Eligius pool is back under the new name Ocean

[stompix]

What part you don't understand exactly?
The BTC network is decentralized, which means ASICs can turn on and off regularly on demand (depending on power sources).

Yeah, right, no!
Mining is a business, ASICs are like airplanes, you stop then (you ground them) you lose money!
And it has nothing to do with decentralization, that's the blockchain, this is $!

Give me a better source if you can:

You consider an article written by a guy:

I'm a policy guy working at the nexus of blockchain and global affairs

to not be baised?

The source is pretty simple, Marathon was forced to shut down it coals power plan at Hardin and move out to Rockdale
https://ir.mara.com/sec-filings/all-sec-filings/content/0001493152-23-007879/0001493152-23-007879.pdf guess how the new facility is powered?

https://greenidge.com/our-story/
Check the timeline at the bottom  Good old gas!

Riot and Whinstone, guess what is powering that?
https://www.gem.wiki/Whinstone_Bitcoin_mining_facility

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/texas-bitcoin-riot-ercot-grid-energy-18352398.php

The "Sandow Switch" that once was used by the Alcoa coal power plant now provides electricity for the Whinstone US Bitcoin mining facility in Rockdale, Texas,

Let's go to hut8:
https://hut8.com/2024/01/08/hut-8-receives-court-approval-in-its-stalking-horse-bid-for-four-natural-gas-power-plants-including-the-north-bay-bitcoin-mine/

Among other things, the Approval and Vesting Order approves the Company’s previously announced stalking horse bid transaction (the “Transaction“) to acquire four natural gas power plants including the North Bay Bitcoin mine, which was submitted in partnership with Macquarie Equipment Finance Ltd. (“Macquarie”), a subsidiary of Macquarie Group Limited, a global financial services group.

Let's move to Aboutbit:
https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2022/05/11/2440883/0/en/AboutBit-launches-one-of-nation-s-largest-cryptocurrency-mining-facilities.html

The location itself provides additional advantages for miners, investors, and the community. The 10-acre site is currently home to the Merom Generating Station, which means transmission and other infrastructure is already in place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merom_Generating_Station

Merom Generating Station is a 2-unit, 1080 MW rated coal-fired power plant

I'm getting bored, if you want more just google around, now it's your turn to show me one mining farm running on wind and solar alone to balance that to 0.5% at least not 50%. Don't forget Rockdale alone is 750MW!

[cryptosize]

What part you don't understand exactly?
The BTC network is decentralized, which means ASICs can turn on and off regularly on demand (depending on power sources).

Yeah, right, no!
Mining is a business, ASICs are like airplanes, you stop then (you ground them) you lose money!
And it has nothing to do with decentralization, that's the blockchain, this is $!

You do realize that even with coal/gas/nuclear power sometimes ASICs are forced to shut down due to energy shortages, right?

That's part of the business...

If you want 24/7/365, make your own uninterruptible power source. When you depend on someone else, you'll be forced to follow their mandates.

Regarding the energy mix, I never said they don't use coal/gas/nuclear.

I said 50% comes from renewables, which means the remaining 50% comes from other sources (coal/gas/nuclear). There's nothing to debunk here.

[Sledge0001]

You also should consider that at times the cost of energy exceeds the rewards from mining also resulting in mining farm curtailments regardless of energy sources.

[alani123]

Interesting, OCEAN has been sitting at ~1.25 Eh/s for a few hours with relative stability. Let's see if it'll last this time.

As it's pretty natural with mining most of the hashrate comes from the top miners by hashrate, even though the pool has more than 400 individual miners active.
Also this time around the hashrate increased by many new miners tuning in around at the same time. So it might as well be the same operation just using different addresses.
With OCEAN these things can be observed from the pools page which monitors each address' activity very thoroughly.

[ABCbits]

Interesting, OCEAN has been sitting at ~1.25 Eh/s for a few hours with relative stability. Let's see if it'll last this time.

As it's pretty natural with mining most of the hashrate comes from the top miners by hashrate, even though the pool has more than 400 individual miners active.
Also this time around the hashrate increased by many new miners tuning in around at the same time. So it might as well be the same operation just using different addresses.
With OCEAN these things can be observed from the pools page which monitors each address' activity very thoroughly.

I wonder what kind of miner decide to join OCEAN. Since OCEAN exclude Ordinals transaction, i only can assume it's someone who really hate Ordinals. It's also interesting this month they found 5 blocks, while last month they only found 3 blocks.

[alani123]

Interesting, OCEAN has been sitting at ~1.25 Eh/s for a few hours with relative stability. Let's see if it'll last this time.

As it's pretty natural with mining most of the hashrate comes from the top miners by hashrate, even though the pool has more than 400 individual miners active.
Also this time around the hashrate increased by many new miners tuning in around at the same time. So it might as well be the same operation just using different addresses.
With OCEAN these things can be observed from the pools page which monitors each address' activity very thoroughly.

I wonder what kind of miner decide to join OCEAN. Since OCEAN exclude Ordinals transaction, i only can assume it's someone who really hate Ordinals. It's also interesting this month they found 5 blocks, while last month they only found 3 blocks.

So far OCEAN's payment model is a bit different than most other pools.
Anytime a block is found, the payment happens immediately and the rewards are distributed as soon as the block is there.
That means that if you had 1% of the share log at the time of hitting a block, you get ~1% of the rewards.
This has both its advantages and disadvantages. The good thing means that you get fully rewarded for block finding luck.
So if a block is found earlier than expected, that means that you get all the rewards you could from the potential luck.
That means that right now OCEAN is a favorable pool for miners that feel lucky.
Edit:
I think though this is supposed to change after the 8th block is found? (Still waiting on the extended version of how the TIDAL payment model works in depth btw)
From what I've read in OCEAN's group the 8th block marks the ending of this "bonus" program and now payments will span 8 blocks.
Supposedly now the share log spans 8 blocks? Luke and Co. have been on twitter spaces every other day but here we have only this thread and I'm not their rep so idk.

[alani123]

Anyone know how could it be possible to see how many of OCEAN's mined TXns are from this new BRC-20 like on-chain technology called RUNES? At least with other such spammy things so far it was pretty easy to notice them by pasting the block tx on ordinals.com. I'm pretty sure Ocean mines Runes but I am not sure how to check entire block so far...

[stompix]

Seems that like always, money is king!

After managing to stay a bit over 1ex, ocean is down to 600ph.
https://ocean.xyz/dashboard
Not surprisingly, when the reward is 3btc and the fees often climb above that why mine here?
You can't feed a family on principles and you can't pay your electricity bills with things you think are right.

It was a dad project from the start, you won't get people who don't want to spend 10$ on tax or buy a 4TB drive for larger blocks to spend $5000 on one machine and lose money every day on bills to keep fees low.

[mikeywith]

After managing to stay a bit over 1ex, ocean is down to 600ph.

The folks behind Ocean Pool are pretty rich, they will probably continue to lose potential profit just to "prove their point", I won't be surprised to see this pool run for many years to come, also, you can't just assume that all miners know what mining is, many folks who already mine on that pool probably don't even know or understand how are they leaving money on the table by mining to this pool, it's wrong to assume that everyone is smart.

[stompix]

The folks behind Ocean Pool are pretty rich, they will probably continue to lose potential profit just to "prove their point", I won't be surprised to see this pool run for many years to come, also, you can't just assume that all miners know what mining is, many folks who already mine on that pool probably don't even know or understand how are they leaving money on the table by mining to this pool, it's wrong to assume that everyone is smart.

I wonder how one of those clueless miners would have reacted if Ocean had mined a block now and instead of getting 8 BTC like Antpool and the rest that got lucky the reward would still have been 3 and a bit BTC. For a pool that mines a block every week throwing away sometimes a 200% of normal revenue down the drain would be a clear stay away sign.

But still, I cheered for Ocean once, it would have been damn hilarious for them to mine the halving block!

[mikeywith]

I wonder how one of those clueless miners would have reacted if Ocean had mined a block now and instead of getting 8 BTC like Antpool and the rest that got lucky the reward would still have been 3 and a bit BTC.

Many people don't even know that other pools are paying differently, in fact, 90% of miners don't understand how the payouts are generated and what formula the pool uses to calculate the rewards, I am willing to guess that nearly nobody that uses Antpool understands how they calculate their FPPS, there is no mentioned about it online, and the average support folks don't know the answer, it takes too much effort to figure out how these payouts originate for every pool, but again, most people are clueless.

[alani123]

The folks behind Ocean Pool are pretty rich, they will probably continue to lose potential profit just to "prove their point", I won't be surprised to see this pool run for many years to come, also, you can't just assume that all miners know what mining is, many folks who already mine on that pool probably don't even know or understand how are they leaving money on the table by mining to this pool, it's wrong to assume that everyone is smart.

I wonder how one of those clueless miners[...]

I wouldn't go as far as to call miners in Ocean clueless. There's plenty of miners there but the pool's hashrate to a large extent comes from miners that have to be managing pretty large operations. At this scale it's probably a very conscious choice. I went into the pool's dashboard to look at what part of the hashrate comes from large miners, and the top 5 make up 470 Ph/s. The Ocean dashboard is pretty transparent at letting anyone monitor this: https://ocean.xyz/dashboard

Probably the pool's total hashrate will rise soon also because it currently sits at around 660 Ph/s but most of the time it's above 1k Ph/s. I guess some mining operations shut down every now and then due to electricity cost spikes or weather etc.
This can be observed from the hashrate graph also,

With changes to the hashrate that are that steep I have to guess the biggest changes in hashrate are coming from large operations that make a point by mining in Ocean. Or perhaps also have found it might be more profitable to mine under the TIDES payment scheme after a block is found because of the way it rewards luck.

[mikeywith]

With changes to the hashrate that are that steep I have to guess the biggest changes in hashrate are coming from large operations that make a point by mining in Ocean. Or perhaps also have found it might be more profitable to mine under the TIDES payment scheme after a block is found because of the way it rewards luck.

So you want to ignore the obvious facts that exist on the longest blockchain the world has ever known and assume some things that only exist in your imagination? how does that work? Ocean pool leaves a ton of money on the table, look at this block https://mempool.space/block/00000000000000000002509da9476db6f578ae8d2bd81d83b992ea37b68db8d1

it has a terrible health score, the pool included some 50+ sat/vByte transactions and left some 140+ sat transactions, anyone who thinks they are somehow magically making more profit mining on Ocean is either clueless or plain stupid, you may argue that they are doing this for the sake of BTC because they think inscription are bad, but you can't just claim they are somehow making a good profit by not mining high paying transactions.

Large pools that found most of the halving blocks have mined more BTC in a single day than they would in weeks, you know how terrible Ocean's rewards would seem if they found a block around the halving when inscriptions were paying 35-40BTC/block? just imagine that you have a 100ph of the 1000ph Ocean has and on that day you received your 0.325BTC when you could have made 4BTC on that same day had your pool mined those transactions.! Ocean Pool was very lucky they didn't mine any of those blocks.

[BlackHatCoiner]

you may argue that they are doing this for the sake of BTC

There is no such sake, that's the thing. It's not a "I don't mine it, it doesn't get into the chain". If you don't mine a transaction, somebody else will. That's how censorship-resistance is ensured. Ocean ignoring a transaction produces the equivalent outcome of mining it and giving the transaction fee to someone else.

I still don't understand how a Bitcoin developer is incapable of grasping this simple concept.

[DaveF]

you may argue that they are doing this for the sake of BTC

There is no such sake, that's the thing. It's not a "I don't mine it, it doesn't get into the chain". If you don't mine a transaction, somebody else will. That's how censorship-resistance is ensured. Ocean ignoring a transaction produces the equivalent outcome of mining it and giving the transaction fee to someone else.

I still don't understand how a Bitcoin developer is incapable of grasping this simple concept.

Ego. He thinks (hopes) people will follow his lead.
He has censored transactions / addresses before: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ityg2/warning_bitcoin_address_blacklists_have_been/
He has attacked other coins before: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/o6qwx/lukejr_attacks_and_kills_coiledcoin_altcurrency/

And yet people still mine at his pool.

-Dave

[BlackHatCoiner]

He has censored transactions / addresses before: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ityg2/warning_bitcoin_address_blacklists_have_been/

If he's really entitled to his opinion, he should censor transactions after they have been included in a block. You censor them when unconfirmed, but accept them when they're mined? What kind of ethics is this?

[cryptosize]

you may argue that they are doing this for the sake of BTC

There is no such sake, that's the thing. It's not a "I don't mine it, it doesn't get into the chain". If you don't mine a transaction, somebody else will. That's how censorship-resistance is ensured. Ocean ignoring a transaction produces the equivalent outcome of mining it and giving the transaction fee to someone else.

I still don't understand how a Bitcoin developer is incapable of grasping this simple concept.

Ego. He thinks (hopes) people will follow his lead.
He has censored transactions / addresses before: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2ityg2/warning_bitcoin_address_blacklists_have_been/
He has attacked other coins before: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/o6qwx/lukejr_attacks_and_kills_coiledcoin_altcurrency/

And yet people still mine at his pool.

-Dave

Damn, I used to use Gentoo on my desktop PC 20 years ago... what kind of crap has this distro become?

His mining pool reminds me of Netflix/modern video games -> "go woke, go broke"

If you're stupid enough to leave money on the table for "holier than thou" reasons, why should I change your mind?

[DaveF]

Damn, I used to use Gentoo on my desktop PC 20 years ago... what kind of crap has this distro become?

His mining pool reminds me of Netflix/modern video games -> "go woke, go broke"

If you're stupid enough to leave money on the table for "holier than thou" reasons, why should I change your mind?

He is actually the opposite of woke, he is a Catholic: https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin_uncensored/comments/492ztl/lukejr_the_only_religion_people_have_a_right_to/

Whatever, it's his pool people are free to mine there and make less BTC. It's good, more BTC for the rest of us.

And this is just my opinion, some of the stratum [mine.ocean.xyz] servers are at Google. Nice to give $ to a company that has banned crypto ads and other crypto things while allowing people to litter their search results with crypto malware links and scams.

-Dave

[alani123]

you may argue that they are doing this for the sake of BTC

There is no such sake, that's the thing. It's not a "I don't mine it, it doesn't get into the chain". If you don't mine a transaction, somebody else will. That's how censorship-resistance is ensured. Ocean ignoring a transaction produces the equivalent outcome of mining it and giving the transaction fee to someone else.

I still don't understand how a Bitcoin developer is incapable of grasping this simple concept.

There's a real tangible effect that ordinals/runes minters will face if part of the hashpower doesn't mine them in the blocks they find.
Effectively they become more expensive to be included in a block. Right now with OCEAN being a small part of the network this effect isn't very large. But it's also acting as a vote of sorts.

If more miners get behind OCEAN it's indicating that they care more about what they perceive as a better step for the health of bitcoin's network rather than some short term profits. Of course Ordinals/Runes give economic incentives for miners to act against the interests of users seeking to transact value on bitcoin's chain, which harms the overall utility of bitcoin as a tool to make electronic cash transactions (which is Satoshi's original intention), so I'd say Luke is right to call these types of transactions an attack on bitcoin.

Surely not everyone has to agree. And not everyone has to follow the same ideals... But Luke isn't forcing anybody to do anything here. It's a novel proposal to miners to opt out of mining abusive transactions completely voluntarily. The results so far show that while some miners hold ideals to support bitcoin against this so called attack, those holding the vast majority of the hash power either don't care enough or would rather go after short term profit.

[cryptosize]

Damn, I used to use Gentoo on my desktop PC 20 years ago... what kind of crap has this distro become?

His mining pool reminds me of Netflix/modern video games -> "go woke, go broke"

If you're stupid enough to leave money on the table for "holier than thou" reasons, why should I change your mind?

He is actually the opposite of woke, he is a Catholic: https://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin_uncensored/comments/492ztl/lukejr_the_only_religion_people_have_a_right_to/

Whatever, it's his pool people are free to mine there and make less BTC. It's good, more BTC for the rest of us.

I know, there are various forms of religions (wokeness is one of them, the most popular these days) that impose their "moral" standards over others. That was my point.

Morality > profit ?

No, thanks!