Mixers to be banned

[digaran]

I would like to use this opportunity to deliver a political message to the world, I made it in a funny way.

This isn't over, when the night comes, you will realize who is your daddy! 😂

[1714239796]

1714239796

[arabspaceship123]

We've been instructed about what's allowed so ppl can't say they weren't warned about mixers bans. If ppl make innocent mistakes posting about mixers are they getting banned or receiving warnings. Have you decided what's the punishment being handed for breaking new mixer ban rules.

Can we use url shortener to use a referral link in our sig without any mention of mixing in our profile?

Any promotion in the signature is disallowed.

url shortener

That is an unintended loophole. I edited the OP:

Mixer URLs will be automatically wordfiltered out, but you can still discuss mixers otherwise. Using link-shorteners or other obfuscation techniques in order to post URLs which would otherwise be wordfiltered is not allowed.

[takuma sato]

I am a strong believer in the right to privacy (even if some people take it what I believe to be too far), and a centralized mixer has the potential to enhance privacy. Also, however, mixers have the potential to give nothing more than the illusion of privacy and highlight your transactions to governments and other nosy people.

I agree. Anyone who uses a mixer should consider that they might be a honeypot. And that's why it makes little sense for a real criminal to put these services above Monero and coinjoins, which are trustless.

Sure, if mixers can be the cause to shut this place down, no matter how sad it might be, forbid them. It just makes little sense from a government's perspective. If I was a government official, I would want such services to run, because they would be central point of failures that I can go after. Forbidding them would push everyone (especially criminals) to decentralized, trustless solutions which I cannot control.

Most people use mixers to have any reasonable privacy before making a payment. It's crazy that the government puts everyone in some sort of "potential terrorist list" for using a mixer. If you get paid from an ad campaign and want to buy some stuff or pay someone, it's not a big deal to anyone reasonable, but now im not sure if it's worth the risk of cashing out any payments. Who knows what could happen. I think cashing out any coins that weren't bought in Coinbase or other KYC exchange will be a risk by default since they threat people like they are from Hamas if you didn't buy them on their favorite exchange basically. The government should understand that Bitcoin has no privacy at all unless mix the coins before a payment. If you pay someone, they can look up your address and see your entire BTC networth easily, so mixing it before sending a payment is only reasonable. Unless someone fights this politically and explains them how this works things will only get worse.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

I would like to use this opportunity to deliver a political message to the world, I made it in a funny way.

This isn't over, when the night comes, you will realize who is your daddy! 😂

From this meme, I think it should be BTT (Bitcointalk) admiring mixers as off it go.

[JollyGood]

It is good to see we can make light fun of the fact that a defining moment in the history of the forum is about to unfold 

It has been three weeks since theymos made this thread to inform us of his decision (but personally for me) it seems far longer than that, probably because of the endless discussion on the matter. I am eager to see how the forum will appear after that.

From this meme, I think it should be BTT (Bitcointalk) admiring mixers as off it go.

[Cricktor]

Not so many posts with mixers content philipma  

Since the 28th of August:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5471372.msg63043618#msg63043618
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5437464.msg63238989#msg63238989
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5475589.msg63243635#msg63243635
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5478443.msg63347770#msg63347770
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5476162.msg63350282#msg63350282

I will go back and delete these posts after Christmas.

The first two linked posts have nothing to do with mixers nor do their posted images have anything to do with mixers. I have no idea why paid2 included those post's links from philipma1957.

@philipma1957, there's no need to delete old posts according to theymos' new rules. Why are you so keen to self-censoring? Your account here should be safe. Afraid of your government or its three-letter-agencies?

[LoyceV]

The first two linked posts have nothing to do with mixers nor do their posted images have anything to do with mixers. I have no idea why paid2 included those post's links from philipma1957.

Check the avatar in the screenshots.

[JollyGood]

I am curious, why would go back and delete any posts if there is no requirement?

If we all started going to back to any/all posts related to mixers (or any banned subject) then a phenomenal amount of posts would disappear for public to access. Those posts form part of the fabric of the history of this forum therefore if there is no contravention of rules and no compulsion on part of theymos, why would consider deleting them?

I will go back and delete these posts after Christmas.

[joker_josue]

Not so many posts with mixers content philipma  

Since the 28th of August:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5471372.msg63043618#msg63043618
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5437464.msg63238989#msg63238989
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5475589.msg63243635#msg63243635
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5478443.msg63347770#msg63347770
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5476162.msg63350282#msg63350282

I will go back and delete these posts after Christmas.

The first two linked posts have nothing to do with mixers nor do their posted images have anything to do with mixers. I have no idea why paid2 included those post's links from philipma1957.

@philipma1957, there's no need to delete old posts according to theymos' new rules. Why are you so keen to self-censoring? Your account here should be safe. Afraid of your government or its three-letter-agencies?

I think this will also be an exaggeration. The subject has nothing to do with mixers, and I don't think this type of image is interpreted as advertising mixers.

Unless the images are a clear message to promote mixers, which is not the case, they may be removed.

Therefore, I think it is not worth this type of exaggeration, and going beyond what the new rules indicate.

[PrimeNumber7]

I am a strong believer in the right to privacy (even if some people take it what I believe to be too far), and a centralized mixer has the potential to enhance privacy. Also, however, mixers have the potential to give nothing more than the illusion of privacy and highlight your transactions to governments and other nosy people.

I agree. Anyone who uses a mixer should consider that they might be a honeypot. And that's why it makes little sense for a real criminal to put these services above Monero and coinjoins, which are trustless.

There tends to be a good amount of coin that flows through the various mixers originating from criminal activity. This is why governments have employed resources into shutting down mixers and finding their operators.

Sure, if mixers can be the cause to shut this place down, no matter how sad it might be, forbid them. It just makes little sense from a government's perspective. If I was a government official, I would want such services to run, because they would be central point of failures that I can go after. Forbidding them would push everyone (especially criminals) to decentralized, trustless solutions which I cannot control.

Governments are going after centralized mixers. I would question the legality of the government running a mixer as a 'honeypot' for more than a short period of time, although they can seize any logs the mixer was keeping, regardless of any public claims to the contrary.

[EarnOnVictor]

It is good to see we can make light fun of the fact that a defining moment in the history of the forum is about to unfold 

It has been three weeks since theymos made this thread to inform us of his decision (but personally for me) it seems far longer than that, probably because of the endless discussion on the matter. I am eager to see how the forum will appear after that.

Everyone is eager, but in reality, nothing will happen, the forum will remain the same as it is now and will even continue to wax stronger afterwards. Activities will continue, so are new campaigns, they will come and it goes on like that. It mustn't be about the m!xers that will now turn everything upside down.

The forum started on the right footing, excluding m!xers will not change anything. Many might think some users will go, so be it, that will still change anything because the forum is greater than any individual.

"Soldier goes, Soldier come, Barrack remains."

[OgNasty]

I am a strong believer in the right to privacy (even if some people take it what I believe to be too far), and a centralized mixer has the potential to enhance privacy. Also, however, mixers have the potential to give nothing more than the illusion of privacy and highlight your transactions to governments and other nosy people.

I agree. Anyone who uses a mixer should consider that they might be a honeypot. And that's why it makes little sense for a real criminal to put these services above Monero and coinjoins, which are trustless.

There tends to be a good amount of coin that flows through the various mixers originating from criminal activity. This is why governments have employed resources into shutting down mixers and finding their operators.

I think most of the coins that flow through mixers are from petty scammers and signature spammers who are taking precautions to cover up their own shady activity in order for it to continue.  Not so much criminals trying to hide bank heists.  This is why I think the government has been reactive to mixers thus far.  Whenever a major theft in crypto takes place and is routed through a mixer, they go after the mixer and shut it down immediately.  This is how I was able to warn people about ChipMixer weeks before the shutdown happened.  It was very obvious...  Centralized solutions will obviously never solve the privacy problem.  People making claims otherwise do so because they're paid shills.  Period.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Governments are going after centralized mixers. I would question the legality of the government running a mixer as a 'honeypot' for more than a short period of time, although they can seize any logs the mixer was keeping, regardless of any public claims to the contrary.

Eh, depending on the mixer. For all we know, ChipMixer wasn't keeping logs. What's the point of keeping logs if you are not a honeypot?

I think most of the coins that flow through mixers are from petty scammers and signature spammers who are taking precautions to cover up their own shady activity in order for it to continue.

I had used ChipMixer to not reveal to my merchants that the funds come from signature campaigns. It costed zero, and it was fast. I'm pretty sure lots of other clients thought it this way.

Centralized solutions will obviously never solve the privacy problem.

But decentralized solutions will solve the "shady and criminal activity" problem... I'll never understand your perspective.

[OgNasty]

I think most of the coins that flow through mixers are from petty scammers and signature spammers who are taking precautions to cover up their own shady activity in order for it to continue.

I had used ChipMixer to not reveal to my merchants that the funds come from signature campaigns. It costed zero, and it was fast. I'm pretty sure lots of other clients thought it this way.

What do you think the merchants that receive funds from you marked to be from a mixer and possibly even from criminal activity think?  Your beliefs might be cute in your head, but when you're doing things that can get other people's businesses caught up in criminal investigations that doesn't make you a hero for privacy, it makes you an asshole.

Centralized solutions will obviously never solve the privacy problem.

But decentralized solutions will solve the "shady and criminal activity" problem... I'll never understand your perspective.

My perspective is that a privacy solution shouldn't setup someone to be investigated for accepting Bitcoin or land the service provider in jail while having all the service users' funds confiscated.  If all transactions are private, then we're all accepting the same consequences and fighting for privacy.  Your solution leaves the service provider and the unknowing recipient to take the fall for your privacy.  Again, not a hero fighting for privacy, a weasel that leaves others to take the fall for the sake of his privacy.  I don't want to support weasels, I want to fight for real privacy.

Good luck with finding a new signature after the 1st.  Hopefully then you'll stop shilling money laundering under the guise of privacy for a paycheck.

[BlackHatCoiner]

What do you think the merchants that receive funds from you marked to be from a mixer and possibly even from criminal activity think?

I think that we either treat each coin equally or this whole concept falls apart. Every coin is potentially originating from criminal activity. Merchants cannot expect from their customers to hire a (provably inaccurate) blockchain analysis firm to tell them if their coins are "clean".

If all transactions are private, then we're all accepting the same consequences and fighting for privacy.

So? Does that mean that until all transactions are private on a protocol level, everyone's forced to use bitcoin with ridiculous levels of privacy? Lol. As I said, I'll never understand your perspective.

[Bounty Bro]

What do you think the merchants that receive funds from you marked to be from a mixer and possibly even from criminal activity think?

I think that we either treat each coin equally or this whole concept falls apart. Every coin is potentially originating from criminal activity. Merchants cannot expect from their customers to hire a (provably inaccurate) blockchain analysis firm to tell them if their coins are "clean".

Okay, let's gooo:

Why Royse can't send all funds into a mixer,
mix it,
get untainted funds again
distribute remaining last week /Sinbad campaign/?

and send all remaining funds to a Bitcointalk faucet where each Bitcointalk member can get a little bit of it?

[new19980]

This doesnt make any sense even Bitcoin is used by criminals and terrorists so soon you will ban btc topics too xD

[cryptosize]

I think most of the coins that flow through mixers are from petty scammers and signature spammers who are taking precautions to cover up their own shady activity in order for it to continue.

I had used ChipMixer to not reveal to my merchants that the funds come from signature campaigns. It costed zero, and it was fast. I'm pretty sure lots of other clients thought it this way.

What do you think the merchants that receive funds from you marked to be from a mixer and possibly even from criminal activity think?  Your beliefs might be cute in your head, but when you're doing things that can get other people's businesses caught up in criminal investigations that doesn't make you a hero for privacy, it makes you an asshole.

Centralized solutions will obviously never solve the privacy problem.

But decentralized solutions will solve the "shady and criminal activity" problem... I'll never understand your perspective.

My perspective is that a privacy solution shouldn't setup someone to be investigated for accepting Bitcoin or land the service provider in jail while having all the service users' funds confiscated.  If all transactions are private, then we're all accepting the same consequences and fighting for privacy.  Your solution leaves the service provider and the unknowing recipient to take the fall for your privacy.  Again, not a hero fighting for privacy, a weasel that leaves others to take the fall for the sake of his privacy.  I don't want to support weasels, I want to fight for real privacy.

Good luck with finding a new signature after the 1st.  Hopefully then you'll stop shilling money laundering under the guise of privacy for a paycheck.

I agree wholeheartedly.

If people want true anonymity, they should migrate to Monero (#2 most popular cryptocurrency in some online stores, more popular than ETH). Bitcoin wasn't designed that way. I've been saying this for a loooong time, but nobody paid attention (if you know, you know).

And yes, I know that Satoshi had some thoughts about anonymity, but he never implemented ring signatures (unlike Monero which has them since day 1). Satoshi is gone, a hard fork will never happen (it would have been so much easier back in 2009-2010), so we're stuck with what we have.

I really don't like like it when a CEX gets "hacked" and someone uses mixers to launder BTC funds. Even if you don't use CEX to store funds (I don't), it hurts BTC's credibility in the Average Joe's eyes ("FTX went bankrupt, therefore BTC is a scam"). Do we really want that?

You may get non-traceable BTC after using a mixer, but it's NOT your BTC, it's someone else's BTC (innocent victims from crypto/CEX frauds such as FTX).

[arabspaceship123]

What you’re saying’s criminals & terrorists use bitcoin so why aren’t bitcoin topics banned. It’s a bitcoin forum so if we don’t post about bitcoin what topics are we going post on. Bitcoin topics won’t get banned but mixers will after theymos banned them the decision’s final.

This doesnt make any sense even Bitcoin is used by criminals and terrorists so soon you will ban btc topics too xD

[Nomads95]

You are breaking freedom and privacy law.  I'm banning your site in my house. Delete my account.