax money than before.

[fullhdpixel]

Whats better policy for taxation is to tax companies who do employ accountants and run formal books.   The risk run with taxing a population with small amounts gambled or spent is they become criminalized by the paperwork and inability to file any forms on time or correctly.  It makes far more sense to have any national policy vs companies, again legally they will have staff to be aware of all the varying laws over time.   Personal tax was not common until the modern age, its only in the last century its now every person not the companies who are held responsible which is unfortunate and clumsy imo.

There are countries where laws are soft towards the casino and most of the casinos move their operations there to save taxes. Similarly, the Curacao license got so popular because it literally allows the casino to do whatever they want. As for the taxes on the gambler, I think it depends on the country you live in.

If the taxes on gambling are too high, which doesn't make sense, then yeah you can gamble anonymously and at least avoid paying taxes on money you are losing xd.

[coupable]

You might be surprised if I told you that in most, if not all, cases, the winner does not have the ability to use those profits before being subject to tax.  Currently, most of the companies controlling the market are active outside the framework of the laws regulating the sector.  The relationship of trust alone is what guarantees the exchange process between the two parties. The state either considers the profit illegal and confiscates the entire amount, or considers it legal and takes a quarter of it as a tax.  This depends on how strong your arguments are to prove profit.

I don't know regards crypto casinos, but I see this happening at the national lottery prize and I think the lottery should be forbidden from announcing a prize that doesn't correspond to the final liquid prize, once all the taxes are deducted from the total sum of money. However, since it's the government which is behind it, they are totally allowed to lie and deceive, as they wish. Anyway, it's really a shame that it works like this, even more because the taxes aren't low. They stay around 30% of the prize, besides some extra taxes which are also deducted on the process.

I agree with you that these are unfair procedures against those who will win, but at the same time I rule out the hypothesis of deception when one of the state institutions is the one running the competition because it employs legal representatives specialized in this type of procedure to undertake the monitoring and verification process during the competition and during the distribution of prizes.
However, when the winner is participating in a competition run by a platform or company outside the country (usually online), the receipt of the tax will inevitably pass through the official channels of the state, and therefore he will be required to prove its source, which will be known to the authority on the basis of which the value of the tax will be determined and deducted.

[aioc]

I'd imagine that many people actually chose to gamble with crypto to avoid these restrictions and bureaucratic procedures. It really makes no sense to go through all these troubles to tax a small winning amount. Still if someone happened to win a large amount on a small bet by chance, I'd imagine some people would want to tax it so they can spend it in the real economy as fast as possible.

Partly true but it's more on convenience, because of the popularity of online casinos and the use of Cryptocurrency, taxation is easy offline because your winning before you receive it is already deducted by taxes but when it comes online things are complicated, but for me, I am not playing online with Cryptocurrency because I avoid getting taxed it's just that I'm more at ease playing online in the convenience of my house than going out to play on offline casinos.

[Webetcoins]

tax can be avoided in crypto casinos which are made for crypto gambling by winning their and keeping the winnings in crypto but while withdrawing we need to pay tax on crypto gains,
 But i think it will be hard to avoid tax deduction sites which just allow deposits from crypto and play on their platform with fiat.
Not every site deduct taxes we can withdraw what we have won on their sites without giving anything to site or government, legally we need to pay taxes if the winning amount is taxable.

There is no way one can avoid paying taxes at all if they are living in a country that is pretty strict with these things because even if you manage to pay no taxes after winning in a cryptocurrency gambling platform, you will eventually have to cash those cryptocurrencies out and when you do that, you have no other choice than receiving the money either in your bank account or any other micropayment system and both of these are completely regulated and accessible by tax authorities.

So, when you receive a certain amount in your account, they would know about it and you will be asked to pay your taxes or in some cases, they might even deduct it from your account balance in case you have agreed with their terms and conditions and there might be a term regarding this as well.

[Negotiation]

Most gamblers don't like to pay taxes when it comes to gambling, so gambling on crypto gives them more benefits. There is no government control in crypto everyone can bet independently online. No one will get the information easily for online gambling. There is no provision of taxation through these online gambling. So whatever amount of money one wins from this gambling he can withdraw it without paying any tax to the government. This massive and uncontrolled flow of money from one country to another through online gambling. The type of gambling has changed with the times. Therefore various forms of online gambling are beyond the control of the law. Off-line gambling is taxed by the government as it is covered by government laws.