Eligius pool is back under the new name Ocean

[philipma1957]

~

You have to add two rules to the analogy
- the bird will only fall after the last buss has left the station
- the bird will not fall unless the driver has already started his engine  
The last one is tricky because in the analogy the driver just spends gas while in the mining scenario it can actually profit.

but these days is VERY rare but still does happen.

It is not very rare, it is more like impossible, mempool has not been empty for years, not for a single moment.

Those fees are driving us all crazy that we started to think it empty blocks are a thing of past eras but no, the mempool was empty for at least a few seconds during last springs, not full blocks were quite common and there were some moments when indeed it was empty, of course not for more than a few seconds probably till the next tx came but it still did happen.

Um, for whatever reason(s) Luke's original Eligius pool software was exceeding slow at processing new work and because of that yes even back then he was doing empty blocks.

In his tweet he talks about a fee seconds, about 6 seconds difference between receiving the block and propagating his own, so ya certainly longer than Kano's.

I know that timestamps are really tricky, but is there a way to find out the smallest interval two full blocks have been found even with approximation?
Viabtc, f2pool offer the data to the seconds but crawling that seems like a pain in the ass and I don't think it's worth the effort.

time stamps are off.

I have seen block xxx10 at 10:00:01. and block xxx11 at 9:59:59

a later block arrived first. no shit timestamp info

this may have been corrected ,but it is was possible at one time.

I have seen antpool do back to back to back blocks  with seconds apart.

As they had a short cut method that made rewards quicker .

[kano]

The block timestamp is set by the pool when it sends work to the miner.
Some miners can also increment the timestamp - but it is not when the block was found.

[philipma1957]

The block timestamp is set by the pool when it sends work to the miner.
Some miners can also increment the timestamp - but it is not when the block was found.

exactly that the time stamp does not match the real time.

[mikeywith]

You have to add two rules to the analogy
- the bird will only fall after the last buss has left the station

Correct!

- the bird will not fall unless the driver has already started his engine  
The last one is tricky because in the analogy the driver just spends gas while in the mining scenario it can actually profit.

Ya I'd say turning off the engine is not an option here, so maybe the bus driver needs to roll down his window while the engine is running and burning gas? me and my bus fudge analogies.

Those fees are driving us all crazy that we started to think it empty blocks are a thing of past eras but no, the mempool was empty for at least a few seconds during last springs, not full blocks were quite common and there were some moments when indeed it was empty, of course not for more than a few seconds probably till the next tx came but it still did happen.

I think it's likely a gltich on the mempool you were checking, otherwise, if that was the case, then we should have seen some empty blocks that are somewhat spaced in propagation time, LoyceV maintains a list of empty blocks somewhere IIRC, might worth checking.

The block timestamp is set by the pool when it sends work to the miner.
Some miners can also increment the timestamp - but it is not when the block was found.

Is it safe to assume that block timestamps are likely set into the future, I don't know exactly how pools handle the timestamp but judging by the(MPT) rule it's safer for a miner to write block timestamp slightly into future , in case the previous blocks were pushed into future which would invalidate their blocks,  it also gives miners an advantage of having a lower difficulty adjustment (nothing much, below 1% indeed if they all pushed the blocktime into the future), plus getting a wider nonce range without having to alter the Merkle root.?

[LoyceV]

LoyceV maintains a list of empty blocks somewhere IIRC, might worth checking.

See Bitcoin block data available in CSV format, and combine for instance time.txt with weight.txt.

[HmmMAA]

@kano
As it's difficult to have a direct contact with a pool owner , can i ask if your node's connections are random or are you mostly ( or fully ) connected to other pools ? It's something i'd like to ask for a long time , it will help me understand if how i think network works is correct on not . Thank you in advance .

[NotFuzzyWarm]

@kano
As it's difficult to have a direct contact with a pool owner , can i ask if your node's connections are random or are you mostly ( or fully ) connected to other pools ? It's something i'd like to ask for a long time , it will help me understand if how i think network works is correct on not . Thank you in advance .

To keep from going off topic here, refer to post #1 in the Kanopool thread You can post your questions there and he will be sure to reply. Also has a Discord channel. See https://kano.is/ for the Discord invite for better access to the channel.

In short - it has several nodes spread around the world and fastest possible connections to the BTC network.

[alani123]

Interestingly some big miners have hopped onto OCEAN.
The pool briefly reached above 1 exahash yesterday. I am not sure what the logistics and thought process of moving hashrate are but probably the pool is going to keep growing its hashrate if things continue like this.
Miners moving some of their hash temporarily are probably comparing their rewards to PPLNS pools and realizing that they're earning more on OCEAN, then moving their full hashrate on the pool.

Actually most big miners that are on OCEAN had a test run at first. It's interesting that this can be observed through their history on the pool.

[alani123]

Some odd fluctuations in the pool's hashrate seem to be taking place, seems like some of the larger miners are probably dictating that.


After the pool peaked at 1 Eh/s a lot of hash power went out, some other went in.
Some facilities might be having issues, other miners might be doing testing...
Who knows. But I still speculate that eventually more hash power will settle in ocean pool as more miners realize that in the long run the TIDES payment structure is more profitable than PPLNS.

On the other hand, the pool also doesn't punish pool hopping, so we'll probably keep seeing noticable changes in it's total hash power till more miners of a larger scale settle in it.

Probably a good time to get in more shares as part of the pie now in case a block is found now if you're a miner though

[Sledge0001]

Some odd fluctuations in the pool's hashrate seem to be taking place, seems like some of the larger miners are probably dictating that.


After the pool peaked at 1 Eh/s a lot of hash power went out, some other went in.
Some facilities might be having issues, other miners might be doing testing...
Who knows. But I still speculate that eventually more hash power will settle in ocean pool as more miners realize that in the long run the TIDES payment structure is more profitable than PPLNS.

On the other hand, the pool also doesn't punish pool hopping, so we'll probably keep seeing noticable changes in it's total hash power till more miners of a larger scale settle in it.

Probably a good time to get in more shares as part of the pie now in case a block is found now if you're a miner though

Weather in the US playing a huge factor in the decline in hashrate across many pools.

[cryptosize]

Weather in the US playing a huge factor in the decline in hashrate across many pools.

In what sense?

[Sledge0001]

Weather in the US playing a huge factor in the decline in hashrate across many pools.

In what sense?

In the sense that there were many farms and data centers under curtailment.

[cryptosize]

Weather in the US playing a huge factor in the decline in hashrate across many pools.

In what sense?

In the sense that there were many farms and data centers under curtailment.

What does "curtailment" mean?

I thought many BTC miners (over 50%) got electricity from renewable energy sources.

[Sledge0001]

Weather in the US playing a huge factor in the decline in hashrate across many pools.

In what sense?

In the sense that there were many farms and data centers under curtailment.

What does "curtailment" mean?

I thought many BTC miners (over 50%) got electricity from renewable energy sources.

Curtailments are when miners shut their facilities due to power demands due to weather or high demand by the energy grid. Many farms get a portion of their energy from renewable sources but not all.

Compass for instance had many of their farms offline in the past 48 hours due to the increase in demand on the energy grid caused by inclimate weather resulting in a reduction of hashrate to many pools.

[NotFuzzyWarm]

I thought many BTC miners (over 50%) got electricity from renewable energy sources.

The renewables are the problem. Just *how* do you think being renewable would help matters???

And what does that have to do with power shortages? Answer: Wind & solar power is highly variable and bad weather causes numerable problems such as what Texas is currently experiencing https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/01/16/green-wind-solar-energy-freezing-texas-power-grid-blackout/  Only Nuclear and fossil-fueled (gas of course - not coal) power plants are able to run regardless of weather (and at night). Sorry Greenies but your unrealistic goals of zero-emissions for the world just cannot work. Reality can be a bitch eh?  

Considering the massive mining farms located mainly in Texas and a few in other areas of the US like Nebraska and Montana - all of whom have agreements with their power providers to cut back their mining when power is needed elsewhere in the state - of course the hash rate is way down.

[cryptosize]

I thought many BTC miners (over 50%) got electricity from renewable energy sources.

The renewables are the problem. Just *how* do you think being renewable would help matters???

And what does that have to do with power shortages? Answer: Wind & solar power is highly variable and bad weather causes numerable problems such as what Texas is currently experiencing https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2024/01/16/green-wind-solar-energy-freezing-texas-power-grid-blackout/  Only Nuclear and fossil-fueled (gas of course - not coal) power plants are able to run regardless of weather (and at night). Sorry Greenies but your unrealistic goals of zero-emissions for the world just cannot work. Reality can be a bitch eh?  

Considering the massive mining farms located mainly in Texas and a few in other areas of the US like Nebraska and Montana - all of whom have agreements with their power providers to cut back their mining when power is needed elsewhere in the state - of course the hash rate is way down.

Are you dumb or what? I'm a Net Zero critic. Calm your titties.

Regarding renewable energy and BTC mining, I believe it's a good combo, since ASICs don't have to run 24/7/365. It's not an industry that produces cars/food or something like that...

You could have solar-powered ASICs dispersed all over the world and they would work only during the day. Not a big deal, since there's always a certain place that has day, while others have night. Hashrate would fluctuate a bit of course, but BTC can handle it.

Wind mills also tend to provide plenty of electricity during the night, so that's another alternative to keep the ASICs running during night hours.

[stompix]

I believe it's a good combo, since ASICs don't have to run 24/7/365. s.

What the f***?

I thought many BTC miners (over 50%) got electricity from renewable energy sources.

And you actually believed that?  
That's why Mara bought a coal powerplant, riot another one , core one on gas and forgot their names want to burn tires for electricity!
In other news Tesla cars are made with zero energy out of recycles beer bottles and they run on unicorn farts, while  the Exxon Valdez oil spill was actual good for the wildlife helping penguins keep their black color intact (yeah I know there are no penguins in Alaska)

Anyhow

The block timestamp is set by the pool when it sends work to the miner.
Some miners can also increment the timestamp - but it is not when the block was found.

exactly that the time stamp does not match the real time.

Yeah my bad, I forgot to add by the same pool in that, since we can't trust the times of two different pools I was looking for the time of two blocks mined by the same pool, since those mentioned report the time on their website to the second that would be the minimal time ever with a certain bit of accuracy. But it drops the number of instances by two order of magnitude since that miner has to mine itself two consecutive blocks.
Still the minimal time it ever took them to do so would be interesting!

[cryptosize]

I believe it's a good combo, since ASICs don't have to run 24/7/365. s.

What the f***?

What part you don't understand exactly?

The BTC network is decentralized, which means ASICs can turn on and off regularly on demand (depending on power sources).

I thought many BTC miners (over 50%) got electricity from renewable energy sources.

And you actually believed that?  
That's why Mara bought a coal powerplant, riot another one , core one on gas and forgot their names want to burn tires for electricity!
In other news Tesla cars are made with zero energy out of recycles beer bottles and they run on unicorn farts, while  the Exxon Valdez oil spill was actual good for the wildlife helping penguins keep their black color intact (yeah I know there are no penguins in Alaska)

Give me a better source if you can:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/digital-assets/2023/09/21/why-bitcoin-mining-might-actually-be-great-for-sustainability/
https://digitalinfranetwork.com/news/research-suggests-over-50-per-cent-of-btc-mining-uses-clean-energy/
https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/news/bitcoin-mining-fifty-percent-renewable/

ps: I'm not in favor of WEF/Great Reset/ESG, but that doesn't mean that BTC + renewable energy + AI won't be the best tech combo ever invented. Mark my words, BTC has nothing to be afraid of.

[alani123]

One of the (not so many) times I agree with stompix here.

We all have to understand that corporations are in it for the money.
A good image benefits them and they're going to invest a lot in it, but sometimes that also involves being outright deceitful or just lying to get people to think you're doing something good.
Is mining based on renewable energy? Maybe yes, but only to some extent.
To claim that it's based on 50% renewable energy would be a lie though.
First of all the energy draw of a miner is constant, but the energy produced by renewable energy sources never is.

Operators of large mining facilities can strike meaningful agreements with energy producing companies, because they can help them monetize overproduction.
But that can also mean that the operators will be  forced out of the network (either financially or through agreement) when there's high demand that the network has to cover.
They will then have to fall back to more traditional and on-demand ready energy production methods such as fossil fuel (hence the coal). \

One could say that since energy production factories often can't run under capacity and are therefore usually over-producing energy, that if bitcoin miners mostly utilize that then their impact on their environment is mostly negligent since they don't create a carbon footprint that wouldn't be there without them. In this fashion, the claim that bitcoin miners run 50% on renewable energy could have some meaning IF these renewable sources had a positive impact by cutting down the production needs for regular energy consumers while the miners don't have to rely on them. But the coal mines/energy factories being owned and operated by BTC mining companies make this all these Greenwashing claims seem very deceptive.

I actually haven't verified this from a third party source but at least in Ocean's introductory livestream it was claimed that Bob Burnett's Barefoot Mining renovated and turned on an old hydroelectric plant to utilize as the energy source for a BTC mining farm. Supposedly attendees even received a tour in the facility. I'm not gonna say you should take them at their word, these things are hard to verify anyway. But if true, then we should give them credit for doing environmentally conscious mining the way it should be done. Hydro, contrary to solar whose productivity dwindles year by year, has a long lifespan, and even if bitcoin mining ends a few decades down the line, hydro projects could continue to be still utilized by future generations.

[kano]

The block timestamp is set by the pool when it sends work to the miner.
Some miners can also increment the timestamp - but it is not when the block was found.

exactly that the time stamp does not match the real time.

Yeah my bad, I forgot to add by the same pool in that, since we can't trust the times of two different pools I was looking for the time of two blocks mined by the same pool, since those mentioned report the time on their website to the second that would be the minimal time ever with a certain bit of accuracy. But it drops the number of instances by two order of magnitude since that miner has to mine itself two consecutive blocks.
Still the minimal time it ever took them to do so would be interesting!

Well my pool, every so often, sees blocks by two different pools well under 1 second apart, so I've no idea where the 5 second number came from.
eligius used to get a massive high orphan rate, due to their poor code, so I guess they will continue to do that.