Central Banks keeping secret about CBDC blockchains

[franky1]

CBDCs are not cryptos. It's a digital version of fiat. It's pretty much similar to the online banking transfer things that we all do. I am not sure which Blockchain you are referring to. There's no Blockchain behind CBDCs.

Also, even if there's a Blockchain, the central banks will never tell you about this. That's how a centralized system should work. You just enjoy the result.

based on many similar design CBDC whitepapers which are public

there is a transaction chain. which also uses previous txid hashed with current state txid to create a txhashchain to confirm all parties have the same tx history and agree to the current state.. its not like current blockchains that contain thousands of transactions per block its a multisig tx chain of like ~12 parties signing one master tx the current state of their reserves(1 central bank+11 payment services) spending the previous state

as a subnetwork
the payment services use current state of central network to then author their own multisig(channels) between each other on the sub network. and then have micro sub channels below that for each payment services customers. and payments are routed around the channels

each customer can have 3 different levels of 'channel'(account) based on capacity limit of channel.. the lowest is like minimum wage monthly salary allowing even smaller payments at zero KYC, the next is mid range spending of mid amount for simple kyc and then large capacity requiring full KYC

its the payment services that keep the customers data and supply it on court ordered request or if payments contain suspicion flags.

[DrBeer]

CBDCs are not cryptos. It's a digital version of fiat. It's pretty much similar to the online banking transfer things that we all do. I am not sure which Blockchain you are referring to. There's no Blockchain behind CBDCs.

Also, even if there's a Blockchain, the central banks will never tell you about this. That's how a centralized system should work. You just enjoy the result.

CBDC "under the hood" has just a blockchain, but... how can I put it... quite a centralized blockchain. It sounds not very expected, of course, but you understand perfectly well that the state is power, and CENTRALIZED power. And the finances of this power cannot be decentralized. How can you imagine a state with an unmanaged financial system?!
That's why I call CBDC - "the creepy brother of cryptocurrency", and its goal is the same - to completely replace uncontrolled (or inconveniently controlled) mechanisms of money movement

[ZAINmalik75]

You are being extra skeptical here, because I don't think if there is anything fishing in CBDC and Central Banks are hiding it because it's just your fiat money in digital form but as far as I remember there was a CBDC from Argentina maybe, where they made the code public and one of the freelancing developers found out a mistake which was appreciated by everyone. It indicates that yeah CBDC can not be error-free as you said human made it and human makes mistakes too.

So, mistakes can occur in CBDC systems but the level of risk is not that high that we start to doubt CBDC on the basis of our skepticism.
It is better to have some proof on our hands if you really want to claim that Central banks are keeping something hidden on CBDC from us. All I know is that CBDC is a central platform where we don't own our money, it will be in the control of CBDC.

[DVlog]

There is plenty of content on the internet about CBDC which various officials release so it is no secret. If you know how to use mobile banking or any online payment gateway, you are ready to use a CBDC. They have similar usability and infrastructure, the only difference is that they are created and governed by a government whereas the previous one was through a company. CBDC is worse than mobile banking companies because the government can misuse their user data in such a cruel way that it can affect society very badly.

[franky1]

There is plenty of content on the internet about CBDC which various officials release so it is no secret. If you know how to use mobile banking or any online payment gateway, you are ready to use a CBDC. They have similar usability and infrastructure, the only difference is that they are created and governed by a government whereas the previous one was through a company. CBDC is worse than mobile banking companies because the government can misuse their user data in such a cruel way that it can affect society very badly.

most CBDC are a hybrid 2 network system the mainnet for the central-commercial bank of reserves and issuance creation.. and subnetwork the individual banks/services retain data on and audit the customers and only report under conditions to the central authority. and vice versa

the ISO standard of curent electronic fiat payments is not the same as the multisig hop reserve sharing tech a CDBC routed payment uses
there is no PoW blockchain. the mainnet is more of a PoS system of one master multisig thats spendable state updates and has a hash tree(chain) of previous states to ensure all central-commercial parties retain the same mainnet history log of th main reserve allocations

[DVlog]

There is plenty of content on the internet about CBDC which various officials release so it is no secret. If you know how to use mobile banking or any online payment gateway, you are ready to use a CBDC. They have similar usability and infrastructure, the only difference is that they are created and governed by a government whereas the previous one was through a company. CBDC is worse than mobile banking companies because the government can misuse their user data in such a cruel way that it can affect society very badly.

most CBDC are a hybrid 2 network system the mainnet for the central-commercial bank of reserves and issuance creation.. and subnetwork the individual banks/services retain data on and audit the customers and only report under conditions to the central authority. and vice versa

the ISO standard of curent electronic fiat payments is not the same as the multisig hop reserve sharing tech a CDBC routed payment uses
there is no PoW blockchain. the mainnet is more of a PoS system of one master multisig thats spendable state updates and has a hash tree(chain) of previous states to ensure all central-commercial parties retain the same mainnet history log of th main reserve allocations

So they have different infrastructure, but they have similar usability right? Like user will have to create an account through his NID card or government issued card number through an application. Is there any data about this from any pilot program of CBDC? Another thing that came to mind is that master multisig is the main controller of the network. I mean that is he the one who will be responsible for issuing more currencies freezing any address etc? I can see i don't have much knowledge about it; I need to do some research on it.

[franky1]

There is plenty of content on the internet about CBDC which various officials release so it is no secret. If you know how to use mobile banking or any online payment gateway, you are ready to use a CBDC. They have similar usability and infrastructure, the only difference is that they are created and governed by a government whereas the previous one was through a company. CBDC is worse than mobile banking companies because the government can misuse their user data in such a cruel way that it can affect society very badly.

most CBDC are a hybrid 2 network system the mainnet for the central-commercial bank of reserves and issuance creation.. and subnetwork the individual banks/services retain data on and audit the customers and only report under conditions to the central authority. and vice versa

the ISO standard of curent electronic fiat payments is not the same as the multisig hop reserve sharing tech a CDBC routed payment uses
there is no PoW blockchain. the mainnet is more of a PoS system of one master multisig thats spendable state updates and has a hash tree(chain) of previous states to ensure all central-commercial parties retain the same mainnet history log of th main reserve allocations

So they have different infrastructure, but they have similar usability right? Like user will have to create an account through his NID card or government issued card number through an application. Is there any data about this from any pilot program of CBDC?

i already gave you a link

They keep it secret

there is no secret.. there are many whitepapers available... even the chinese e-yuan has white papers and such
http://www.pbc.gov.cn/en/3688110/3688172/4157443/4293696/2021071614584691871.pdf

heres one example exert from the link

3.4.1 there are different types of wallets, depending on the strength of customer
personal information identification.
Authorized operators assign different types of digital wallets to customers based on
the strength of their personal information identification, and set per-transaction and
daily limits as well as maximum balance according to the strength of real-name
information. The least-privileged wallets can be opened without providing identities
to reflect the principle of anonymity. Users can open least-privileged anonymous
wallets by default and upgrade them to higher-level real-name ones as needed.

3.4.2 There are personal and corporate wallets, depending on the type of holder.
Natural persons and self-employed individuals can open individual wallets, on which
classification of transaction and balance limits are placed according to the strength of
customer personal information identification; legal persons and unincorporated
institutions can open corporate wallets. Transaction and balance limits are determined
depending on whether the wallet is opened remotely. The functions of wallets can be
customized to suit the needs of users

anyone can without ID open a basic channel/account. but the capacity of the channel/account is low. you cant spend more then a minimum wage month salary or receive more then that in total

if you want to send and receive amounts that would trigger tax questions and possible fraud/AML thresholds amounts. then you would upgrade to next level accounts which do require ID

Another thing that came to mind is that master multisig is the main controller of the network. I mean that is he the one who will be responsible for issuing more currencies freezing any address etc? I can see i don't have much knowledge about it; I need to do some research on it.

its a 2 network system mainnet-subnetwork
the mainnet(wholesale) is the central bank-commercial bank multisig of reserves and currency issuance
the subnetwork(retail) is where the commercial banks store tx history of their customers and share on legal demand

2.1
Fourth, as retail CBDC, e-CNY mainly serves domestic retail payment demands.
Categorized by user and purpose, there are two kinds of CBDC, wholesale and retail.
wholesale CBDC is mainly issued to institutions such as commercial banks and
mostly serve large-value settlement. Retail CBDC is issued to the public for daily
transactions. Major countries and economies vary in their priorities of developing
CBDC, with some focusing on wholesale transactions and some dedicated to
improving the efficiency of the retail system. E-CNY is a retail CBDC issued to the
public. With a modern domestic payment system in China, the issuance of e-CNY will
fully meet the public’s daily payment needs, further improve the efficiency of the
retail payment system and reduce the cost of retail payment.

Fifth, in the future digital retail payment system, e-CNY and funds in the
electronic account of authorized operators are inter-operable, and both
constitute cash in circulation. Commercial banks and licensed non-bank payment
institutions that meet compliance requirements (including anti-money laundering and
countering terrorist financing requirements) and regulatory requirements regarding
risk management on a comprehensive and on-going basis may participate in the
e-CNY payment system as per recognition and support of the central bank. They can
also fully tap existing payment and other infrastructures while providing digital retail
payment services for customers

if a commercial service sees a customer do something suspicious it gives basic data to the central authority about the transaction and if needed the central authority is suppose to seek court order to ask for all data related to that transaction and customer, including history and any data available about that user

[Sarah Azhari]

There is plenty of content on the internet about CBDC which various officials release so it is no secret. If you know how to use mobile banking or any online payment gateway, you are ready to use a CBDC. They have similar usability and infrastructure, the only difference is that they are created and governed by a government whereas the previous one was through a company. CBDC is worse than mobile banking companies because the government can misuse their user data in such a cruel way that it can affect society very badly.

I think it's just a diversionary issue to the people if the goverment is very welcome to crypto. They try to attract people if CDBC is the same as crypto they own. But, the people now is very smart, they know how the real crypto works today. they might like CDBC created by government because forced to do so. The people must have to download and use the application like a bank account and make all payments using the CDBC they created. But, still, if people know how the crypto works, they don't hold it, they just use it once through to to avoid sanctions

[wxa7115]

There is no secret about CBDCs, it is fiat. If you know how to use fiat already online, CBDCs is of no use to that kind of people. The government are only wasting money on CBDCs because they are not needed. I do not know if it is to trick people to believe that they are cryptocurrencies, but CBDCs are not cryptocurrencies.

That is their goal for sure, for what I can tell, in general people have no idea how their money works, and there is not a small number that still believe their fiat currencies are backed by gold or other assets, so when that level of ignorance is so widespread I cannot blame governments for trying to trick people into using their CBDCs.

However their problem are people like us, which know exactly what is going on and that will not get anywhere near those CBDCs and we will keep holding our bitcoin instead.

[bluebit25]

(...)Something doesn't make sense here.

So are they harmful to the economy?

Fighting against each other and creating new things is seen as an alternative, but that in fact creates new problems.

I don't know what the OP's prejudice is against CBDC, but it's clearly still causing a lot of controversy, and I'm only neutral when I know the solution and the risks. Because of this market, we all want decentralization and freedom from constraints, but in reality, it has not happened, and getting rid of government restrictions on this market is always a problem for supporters. Blockchain households are always distrustful of the government's economic operations.

[kingvirtus09]

They keep it secret but they know and i know and all of you know If they bring in new blockchain then can we be sure of it's scalebility ? Safety? And all the other factors.
They just gamble and try out ?
They should be smart and educated enough to know that If bring some thing into CBDC -s then it can't be like it was covid19 when goverments all over the world just gambled with people healt.
Imagine If the non tested CBDC will fail something happens and all your wealth is gone.
Goverments and bankers not gods they are just humans like everybody else and nobody not perfect so we should use our own heads to think aswell not just trust blindly.
They better be sure that those CBDC not be like they the covid19 was when it was just mess.
Something doesn't make sense here.

You know, CBDC cannot guarantee that they will also get the same level of scalability and safety as current blockchain solutions. First of all, it is still under government regulation.

Therefore, I don't trust the CBDC because it is also fiat, and those behind it are also manipulators in the crypto space who are other officials who want to control Bitcoin or cryptocurrency. So there's no secret there, really.

[Kakmakr]

One thing we know is that Central Bank Digital Currencies are controlled by Central Banks, so it is not any different than Fiat currencies. (It is actually just the digital version of Fiat currencies)

Anything that are controlled by a central authority can be manipulated or misused, so the process of the printing of toilet paper Fiat, will just be moved to the manipulation of the supply of digital tokens on this technology. 

[yhiaali3]

I don't know if there is a secret about CBDC, but in my opinion, even if there is no secret, CBDC is a failure even before it starts.

It is just worthless digital garbage like paper money, but it is much worse because paper money at least has a physical presence on Earth, but these are only numbers in bank accounts that can be erased with the push of a button, or frozen and deleted from your balance.

This centralized money is not safe at all, and governments know this but want to create it against decentralized cryptocurrencies that are outside the government's control.

[franky1]

for months now, the US has already started its CBDC for its wholesale (central bank-commercial bank) first phase.. its called FedNow
most of the aims of CBDC is not to kill the customer.. but to eventually remove the need for visa/mastercard

right now the FedNow system is not issuing new currency. its just using the tech to do reserve swaps of institutions current fiat digital dollar(bank account balance)

right now at first phase it has sped up the ACH timescales of wire transfer where its no longer x business days with no transfers at weekends/evenings. to now being in seconds 24/7(for banks using FedNow)

if visa/mastercard want to stay in business at the next phase, they will need to join the new era of digital wallets and hardware wallets using priv-public keys to sing multisigs...  instead of their current plastic card technology using lengthy card numbers and account numbers and pins

[avikz]

CBDCs are not cryptos. It's a digital version of fiat. It's pretty much similar to the online banking transfer things that we all do. I am not sure which Blockchain you are referring to. There's no Blockchain behind CBDCs.

Also, even if there's a Blockchain, the central banks will never tell you about this. That's how a centralized system should work. You just enjoy the result.

CBDC "under the hood" has just a blockchain, but... how can I put it... quite a centralized blockchain. It sounds not very expected, of course, but you understand perfectly well that the state is power, and CENTRALIZED power. And the finances of this power cannot be decentralized. How can you imagine a state with an unmanaged financial system?!
That's why I call CBDC - "the creepy brother of cryptocurrency", and its goal is the same - to completely replace uncontrolled (or inconveniently controlled) mechanisms of money movement

Not really! Not every CBDC has a Blockchain working in the background. Digital money transfer is also possible without a Blockchain system. Probably some countries have implemented Blockchain, but that's not a requirement.

But it depends on how you look at the backend. Every transactions need to be linked, but there's way to do it. Please study the structure of UPI from India. Blockchain is not required in CBDC. Countries can use it at their own interest but not a requirement.

[DrBeer]

You are being extra skeptical here, because I don't think if there is anything fishing in CBDC and Central Banks are hiding it because it's just your fiat money in digital form but as far as I remember there was a CBDC from Argentina maybe, where they made the code public and one of the freelancing developers found out a mistake which was appreciated by everyone. It indicates that yeah CBDC can not be error-free as you said human made it and human makes mistakes too.

So, mistakes can occur in CBDC systems but the level of risk is not that high that we start to doubt CBDC on the basis of our skepticism.
It is better to have some proof on our hands if you really want to claim that Central banks are keeping something hidden on CBDC from us. All I know is that CBDC is a central platform where we don't own our money, it will be in the control of CBDC.

The problem is not errors, although their presence does not bring us joy
The problem is a change in the paradigm of money as such. More precisely, when under a thick layer of beautiful solutions, inside of which lie things that are actually key for the “owners” of the CBDC project, i.e. STATES. And which, in fact, deprive us of the right to fully manage our money. True, no one advertises these solutions, such as “the advantages of high-tech CBDC”, they are silent about them, and I’m not sure that they will ever be publicly announced... But we will observe “amazing cases” with someone’s money.
Although there is a plus here This will more strongly encourage people to massively use UNCONTROLLED cryptocurrency, without interacting with the “digital state fiat CBDC”

[kingvirtus09]

Cbdc is not a secret to what is happening now over time. As far as I know, it seems to be getting even more exposure in the field of cryptocurrency. And those who have deep knowledge in the field of cryptocurrency, including myself, know that Cbdc for me is not good.

What they are doing is just hypocrisy, pretending to be volatile assets, but they are not really because it is obvious that they are controlled by government regulation in the reality of what is happening now.

[franky1]

Cbdc is not a secret to what is happening now over time. As far as I know, it seems to be getting even more exposure in the field of cryptocurrency. And those who have deep knowledge in the field of cryptocurrency, including myself, know that Cbdc for me is not good.

What they are doing is just hypocrisy, pretending to be volatile assets, but they are not really because it is obvious that they are controlled by government regulation in the reality of what is happening now.

CBDC is not trying to be a volatile asset.. its trying to be a more streamlined and secure wire transfer payment system to cut out the middlemen like visa/mastercard. whereby instead of only offering wire transfers that take 3-5 business days to settle they want wire transfers to settle in 1 second

its an idea to replace "account card number" with a short ID of a public key using a private key instead of a pin number home address and CVV number

[jaberwock]

There is no secret about CBDCs, it is fiat. If you know how to use fiat already online, CBDCs is of no use to that kind of people. The government are only wasting money on CBDCs because they are not needed. I do not know if it is to trick people to believe that they are cryptocurrencies, but CBDCs are not cryptocurrencies.

I understand what the @OP mean is that ; the people behind it has a hidden agenda. CBDCs are still different from an online fiat, and they are actually like a cryptocurrency who also has a blockchain. For those who are a fan of fiat money and is into something new, well they might also try these CBDCs. Don't worry about the government if they are only wasting money on a project like this, because it wasn't their money that they used anyway but it was ours, from the tax that we pay, although indeed that it's better if they use it on something much better. We don't need another online currency or payment method, as we already have lots of them.

[darewaller]

I understand that it may not look all that convincing for people to not see any blockchain developments, but that doesn't mean it's a secret, it is just not promoted all around. I believe that if someone wanted to see, they could look for it and search for it or even ask for it and get it, whereas we are talking about something they will not like get ads on tv and promote everywhere how amazing their blockchain is, not at development stage at least. When it's done and they want people to use it then I would understand it, but that doesn't mean that they are not working on it or keeping it a secret, they just don't care if you know or not.

To keep it a secret they must be hiding something and I really do not think that they are hiding anything at all, I think they are just doing it for doing its sake, and ignoring everyone in the world. That's fine, we do not really need to have the full information, that's not really an important situation for any of us.