Eligius pool is back under the new name Ocean

[HmmMAA]

I also understand it's perfectly possible for regulators to impose these laws on every node, not only miners' node, something like "Anyone running a BTC node must blacklist the following addresses".

I could be wrong, but i would assume something like that would be a lot more difficult.

There's no need to impose anything on full nodes , as long as these transactions aren't included into a block . In the future an alert system similar to what satoshi had implemented will work for mining nodes . All other nodes play no part in consensus , so there's no reason to try to regulate them . It would be a total waste of energy to try to hunt down every non mining node on the planet . 

[1714199917]

1714199917

[1714199917]

1714199917

[mikeywith]

There's no need to impose anything on full nodes , as long as these transactions aren't included into a block .

That is true, but hard in practice, if the U.S wants certain addresses to be banned, they have no say on a miner node that sits in China, that node will still include the transaction and broadcast it to U.S nodes.

There is no way that all governments and all countries will impose the same rules, it will always be one country and its pawns, so IMO if x country wants to go full retard, they would force the ban on all nodes running in their country.

[alani123]

OCEAN has been steadily increasing its hashrate.


Now that a new block was mined more people might want to jump on the pool with their hashrate that they had sitting on other pools.
OCEAN's TIDES system is quite rewarding compared to FPPS/PPS and PPLNS pools, especially now. If s block is mined with exceeding luck miners on Ocean Pool get paid their full rewards, including luck, immediately.

[DaveF]

OCEAN has been steadily increasing its hashrate.

Now that a new block was mined more people might want to jump on the pool with their hashrate that they had sitting on other pools.
OCEAN's TIDES system is quite rewarding compared to FPPS/PPS and PPLNS pools, especially now. If s block is mined with exceeding luck miners on Ocean Pool get paid their full rewards, including luck, immediately.

Nope a single miner that is probably ocean themselves keeps adding hashrate:
https://ocean.xyz/stats/3MkwkMZHBkpz8czCipgf4SwsNwpgbV38Qz

No miner who is in it to make as much BTC as possible would be mining here.
Giving up $6000 per block or more is just nonsensical just because you don't want to include certain transactions.

-Dave

[alani123]

Miners in OCEAN probably make more than a miner in any other pool by hashrate given the 0% fee and the disadvantages of FPPS share models other than TIDES which ocean utilizes.

Also something most people don't realize is that OCEAN doesn't exactly ban inscriptions. In their latest block there was a single inscription that was included. It was included because there are certain requirements in the filters. Maximum data included must be under 42 bytes and the fee paid must be higher so as not to take advantage of the bug that gives full witness discounts to excessive data.

Not to mention that most pools that include Ordinals without limitationsn also accept our of band payments, which takes up space in the block for “accelerated” transactions without having any transparency on if these funds will be distributed to miners.

So yeah, smaller miners are also naturally migrating to OCEAN. The dashboard shows the total amount of workers and individual miner addresses. And it's also growing slowly but surely.
Well a lot of the hash power is owned by corporations with their own pool these days so we can't realistically expect these to switch but still, the growth is there.

[DaveF]

...Also something most people don't realize is that OCEAN doesn't exactly ban inscriptions. In their latest block there was a single inscription that was included. It was included because there are certain requirements in the filters. Maximum data included must be under 42 bytes and the fee paid must be higher so as not to take advantage of the bug that gives full witness discounts to excessive data....

They also do not mine Whirlpool coinjoin transactions and BIP47 notification transactions and who knows what else that we have not seen yet that they will not mine.

With the last few blocks as of this post being heavy on inscriptions with higher fees it would be worse if they found a block as @mikeywith pointed out.
A lot of high fee TXs that they don't approve of without a decent number of those that they do and it's going to hurt.
If it's like the block they found and are only giving up BTC.14 give or take then the 0 fee does make up for it.

-Dave

[mikeywith]

Miners in OCEAN probably make more than a miner in any other pool by hashrate given the 0% fee

0% is just some marketing stuff, it won't last forever, many pools did it when they first started, and it's only a matter of time before they change that unless they treat the pool as a charity then that would be a different story, in their last block they traded a 7.556BTC block for a 7.412 BTC block that's 1.9% which is higher than many PPLNS pools (not sure why you compare a PPLNS to a PPS pool in the first place).

 

[Sledge0001]

I'm just gonna leave this here...

https://mempool.space/block/0000000000000000000358db21e5c9343f96c0733e2343d0c8c7137fd80dd47c?showDetails=true&view=actual#details

[NotFuzzyWarm]

I'm just gonna leave this here...

https://mempool.space/block/0000000000000000000358db21e5c9343f96c0733e2343d0c8c7137fd80dd47c?showDetails=true&view=actual#details

So they've now decided to mine empty blocks if there is not enough 'legit' tx's available?
Idiots...  

[Sledge0001]

So they've no decided to mine empty blocks if there is not enough 'legit' tx's available?
Idiots... 

Certainly seems that way.

[cryptosize]

I'm just gonna leave this here...

https://mempool.space/block/0000000000000000000358db21e5c9343f96c0733e2343d0c8c7137fd80dd47c?showDetails=true&view=actual#details

How is it possible to have ZERO "legit" transactions in that block?

The mempool is far from empty... do they censor literally EVERY transaction and just get the coinbase transaction (6.25 BTC)?

[stompix]

I'm just gonna leave this here...

https://mempool.space/block/0000000000000000000358db21e5c9343f96c0733e2343d0c8c7137fd80dd47c?showDetails=true&view=actual#details

How is it possible to have ZERO "legit" transactions in that block?

The mempool is far from empty... do they censor literally EVERY transaction and just get the coinbase transaction (6.25 BTC)?

And now Ocean is helping the spam by mining empty blocks, this is just gold! But..
Neah, it's not censorship, it's too much luck  
The block Was mined at 00:32 and the previous at 00:31 probably again the same thing, found the block the second they started, didn't wait for the the tx template and broadcasted the empty block to make sure they get at least the block reward. Others do it too but for Ocean with their 1/1000 chance of finding a block this really blows.

Alani123, how are those profits coming?


LE, yeah, as I thought, Luke is against going nuts on x!
He says his empty block is actually a good thing since it adds security to the blockchain! LMAO!

[cryptosize]

I'm just gonna leave this here...

https://mempool.space/block/0000000000000000000358db21e5c9343f96c0733e2343d0c8c7137fd80dd47c?showDetails=true&view=actual#details

How is it possible to have ZERO "legit" transactions in that block?

The mempool is far from empty... do they censor literally EVERY transaction and just get the coinbase transaction (6.25 BTC)?

And now Ocean is helping the spam by mining empty blocks, this is just gold! But..
Neah, it's not censorship, it's too much luck  
The block as mined at 00:32 and the previous at 00:31 probably again the same thing, found the block the second they started, didn't wait for the the tx template and broadcasted the empty block to make sure they get at least the block reward. Others do it too but for Ocean with their 1/1000 chance of finding a block this really blows.

Alani123, how are those profits coming?


LE, yeah, as I thought, Luke is against going nuts on x!
He says his empty block is actually a good thing since it adds security to the blockchain! LMAO!

https://twitter.com/LukeDashjr/status/1741967158282686683

[cryptosize]

Censoring cannot last for too long, it's not the first time it happens in the BTC network:

https://ir.mara.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1239/marathon-digital-holdings-becomes-the-first-north-american

vs

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/bitcoin-mining-company-marathon-will-stop-censoring-transactions-start-signaling-for

[Sledge0001]

I'm not sure but this maybe the first empty block of 2024
 Congrats I guess  

Edit: They mined the 2nd empty block of 2024...

[kano]

Miners in OCEAN probably make more than a miner in any other pool by hashrate given the 0% fee and the disadvantages of FPPS share models other than TIDES which ocean utilizes.
...

Except they threw away more than 1BTC in fees - so they are clearly NOT making more than other pools ...

[cryptosize]

Miners in OCEAN probably make more than a miner in any other pool by hashrate given the 0% fee and the disadvantages of FPPS share models other than TIDES which ocean utilizes.
...

Except they threw away more than 1BTC in fees - so they are clearly NOT making more than other pools ...

Reminds me of "go woke, go broke".

Won't last for too long in Capitalism...

[mikeywith]

The block Was mined at 00:32 and the previous at 00:31 probably again the same thing

block timestamps are not to be trusted 100%, but ya, it probably happened in no more than 5 seconds or so.

Alani123, how are those profits coming?

Public transport, could take a while.

He says his empty block is actually a good thing since it adds security to the blockchain! LMAO!

He is actually right, empty blocks do contribute to the overall strength of the blockchain, and does make a lot of money, here is a simple math I did years ago arguing with Kano

Now since this happens almost every 10 mins, then that is A LOT of money to be made by mining empty blocks, and here is how.

There is 86400000ms in a day, and 144 blocks to be mined, so by utilizing 100ms every 10 mins you get a total of 14400ms which is 0.0167% of the total 24 hours.

When a pool like F2pool saves 150ms for every potential block, that's 552510 terahash worth of mining, if that's hard to understand think of it this way.

When F2pool knows about a new block coming, and while going through that 150ms process they switch their hashrate to another PPS pool and say that is Viabtc, by the end of the day they would get paid $1500 from mining for 150ms every 10 mins or a total of 21.1 seconds a day with 22,100,420.00th worth of hash power, but instead of doing this, they would just mine to their own pool and still by the end of the day/week/month/year, they will theoretically make that same amount of money.

And it gets even better when you don't have to download the block in the first place when your pool is synced with the other pools via any other protocol and all you need is their hash (not even the block header) then that makes it well above 200ms, but even with these numbers F2pool can potentially make over half a million dollar in profit yearly, or otherwise, lose it if they use your code and not mine empty blocks.

Of course, it no more 1.5k a day for those large pools, but the "good sum of money" theory holds stronger than ever today lol, but anyway, not to forget that doing so risks forking the blockchain, if you mine empty blocks then you likely don't verify the transactions, you are blindly building on a block of which you did not fully verify.

But I gotta be fair to Luke, he was always fine with empty blocks, he was very vocal against Jeff Garzik when Jeff proposed to change the protocol to disallow empty blocks.

[alani123]

Miners in OCEAN probably make more than a miner in any other pool by hashrate given the 0% fee and the disadvantages of FPPS share models other than TIDES which ocean utilizes.
...

Except they threw away more than 1BTC in fees - so they are clearly NOT making more than other pools ...

How sure can you be about that though?
Have you measured how much the same work would pay in OCEAN and how much it would pay under other share models?
For all I know even if a pool doesn't accept payments for "accelerating" transactions (which take space away from other transactions without guaranteeing payment to miners), most other share models heavily favor the handful of largest miners in a pool at the detriment of any smaller miner that might not be as "professional" end up earning much less.

[kano]

Miners in OCEAN probably make more than a miner in any other pool by hashrate given the 0% fee and the disadvantages of FPPS share models other than TIDES which ocean utilizes.
...

Except they threw away more than 1BTC in fees - so they are clearly NOT making more than other pools ...

How sure can you be about that though?
Have you measured how much the same work would pay in OCEAN and how much it would pay under other share models?
For all I know even if a pool doesn't accept payments for "accelerating" transactions (which take space away from other transactions without guaranteeing payment to miners), most other share models heavily favor the handful of largest miners in a pool at the detriment of any smaller miner that might not be as "professional" end up earning much less.

Vague comments about random possibilities of other pools stupidly ignoring transactions (like you do) mean nothing.

Fact: ocean produced an empty block, wasted possible transaction space, and threw away the available block fees.
How is ocean going to make up that lost BTC they threw away? They wont. It's by design that they throw away BTC.

On my PPLNS pool, we never ignore transactions, we have never produced an empty block over the past 9.3 years, 2435 blocks, and our last block yesterday, we had over 1BTC in fees on top of the 6.25 BTC reward, and on top of all that my pool only charges a tiny 0.5% fee.