Mixer restrictions

[Shishir99]

Was eXch signature banned?

Only for Mods.

I didn't know that. Was there any public post about it from theymos regarding this ban? Or maybe the moderators informed that they are not allowed to wear the eXch signature? I am really surprised to know that the moderators were banned from wearing the eXch signature. I didn't know theymos feared that much. He thought the SEC would arrest him because of his staff wearing the mixer or eXch signature. What was he actually thinking? What the fuck is actually happening?

[LoyceV]

Was there any public post about it from theymos regarding this ban?

I don't think so.

Or maybe the moderators informed that they are not allowed to wear the eXch signature?

A Mod posted it, but I couldn't find back the post. Although it could have been "a strong suggestion" instead of a ban, I'm not sure. The result is probably the same.

I am really surprised to know that the moderators were banned from wearing the eXch signature.

It's not much of a surprise considering this:

There's a giant institution with guns out there which wants to destroy every centralized, destroyable component they can find related to privacy. Every centralized privacy service is at risk of being nuked from orbit at any moment, and you want to be nowhere near the strike zone.

(click for full context)

I didn't know theymos feared that much. He thought the SEC would arrest him because of his staff wearing the mixer or eXch signature. What was he actually thinking? What the fuck is actually happening?

You can speculate, but that's not going to help anyone. Fact is that Bitcointalk is still online after all those years, despite stirring up a lot of dust. Theymos must be doing something right

[examplens]

After noticing the Limbo exchange saga

There is another user who posted about a crypto exchange in the currency exchange board, and he was pretty straight forward about it around the same time. He said that they provided only one service, "cleaning dirty cryptocurrency" - whether due to enforcement action, sanctioned or others.

He didn't get much attention because they didn't attempt to do any signature

That member got his post deleted according to the mod log, but from the look of things, the pressure to fill in the gap left by other popular mixer services is on and it seems so lucrative. Interesting times.

This is very interesting, because one mixer also announced a few days ago that he had placed an escrow deposit on the same ^exploit forum, as that user claims.
If we already have two such cases in a short time, is this perhaps an indication that they are trying to circumvent the mixer ban rule, offering bitcoin mixing in the form of a p2p exchange? If the service had not been presented as "cleaning" Bitcoin, it might have been more difficult to recognize the nature of the service.

[NotATether]

It's clear the current administration is not at all concerned with stopping prosecution of those charged under mixing related charges.
The crypto lobby is Coinbase, Circle, Square et al. They couldn't give a single fuck about your rights. They'd rather see mixers crash and burn because it's something hurting their image and antithetical to how they operate.

For all I know, Samurai devs are still under prosecution based on the charges thrown at them by the previous administration. The only ones having their cases canceled by the Trump admin are big companies.

Exactly.

Money >>>>>>> Privacy for most people.

Funny enough, because mixers also have lots of money, yet nobody seems to care about pardoning them because I guess they are not popular enough in powerful circles.

Samurai devs actually pleaded guilty for some reason, so I would think that that would've stopped the prosecution but I guess it's continuing.

[MrNata]

Western countries are now trying to completely suppress Bitcoin mixers. Basically, using Bitcoin mixers, a user can send his Bitcoin to another party without any proof of transaction. Since there is no tension hash in this transaction or no proof of transaction, Western countries believe that criminals are able to do all kinds of criminal activities using this Bitcoin mixing. Not only Western countries, many European countries have taken several steps to completely suppress Bitcoin mixers. Although Bitcoin mixing has not been completely stopped yet and I think it will not be possible to completely suppress this Bitcoin mixing. Because if Bitcoin mixing is prohibited on the servers of one country, then all these mixer companies can easily complete these transactions using servers in other countries.

[JollyGood]

What nonsense are you spouting? Do members of the forum need a lecture from you in what seems to be less of a post related to the thread and more of an AI-style rant about something we do not need another lecture on.

It might be helpful if you had understood what was being discussed in the thread before posting. Do you have anything to add that is related to mixers being banned in the forum?

Western countries are now trying to completely suppress Bitcoin mixers. Basically, using Bitcoin mixers, a user can send his Bitcoin to another party without any proof of transaction. Since there is no tension hash in this transaction or no proof of transaction, Western countries believe that criminals are able to do all kinds of criminal activities using this Bitcoin mixing. Not only Western countries, many European countries have taken several steps to completely suppress Bitcoin mixers. Although Bitcoin mixing has not been completely stopped yet and I think it will not be possible to completely suppress this Bitcoin mixing. Because if Bitcoin mixing is prohibited on the servers of one country, then all these mixer companies can easily complete these transactions using servers in other countries.

[philipma1957]

Western countries are now trying to completely suppress Bitcoin mixers. Basically, using Bitcoin mixers, a user can send his Bitcoin to another party without any proof of transaction. Since there is no tension hash in this transaction or no proof of transaction, Western countries believe that criminals are able to do all kinds of criminal activities using this Bitcoin mixing. Not only Western countries, many European countries have taken several steps to completely suppress Bitcoin mixers. Although Bitcoin mixing has not been completely stopped yet and I think it will not be possible to completely suppress this Bitcoin mixing. Because if Bitcoin mixing is prohibited on the servers of one country, then all these mixer companies can easily complete these transactions using servers in other countries.

dude

09/11/2001

World Trade Center


that is why there is no mixing encouraged.


now is it fair to do this?  no

and I have to do a lot of legal moves to make privacy for myself.

and not do a mixer.

any country with a large city with tall sky scrapers has a vested interest in not having a new 911 event.

So selling the idea that no mixers makes it hard to move moneys is easy to do.

and Duba,i Singapore, Hanoi all are not western but would not want a 911 event to happen to one of their tall buildings.

So it goes beyond western fears

[Mrbluntzy]

Basically, using Bitcoin mixers, a user can send his Bitcoin to another party without any proof of transaction. Since there is no tension hash in this transaction or no proof of transaction,

This is not really true, there's no Bitcoin transaction without a proof of transaction and without transaction records. The way mixer works is that it will blend the funds of different users before redistribution, the process blocks the possibility of knowing the true owner or true origin of the coins on blockchain.
Also, from what I read, "Bitcoin mixer doesn't remove the transaction record from the public blockchain, but rather obscures the direct link between the initial sender and the final recipient, making it difficult for third parties to trace the coins back to the owner. "

[LoyceV]

09/11/2001
World Trade Center

I think it's safe to say this had nothing to do with mixing Bitcoin.

[ABCbits]

09/11/2001
World Trade Center

I think it's safe to say this had nothing to do with mixing Bitcoin.

I think he want to emphasize WTC collapse allow government to create Patriot Act which also cover money laundering in general[1]. Patriot Act supposed only last for few years, but managed to be prolonged until now. I also notice few media recently report Patriot Act will be extended to attack Bitcoin privacy, although none of them provide strong proof. But CMIIW.

[1] https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/terrorism-and-illicit-finance/311-actions

[fillippone]

Basically, using Bitcoin mixers, a user can send his Bitcoin to another party without any proof of transaction. Since there is no tension hash in this transaction or no proof of transaction,

This is not really true, there's no Bitcoin transaction without a proof of transaction and without transaction records. The way mixer works is that it will blend the funds of different users before redistribution, the process blocks the possibility of knowing the true owner or true origin of the coins on blockchain.
Also, from what I read, "Bitcoin mixer doesn't remove the transaction record from the public blockchain, but rather obscures the direct link between the initial sender and the final recipient, making it difficult for third parties to trace the coins back to the owner. "

I would like only to point out that there is nothing "linking" input and output UTXO in a transactions. It is only an eurishic tecniques linking all the transactions by nosy analytical software using a pseudoscience called "blockchain analysis".

[logfiles]

Or maybe the moderators informed that they are not allowed to wear the eXch signature?

A Mod posted it, but I couldn't find back the post. Although it could have been "a strong suggestion" instead of a ban, I'm not sure. The result is probably the same.

We (staff) were asked to stop advertising mixing services.

The post you are looking for is that one. They were asked to stop advertising mixers way before the mixer ban was announced. The staff at the time were still advertising other services such as eXch, Agoradesk etc. I don't think they were ever stopped from advertising eXch until their exit.

This is very interesting, because one mixer also announced a few days ago that he had placed an escrow deposit on the same ^exploit forum, as that user claims.
If we already have two such cases in a short time, is this perhaps an indication that they are trying to circumvent the mixer ban rule, offering bitcoin mixing in the form of a p2p exchange? If the service had not been presented as "cleaning" Bitcoin, it might have been more difficult to recognize the nature of the service.

Yeah, they are trying to circumvent the ban rule. The one posted just want smart enough. First of all the choice of username (FinCenter) and then the fact that he boosted about cleaning dirty crypto. Had he just come in as a no KYC exchange, we would never no. In fact, this has got me a bit worried in away that Admin may ban all No KYC exchanges in the forum in the near future.

[alani123]

09/11/2001
World Trade Center

I think it's safe to say this had nothing to do with mixing Bitcoin.

Laws that were passed after the Sept. 11 attacks and normalization wide ranging surveillance used against civilians are closely connected. It was like a domino effect.
This is not to say that terrorism justifies attacks on individual rights, but governments utilized the people's consciousness against them in this case.

It's a common tactic big interests use to also attack bitcoin. Think of the children or rather think of the would be victims of terrorism.
Clearly to them our freedoms must stop where it becomes hard to control us.

[philipma1957]

09/11/2001
World Trade Center

I think it's safe to say this had nothing to do with mixing Bitcoin.

I agree completely but when governments say mixers fund terrorists morons and sheeple believe the governments and agree to kyc.

[igebotz]

I agree completely but when governments say mixers fund terrorists morons and sheeple believe the governments and agree to kyc.

It's hard to defend mixers when 90% of the time they're just scammers waiting to exit on big orders. Cointor just did.

They keep digging their own graves and give the Govemment more leverage to maintain it stance against it.

[alani123]

I agree completely but when governments say mixers fund terrorists morons and sheeple believe the governments and agree to kyc.

It's hard to defend mixers when 90% of the time they're just scammers waiting to exit on big orders. Cointor just did.

They keep digging their own graves and give the Govemment more leverage to maintain it stance against it.

That and also mixers are trust-based.

The worst thing about mixers was that they often lied about logs and thus provided a false sense of security to their users.
Once caught, they'd just spill everything to the authorities. And what's to say even they weren't FBI honeypots to begin with?

Another reason mixers should remain banned is because trust-based services largely stain the image of bitcoin's p2p nature. Due to their marketing some people truly think they could "hide" the origin of transactions when really all they did was put a huge red dot on their users' heads.

While mixers are generally a bad idea to use, that doesn't take away from the fact that governments keep becoming more paranoid worldwide. Governments being authoritarian will just go after everything they can't control. Even decentralized mixing service developers were prosecuted for writing code on a network they can't control themselves.

[KingsDen]

I agree completely but when governments say mixers fund terrorists morons and sheeple believe the governments and agree to kyc.

It's hard to defend mixers when 90% of the time they're just scammers waiting to exit on big orders. Cointor just did.

They keep digging their own graves and give the Govemment more leverage to maintain it stance against it.

It's fucking annoying because it wasn't like this in the past. The CoinTor exit scam really broke my heart. I had thought that they came to stay and build reputation. But they exited asa they received 6 figures transaction. Mixers are doing shits among themselves, by consistently attacking one another to disrupt their business.

The fact is that if it's possible for mixers to fund terrorist morons, they could be doing it. There are bad guys everywhere using every available tool to achieve what they want.

[TryNinja]

People, anyone can create a mixer today with a plan to exit scam later. That doesn't mean mixers are a scam. Wth?

There will always be more bad actors than good ones, since you can spin a new website in an hour, multiples in a day.

Don't send too much at once, don't go trusting new ones immediately just because they seem legit, that's all.

Another reason mixers should remain banned is because trust-based services largely stain the image of bitcoin's p2p nature. Due to their marketing some people truly think they could "hide" the origin of transactions when really all they did was put a huge red dot on their users' heads.

Said someone with a centralized crypto betting website signature? Why aren't you advertising a decentralized p2p gambling website?

[hugeblack]

It's hard to defend mixers when 90% of the time they're just scammers waiting to exit on big orders. Cointor just did.

Historically, Mixer industry has not been associated with scam. Bitmixer, ChipMixer, and Bestmixer have operated for years without any scam. However, recently, due to increased demand for privacy and the ease of creating and promoting mixers (**compared to Bitcointalk** you can launch a successful promotional campaign for less than $10,000), scam has become easier.

[alani123]

Another reason mixers should remain banned is because trust-based services largely stain the image of bitcoin's p2p nature. Due to their marketing some people truly think they could "hide" the origin of transactions when really all they did was put a huge red dot on their users' heads.

Said someone with a centralized crypto betting website signature? Why aren't you advertising a decentralized p2p gambling website?

Man, it's not personal. Signature jobs don't prohibit anyone from having an opinion.
Yes, I think the mere existence of centralised mixers is ironic and the history of arrests has proven users of such services aren't safe.

At least playing at a casino won't land you in jail for being linked to illicit activity. Casinos don't aim to attract this kind of crowd. Their marketing is much more straightforward: deposit & play. Not that gambling is the most ethical thing in the world but to each their own. In my book mixers are much more deceptive.