Spanish citizens to declare foreign crypto holdings by end of March 2024

[zasad@]

https://cointelegraph.com/news/spanish-citizens-declare-foreign-crypto-holdings-end-march
"Only individuals with balance sheets exceeding the equivalent of 50,000 euros in crypto assets are obliged to declare their foreign holdings.
Spanish residents holding any crypto assets on non-Spanish platforms will have to declare them by March 31, 2024, under new laws governing the taxation of virtual assets.

The Spanish Tax Administration Agency, commonly known as Agencia Tributaria, has published form 721, a tax declaration form for virtual assets abroad, which was first announced in the Boletín Oficial del Estado, the Kingdom of Spain’s official state gazette, on July 29, 2023."

[1714725398]

1714725398

[albert0bsd]

So this mean that the spanish goverment recognize those crypto as value and want to profit from them....

I think that other goverments are going to follow the same path in the future... so its better keep your crypto in Non-custodial wallets, and not publish your assets.

[avikz]

Very much expected move! I am sure many other countries will follow the same path where it will be made mandatory to declare the crypto holdings of an individual. That includes both domestic and foreign exchanges.

Crypto is becoming a serious business. Every government understands that. Now if the governments are not cracking down on this, how would ETF companies like Blackrock sell their ETFs?

This about this - you have two options to buy. One is Bitcoin which is taxed at 30% and another is Bitcoin ETF which is taxed at a normal rate. What would you choose?

[Poker Player]

Very much expected move! I am sure many other countries will follow the same path where it will be made mandatory to declare the crypto holdings of an individual. That includes both domestic and foreign exchanges.

Well that's on the one hand, the part of individuals, but legislation on the way from the EU also wants to force all service providers to KYC to the maximum, although it seems that some have some brains left and leave a €1,000 cap:

EU lawmakers impose €1,000 cap on anonymous crypto, cash transactions

Regarding this particular legislation, the "foreign" thing is a bit of a laugh. It seems that they assume that everyone has cryptocurrencies in exchanges, but you would have to see what they consider about people who have HW, because technically speaking they are neither in a country nor abroad, you from your HW have the private keys with which you manage those cryptocurrencies that are on the internet.

[Husires]

What does advertising mean if the person is not planning to sell? Let’s say I have 10 Bitcoins and I have to declare them, but I did not plan to sell. Then the government will not be able to impose taxes on my assets, and when I sell, the sale invoice will inevitably be considered property, and then taxes will be deducted from it? Or is the government planning to deduct taxes from crypto assets even if I do not make the decision to sell?

[zasad@]

What does advertising mean if the person is not planning to sell? Let’s say I have 10 Bitcoins and I have to declare them, but I did not plan to sell. Then the government will not be able to impose taxes on my assets, and when I sell, the sale invoice will inevitably be considered property, and then taxes will be deducted from it? Or is the government planning to deduct taxes from crypto assets even if I do not make the decision to sell?

Your question makes no sense because no one is sure that the laws will not change. Once you declare your coins, you may be caught by your government.
___
“Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with.”
― Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged(C)
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/319903-did-you-really-think-we-want-those-laws-observed-said

John Galt Quotes, Dagny Taggart Quotes, and More from Atlas Shrugged
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5314967.msg56276238#msg56276238

[avikz]

Very much expected move! I am sure many other countries will follow the same path where it will be made mandatory to declare the crypto holdings of an individual. That includes both domestic and foreign exchanges.

Well that's on the one hand, the part of individuals, but legislation on the way from the EU also wants to force all service providers to KYC to the maximum, although it seems that some have some brains left and leave a €1,000 cap:

EU lawmakers impose €1,000 cap on anonymous crypto, cash transactions

Regarding this particular legislation, the "foreign" thing is a bit of a laugh. It seems that they assume that everyone has cryptocurrencies in exchanges, but you would have to see what they consider about people who have HW, because technically speaking they are neither in a country nor abroad, you from your HW have the private keys with which you manage those cryptocurrencies that are on the internet.

That's exactly what is expected from any government. They will first go to the service providers and ask them to implement a KYC norm, then they will mandate the service providers to share their user data with the government. The third step is to ask the citizens to share details about their crypto holdings. The final step is to impose a huge amount of tax on the common people like us.

That's the moto! Also the foreign thing is not hilarious. The government knows that they cannot mandate a foreign exchange to share data with them. So they are mandating their own citizens. This behaviour of the government is going to be increased in coming years.

[zasad@]

Very much expected move! I am sure many other countries will follow the same path where it will be made mandatory to declare the crypto holdings of an individual. That includes both domestic and foreign exchanges.

Well that's on the one hand, the part of individuals, but legislation on the way from the EU also wants to force all service providers to KYC to the maximum, although it seems that some have some brains left and leave a €1,000 cap:

EU lawmakers impose €1,000 cap on anonymous crypto, cash transactions

Regarding this particular legislation, the "foreign" thing is a bit of a laugh. It seems that they assume that everyone has cryptocurrencies in exchanges, but you would have to see what they consider about people who have HW, because technically speaking they are neither in a country nor abroad, you from your HW have the private keys with which you manage those cryptocurrencies that are on the internet.

That's exactly what is expected from any government. They will first go to the service providers and ask them to implement a KYC norm, then they will mandate the service providers to share their user data with the government. The third step is to ask the citizens to share details about their crypto holdings. The final step is to impose a huge amount of tax on the common people like us.

That's the moto! Also the foreign thing is not hilarious. The government knows that they cannot mandate a foreign exchange to share data with them. So they are mandating their own citizens. This behaviour of the government is going to be increased in coming years.

The correct opinion is that if Bitcoin is difficult to ban, then it is not difficult to control it. Now we need to collect as much data as possible about the owners of cryptocurrencies, and then smart algorithms will carry out the necessary analysis and learn about all the owner’s transactions.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

We have obviously talked about this a lot on my local board in a thread started by DdmrDdmr in October 2020.  Not so much about the specific measure that will come into force now, but about the series of measures that have been in the pipeline since then and that we understand are going to end up with KYC everywhere for everything related to cryptocurrencies.

With regard to this in particular, it seems that there is a legal loophole and it could be considered that if you have cryptocurrencies in self-custody in a hardware wallet, for example, you would be exempt from declaring them.

The latest development on this is that the Spanish tax authorities are sending out notices reminding certain taxpayers that they are obliged to declare cryptocurrencies held abroad if they exceed €50,000, and one local forum member has claimed that she has received such a notice.

[HeRetiK]

With regard to this in particular, it seems that there is a legal loophole and it could be considered that if you have cryptocurrencies in self-custody in a hardware wallet, for example, you would be exempt from declaring them.

Seems like self-custody is already covered, but as regular wealth rather than foreign holdings:

However, only individuals with balance sheets exceeding the equivalent of 50,000 euros (around $55,000) in crypto assets are obliged to declare their foreign holdings. Those who store their assets in self-custodied wallets must report their holdings through the standard wealth tax form 714.

Presumably this also means you don't need to report crypto assets in self-custody as long as your overall wealth including crypto is below the requirement limit (from a quick google search this seems to be at EUR 2,000,000,- total).

[Don Pedro Dinero]

Those who store their assets in self-custodied wallets must report their holdings through the standard wealth tax form 714.

Presumably this also means you don't need to report crypto assets in self-custody as long as your overall wealth including crypto is below the requirement limit (from a quick google search this seems to be at EUR 2,000,000,- total).

Well, it's a bit more complicated than that. Wealth tax is devolved to the autonomous communities (regions with regional governments if you prefer), but yes, the obligation to declare wealth tax starts from 2 million euros of wealth. What happens is that some regions like Madrid apply a 100% rebate, so you don't have to pay anything, and others, the majority, do make you pay, but you have the obligation to declare from 2 million euros onwards anyway.

This means that more 99% of Spaniards who have cryptocurrencies in self-custody will not have to declare their cryptoassets because there are about 47.5 million people living in Spain and the wealth tax affects about 200,000 taxpayers, which is only 0.42% of Spaniards and not all of them have cryptocurrencies, there is a very small percentage of Spaniards who will be obliged to declare them in the wealth tax if they have them in self-custody.

The local forum, however, sees this as the beginning of a series of measures that will become increasingly tougher in this respect.

[KingsDen]

https://cointelegraph.com/news/spanish-citizens-declare-foreign-crypto-holdings-end-march
"Only individuals with balance sheets exceeding the equivalent of 50,000 euros in crypto assets are obliged to declare their foreign holdings.
Spanish residents holding any crypto assets on non-Spanish platforms will have to declare them by March 31, 2024, under new laws governing the taxation of virtual assets.

The Spanish Tax Administration Agency, commonly known as Agencia Tributaria, has published form 721, a tax declaration form for virtual assets abroad, which was first announced in the Boletín Oficial del Estado, the Kingdom of Spain’s official state gazette, on July 29, 2023."

And this is the sad reality, regulation is here. There's nothing anyone else can do about this.

• Spanish citizens to declare foreign assets
• USA winning against CZ
• Countries like Philippine banning Binance
• Theymos banning mixer campaigns  

• Kraken handling over data to IRS 
• LN having issues in Europe

[zasad@]

I think that the amounts will decrease every year in order to force all citizens to declare their assets in cryptocurrencies. Innovation and repression always start with the largest and richest owners of cryptocurrencies, and then they will follow ordinary users. But I’m still sure that they will use data from centralized services.

[famososMuertos]

...//...,,

Regarding this particular legislation, the "foreign" thing is a bit of a laugh. It seems that they assume that everyone has cryptocurrencies in exchanges, but you would have to see what they consider about people who have HW, because technically speaking they are neither in a country nor abroad, you from your HW have the private keys with which you manage those cryptocurrencies that are on the internet.

Well, perhaps someone can have a vision on the gray side of the interpretation of the legislation, but there is none, since it does not matter where your assets are located, it is based on where you have established your residence, whether temporary or fixed, That is essential in the correspondence of the Treasury of Spain. So, maybe you travel to Switzerland and left your HW forgotten, you must declare that possession, yes! these are in the quantities mentioned.

In the long run it is not about where your assets are as a Spanish citizen, if you reside in Spain, you declare, without fuss.

[Poker Player]

I think that the amounts will decrease every year in order to force all citizens to declare their assets in cryptocurrencies. Innovation and repression always start with the largest and richest owners of cryptocurrencies, and then they will follow ordinary users. But I’m still sure that they will use data from centralized services.

That is the view I have as well, but it is not widely shared on the forum, which does not mean that others are right. I also had a similar view about mixers some time ago, very little shared, and look what has happened. And what you say about quantities is what is going to happen. In the same way that cash payment limits have been imposed and have been lowered lower and lower (with the recent exception of Italy, which will change downward again as soon as the government changes), the same thing is going to happen with this. The goal is total control of the population, first financial and then in general, with the help of CBDCs and European digital identity.

[zasad@]

https://news.bitcoin.com/spanish-treasury-cryptocurrency-seizures/
"
Spanish Treasury Proposes Tax Reform to Allow Cryptocurrency Seizures

The Spanish Treasury is proposing a tax reform to allow the seizure of cryptocurrency assets when liquidating tax debts. According to local sources, the proposal would also allow the state administration to embargo these digital assets as it is giving the first steps by declaring electronic money entities as tax collection agents."