Wasabi Wallet - Open Source, Noncustodial Coinjoin Software

[Wind_FURY]

Well, speaking about operating in Russia, its elimination didn't take so long 

https://cryptobriefing.com/russia-crypto-ban-reinforce-ruble/

If that's actually true, then someone should tell Putin that his subjects are wrong to ban Bitcoin UNLESS they're not going to lead by example. Because what actually could fix Russia's problems, that are caused by sanctions, is actually Bitcoin. It was built for that kind of censorship - financial censorship.

The ban will be a legal pretext for greater financial control of the population and eventual confiscation of cryptocurrencies. I don't see here that there was anything different compared to everything that the US government and the SEC do. They do this without a publicly declared ban, so it appears that there is freedom when using Bitcoin.

I believe, from the Bitcoin network's viewpoint, that it's better for them to impose an absolute ban. But they probably know that that will take part in Bitcoin's core function, and main value proposition - Censorship-Resistance. Haha. There might be some politicians that have gotten smarter and deeper about their understanding of Bitcoin over the years.

[Bitcoin_Arena]

>>snip<<

I am still surprised you trust these politicians and Governments that will do anything to stay a float and try to control their people, or should we say flock? Politicians will follow any trend so long as it benefits them and feeds their greed. Once they have taken a grip of their people, they will ban whatever they think is no longer useful to them.

When at war, I see some countries resorting to being crypto-friendly by accepting crypto donations and also transactions to bypass the sanctions to survive, but once things are much better. All they think about is banning the same cryptocurrencies that saved their asses. 

[BlackHatCoiner]

So I'd argue that developers also have an obligation to themselves to try and do their best not to get rekt by feds.

You either work for a privacy solution, or you don't. If you're afraid the governments will be hostile to you, then don't work on a privacy service, or do it anonymously (like Monero development). It'd be completely reasonable and respectable. But, you can't have the cake and eat it too. Wasabi should either be "unfairly private" or shut their operations down. The path Wasabi chose was to lie in bed with the enemy, turn pro-censorship, anti-fungibility and sell out their users in general. To me that is unethical for a business of that kind.

[alani123]

You either work for a privacy solution, or you don't. If you're afraid the governments will be hostile to you, then don't work on a privacy service, or do it anonymously (like Monero development). It'd be completely reasonable and respectable. But, you can't have the cake and eat it too. Wasabi should either be "unfairly private" or shut their operations down. The path Wasabi chose was to lie in bed with the enemy, turn pro-censorship, anti-fungibility and sell out their users in general. To me that is unethical for a business of that kind.

I'd say that not all software development needs to follow the same style. Yes a community oriented approach to software development would be ideal for a wallet. But since when is the bitcoin community ready to fund development for privacy wallets and services? There isn't even much if any community funding for Bitcoin Core development itself. Those that care and depend on privacy could recognize their responsibility and take up this initiative. But until then, does it make it right to bring up moralistic arguments and say that Wasabi should shut down because it could be done better?

Respectfully, I'd say let's see it. Wasabi devs are kind enough to publish documented code under the MIT license. If anyone thinks they can do better they can! Will they receive the community's support though? That's a tough bet.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Yes a community oriented approach to software development would be ideal for a wallet.

Just because a company does not fund the enemy and sell out their users, it doesn't mean its development must be community oriented. Samourai Wallet is a good example of a company that respected the fundamentals of Bitcoin and privacy without laying in bed with a blockchain surveillance firm.

But until then, does it make it right to bring up moralistic arguments and say that Wasabi should shut down because it could be done better?

I believe I have the right to pinpoint where I see suspicious activity. If a privacy-proclaimed company starts going in the opposite direction, people will stop using it. So, it's a matter of time until it goes out of business.

(Even though, at the draconian times we live in, every privacy-enhancing company will eventually shut down; ethical or not)

[Kruw]

You either work for a privacy solution, or you don't. If you're afraid the governments will be hostile to you, then don't work on a privacy service, or do it anonymously (like Monero development). It'd be completely reasonable and respectable. But, you can't have the cake and eat it too. Wasabi should either be "unfairly private" or shut their operations down. The path Wasabi chose was to lie in bed with the enemy, turn pro-censorship, anti-fungibility and sell out their users in general. To me that is unethical for a business of that kind.

Hey SCAMMER, did you really think you were going to post on this thread again without apologizing for getting everyone's coins stolen and data exposed? If you think it's so "unethical" then explain why you promoted a custodian that uses chain analysis to confiscate your coins "at any time at its own discretion, with or without reasons, with or without notification assuming no responsibility whatsoever."?

No. I'd explain to them that it is trustless in the sense that thousands of people smarter than both of us have reviewed the code, none of which has reached to a conclusion that Bitcoin does not do what it says it does. If lots of people suddenly reported losing coins from their Bitcoin wallet, I'd absolutely not recommend that piece of software regardless if its source code was free to study or not.

I would absolutely not invite them to study an entire repository, line-by-line, to validate such a thing. Just as I wouldn't invite anyone to study the design of a car and its manufacturer's infrastructure, if their cars were caught to suddenly explode. I would simply stuck to not recommending cars that are said to explode.

If you stick to recommending cars that don't explode, then why did you recommend Chipmixer? Why did you recommend Whirlwind? Why did you recommend Whirlpool?

I'll agree with Lucius here. I presume ChipMixer is very cautious when it comes to protecting their own privacy too. They probably write code, build the site, talk to us in this forum - all via anonymity-focused Internet solutions such as Tor or i2p. If I was running such mixer, I'd be sure I'd sooner or later have authorities stick their nose into my business.

Is there a chance some really big shit is going on in their lives, and they are incapable of going online? For like... A month? I really can't believe this is an exit scam. The service seemed legitimate.

I'm really pissed off, and not because I lost money; fortunately, I had grasped that "don't leave coins to third parties" cliché. I'm so pissed off because I've been advertising and recommending this shit for months, in such a way that I'm practically part of this scam. And it's just feels awful.

It makes you question the integrity of the service you're currently carrying in your signature.

You lured people into EVERY SINGLE ONE of these rugpulls, yet, you spent years deliberately lying about Wasabi, which is TRUSTLESS SOFTWARE.

While you were attacking trustless open source software, you promoted Mixtum who said they explicitly perform blockchain analysis on their users and confiscate their users coins "at any time at its own discretion, with or without reasons, with or without notification assuming no responsibility whatsoever."

3. Quality scoring of incoming transactions
We run a thorough background check of incoming funds through a proprietary algorithm.

2.1. Privacy Policy

Please refer to our Privacy Policy to get an understanding of our confidentiality obligations. You consent to the collection and use of information as described in the Privacy Policy.

2.2 Suspension or termination of services

[banned mixer] reserves the right to suspend or terminate access to services at any time at its own discretion, with or without reasons, with or without notification assuming no responsibility whatsoever.

For example, services may be suspended or terminated due to the following reasons:

    an actual or suspected violation of these Terms and Conditions;
    use of the service in such a manner that is conducive to the legal liability of [banned mixer] or Service malfunction;
    planned or unplanned maintenance, etc.

2.3 Unacceptable use

You agree that you personally will not commit, encourage or support the committal of:

    use of any unauthorized means to access the [banned mixer] service or use of any automated process or service (for example, spider, crawler or periodic caching of information stored or generated by [banned mixer]) except for the functions described in our API, as well as distribution of instructions, software or tools with this aim in view;
    modification, change, distortion or any other interference in work of the [banned mixer] service;
    disturbing or interference in operation of servers or networks used by [banned mixer] to deliver the Services;
    disabling, overload or degradation of [banned mixer] performance (or any other network connected to the service);
    use of the [banned mixer] service or website for any other purposes other than those specifically provided by these Terms and Privacy Policy;
    any illegal or fraudulent activity, as well as use of this Service in order to legalize illegal income, financing of terrorism, participation in schemes of phishing, forgery or other such falsification or manipulation;
    unauthorized spamming, pyramid schemes or any other activity duplicating unwanted messages should they be commercially oriented or of other nature.

2.4 Service updates

At any time and at its absolute discretion [banned mixer] can carry out unscheduled works related to the service modification, update and enhancement. We are liable to add or remove functions and cease activities of the service and website.
2.5 License and restrictions

[banned mixer] provides you with a personal nontransferable nonexclusive license to use the Service as it is stipulated for you by [banned mixer]. This license is provided under conditions and restricted to the provisions, stipulations and constraints stated in these Terms. Therewith, such license is intended for personal, noncommercial use. You may not copy, modify, create a derivative work of, decompile or otherwise attempt to extract the source code of the service or any part thereof, exclusive of data permitted by law, or expressly allowed by the [banned mixer] platform (use of templates, API, etc.). You may not reassign (or grant a sublicense of) your rights to use the service, or otherwise transfer any part of your rights in accordance with these Terms. These Rules do not provide you with any license or permission to copy, distribute, change or otherwise use any applications programming interface despite any provisions to the contrary. No property rights or ownership rights related to the Service are not granted to you according to these Terms. [banned mixer] reserves all rights that have not been expressly granted.

You are a traitor to Bitcoin's mission of self custody. You are an enemy of privacy. And most of all, you are a SCAMMER. Fuck off of this thread and start focusing on paying back the people who had their money stolen by the services you partnered with.

Pay back your victims BlackHatCoiner. You betrayed Satoshi's gift of self custody.

[BlackHatCoiner]

If you want to accuse me for scamming, there's the Reputation and the Scam Accusations boards. What I have promoted in my signature is beyond the subject of this thread, so please stop resorting to it if you don't have anything to say in defense of Wasabi.

[alani123]

But until then, does it make it right to bring up moralistic arguments and say that Wasabi should shut down because it could be done better?

I believe I have the right to pinpoint where I see suspicious activity. If a privacy-proclaimed company starts going in the opposite direction, people will stop using it. So, it's a matter of time until it goes out of business.

(Even though, at the draconian times we live in, every privacy-enhancing company will eventually shut down; ethical or not)

There's no wrong in pointing out what you believe is right. At least in my book. But hey, one has got to wonder, why is there an apparent lack of bitcoin privacy solutions?
The technology exists, someone has to keep running it though. Or better yet develop something better. If better solutions can exist elsewhere why aren't more people supporting them with funding and dev time?
Under these conditions I'm just appreciative of what we have, especially realizing what risks any btc privacy devs are taking.

For instance, Monero's community funds its own development. Bitcoiners don't care to do the same? And if there's something better for privacy, ok, great. But I think criticism also has to be directed at the community as a whole for not being more supportive other than just some privacy devs over other ones.

[Kruw]

If you want to accuse me for scamming, there's the reputation board. What I have promoted in my signature is beyond the subject of this thread, so please stop resorting to it if you don't have anything to say in defense of Wasabi.

It's not beyond the subject of this thread, you posted saying you stick with "tested, peer-reviewed software, running in a decentralized fashion, and avoid pro-censorship and anti-fungibility software which is subjected to arbitrary ethic rules":

Now that you have confirmed the answer to your question was "No", answer my original question:

Not yet. I haven't done my analysis to this. I generally don't spend hours on verifying every privacy-preserving software. I just stick with tested, peer-reviewed software, running in a decentralized fashion, and avoid pro-censorship and anti-fungibility software which is subjected to arbitrary ethic rules, and whose developers outright lie in front of me. It's a good life choice, and it has worked so far without issues.

This was a LIE. You told this lie so you could SCAM PEOPLE. You BACKSTABBED SATOSHI.

Is there a chance some really big shit is going on in their lives, and they are incapable of going online? For like... A month? I really can't believe this is an exit scam. The service seemed legitimate.

I'm really pissed off, and not because I lost money; fortunately, I had grasped that "don't leave coins to third parties" cliché. I'm so pissed off because I've been advertising and recommending this shit for months, in such a way that I'm practically part of this scam. And it's just feels awful.

It makes you question the integrity of the service you're currently carrying in your signature.

[cryptosize]

Well, speaking about operating in Russia, its elimination didn't take so long 

https://cryptobriefing.com/russia-crypto-ban-reinforce-ruble/

If that's actually true, then someone should tell Putin that his subjects are wrong to ban Bitcoin UNLESS they're not going to lead by example. Because what actually could fix Russia's problems, that are caused by sanctions, is actually Bitcoin. It was built for that kind of censorship - financial censorship.

To understand the Russian government's viewpoint, they should ban Bitcoin and other forms of currencies from public use to maintain the value of their currency to avoid currency collapse and therefore avoid economic collapse. BUT their government should probably be HODLing Bitcoin, and treat it like it's Gold.

Gold to pay for the war, and use Bitcoin if everything else fails.

"Russian government subsidizes crypto mining facility in Siberia

The facility, which opens this year, will possess 30,000 crypto mining machines, hire 100 workers and consume 100 megawatts from the power grid."

https://cointelegraph.com/news/russian-government-subsidies-crypto-mining-facility-in-siberia

I bet it's not Scrypt.

[cryptosize]

But until then, does it make it right to bring up moralistic arguments and say that Wasabi should shut down because it could be done better?

I believe I have the right to pinpoint where I see suspicious activity. If a privacy-proclaimed company starts going in the opposite direction, people will stop using it. So, it's a matter of time until it goes out of business.

(Even though, at the draconian times we live in, every privacy-enhancing company will eventually shut down; ethical or not)

There's no wrong in pointing out what you believe is right. At least in my book. But hey, one has got to wonder, why is there an apparent lack of bitcoin privacy solutions?
The technology exists, someone has to keep running it though. Or better yet develop something better. If better solutions can exist elsewhere why aren't more people supporting them with funding and dev time?
Under these conditions I'm just appreciative of what we have, especially realizing what risks any btc privacy devs are taking.

For instance, Monero's community funds its own development. Bitcoiners don't care to do the same? And if there's something better for privacy, ok, great. But I think criticism also has to be directed at the community as a whole for not being more supportive other than just some privacy devs over other ones.

Monero is like OpenBSD: a niche UNIX distro that is secure by default (whether you like it or not).

Linux on the other hand needs optional stuff like SELinux and even in that case, I doubt it can reach OpenBSD's paranoid level of security.

If you got the analogy, then you get my point.

We have to accept Bitcoin for what it is (Satoshi had thought about implementing ring signatures, but maybe he didn't have enough time/expertise or maybe he lacked the willpower to make it private by default/piss off the governments and/or enforce a hard fork/piss off the community, we'll never know!).

BTC will ALWAYS require external software/entities (mixers) to become somewhat private and even in that case, you're at the mercy of governments, since those entities are usually centralized and thus prone to shut down.

Bitcoin for savings, Monero for spending seems like a good enough tradeoff if you ask me.

But if you're one of those Bitcoin maxis that believe Monero is a "shitcoin", then I don't know what to tell you.

[NotATether]

You either work for a privacy solution, or you don't. If you're afraid the governments will be hostile to you, then don't work on a privacy service, or do it anonymously (like Monero development). It'd be completely reasonable and respectable. But, you can't have the cake and eat it too. Wasabi should either be "unfairly private" or shut their operations down. The path Wasabi chose was to lie in bed with the enemy, turn pro-censorship, anti-fungibility and sell out their users in general. To me that is unethical for a business of that kind.

Hey SCAMMER, did you really think you were going to post on this thread again without apologizing for getting everyone's coins stolen and data exposed? If you think it's so "unethical" then explain why you promoted a custodian that uses chain analysis to confiscate your coins "at any time at its own discretion, with or without reasons, with or without notification assuming no responsibility whatsoever."?

I think the "scammer" around here is you. One of these days, zkSNACKs is going to be coughing up suspicious UTXOs to the authorities that's going to lead to a couple arrests, of good or bad people, all because your project proclaims a false sense of privacy.

If we are going to be calling promoters scammers now then I think this is fair game.

[Kruw]

I think the scammer around here is you.

How am I a scammer?

One of these days, zkSNACKs is going to be coughing up suspicious UTXOs to the authorities that's going to lead to a couple arrests, of good or bad people, all because your project proclaims a false sense of "privacy".

If we are going to be calling promoters scammers now then I think this is fair game.

zkSNACKS doesn't have anything to cough up because Wasabi is completely private. You are the only person who has access to your own data, we already covered this:

Literally days after you were yapping about redemption for Samourai collecting xpubs, now your wallet is collecting Personal Identifying Information itself. Will it be enough to save it? Probably not.

Unlike Samourai which records all of their users' financial activity by default, Wasabi does not collect any personally identifying information whatsoever:

=========================================
II. PRIVACY POLICY
=========================================

    This policy describes the ways zkSNACKs collects, stores, uses and protects personal information. The purpose of this policy is to ensure that zkSNACKs complies with applicable European Union (EU) and other statutory data protection laws and regulations, and ensures that users are provided privacy protection.
    Data protection laws are generally relevant in case any processing of personal data is concerned. The terms used within the scope of this data protection declaration are defined in and by the General Data Protection Regulation of the European Union. As such, the wide definition of "processing" of personal data means any operation or set of operations performed on personal data.

Personally Identifiable Information
===================================

    “Personally identifiable information” (“personal information”) is any information that can be directly associated with a specific person and can be used to identify that person. A prime example of identifiable information is a person’s name.

Handling Information
====================

   Since we are working on privacy, and our mission is to regain personal privacy, our Services are designed to be used without indication of any personal data. For this reason we do not have any kind of data collecting solutions built into our products. There may only be one personal data processing in our Service, for customer support in case of technical problems: visitors may, indicate their email addresses voluntarily to get notifications in case of any potential technical problems or other inquiries. These e-mail addresses are solely used to answer users’ questions and are erased after 100 days. In this case, the processing of the data is based on a freely given consent to Article 6 (1) (a) of the GDPR and is aimed at the effective handling of the complaint.
    We use GitHub as the main platform for users’ technical questions and issues, and we do not retain any data that can be subsequently identified / associated with the user.
   We expressly declare that we do not manage or store any other personally identifiable information.
    By visiting the Website and using our Services, You agree with this policy, in accordance with Section 1.2 of the Terms and Conditions

All User Information is Confidential
====================================

   Because we cannot link Your wallet and Your personal information (such as Your name and IP address) provided under the Service, Your personal information is safe and cannot be accessed by our staff or third parties.
    zkSNACKs will protect processed data in the customer Service process adequately against unauthorized access (of third parties) in accordance with the provisions of the legal framework of Republic of Seychelles. We will only process data which are essential to provide our Services. Data will not be used or stored by other means than set out in this document and are made accessible only to a restricted and necessary number of persons. We do not transfer any personal data to third parties.
    All employees of zkSNACKs have been informed about applicable data protection provisions as well as data security measures and are bound to our privacy practices. All staff are bound by confidentiality agreements.

Use of Cookies
==============

    A cookie is a small piece of data that a website asks Your browser to store on Your computer or mobile device. The cookie allows the website to “remember” Your actions or preferences over time.
   We expressly declare that we do not use cookies.

You can verify for yourself that Wasabi provides completely trustless privacy since every single line of code is open source: https://github.com/zkSnacks/WalletWasabi

[BlackHatCoiner]

But hey, one has got to wonder, why is there an apparent lack of bitcoin privacy solutions?

Because of two reasons.

• Working on a privacy service puts you in danger.
• It is very difficult to gain privacy in Bitcoin. No ring signatures and no confidential transactions, that's already a major disadvantage. Coinjoin can help, but since there are strong privacy technologies implemented elsewhere which can't be introduced in Bitcoin without a softfork, it discourages development further.

Under these conditions I'm just appreciative of what we have, especially realizing what risks any btc privacy devs are taking.

Laying in bed with the enemy is not worthy of respect. I don't get why it's so difficult to understand that.

It's not beyond the subject of this thread, you posted saying you stick with "tested, peer-reviewed software, running in a decentralized fashion, and avoid pro-censorship and anti-fungibility software which is subjected to arbitrary ethic rules"

And that's what I do. I no longer use mixers, mainly because I don't want to hand over custody. I have no problem directing to such services, if you're fine with putting some trust to the people behind it.

According to your reasoning, people should be forbidden from recommending VPNs, because they have said they use Tor to browse anonymously. According to my reasoning, people have the freedom to choose after they've studied the cons and pros of each.

[Kruw]

https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-is-discontinuing-its-coinjoin-coordination-service-1st-of-june/

[dkbit98]

https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-is-discontinuing-its-coinjoin-coordination-service-1st-of-june/

Totally expected.
RIP Wasabi.

Many of you guys (including kruw) wasted so much precious time arguing and fighting each other for months and years, and you don't understand that we all have the common enemy.
Things are more serious than people think and they will soon start to knock on doors because you said, wrote or did something years ago.
Wasabi devs should not think they wont be arrested just because you stopped doing coinjoin after Samourai devs got arrested.

[bitmover]

https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-is-discontinuing-its-coinjoin-coordination-service-1st-of-june/

This decision was made after careful consideration and with a heavy heart. Throughout our history, we have always made efforts to operate under legal clarity. At this point, we need to regain more certainty before moving forward.

Sad to see this. Looks like wasabi/zkSNACKs are afraid of legal problems similar to samourai.

I am happy to see wasabi will continue to work and to be funded by zkSNACKs. I hope you can implement lightning, swaps or some other stuff to make money and keep the good service.

[Z-tight]

After Samourai was taken down, i saw that some users were already saying Wasabi was next, it didn't take long and they didn't wait for the government to knock on their doors, so they decided to stop their CoinJoin service.

Things are more serious than people think and they will soon start to knock on doors because you said, wrote or did something years ago.

I agree with you, and with every privacy solution and services that gets taken down or quits their operation, the more i believe that Theymos was right with the decision he took on banning mixers in the forum, in order to 'protect' this platform from the government.

[Kruw]

Totally expected.
RIP Wasabi.

Many of you guys (including kruw) wasted so much precious time arguing and fighting each other for months and years, and you don't understand that we all have the common enemy.

None of my time was wasted. I am proud of every Bitcointalk user I prevented from losing their coins and leaking their data to the custodial mixing scams promoted here by o_e_l_e_o, BlackHatCoiner, Pmalek, and others.

Wasabi is the way forward. Now, more than ever, the Bitcoin community has to rally around it and let the coinjoins continue to flow.

[satscraper]

I have never used CoinJoin believing that it creates illusion of improved privacy and at the same time  jeopardies  my bitcoin  stash.

Nevertheless, I regret to witness such developments relevant to this technique as it is not certain now that other ones will be not harmstrung by policy.

Are we already in nineteen eighty four?