Wasabi Wallet - Open Source, Noncustodial Coinjoin Software

[Kruw]

Privacy is your ability to selectively reveal yourself to the world. - [Cyperpunk Manifesto]

Official download ➥  https://github.com/zkSNACKs/WalletWasabi/releases/tag/v2.0.7.1
Onion link ➥ http://wasabiukrxmkdgve5kynjztuovbg43uxcbcxn6y2okcrsg7gb6jdmbad.onion/
Open source code ➥ https://github.com/zkSnacks/WalletWasabi
PGP (software verification guide) ➥ 6FB3 872B 5D42 292F 5992 0797 8563 4832 8949 861E

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Wasabi provides network level privacy
Other light wallets sacrifice your privacy in exchange for speed by leaking all of the addresses in your wallet to a third party server. This third party server also is able to see the IP address your wallet connects from, which can provide them even more data to tie your Bitcoin addresses to your identity.  

We live in an Orwellian surveillance society where your information is being used to typecast and manipulate you. Bitcoin projects are being pressured to collect more and more data, if possible. This is why Wasabi Wallet is programmed to be a zero-knowledge software. Developers can't collect any sensitive information about you. What you do with your Bitcoin is your business.

Wasabi innovates on the light wallet design and solves these privacy leaks by masking your wallet addresses with client side block filters, and masking your IP address with Tor. Although combining these two technologies this reduces the privacy footprint for receivers to a single address, the addresses are still visible on a public ledger, so another step must be taken to hide the origin of the coins you received from the destination you send them to, and vice versa. This traceability is broken by coinjoins.

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Wasabi provides blockchain level privacy
WabiSabi research paper (Ádám Ficsór, Yuval Kogman, Lucas Ontivero, and István András Seres): https://eprint.iacr.org/2021/206.pdf

Wasabi's most impressive privacy feature is the ability to participate in coinjoin transactions. A coinjoin combines your coins non custodially into a bulk transaction with other users in order to make your Bitcoins untraceable.  The outputs of a coinjoin can't be tracked to the inputs because the outputs created have identical clones with the *exact* same value. Even the coinjoin coordinator themselves cannot determine which inputs and outputs belong to each participant:

The whole WabiSabi protocol is a really complex beast which involves a lot of cryptography from Pedersen commitments, zk-proofs, balance proofs, range proofs, ownership proofs, a strobe construction around Keccak and others that play together to create the credentials system. The protocol involves the construction of http messages that have to be sent to the central coordinator in a randomized schedule under different Tor identities to guarantee the unlinkability of the participants' transactions against the central coordinator.

Here's an example of a Coinjoin transaction on mainnet with 400 inputs and 407 outputs: https://mempool.space/tx/d465033214fd2309dcce5a90c45fcaa788aa4394ee36debe07aad8d8a37907d2

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There is a cost tradeoff for using the optional coinjoin feature.  Participating in a coinjoin transaction will always cost a miner transaction fee, and may cost a one-time 0.3% coordinator fee, depending on the value and origin of the input you are registering.  The following inputs do not pay any coordinator fees:

- Any inputs with a value of 1 million sats (0.01 BTC) or lower
- Any outputs from a coinjoin that you remix for additional privacy
- Any change from spending inputs that were already coinjoined
- Any coins sent to you by other Wasabi Wallet users that were already coinjoined

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Cold storage interface
Wasabi also allows you to connect your USB hardware wallet such as BitBox02, Coldcard, Jade, Ledger, or Trezor.

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Reputation for innovation
Wasabi Wallet was awarded a share of Bitcointalk's longstanding coinjoin development bounty, along with JoinMarket:

Congratulations to the Wasabi and JoinMarket developers! JoinMarket pioneered a lot of CoinJoin science (and BTW, belcher wrote an excellent & comprehensive wiki article on privacy), while Wasabi is the first wallet that implements CoinJoin in both a highly-usable and sound way. As both a signer and a donor to the CoinJoin bounty fund, I'm thrilled that these two pieces of software exist!

For everyone looking to improve their privacy, I highly recommend checking out Wasabi, especially over centralized "mixers".

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Official Wasabi social network channels:

                                               

[1715264203]

1715264203

[Pmalek]

Try to stay on topic and avoid posting nonsense to avoid having your topic achieved and locked by the admin team again. It should be in your best interest.

Cold storage interface
If you initially set up your hardware wallet using Wasabi as the front end instead of the default Ledger Live or Trezor Suite apps, it will prevent your IP address and Bitcoin wallet addresses from being leaked to Ledger's & Trezor's servers.

On a serious note. How would this work?
You need Ledger Live during the onboarding process and initial setup. You need to install the crypto apps on the wallet. I guess the software already records everything it needs/wants at that stage. Trezors are shipped with no firmware installed on the devices, but I guess you can get all that from their GitHub. Can you install Ledger apps including the 3rd-party apps from their GitHub as well and set everything up through Wasabi?

[Kruw]

Try to stay on topic and avoid posting nonsense to avoid having your topic achieved and locked by the admin team again. It should be in your best interest.

The ridiculous petition was locked, I didn't start that topic.

On a serious note. How would this work?
You need Ledger Live during the onboarding process and initial setup. You need to install the crypto apps on the wallet. I guess the software already records everything it needs/wants at that stage. Trezors are shipped with no firmware installed on the devices, but I guess you can get all that from their GitHub. Can you install Ledger apps including the 3rd-party apps from their GitHub as well and set everything up through Wasabi?

I don't recommend Ledger generally since it's closed source, so you trust them completely.

[NotATether]

Try to stay on topic and avoid posting nonsense to avoid having your topic achieved and locked by the admin team again. It should be in your best interest.

To be fair, it was not a moderator or admin, the OP of the previous topic is still in a deranged mood and locking all his topics.

[Pmalek]

The ridiculous petition was locked, I didn't start that topic.

I wasn't talking about that one. It got achieved and locked a few days ago. I meant the Wasabi thread with over 50 pages. But I see now that the OP went on a locking and deletion spree for whatever reason. 

I don't recommend Ledger generally since it's closed source, so you trust them completely.

I am aware of that. You mentioned in your OP the initial setup going through Wasabi and I asked how and in what way? Has Wasabi created a tutorial for it?

To be fair, it was not a moderator or admin, the OP of the previous topic is still in a deranged mood and locking all his topics.

I think the petition thread was locked by the staff. The last post in it was from achow101 who told everyone to chill. After that it was locked but not achieved. Any idea what's going on with Symmetrick and why he is destroyig all of his threads?

[Kruw]

I am aware of that. You mentioned in your OP the initial setup going through Wasabi and I asked how and in what way? Has Wasabi created a tutorial for it?

I guess I can't say for certain because I've never used Ledger, I've only used Trezor and Coldcard.  Ledger claims that your xpub is never sent to their servers, but I think the 20 addresses within your gap limit is - https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360011069619-Extended-public-key-xPub-?docs=true

Thanks for the feedback.  I'll remove the claim from the OP since Ledger is closed source anyways and you have no guarantees about what they are doing with your private or public keys. 

[BlackHatCoiner]

Any idea what's going on with Symmetrick and why he is destroyig all of his threads?

Probably has to do with this: Should Ratimov aka Symmetrick be in DT1?. Let's not derail Wasabi's thread regarding that.

[Pmalek]

I guess I can't say for certain because I've never used Ledger, I've only used Trezor and Coldcard.

OK. Do you care to share some feedback about the initial onboarding process with a Trezor through Wasabi instead of the Trezor Suite?

Ledger claims that your xpub is never sent to their servers, but I think the 20 addresses within your gap limit is - https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360011069619-Extended-public-key-xPub-?docs=true

Ledger Live is open-source. Those who know how to could check that. I don't personally believe that Ledger or Trezor don't have knowledge of your master public keys and that those keys don't interact with their servers. At least with the Trezor Suite it can go through TOR. I don't think it's possible with LL. 

[ABCbits]

Reputation for innovation
Wasabi Wallet was awarded a share of Bitcointalk's longstanding coinjoin development bounty, along with JoinMarket:

Congratulations to the Wasabi and JoinMarket developers! JoinMarket pioneered a lot of CoinJoin science (and BTW, belcher wrote an excellent & comprehensive wiki article on privacy), while Wasabi is the first wallet that implements CoinJoin in both a highly-usable and sound way. As both a signer and a donor to the CoinJoin bounty fund, I'm thrilled that these two pieces of software exist!

Here are additional context about the bounty for other readers,
1. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.msg2983911#msg2983911.
2. It's awarded when only Wasabi Wallet version 1 exist, before controversy of Wasabi Wallet/zkSNACKs exist.

[nopara73]

Wasabi earned the coinjoin bounty prior to the existence of its 2.0 version, which far exceeds what was seen in 1.0

[Kruw]

OK. Do you care to share some feedback about the initial onboarding process with a Trezor through Wasabi instead of the Trezor Suite?

Yes, the original text I wrote is now deprecated since Trezor has introduced native hardware wallet coinjoins directly through Suite earlier this year.  This separate coinjoin account in Suite uses a new xpub that only communicates with Tor and block filters, just like Wasabi does.

Ledger Live is open-source. Those who know how to could check that. I don't personally believe that Ledger or Trezor don't have knowledge of your master public keys and that those keys don't interact with their servers. At least with the Trezor Suite it can go through TOR. I don't think it's possible with LL.  

But Ledger's firmware is closed source, so you don't know if the key material was compromised before you even got your hands on the device.

[Kruw]

Ready for the coinjoin of the week? 30 BTC feels like a lot more than it used to... https://mempool.space/tx/f3d4ea873616b086959432f0b0797ca68ff7dacd5f4b8d27c707132b3dbb6c9e

Number of inputs: 333
Number of outputs: 326
Value: 30.54013805 BTC
Fee rate: 40.49 sats/vbyte
Input anonset: 3.78
Output anonset: 8.15

[Wind_FURY]

Kruw, nopara73, Wasabi, I have one question. It might currently not be a real concern, but it could be something of an issue if more and more people CoinJoin through Wasabi, and therefore with that, more and more "false positives" also happen.

How do we refute that an "alert" is a "false positive"? Because the blockchain analysis company could always claim that a "true positive" is proof of the reliability of the system, while a "false negative" could be used to claim that the company should set up tighter filters.

I believe that's something that the developers, and the community, could get together and work on.

[Kruw]

Kruw, nopara73, Wasabi, I have one question. It might currently not be a real concern, but it could be something of an issue if more and more people CoinJoin through Wasabi, and therefore with that, more and more "false positives" also happen.

How do we refute that an "alert" is a "false positive"? Because the blockchain analysis company could always claim that a "true positive" is proof of the reliability of the system, while a "false negative" could be used to claim that the company should set up tighter filters.

I believe that's something that the developers, and the community, could get together and work on.

I suppose you could always voluntarily disclose where/how funds were obtained if you think a false positive ban has occurred.  The ban might not be lifted, but this feedback may help indicate that wallet clustering heuristics are being applied too aggressively.

[NotATether]

I suppose you could always voluntarily disclose where/how funds were obtained if you think a false positive ban has occurred.  The ban might not be lifted, but this feedback may help indicate that wallet clustering heuristics are being applied too aggressively.

How can this information be fed into the clustering algorithm to make it more precise?

This might be one of the challenges that is impeding the development of the banning software, since I'm pretty sure you'd be feeding transaction chains into a neural network, and the only way to take this information into account would be by adjusting weights, but that's assuming the clustering is using NNs in the first place.

[DaveF]

This is not just about Wasabi but any service relying on TOR for security.
Just keep in mind, you are relying on the fact that the TOR exit node you are using is actually not malicious / monitoring what you are doing.

https://therecord.media/thousands-of-tor-exit-nodes-attacked-cryptocurrency-users-over-the-past-year

Just something to keep in the back of your head.

-Dave

[Kruw]

How can this information be fed into the clustering algorithm to make it more precise?

An exception would have to be entered manually, I would assume.

This might be one of the challenges that is impeding the development of the banning software, since I'm pretty sure you'd be feeding transaction chains into a neural network, and the only way to take this information into account would be by adjusting weights, but that's assuming the clustering is using NNs in the first place.

The most reliable heuristics in order are:

-Address reuse
-Common input consolidation
-Matching input script type to change script type
-Other matching change fingerprints (like version/nlocktime value, RBF flag, fees paid in sat/vbyte or in total sats) when all output scripts are the same

The less reliable ones would be:

-Round payment amount
-1 output transfers, which could be a self spend or a payment
-Matching origins/destinations

[ABCbits]

This is not just about Wasabi but any service relying on TOR for security.
Just keep in mind, you are relying on the fact that the TOR exit node you are using is actually not malicious / monitoring what you are doing.

https://therecord.media/thousands-of-tor-exit-nodes-attacked-cryptocurrency-users-over-the-past-year

Just something to keep in the back of your head.

-Dave

I don't see much relevance when AFAIK WabiSabi coordinator (run by zkSNACKs) use .onion address and Wasabi Wallet only connect to either your local node or someone else full node which also use .onion address. CMIIW.

[NotATether]

I don't see much relevance when AFAIK WabiSabi coordinator (run by zkSNACKs) use .onion address and Wasabi Wallet only connect to either your local node or someone else full node which also use .onion address. CMIIW.

The worst that can happen is censorship in the form of a Sybil attack, but nobody's going to be able to gather enough Tor exit nodes for carrying one out, because the Tor network keeps kicking them out. Besides, it's really only of interest to a nation state - career criminals see there's no money to be gained here and move on.

[Wind_FURY]

Kruw, nopara73, Wasabi, I have one question. It might currently not be a real concern, but it could be something of an issue if more and more people CoinJoin through Wasabi, and therefore with that, more and more "false positives" also happen.

How do we refute that an "alert" is a "false positive"? Because the blockchain analysis company could always claim that a "true positive" is proof of the reliability of the system, while a "false negative" could be used to claim that the company should set up tighter filters.

I believe that's something that the developers, and the community, could get together and work on.

I suppose you could always voluntarily disclose where/how funds were obtained if you think a false positive ban has occurred.  The ban might not be lifted, but this feedback may help indicate that wallet clustering heuristics are being applied too aggressively.

I was afraid that you might say that, but it could be a start and raise the topic that there SHOULD be challengeability, or else we're merely going to follow their rules.

Another question. Is setting up a coordinator difficult? Or could anyone, a non-coder, who was basic technical knowledge, and who could compile and troubleshoot be enough to set up and install one?

Plus the documents and the readme doesn't have much information on compiling/installing/configuring one. Perhaps it's time to encourage the BitcoinTalk community to run and boot-strap their own coordinators?

[NotATether]

Another question. Is setting up a coordinator difficult? Or could anyone, a non-coder, who was basic technical knowledge, and who could compile and troubleshoot be enough to set up and install one?

Plus the documents and the readme doesn't have much information on compiling/installing/configuring one. Perhaps it's time to encourage the BitcoinTalk community to run and boot-strap their own coordinators?

Provided that software already exists for it, I don't think so. It would just prompt you to load it with BTC to bootstrap the coordinator.

[Kruw]

I was afraid that you might say that, but it could be a start and raise the topic that there SHOULD be challengeability, or else we're merely going to follow their rules.

Since the rules are proprietary information, there's not a good way to challenge or verify the results.

Another question. Is setting up a coordinator difficult? Or could anyone, a non-coder, who was basic technical knowledge, and who could compile and troubleshoot be enough to set up and install one?

It's easy with the BTCPay Server WabiSabi plugin, you just click "enable coordinator".

Provided that software already exists for it, I don't think so. It would just prompt you to load it with BTC to bootstrap the coordinator.

Running a coordinator doesn't require you to own any BTC

[Wind_FURY]

I was afraid that you might say that, but it could be a start and raise the topic that there SHOULD be challengeability, or else we're merely going to follow their rules.

Since the rules are proprietary information, there's not a good way to challenge or verify the results.

As a community, we should probably find a compromise. Because they, as centralized entities, can't truly be trusted, no?

🤔

Another question. Is setting up a coordinator difficult? Or could anyone, a non-coder, who was basic technical knowledge, and who could compile and troubleshoot be enough to set up and install one?

It's easy with the BTCPay Server WabiSabi plugin, you just click "enable coordinator".

Can a modified version of BTCPay Server then be used as a substitute as a CoinJoin app for mixing/tumbling is the next question. Haha. Trying to learn how to run a coordinator as a pleb is more complicated than I thought! But the smarter, more technical people in the forum look like they haven't shown any interest yet. Let's wait. I believe a BitcoinTalk group will start running one soon. If the incentives are worth it, it's a good opportnity.

[ABCbits]

Another question. Is setting up a coordinator difficult? Or could anyone, a non-coder, who was basic technical knowledge, and who could compile and troubleshoot be enough to set up and install one?

It's easy with the BTCPay Server WabiSabi plugin, you just click "enable coordinator".

Can a modified version of BTCPay Server then be used as a substitute as a CoinJoin app for mixing/tumbling is the next question. Haha.

If you check it's documentation[1], it's possible.

Trying to learn how to run a coordinator as a pleb is more complicated than I thought! But the smarter, more technical people in the forum look like they haven't shown any interest yet. Let's wait. I believe a BitcoinTalk group will start running one soon. If the incentives are worth it, it's a good opportnity.

Running one isn't very hard. But it becomes very hard if you need to consider other thing such as securing the server, configuring Tor properly and gaining trust of other people which take long time.

[1] https://docs.btcpayserver.org/Wabisabi/#usage

[Kruw]

As a community, we should probably find a compromise. Because they, as centralized entities, can't truly be trusted, no?

I agree, which is why they aren't trusted with anything meaningful.  As I mentioned in the previous thread, being flagged as a false positive is harmless since it doesn't cost you any fees, doesn't impact your privacy, and can't cause you to lose custody of your funds.

Can a modified version of BTCPay Server then be used as a substitute as a CoinJoin app for mixing/tumbling is the next question. Haha.

BTCPay Server's WabiSabi plugin is a substitute for Wasabi Wallet, it even offers many advanced configurations Wasabi does not:

Pleb Mode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGVCrwMKKn0
Scientist Mode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5nFckPfPcA

Trying to learn how to run a coordinator as a pleb is more complicated than I thought! But the smarter, more technical people in the forum look like they haven't shown any interest yet. Let's wait. I believe a BitcoinTalk group will start running one soon. If the incentives are worth it, it's a good opportnity.

Complicated how? It's a single button: https://i.imgur.com/dA1YkUp.png

[ABCbits]

Trying to learn how to run a coordinator as a pleb is more complicated than I thought! But the smarter, more technical people in the forum look like they haven't shown any interest yet. Let's wait. I believe a BitcoinTalk group will start running one soon. If the incentives are worth it, it's a good opportnity.

Complicated how? It's a single button: https://i.imgur.com/dA1YkUp.png

Maybe he refer to complexity when installing and configuring BTCPay itself, assuming he prefer not to use 3rd party.

[Wind_FURY]

Trying to learn how to run a coordinator as a pleb is more complicated than I thought! But the smarter, more technical people in the forum look like they haven't shown any interest yet. Let's wait. I believe a BitcoinTalk group will start running one soon. If the incentives are worth it, it's a good opportnity.

Complicated how? It's a single button: https://i.imgur.com/dA1YkUp.png

Maybe he refer to complexity when installing and configuring BTCPay itself, assuming he prefer not to use 3rd party.

No, it was because I was under the presumption that everything a person needed had clear and concise documentation on how to compile, install, configure, and deploy a coordinator when Peter Todd said "just run your own coordinator" when asked about what to do if a user doesn't want use zxSNACKS' coordinator in a video.

But it doesn't really matter for me personally, I merely wanted to explore and see what I can do with my limited technical knowledge. But I hope mixers start running their own coordinators and offer CoinJoin as another option for their service.

[DaveF]

Are you using block space efficiently?  Wasabi's coinjoin of the week conserved 59 UTXOs in a single private transaction! https://mempool.space/tx/e4af29d4544af4d3ac4641b6e330db66d55e6ee5476963a566129d035eaf1523

Number of inputs: 316
Number of outputs: 257
Value: 30.86650977 BTC
Fee rate: 43.69 sats/vbyte
Input anonset: 5.96
Output anonset: 7.79

Is there any reason that you are not enabling RBF?
If there is a coinjoin and fees spike it has the potential to sit there for a long time.
I realize bumping might lead to some privacy issues but can't think of a reason not to have it enabled.

-Dave

[Kruw]

Is there any reason that you are not enabling RBF?
If there is a coinjoin and fees spike it has the potential to sit there for a long time.
I realize bumping might lead to some privacy issues but can't think of a reason not to have it enabled.

-Dave

Normal payments sent from Wasabi signal RBF, but coinjoins do not.  This is to make DoS attacks (in the form of a double spend of unconfirmed coinjoin inputs) marginally less likely to propagate. 

[Wind_FURY]

Kruw, because Wasabi's mission and vision is to protect user privacy and to preserve Bitcoin's fungibility, I believe this service's business model might be interesting to you and your team, https://[banned mixer]/

zkSNACKS could probably set up a platform using the same model but also using your software for coordinating CoinJoins. It could encourage the community to set up more coordinators, it could incentivize zkSNACKS through charging fees made from their coordinators, and such a platfrom could also make it easy to start/boot-strap a coordinator.

[NotATether]

Provided that software already exists for it, I don't think so. It would just prompt you to load it with BTC to bootstrap the coordinator.

Running a coordinator doesn't require you to own any BTC

But without any capital, isn't a coordinator effectively useless?

If there is no BTC, there is no anonymity set to get UTXOs from for making CoinJoins. It's not possible to bootstrap a CoinJoin with just user inputs as you know.

I guess it only makes sense if you are developing or debugging some coordinator software.

Kruw, because Wasabi's mission and vision is to protect user privacy and to preserve Bitcoin's fungibility, I believe this service's business model might be interesting to you and your team, https://[banned mixer]/

zkSNACKS could probably set up a platform using the same model but also using your software for coordinating CoinJoins. It could encourage the community to set up more coordinators, it could incentivize zkSNACKS through charging fees made from their coordinators, and such a platfrom could also make it easy to start/boot-strap a coordinator.

Jambler is for making bitcoin mixers, not coordinators for wallets

[Wind_FURY]

Kruw, because Wasabi's mission and vision is to protect user privacy and to preserve Bitcoin's fungibility, I believe this service's business model might be interesting to you and your team, https://[banned mixer]/

zkSNACKS could probably set up a platform using the same model but also using your software for coordinating CoinJoins. It could encourage the community to set up more coordinators, it could incentivize zkSNACKS through charging fees made from their coordinators, and such a platfrom could also make it easy to start/boot-strap a coordinator.

Jambler is for making bitcoin mixers, not coordinators for wallets

That's why I said zkSNACKS merely use the same business model because it's a good model for setting up privacy solutions. But instead of using a proprietary mixing software, use zkSNACKS open source software for coordinating CoinJoins.

It could work, no? And from the viewpoint of a community that cares about privacy and Bitcoin's fungibility, the pros probably outweigh the means.

[Kruw]

If there is no BTC, there is no anonymity set to get UTXOs from for making CoinJoins. It's not possible to bootstrap a CoinJoin with just user inputs as you know.

Coinjoins are made up entirely of user inputs, there's no requirement that the coordinator participates in coinjoins they coordinate.

That's why I said zkSNACKS merely use the same business model because it's a good model for setting up privacy solutions. But instead of using a proprietary mixing software, use zkSNACKS open source software for coordinating CoinJoins.

Yes, if the integrating client supports network privacy features (Tor/xpub protection), then zkSNACKs will reward affiliates: https://zksnacks.com/coinjoin-api/

[DaveF]

Is there any reason that you are not enabling RBF?
If there is a coinjoin and fees spike it has the potential to sit there for a long time.
I realize bumping might lead to some privacy issues but can't think of a reason not to have it enabled.

-Dave

Normal payments sent from Wasabi signal RBF, but coinjoins do not.  This is to make DoS attacks (in the form of a double spend of unconfirmed coinjoin inputs) marginally less likely to propagate. 

But, how do you protect from fee spikes? Yes, it's an edge case but other then CPFP there is not much you can do and it does leave the potential of having a coinjoin sitting out there for hours / days.
From what I can see the fee paid is about what it should take to get it into the next block, but we all have see that blow up in peoples faces when there is a long gap between blocks and some ordinal garbage hits.

-Dave

[Kruw]

But, how do you protect from fee spikes? Yes, it's an edge case but other then CPFP there is not much you can do and it does leave the potential of having a coinjoin sitting out there for hours / days.
From what I can see the fee paid is about what it should take to get it into the next block, but we all have see that blow up in peoples faces when there is a long gap between blocks and some ordinal garbage hits.

-Dave

Yes, fee estimation is a higher stakes problem with coinjoins compared to single party payments, I started a Github discussion about it - https://github.com/zkSNACKs/WalletWasabi/discussions/12046

[Pmalek]

@Kruw
With everything that happened with Sinbad and the campaign's escrow address landing on the OFAC sanctions list, has zkSNACKs implemented the same sanctions to the address and/or all others connected to it? More precisely, since it isn't zkSNACKs that implements the sanctions and its the blockchain analysis company, is the suggestion that zkSNACKs receives to allow or disallow UTXOs into coinjoins from the above-mentioned users? I don't use Wasabi, but it would be interesting to hear how it would handle it.

[Kruw]

@Kruw
With everything that happened with Sinbad and the campaign's escrow address landing on the OFAC sanctions list, has zkSNACKs implemented the same sanctions to the address and/or all others connected to it? More precisely, since it isn't zkSNACKs that implements the sanctions and its the blockchain analysis company, is the suggestion that zkSNACKs receives to allow or disallow UTXOs into coinjoins from the above-mentioned users? I don't use Wasabi, but it would be interesting to hear how it would handle it.

If an address is specifically listed as OFAC sanctioned, it's definitely going to be blocked.  I don't know how coins that have proximity to that address are affected.

[NotATether]

@Kruw
With everything that happened with Sinbad and the campaign's escrow address landing on the OFAC sanctions list, has zkSNACKs implemented the same sanctions to the address and/or all others connected to it? More precisely, since it isn't zkSNACKs that implements the sanctions and its the blockchain analysis company, is the suggestion that zkSNACKs receives to allow or disallow UTXOs into coinjoins from the above-mentioned users? I don't use Wasabi, but it would be interesting to hear how it would handle it.

If an address is specifically listed as OFAC sanctioned, it's definitely going to be blocked.  I don't know how coins that have proximity to that address are affected.

That's fine and it a much better stance to take than some other websites are doing, who are outright blocking anyone with an IP from any country with related sanctions from doing financial transactions.

[Pmalek]

That's fine and it a much better stance to take than some other websites are doing, who are outright blocking anyone with an IP from any country with related sanctions from doing financial transactions.

Ahh, yes. The land of the free and all its possibilities. I had no idea that Stacker.news had such a discriminatory policy towards whole countries and regions. I don't use it, so I don't care. I am going off-topic but somehow while reading your post and the announcement by SN, I remembered Borat's pledge to the US, when he said "we (Kazakhstan) support your war of terror." The whole crowd goes nuts thinking he just made a grammatical error and was trying to say something completely different. I will stop there.

[Wind_FURY]

@Kruw
With everything that happened with Sinbad and the campaign's escrow address landing on the OFAC sanctions list, has zkSNACKs implemented the same sanctions to the address and/or all others connected to it? More precisely, since it isn't zkSNACKs that implements the sanctions and its the blockchain analysis company, is the suggestion that zkSNACKs receives to allow or disallow UTXOs into coinjoins from the above-mentioned users? I don't use Wasabi, but it would be interesting to hear how it would handle it.

Do you hold UTXOs that were sent from Sinbad's sanctioned wallet? Why not do a small experiment, "for the science".

You send some coins to zkSNACKS' coordinator and check if your UTXOs are blocked. If they are, send those UTXOs to the Lightning Network, then send them to yourself. Get them out of Lightning, in a new "clean" address, then send them to zkSNACKS' coordinator.

 

[Pmalek]

Do you hold UTXOs that were sent from Sinbad's sanctioned wallet? Why not do a small experiment, "for the science".

Everyone that participated in the Signature campaign does. The authorities sanctioned the escrow address that held and still holds the signature campaign payments to the OFAC sanctions list. I am not sure what the other sanctioned address is, but it never held any real value on it. One could rightly ask, what's with the hundreds of millions of allegedly laundered and mixed coins from hacks and the addresses connected to those exploits. Are they sanctioned?

Why not do a small experiment, "for the science".

After everything that has been said and done concerning Wasabi and zkSNACKS, I don't want to use their wallet.

[Wind_FURY]

Do you hold UTXOs that were sent from Sinbad's sanctioned wallet? Why not do a small experiment, "for the science".

Everyone that participated in the Signature campaign does. The authorities sanctioned the escrow address that held and still holds the signature campaign payments to the OFAC sanctions list. I am not sure what the other sanctioned address is, but it never held any real value on it. One could rightly ask, what's with the hundreds of millions of allegedly laundered and mixed coins from hacks and the addresses connected to those exploits. Are they sanctioned?

What exploits?

But if you mean addresses that received outputs that were mixed through Sinbad, it's probably better to assume that they're being monitored.

I believe it would also be better to send those UTXOs to yourself through the Lightning Network. Those outputs would be left in one of the relay nodes.

Why not do a small experiment, "for the science".

After everything that has been said and done concerning Wasabi and zkSNACKS, I don't want to use their wallet.

Don't take it personally, Wasabi is just one of the tools that you could choose, or not to choose, to use in Bitcoin. Plus just do it as an experiment merely to know if it works.

[Pmalek]

@Wind_FURY
Exploits as in the hacked money the authorities claim went through the mixer. Have they sanctioned and traced where those funds went? It doesn't seem like it. It looks like sloppy work putting an escrow address of a signature campaign on a sanctions list and patting yourself on the shoulders, saying that you made a difference somehow.

[Wind_FURY]

@Wind_FURY
Exploits as in the hacked money the authorities claim went through the mixer.

OK, I thought you were talking about system vulnerabilities/security flaws.

Have they sanctioned and traced where those funds went? It doesn't seem like it. It looks like sloppy work putting an escrow address of a signature campaign on a sanctions list and patting yourself on the shoulders, saying that you made a difference somehow.

That's the point that I have been trying to emphasize. I don't have any problem if the authorities/law enforcement do their jobs. But we need refutability against their claims because how do we truly verify if they're doing their jobs properly, or not.

I also don't have any problem if a company decides to hire the services of a blockchain analysis company. As a centralized entity it's their decision and it's not illegal. BUT as a community I believe as a matter of ethics, they should always give their users the benefit of the doubt.

[Kruw]

Wasabi made 610 Bitcoins anonymous with a single coinjoin transaction: https://mempool.space/tx/fb596c9f675471019c60e984b569f9020dac3b2822b16396042b50c890b45e5e

Number of inputs: 327
Number of outputs: 279
Value: 610.74252451 BTC
Fee rate: 50.53 sats/vbyte
Input anonset: 4.48
Output anonset: 7.15

[Kruw]

So is this a paid service/wallet?

The wallet is free to use, coinjoining costs a 0.3% service fee in some cases.

How conveniently you appeared right after the ban on mixers, 🤔

Wasabi didn't just appear, it's been around since 2018, and was a winner of Bitcointalk's coinjoin development bounty:

Congratulations to the Wasabi and JoinMarket developers! JoinMarket pioneered a lot of CoinJoin science (and BTW, belcher wrote an excellent & comprehensive wiki article on privacy), while Wasabi is the first wallet that implements CoinJoin in both a highly-usable and sound way. As both a signer and a donor to the CoinJoin bounty fund, I'm thrilled that these two pieces of software exist!

For everyone looking to improve their privacy, I highly recommend checking out Wasabi, especially over centralized "mixers".

please note that I'm all for catching the criminals, but since there are some accusations against you, and the timing of your appearance, I say this is a honeypot obviously, but after reading the post about the accusation, it seems you guys helped to catch scammers and hackers. Which I would say works in your favour, but not if the goal was to catch more scammers and criminals for a long time.

This should be an indication that open source world is a dangerous place for both criminals and law enforcements equally, that's what I love about such a world. 😉

The accusations are completely false, there has never been any help provided to catch scammers or hackers.  No such help is possible because your data is never shared with Wasabi's developers or coinjoin coordinator.  Period.

[Poker Player]

The accusations are completely false, there has never been any help provided to catch scammers or hackers.  No such help is possible because your data is never shared with Wasabi's developers or coinjoin coordinator.  Period.

I understand that it's best to defend yourself against all kinds of accusations, but I wouldn't waste too much time with digaran, unless you're having fun doing it or something. Between him saying nonsense, making up things, and mixing lies with truths you can drive yourself crazy if you try to answer him seriously repeatedly.

[Kruw]

The wallet is free to use, coinjoining costs a 0.3% service fee in some cases.

So you are getting a fee, now my question is, can people use this wallet without involving you? Like some kind of fork?

Yes, every line of code including the backend coordinator is completely open source so anyone can fork it and run their own (for profit, or for free): https://github.com/zkSnacks/WalletWasabi

I can't take your words for it, sorry. Unless of course peers that I trust have a review and audit your software to give the green light for me to use, or I spend my time to do the review myself. But it would be easier to verify the claims against you, if in fact those hackers/scammers used your services before getting caught, then that would mean the end of you and anyone who vouched for you as an expert to claim that your service is %100 safe.

Like I said, the accusations of arrests are completely fabricated.  It's yet another made up lie by the disgraced Samourai Wallet: https://twitter.com/yahiheb_/status/1661926227572060161

Repeated dishonesty from Samourai have barred them from ever receiving a payout from the bounty as far as I am concerned: I will not be signing a transaction paying them. Evaluating the privacy of systems is difficult even when the involved parties are honest and easy to work with, it is far too difficult when they are actively misleading.  Personally, I would urge my friends to not use that wallet.

[examplens]

@Wind_FURY
Exploits as in the hacked money the authorities claim went through the mixer. Have they sanctioned and traced where those funds went? It doesn't seem like it. It looks like sloppy work putting an escrow address of a signature campaign on a sanctions list and patting yourself on the shoulders, saying that you made a difference somehow.

Well, it's a bit unreal, Sinbad was accused of a huge amount of money, but in the end all that was found was an escrow address from the Bitcointalk forum that was refilled a few days earlier.

Do you hold UTXOs that were sent from Sinbad's sanctioned wallet? Why not do a small experiment, "for the science".

I am. And I sent those funds and I still haven't received any questions about the origin of those coins. I didn't use Wasabi for those transactions if that's what you're getting at.

Like I said, the accusations of arrests are completely fabricated. 

Can someone tell me what the accusations are?
A long time ago, I was testing the Wasabi wallet, after that I saw a couple of times that a negative connotation was associated with it, but I did not investigate in detail what it was about.

[Kruw]

I understand that gmaxwell is one of the main developers of coinjoin technology, he just loves to suggest great innovations and then watch the world fighting over his inventions. But did he ever officially vouch for wasabi?

He, theymos, and Pieter Wuille awarded Wasabi (and JoinMarket) the coinjoin development bounty.

Besides, if the accusations are true, it could mean you did something wrong and not the software itself, but the quote from him in 2 posts above, states something about another software, however I would love to read theymos and Maxwell's official opinions regarding the recent accusations, after all if we can't rely on our experts, who should we rely on, eh?

If you want to hear more experts comment on the accusations against Wasabi and the fraud being perpetrated by Samourai, here is a recent interview with Peter Todd about the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPNFdhZUGmk

Can someone tell me what the accusations are?
A long time ago, I was testing the Wasabi wallet, after that I saw a couple of times that a negative connotation was associated with it, but I did not investigate in detail what it was about.

The accusations revolve around Wasabi users reusing their addresses.  You should always generate a new address for every transaction you receive, because when you reuse an address, it provides a 100% link between transactions it participates in, even if you coinjoin.  Samourai's false attempts to convince people that there is a "flaw" in Wasabi's coinjoins because people are reusing their addresses.  This is reverse accusation tactic deployed by Samourai's developers because Samourai Wallet has had multiple bugs in their wallet where their coins were automatically sent to addresses that were already used:

https://medium.com/@thepiratewhocantbenamed/samourai-wallet-address-reuse-bug-1d64d311983d
https://twitter.com/SamouraiWallet/status/1283145015124996098
https://twitter.com/brian_trollz/status/1559018534675644418
https://web.archive.org/web/20231025112815/https://code.samourai.io/wallet/samourai-wallet-android/-/issues/462

[Pmalek]

Well, it's a bit unreal, Sinbad was accused of a huge amount of money, but in the end all that was found was an escrow address from the Bitcointalk forum that was refilled a few days earlier.

It's the same escrow address that was also used earlier to send payments to campaign participants. The last filling of the address only happened because there wasn't enough coins in it.

I am. And I sent those funds and I still haven't received any questions about the origin of those coins. I didn't use Wasabi for those transactions if that's what you're getting at.

I am curious, where did you send them? If it wasn't to a popular CEX, then I am sure it's fine. Some Binance users reported issues after being connected to coins coming from that escrow address, so they are checking and taking note.

[kayirigi]

Evidence for Wasabi's 132 arrests all listed here... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5480440.msg63442503#msg63442503

Kruwed can cry and carry water for his BC analysis masters, but evidence is clear... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5480440.msg63442503#msg63442503

Wasabi is a government honeypot.

[Kruw]

Evidence for Wasabi's 132 arrests all listed here... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5480440.msg63442503#msg63442503

Kruwed can cry and carry water for his BC analysis masters, but evidence is clear... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5480440.msg63442503#msg63442503

Wasabi is a government honeypot.

You never provided any proof of arrests.  "132 arrests" is a fake accusation made up by Samourai, you just reposted it without verifying it:  https://twitter.com/yahiheb_/status/1661926227572060161

You can verify yourself that Wasabi is not a government honeypot since all of the code is entirely open source.  Your data never leaves your device: https://github.com/zkSNACKs/WalletWasabi

[n0nce]

You can verify yourself that Wasabi is not a government honeypot since all of the code is entirely open source.  Your data never leaves your device: https://github.com/zkSNACKs/WalletWasabi

I want to reiterate (not for you, there is no hope to make you see the truth by now; I'm writing for new readers):

We can read the wallet source code, but there is no way to verify what code actually runs on zkSNACKs' servers, which is the default this wallets connects to. Furthermore, zkSNACKs confirmed multiple times in writing that they do work with blockchain analysis companies, and can deny access to the service.

It is easy to see that this is a 'point of failure', where governments or anyone else, could apply pressure to either deny someone access to mixing, or actually just receive data from the company and trace coins back to someone's real-life identity through.. well, good ol' blockchain analysis.

I understand that gmaxwell is one of the main developers of coinjoin technology, he just loves to suggest great innovations and then watch the world fighting over his inventions. But did he ever officially vouch for wasabi?

He, theymos, and Pieter Wuille awarded Wasabi (and JoinMarket) the coinjoin development bounty.

If I remember correctly, that was quite a while ago, right? Handing someone a development bounty has nothing to do with vouching for their business decisions years down the road.

[Kruw]

I want to reiterate (not for you, there is no hope to make you see the truth by now; I'm writing for new readers):

We can read the wallet source code, but there is no way to verify what code actually runs on zkSNACKs' servers, which is the default this wallets connects to. Furthermore, zkSNACKs confirmed multiple times in writing that they do work with blockchain analysis companies, and can deny access to the service.

It is easy to see that this is a 'point of failure', where governments or anyone else, could apply pressure to either deny someone access to mixing, or actually just receive data from the company and trace coins back to someone's real-life identity through.. well, good ol' blockchain analysis.

It's disgusting to see you coming back to a new thread to deceive new readers, you've already been exposed as a lying BASTARD on this exact point already: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5286821.msg62780404#msg62780404

If you claim my statement is a lie, you have to claim that zkSNACKS does not collaborate with blockchain analysis companies, which they themselves admit publicly, repeatedly!! Cheesy This is getting hilarious.

Please provide one instance of zkSNACKs publicly admitting they provide data to blockchain analysis companies.

3 PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES and COIN FILTERING
==========================================

    You agree that You will not use the Services to perform any type of illegal activity of any sort or to take any action that adversely affects the performance of or the provision by the Service Provider of the Services. Furthermore, You agree that You will not use the Services on Bitcoin that is created, received or given in exchange for, or as a result of, any type of illegal activity.
    Use of the Services in a manner contrary to local law is generally prohibited.

    The prohibition of this paragraph includes, but is not limited to, the following prohibited activities:
     - sales of narcotics, research chemicals or any controlled substances;
     - items that infringe or violate any intellectual property rights such as copyrights, trademarks, trade secrets, or patents;
     - ammunition, firearms, explosives (including fireworks), or weapons regulated under applicable law;
     - transactions that show the personal information of third parties in violation of applicable law;
     - transactions that support pyramid, Ponzi, or other "get rich quick" schemes;
     - provide credit repair or debt settlement services;
     - explicit sexual content;
     - money laundering or any support thereof.

    You agree that You will not engage in any of the following activities via the Services, nor will You help or facilitate a third party to engage in any such activity:
     - attempt to gain unauthorized access to our Coordinator;
     - make any attempt to bypass or circumvent any security features;
     - violate any law, statute, ordinance, regulation or court order;
     - engage in any activity that is abusive or interferes with or disrupts our Services.

    If You find any reason to violate the law during Your transaction (for example, in a transaction with a third party), please let us know at one of the contacts listed at the end of this document.
    The Service Provider shall assist the investigation in any case, if so instructed by an authorized body, a final court judgment or a final regulatory decision.

    COIN FILTERING

    zkSNACKs Ltd. may execute illicit activity checking and control via a contracted third party solely in its CoinJoin coordination services. zkSNACKs Ltd. may suspend your UTXOs’ access to the CoinJoin services, with immediate effect for any reason - including but not limited to illicit or prohibited activities, applicable sanctions programs, or any crime or money-laundering activity - at its sole discretion and is under no obligation to disclose the details of its decision to take such action with you. In this case you are not permitted to use the relevant/high-risk bitcoin UTXO to reach the CoinJoin services.
    You acknowledge that zkSNACKs Ltd.'s decision to take certain actions, including suspending for any reason at our sole discretion, may be based on confidential criteria that are essential to zkSNACKs Ltd.'s risk management and security protocols. You agree that zkSNACKs Ltd. is under no obligation to disclose the details of its risk management and security procedures to you.
    Your access with the relevant bitcoin UTXOs to the CoinJoin services will be permanently suspended.

I find it funny that you, nopara and others have tried to fight for us to separate between Wasabi (wallet) and zkSNACKS (company), meanwhile they put legal disclaimers that theoretically refer only to the company and their own coordinator, in the actual wallet's source code...

So you were proven to be lying when you claimed that the zkSNACKS coordinator submits data to blockchain analysis companies since you were not able to provide even a single instance of zkSNACKs collecting data. You skipped right past the zkSNACKs privacy policy that explicitly says they cannot collect any data:

=========================================
II. PRIVACY POLICY
=========================================

    This policy describes the ways zkSNACKs collects, stores, uses and protects personal information. The purpose of this policy is to ensure that zkSNACKs complies with applicable European Union (EU) and other statutory data protection laws and regulations, and ensures that users are provided privacy protection.
    Data protection laws are generally relevant in case any processing of personal data is concerned. The terms used within the scope of this data protection declaration are defined in and by the General Data Protection Regulation of the European Union. As such, the wide definition of "processing" of personal data means any operation or set of operations performed on personal data.

Personally Identifiable Information
===================================

    “Personally identifiable information” (“personal information”) is any information that can be directly associated with a specific person and can be used to identify that person. A prime example of identifiable information is a person’s name.

Handling Information
====================

   Since we are working on privacy, and our mission is to regain personal privacy, our Services are designed to be used without indication of any personal data. For this reason we do not have any kind of data collecting solutions built into our products. There may only be one personal data processing in our Service, for customer support in case of technical problems: visitors may, indicate their email addresses voluntarily to get notifications in case of any potential technical problems or other inquiries. These e-mail addresses are solely used to answer users’ questions and are erased after 100 days. In this case, the processing of the data is based on a freely given consent to Article 6 (1) (a) of the GDPR and is aimed at the effective handling of the complaint.
    We use GitHub as the main platform for users’ technical questions and issues, and we do not retain any data that can be subsequently identified / associated with the user.
   We expressly declare that we do not manage or store any other personally identifiable information.
    By visiting the Website and using our Services, You agree with this policy, in accordance with Section 1.2 of the Terms and Conditions

All User Information is Confidential
====================================

   Because we cannot link Your wallet and Your personal information (such as Your name and IP address) provided under the Service, Your personal information is safe and cannot be accessed by our staff or third parties.
    zkSNACKs will protect processed data in the customer Service process adequately against unauthorized access (of third parties) in accordance with the provisions of the legal framework of Republic of Seychelles. We will only process data which are essential to provide our Services. Data will not be used or stored by other means than set out in this document and are made accessible only to a restricted and necessary number of persons. We do not transfer any personal data to third parties.
    All employees of zkSNACKs have been informed about applicable data protection provisions as well as data security measures and are bound to our privacy practices. All staff are bound by confidentiality agreements.

Use of Cookies
==============

    A cookie is a small piece of data that a website asks Your browser to store on Your computer or mobile device. The cookie allows the website to “remember” Your actions or preferences over time.
   We expressly declare that we do not use cookies.

Of course, you never have to trust zkSNACKs that they do not collect any data since the Wasabi client itself prevents any coordinator from collecting any data, which you can verify since it is entirely open source, just like Bitcoin itself!

Since you already proven to be a LIAR in the previous thread, why did you return to this thread to try to deceive new users into thinking they are trusting zkSNACKs with any data when they are not?  I don't understand how you didn't feel enough shame from being proven wrong in the first thread that you would come back to a new thread just to get humiliated AGAIN for propagating completely false information to new users?

[Kruw]

you are here talking about privacy, lol unless the quotes above are wrong?

Yes, I am here talking about privacy.  Did you read the privacy policy I quoted?  I'll post it again so everyone is clear that there is absolutely no data collected whatsoever by zkSNACKs:

=========================================
II. PRIVACY POLICY
=========================================

    This policy describes the ways zkSNACKs collects, stores, uses and protects personal information. The purpose of this policy is to ensure that zkSNACKs complies with applicable European Union (EU) and other statutory data protection laws and regulations, and ensures that users are provided privacy protection.
    Data protection laws are generally relevant in case any processing of personal data is concerned. The terms used within the scope of this data protection declaration are defined in and by the General Data Protection Regulation of the European Union. As such, the wide definition of "processing" of personal data means any operation or set of operations performed on personal data.

Personally Identifiable Information
===================================

    “Personally identifiable information” (“personal information”) is any information that can be directly associated with a specific person and can be used to identify that person. A prime example of identifiable information is a person’s name.

Handling Information
====================

   Since we are working on privacy, and our mission is to regain personal privacy, our Services are designed to be used without indication of any personal data. For this reason we do not have any kind of data collecting solutions built into our products. There may only be one personal data processing in our Service, for customer support in case of technical problems: visitors may, indicate their email addresses voluntarily to get notifications in case of any potential technical problems or other inquiries. These e-mail addresses are solely used to answer users’ questions and are erased after 100 days. In this case, the processing of the data is based on a freely given consent to Article 6 (1) (a) of the GDPR and is aimed at the effective handling of the complaint.
    We use GitHub as the main platform for users’ technical questions and issues, and we do not retain any data that can be subsequently identified / associated with the user.
   We expressly declare that we do not manage or store any other personally identifiable information.
    By visiting the Website and using our Services, You agree with this policy, in accordance with Section 1.2 of the Terms and Conditions

All User Information is Confidential
====================================

   Because we cannot link Your wallet and Your personal information (such as Your name and IP address) provided under the Service, Your personal information is safe and cannot be accessed by our staff or third parties.
    zkSNACKs will protect processed data in the customer Service process adequately against unauthorized access (of third parties) in accordance with the provisions of the legal framework of Republic of Seychelles. We will only process data which are essential to provide our Services. Data will not be used or stored by other means than set out in this document and are made accessible only to a restricted and necessary number of persons. We do not transfer any personal data to third parties.
    All employees of zkSNACKs have been informed about applicable data protection provisions as well as data security measures and are bound to our privacy practices. All staff are bound by confidentiality agreements.

Use of Cookies
==============

    A cookie is a small piece of data that a website asks Your browser to store on Your computer or mobile device. The cookie allows the website to “remember” Your actions or preferences over time.
   We expressly declare that we do not use cookies.

[n0nce]

you are here talking about privacy, lol unless the quotes above are wrong?

Yes, I am here talking about privacy.  Did you read the privacy policy I quoted?  I'll post it again so everyone is clear that there is absolutely no data collected whatsoever by zkSNACKs:

zkSNACKs specifies that they may blacklist your coins, e.g. if you're trying to use it for 'illicit' activities (their definition of what that is exactly, can be argued about, too, but it's a different story).

zkSNACKs Ltd. may execute illicit activity checking and control via a contracted third party solely in its coinjoin coordination services. zkSNACKs Ltd. may suspend your UTXOs’ access to the coinjoin services, with immediate effect for any reason - including but not limited to illicit or prohibited activities, applicable sanctions programs, or any crime or money-laundering activity - at its sole discretion and is under no obligation to disclose the details of its decision to take such action with you. In this case you are not permitted to use the relevant/high-risk bitcoin UTXO to reach the coinjoin services.

You acknowledge that zkSNACKs Ltd.'s decision to take certain actions, including suspending for any reason at our sole discretion, may be based on confidential criteria that are essential to zkSNACKs Ltd.'s risk management and security protocols. You agree that zkSNACKs Ltd. is under no obligation to disclose the details of its risk management and security procedures to you.

Your access with the relevant bitcoin UTXOs to the coinjoin services will be permanently suspended.

How can they censor your UTXOs if they don't 'collect any data'? You need some kind of basis to decide whether a transaction is connected to an 'illicit or prohibited activity' or not.

Besides that, one of Bitcoin's core reasons of existence is not to censor any transactions, regardless of what business they're involved in.

[Kruw]

How can they censor your UTXOs if they don't 'collect any data'?

Because they buy that data from someone else, obviously.

[NotATether]

How can they censor your UTXOs if they don't 'collect any data'?

Because they buy that data from someone else, obviously.

So you're saying the data is not real-time?

While I don't expect anyone here to know the rate at which zksnacks updates their blacklisting database, or even whether it is updated periodically, I am fairly sure that if something comes up as in an event where somebody is conducting a major hack or dirty money movement and the blockchain analysis firms have tracked it, they should have some kind of notification to update their database, no? If not trigger it automatically?

[Kruw]

So you're saying the data is not real-time?

When an input registers, a query with that input's address is sent to an analysis company in real time.  The analysis company replies with a risk category associated with that address (e.g. credit card fraud), if there one was reported for that address.

they should have some kind of notification to update their database, no? If not trigger it automatically?

If an address is blocked for suspicious activity, the ban lasts for 30 days.  If there was an update to the database that cleared that address of a false positive flag, they would be able to coinjoin it then.

[Wind_FURY]

So you're saying the data is not real-time?

When an input registers, a query with that input's address is sent to an analysis company in real time.  The analysis company replies with a risk category associated with that address (e.g. credit card fraud), if there one was reported for that address?

I'm merely curious how many of the total inputs are rejected by the coordinator annually. Would you be allowed to give the public that information? Or you can just give everyone reading through the topic an estimated percentage.

they should have some kind of notification to update their database, no? If not trigger it automatically?

If an address is blocked for suspicious activity, the ban lasts for 30 days.  If there was an update to the database that cleared that address of a false positive flag, they would be able to coinjoin it then.

I like that, and that would be fair for the users. I believe zkSNACKS should start a forum to give users a place where they could refute false positives.

That would probably be a good source of data for both Wasabi and the blockchain analytics company to improve your/their services.

[Kruw]

I'm merely curious how many of the total inputs are rejected by the coordinator annually. Would you be allowed to give the public that information? Or you can just give everyone reading through the topic an estimated percentage.

I don't have access to that information.

I like that, and that would be fair for the users. I believe zkSNACKS should start a forum to give users a place where they could refute false positives.

That would probably be a good source of data for both Wasabi and the blockchain analytics company to improve your/their services.

If you experience a blacklisting rejection on coins from a reputable source or service, you can create an issue on Github to report a false positive flag.

[ABCbits]

Onion link: http://wasabiukrxmkdgve5kynjztuovbg43uxcbcxn6y2okcrsg7gb6jdmbad.onion/

I wanted to check old blog post, so i visit that onion link and choose "BLOG" which redirect me to https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/. But it surprise me that link show me message "403 Forbidden Access to this resource on the server is denied!". I don't mind redirection to clearnet, but i expect they configure their website to explicitly allow Tor visitor.

[bitmover]

I came accross this thread as it was mentioned by icopress and Poker Player.


I immediately found a quote, which was originally written in 1993 by Eric Hughes in the CypherPunk Manifesto (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5175676.0) and no credit was given, making it looks like it was created by wasabiwallet team

Privacy is your ability to selectively reveal yourself to the world. - wasabiwallet.io

I think you should give the proper credit.

A Cypherpunk's Manifesto
by Eric Hughes
Privacy is necessary for an open society in the electronic age. Privacy is not secrecy. A private matter is something one doesn't want the whole world to know, but a secret matter is something one doesn't want anybody to know. Privacy is the power to selectively reveal oneself to the world.
https://www.activism.net/cypherpunk/manifesto.html

[Kruw]

I wanted to check old blog post, so i visit that onion link and choose "BLOG" which redirect me to https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/. But it surprise me that link show me message "403 Forbidden Access to this resource on the server is denied!". I don't mind redirection to clearnet, but i expect they configure their website to explicitly allow Tor visitor.

Thank you for reporting this issue!  The site maintainers are working on fixing it.

I came accross this thread as it was mentioned by icopress and Poker Player.


I immediately found a quote, which was originally written in 1993 by Eric Hughes in the CypherPunk Manifesto (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5175676.0) and no credit was given, making it looks like it was created by wasabiwallet team

Privacy is your ability to selectively reveal yourself to the world. - wasabiwallet.io

I think you should give the proper credit.

A Cypherpunk's Manifesto
by Eric Hughes
Privacy is necessary for an open society in the electronic age. Privacy is not secrecy. A private matter is something one doesn't want the whole world to know, but a secret matter is something one doesn't want anybody to know. Privacy is the power to selectively reveal oneself to the world.
https://www.activism.net/cypherpunk/manifesto.html

Thank you for reporting, I had not realized there was an earlier origin for the quote!

[Kruw]

I wanted to check old blog post, so i visit that onion link and choose "BLOG" which redirect me to https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/. But it surprise me that link show me message "403 Forbidden Access to this resource on the server is denied!". I don't mind redirection to clearnet, but i expect they configure their website to explicitly allow Tor visitor.

Thank you for reporting this issue!  The site maintainers are working on fixing it.

This has now been fixed.  @ABCbits, let me know if you have any issues, I got a 403 error on one attempt, but refreshing the page made it go away.

[kayirigi]

Thank you for reporting, I had not realized there was an earlier origin for the quote!

LOL. LARPs as big defender of privacy but hasn't even heard of Cypherpunk's Manifesto!

Super example of Wasabi team. No idea what they talk about. No idea about privacy. Just want to make profit by spying on you.

[Kruw]

I wrote a blog post for Wasabi explaining the DoS protection and fee savings features - https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/dos-fortification-and-coinjoin-time-preference/

[bitmover]

Hello.

I would certainly  use an android app of wasabi wallet.

Is there any release date for a possible mobile app? I think mobile users are many, and allow users to use wasabi in the phone would be very good.

[ABCbits]

I wanted to check old blog post, so i visit that onion link and choose "BLOG" which redirect me to https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/. But it surprise me that link show me message "403 Forbidden Access to this resource on the server is denied!". I don't mind redirection to clearnet, but i expect they configure their website to explicitly allow Tor visitor.

Thank you for reporting this issue!  The site maintainers are working on fixing it.

This has now been fixed.  @ABCbits, let me know if you have any issues, I got a 403 error on one attempt, but refreshing the page made it go away.

Sorry i didn't notice your reply. Anyway, i can confirm i can access the blog from Tor Browser without encounter 403 most of the times.

Hello.

I would certainly  use an android app of wasabi wallet.

Is there any release date for a possible mobile app? I think mobile users are many, and allow users to use wasabi in the phone would be very good.

This FAQ answer your question, although i recall it's created few years ago.

Is there an Android/iOs version?

No, Wasabi and CoinJoin features require considerable computational power, not currently replicable on a smartphone.

[Kruw]

I would certainly  use an android app of wasabi wallet.

Is there any release date for a possible mobile app? I think mobile users are many, and allow users to use wasabi in the phone would be very good.

A mobile app is on the roadmap, but it's not currently in the building stage yet. A lot of code maintenance was completed to make it easier to implement though.

This FAQ answer your question, although i recall it's created few years ago.

Is there an Android/iOs version?

No, Wasabi and CoinJoin features require considerable computational power, not currently replicable on a smartphone.

One short term option is to launch a mobile Wasabi app that connects to your Wasabi desktop running at home, similar to how Zeus used to only work as a mobile interface for your remote Lightning node.

[Wind_FURY]

I would certainly  use an android app of wasabi wallet.

Is there any release date for a possible mobile app? I think mobile users are many, and allow users to use wasabi in the phone would be very good.

A mobile app is on the roadmap, but it's not currently in the building stage yet. A lot of code maintenance was completed to make it easier to implement though.

This FAQ answer your question, although i recall it's created few years ago.

Is there an Android/iOs version?

No, Wasabi and CoinJoin features require considerable computational power, not currently replicable on a smartphone.

One short term option is to launch a mobile Wasabi app that connects to your Wasabi desktop running at home, similar to how Zeus used to only work as a mobile interface for your remote Lightning node.

When was that comment about smartphones originally made, and how have smartphones of today have become more powerful since the original announcement? I believe some smartphone hardware might be starting to reach the capability of what some software requires of it to function like a desktop, no?

Although the smartphone's OS could be limiting, especially Apple's smartphones.

[ABCbits]

--snip--

When was that comment about smartphones originally made, and how have smartphones of today have become more powerful since the original announcement? I believe some smartphone hardware might be starting to reach the capability of what some software requires of it to function like a desktop, no?

Although the smartphone's OS could be limiting, especially Apple's smartphones.

While it's true smartphone hardware become more powerful, it's not the only limitation. Theoretically, Wasabi Wallet need to run in background while connected to the CoinJoin coordinator and doing some stuff (choose input, sign transaction, etc.). And since Wasabi Wallet use Tor by default, Tor also need to run in background. I expect it could drain battery quickly and the OS show warning about it. CMIIW.

[icopress]

While it's true smartphone hardware become more powerful, it's not the only limitation. Theoretically, Wasabi Wallet need to run in background while connected to the CoinJoin coordinator and doing some stuff (choose input, sign transaction, etc.). And since Wasabi Wallet use Tor by default, Tor also need to run in background. I expect it could drain battery quickly and the OS show warning about it. CMIIW.

What if, when you first launch the application, you can prompt the user to select by default what type of connection will be used to connect (for example, only Wifi). I know that this can be done in the phone settings, but few people worry about it.

And the mobile Internet will be used “only when using the application.” My point is that if the mobile Internet is not used to work in the background, then this will not affect the battery drain in any way.

Although, to be honest, I'm not sure how to implement this. 

[ABCbits]

While it's true smartphone hardware become more powerful, it's not the only limitation. Theoretically, Wasabi Wallet need to run in background while connected to the CoinJoin coordinator and doing some stuff (choose input, sign transaction, etc.). And since Wasabi Wallet use Tor by default, Tor also need to run in background. I expect it could drain battery quickly and the OS show warning about it. CMIIW.

What if, when you first launch the application, you can prompt the user to select by default what type of connection will be used to connect (for example, only Wifi). I know that this can be done in the phone settings, but few people worry about it.

And the mobile Internet will be used “only when using the application.” My point is that if the mobile Internet is not used to work in the background, then this will not affect the battery drain in any way.

Although, to be honest, I'm not sure how to implement this. 

It's decent idea, phone usually use more battery when there's no strong mobile signal. I don't know how it can be implemented either, but i believe Wasabi team have sufficient technical skill to do that. Although i wonder how much battery can be saved when you use Wifi rather than mobile internet.

[examplens]

It's decent idea, phone usually use more battery when there's no strong mobile signal. I don't know how it can be implemented either, but i believe Wasabi team have sufficient technical skill to do that. Although i wonder how much battery can be saved when you use Wifi rather than mobile internet.

This option exists, but not so much to save the battery, but when it comes to updating applications, and the purpose is to avoid downloading too large files over the mobile Internet because these are often limited ^{by mobile providers} with such data consumption.

As far as I know, multimedia is the biggest drainer of the battery, and in the mentioned Wasabi case, it would only be text communication, so that part should not be a problem for battery capacity. For the application, I assume that some kind of customized Tor bridge could do something like this with minimum requirements.

[Kruw]

The new version of Wasabi Wallet is in the final stages of development, you can test the release candidate here - https://github.com/adamPetho/WalletWasabi/releases/tag/v2.0.6-RC4

[examplens]

The new version of Wasabi Wallet is in the final stages of development, you can test the release candidate here - https://github.com/adamPetho/WalletWasabi/releases/tag/v2.0.6-RC4

Apart from this, there is nothing more precise or a log about what changes the new update brings? "Many more cool improvements" can mean anything

Release Highlights
Super-fast start up time 🚀
RPC improvements 🤖
UI improvements ✨
Avalonia update 🆙
Bug fixes 🐞
Blockstream Jade integration 🛠️
BitBox implementation 🛠️
Many more cool improvements 😎

[Kruw]

Apart from this, there is nothing more precise or a log about what changes the new update brings? "Many more cool improvements" can mean anything

There will be several blog posts explaining the improvements in this version. There's a lot of of subtle behavior changes that make the wallet "smarter" about when to coinjoin and when not to coinjoin, performance improvements so there's less loading and less CPU/GPU consumption, UI polish, and codebase cleanup that will make future development more productive.

[examplens]

There will be several blog posts explaining the improvements in this version. There's a lot of of subtle behavior changes that make the wallet "smarter" about when to coinjoin and when not to coinjoin, performance improvements so there's less loading and less CPU/GPU consumption, UI polish, and codebase cleanup that will make future development more productive.

I believe that it will be in the future, but I prefer to see all the changes brought by an update before I accept it. Regardless of the type of software, each new update brings a certain type of risk because it has not been fully tested in live use.

[Kruw]

I believe that it will be in the future, but I prefer to see all the changes brought by an update before I accept it. Regardless of the type of software, each new update brings a certain type of risk because it has not been fully tested in live use.

Wasabi v2.0.6 "Juggernaut" just went live! Here's the full changelog... there's 527 PRs merged  

Read more about the new update in the announcement post: https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/wasabi-latest-release-2-0-6-is-out/

Download Wasabi: https://wasabiwallet.io/#download

[bitmover]

Apart from this, there is nothing more precise or a log about what changes the new update brings? "Many more cool improvements" can mean anything

There will be several blog posts explaining the improvements in this version. There's a lot of of subtle behavior changes that make the wallet "smarter" about when to coinjoin and when not to coinjoin, performance improvements so there's less loading and less CPU/GPU consumption, UI polish, and codebase cleanup that will make future development more productive.

I will make an alert for everyone.

I was looking for your blog, and then a found a phising site . Luckily, phantom wallet (browser extension) told me about it.




This was the first Bing result when searching for 'wasabi blog android app"



Then, I learned the real website is https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/

[Kruw]

Then, I learned the real website is https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/

Yes, there are many phishing sites that appear in search results.

[Kruw]

Safety coinjoins are a new default behavior in Wasabi 2.0.6 that protect users from spending their coins in a noticeable way. Check out this new blog to learn the details: https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/exploring-secure-coinjoin-protocols/

[Julien_Olynpic]

According to the new release of Wasabi Wallet v2.0.6 - Juggernaut, the application has received new features:
1. Now the wallet supports new hardware wallets - Blockstream Jade and BitBox02.
2. The Safety Coinjoin function has appeared, which

ensures a minimum of two rounds of coinjoin for the first Bitcoin deposit into an empty wallet, preventing common coin consolidation pitfalls.

3. RPC Server Improvements: The RPC Server now offers 11 new calls.
4. The overall performance of the application has improved. Reduced wallet loading time by 60%.
5. Improved user interface. You can rename the wallet directly from the interface.
6. New PGP key for secure reporting of software vulnerabilities.
7. Also several other minor improvements.
  Releases · zkSNACKs/WalletWasabi (github.com)

[DrBeer]

Hi everyone !
I configured a new laptop, at one time put Wasabi-2.0.6

First of all the description of the changes is impressive ! It's not often to find a product whose release is similar to a new minor version in terms of fixes/improvements

And now the questions:
1. I once long ago already asked a question, or wanted to ask ... Are there considered variants of release of versions under ARM ? Or the software uses instruction sets of x86/AMD64 architecture ?
2. Why is there no folder selection in the installer ?
3. Is a portable version planned ?

[Kruw]

And now the questions:
1. I once long ago already asked a question, or wanted to ask ... Are there considered variants of release of versions under ARM ? Or the software uses instruction sets of x86/AMD64 architecture?

Yes, here's the supported versions: https://github.com/zkSNACKs/WalletWasabi/blob/master/WalletWasabi.Documentation/WasabiCompatibility.md#officially-supported-architectures

Here's an issue tracking ARM support: https://github.com/zkSNACKs/WalletWasabi/issues/4051

2. Why is there no folder selection in the installer?

There is an open feature request for this - https://github.com/zkSNACKs/WalletWasabi/issues/3456

3. Is a portable version planned?

A mobile version is on the roadmap, but there's no immediate plans to build one.

[ABCbits]

3. Is a portable version planned?

A mobile version is on the roadmap, but there's no immediate plans to build one.

By portable version, i think he actually mean something like AppImage file or single executable file (which open Wasabi when use run it).

[DrBeer]

And now the questions:
1. I once long ago already asked a question, or wanted to ask ... Are there considered variants of release of versions under ARM ? Or the software uses instruction sets of x86/AMD64 architecture?

Yes, here's the supported versions: https://github.com/zkSNACKs/WalletWasabi/blob/master/WalletWasabi.Documentation/WasabiCompatibility.md#officially-supported-architectures

Here's an issue tracking ARM support: https://github.com/zkSNACKs/WalletWasabi/issues/4051

2. Why is there no folder selection in the installer?

There is an open feature request for this - https://github.com/zkSNACKs/WalletWasabi/issues/3456

3. Is a portable version planned?

A mobile version is on the roadmap, but there's no immediate plans to build one.

Hi Kruw !
Thanks for the answers !

I will submit a request for a function to select a folder for installation - it seems to me to be a standard function, for applications.

Portable version is a little bit different, it is not mobile, but "portable", which is installed not through the installer, but conditionally speaking, by unpacking the archive into a folder selected by the user, bypassing the process of classic installation.

[bitmover]

A mobile version is on the roadmap, but there's no immediate plans to build one.

Hi Kruw !
Thanks for the answers !

I will submit a request for a function to select a folder for installation - it seems to me to be a standard function, for applications.

Portable version is a little bit different, it is not mobile, but "portable", which is installed not through the installer, but conditionally speaking, by unpacking the archive into a folder selected by the user, bypassing the process of classic installation.

Portable version is very nice.

You can put it in a pen drive, or at some cloud service , email, etc... it might be handy when you are aware of the risks.
Even electrum has one.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=154451.0

[inspace]

Can someone explain to me how I can make a CoinCoin transaction myself?

Do I understand correctly that when creating a transaction I need to add, say, 15 of my own btc addresses taken inside my Electrum wallet - with random amounts and returning the balance to the original bitcoin address using bc132131exempl, using the function (!)

And before creating a transaction, do I need to make sure that funds are sent to these addresses from 15 btc addresses? That is, I need to distribute the wallet balance into small amounts in advance. It’s just that in this case you will need at least two transactions, one for preparation, the second for CoinJoin.

[Chikito]

Just updated Wasabi 2.0.6 from the yellow logo right bottom wallet, all going smoothly and wallet loading is faster than before the update.
So please make sure after an update, if you pin Wasabi wallet on the taskbar, the file won't respond after you remove it and change to the new update on the desktop bar.

how I can make a CoinCoin transaction myself?

it's simple, You can create a new wallet using Wasabi (without using a different software wallet like electrum) by "add wallet" button. Create new wallet name > continue > and save 12 word mnemonic seed.

[Kruw]

Can someone explain to me how I can make a Coinjoin transaction myself?

Do I understand correctly that when creating a transaction I need to add, say, 15 of my own btc addresses taken inside my Electrum wallet - with random amounts and returning the balance to the original bitcoin address using bc132131exempl, using the function (!)

And before creating a transaction, do I need to make sure that funds are sent to these addresses from 15 btc addresses? That is, I need to distribute the wallet balance into small amounts in advance. It’s just that in this case you will need at least two transactions, one for preparation, the second for CoinJoin.

Coinjoins in Wasabi 2.0 are automatic. You just use your wallet normally, coinjoins will trigger after you receive new funds or create change from sending funds. If you already have funds in Electrum, you would have to send them to Wasabi using an on chain transaction since Electrum seeds can't be imported into most (any?) other wallets.

[examplens]

Coinjoins in Wasabi 2.0 are automatic. You just use your wallet normally, coinjoins will trigger after you receive new funds or create change from sending funds. If you already have funds in Electrum, you would have to send them to Wasabi using an on chain transaction since Electrum seeds can't be imported into most (any?) other wallets.

What does it mean? That means my funds will be constantly mixed and you will charge a commission?

I couldn't find a way to turn off the Coinjoin function either. If it activates automatically, it means that it is mandatory to use it in Wasabi.

What should be the deposit for CoinJoin to start working?

As I know there is nothing about minimum deposit. "Inputs of 0.01 BTC or below don't pay coordinator fees, nor do remixes, even after one transaction."

You can try with testnet, if you want to make sure before using.

[Kruw]

What does it mean? That means my funds will be constantly mixed and you will charge a commission?

Your funds are coinjoined until all of your UTXOs are private. The 0.3% coordinator fee is only charged for new deposits over 0.01 BTC, but there are mining fees for every coinjoin transaction.

What should be the deposit for CoinJoin to start working?

By default, coinjoin begins automatically once your total balance is at least 0.01 BTC. Coinjoining with a small balance is not recommended because mining fees cost a constant amount no matter what value is spent.

In what cases can my coins be blocked?

You can be temporarily blocked as an anti-DoS precaution if you disrupted a previous round by disconnecting during the signing phase, causing the coinjoin countdown to reset for all the other participants. There's also a blacklist of addresses for funds that are involved in criminal activity like phishing/malware/credit card fraud as well as those on the OFAC sanction list.

I couldn't find a way to turn off the Coinjoin function either. If it activates automatically, it means that it is mandatory to use it in Wasabi.

It's not mandatory, you can turn autocoinjoin off from the coinjoin settings in the ". . ." menu at the top right part of your client.

[examplens]

It's not mandatory, you can turn autocoinjoin off from the coinjoin settings in the ". . ." menu at the top right part of your client.

My mistake, I was looking for Coinjoin settings on the connected Ledger hardware wallet.   

[DrBeer]

....

Portable version is very nice.

You can put it in a pen drive, or at some cloud service , email, etc... it might be handy when you are aware of the risks.
Even electrum has one.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=154451.0

Portable versions are always handy. You actually get a relocatable and "mobile" (in terms of usability) application, which can also be always in your pocket. What you can't get with a full-fledged application installed in the operating system.
In short, it seems to me that if there are no technological problems, a portable version would be in high demand!

[Julien_Olynpic]

In fact, this is a very good wallet, it is unique in some way on the market. But personally, I would like to see more additional functions in it. In my opinion, he is very ascetic. It may not be bad, but personally there is a lot missing from it for me. I would ideally like to see a more developed system for recovering private information. For example:
1. Restore different seed formats. Not only 12 words, but also 15, 18, 24.
2. It is possible to restore other popular seed formats. For example, Electrum seed format.
3. Allow the encrypted seed to be restored.
4. Recovery using a private key, using an encrypted private key.
5. Multi-signature wallet support.
6. Built-in DEX.

[satscraper]

]

1. Restore different seed formats. Not only 12 words, but also 15, 18, 24.

12 words SEED is expected  to be standard in the field. Other wallets are gradually shifted to it.  

2. It is possible to restore other popular seed formats. For example, Electrum seed format.

Would be bad feature. First, it would be confusing. Second, putting the use of SEED belonging to  any other wallet (including Electrum) is a bad practice. I'm against it.

6. Built-in DEX.

Not necessary to implement the stuff that could threaten the code integrity and potentially to user's stash.

3. Allow the encrypted seed to be restored.

Not clear for me. SEED is not encrypted.

[ABCbits]

In fact, this is a very good wallet, it is unique in some way on the market. But personally, I would like to see more additional functions in it. In my opinion, he is very ascetic. It may not be bad, but personally there is a lot missing from it for me. I would ideally like to see a more developed system for recovering private information. For example:
1. Restore different seed formats. Not only 12 words, but also 15, 18, 24.
2. It is possible to restore other popular seed formats. For example, Electrum seed format.
3. Allow the encrypted seed to be restored.
4. Recovery using a private key, using an encrypted private key.
5. Multi-signature wallet support.
6. Built-in DEX.

1. I haven't tried it, but i expect it should be possible since Wasabi explicitly state they support BIP 39. Source, https://docs.wasabiwallet.io/using-wasabi/BIPs.html.
2. I agree with @satscraper here. In addition, user should be encouraged to move their Bitcoin from Electrum to Wasabi by creating one or more transaction.
3. In case you refer to additional text or passphrase when you generate BIP 39, it's not encryption feature.
4. It's good idea, although i expect it'll supported in form of sweeping the coins (which associated with the private key) to address on opened wallet.
5. CoinJoin is big part of Wasabi, so personally i don't expect it'll be supported since you need to sign transaction many times quickly during CoinJoin process.
6. I also agree with @satscraper it's not really needed.

[Kruw]

In fact, this is a very good wallet, it is unique in some way on the market. But personally, I would like to see more additional functions in it. In my opinion, he is very ascetic. It may not be bad, but personally there is a lot missing from it for me. I would ideally like to see a more developed system for recovering private information. For example:
1. Restore different seed formats. Not only 12 words, but also 15, 18, 24.
2. It is possible to restore other popular seed formats. For example, Electrum seed format.
3. Allow the encrypted seed to be restored.
4. Recovery using a private key, using an encrypted private key.
5. Multi-signature wallet support.
6. Built-in DEX.

1. You can restore 12, 18, or 24 word seeds but you can only create 12 word seeds.
2. There's downsides to even adding this as an advanced option. First, the Bitcoin community should try to work towards standardization instead of creating a maze of cross compatibility complexity. Second, since Electrum connects to public servers by default, users who want to coinjoin should generate new keys that haven't been shared.
3/4. There's a lot of ways to encrypt things, it wouldn't be worthwhile to try to support that functionality.
5. That's a good potential feature, but I don't expect it to be on the roadmap anytime soon. Perhaps try Liana Wallet if you want to use multisig.
6. That would be a huge leap. You might like this article: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/dlcs-evolving-to-meet-institutional-needs

[bitmover]

1. Restore different seed formats. Not only 12 words, but also 15, 18, 24.
....
6. Built-in DEX.

These two features are mostly for altcoins.

AFAIK, wallets with so many words are multicurrency wallet. I agree with Kruw, it is enough to be able to import seeds with different seed formats.

Why would you want dex? To use altcoins, such as ERC-20 USDT? This is not the point of this wallet. This is a bitcoin wallet, with bitcoin advanced privacy features.

[examplens]

Why would you want dex? To use altcoins, such as ERC-20 USDT? This is not the point of this wallet. This is a bitcoin wallet, with bitcoin advanced privacy features.

Maybe not for ERC-20, but maybe some time at some point BRC20. It's kind of part of the Bitcoin network.
To be clear, I would not support something like this, nor am I a fan of tokens on the btc blockchain.

[bitmover]

Why would you want dex? To use altcoins, such as ERC-20 USDT? This is not the point of this wallet. This is a bitcoin wallet, with bitcoin advanced privacy features.

Maybe not for ERC-20, but maybe some time at some point BRC20. It's kind of part of the Bitcoin network.
To be clear, I would not support something like this, nor am I a fan of tokens on the btc blockchain.

There used to be USDT in OMNI network, and I even saw now some Liquid Tether in bitcoin Liquid network (https://aquawallet.io/)

Anyway, I think this is not the purpose of this wallet

[Julien_Olynpic]

3. In case you refer to additional text or passphrase when you generate BIP 39, it's not encryption feature.

Perhaps I expressed myself incorrectly. I mean BIP-39 seed, that is, a seed hashed using a passphrase. You import the hashed mnemonic (that is, BIP-39 seed) into the wallet, and then insert the passphrase. In my opinion, support for such a thing is a wonderful thing. It adds a little security.

6. That would be a huge leap. You might like this article:

Thank you for your opinion. True, I didn’t understand much from the article, but I think that it would be nice to have some kind of platform for exchanging at least Bitcoin for some other currency, for example, Monero. I think it would be worth thinking about this idea. Wasabi is a really nice wallet. He is one of the leaders in his niche. But it has very few functions. It is like a store that only sells one product. I agree that sometimes this is enough. Some users ask why I need Dex. This is not necessarily dex in the traditional sense of the word. But you must admit that it is strange that we care so much about our privacy, mix transactions of different users, use an open source wallet and constantly talk about decentralization, but at the same time we send bitcoins for sale on centralized exchanges, where we are often forced to undergo a QUS. Isn't this ridiculous? Why then all this confidentiality if we do not have the opportunity to sell the cue ball or at least exchange it for some confidential coin inside the wallet and without KUS? After all, Bitcoin trading is a basic thing that Bitcoin enthusiasts need.

[satscraper]

3. In case you refer to additional text or passphrase when you generate BIP 39, it's not encryption feature.

Perhaps I expressed myself incorrectly. I mean BIP-39 seed, that is, a seed hashed using a passphrase. You import the hashed mnemonic (that is, BIP-39 seed) into the wallet, and then insert the passphrase. In my opinion, support for such a thing is a wonderful thing. It adds a little security.

It is already there.

When you add to SEED phrase the password the latter is attached to the end of SEED at hashing and all stuff is hashed together. This is irreversible one-way action. BIP38 encrypted blob is in fact  also the one-way hash,   "Decryption" of  both resulting hashes  sounds as a nonsense.

Safely keep both  BIP39 Seed and passphrase to have access to wallet at any circumstance.

[Kruw]

Users who upgrade to Wasabi v2.0.6 benefit from a 60% faster loading time! Find out why in our newest blog post: https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/load-time-reduced-by-an-additional-60-in-version-2-0-6/

[ABCbits]

Users who upgrade to Wasabi v2.0.6 benefit from a 60% faster loading time! Find out why in our newest blog post: https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/load-time-reduced-by-an-additional-60-in-version-2-0-6/

Finally Wasabi move away from plaintext format, although few people liked it since they can open and read it easily. But here's a question, does that mean we can open the wallet using SQLite viewer/explorer to see the data/encrypted data?

[Kruw]

Wasabi's default minimum coinjoin size has increased by 20%! Bigger coinjoins improve block space efficiency and provide better privacy for all participants.

Before: 150 inputs
Now: 180 inputs

This change introduces a tolerance for rounds that started with enough inputs, but failed to gain all the required signatures. Now, if there are less than 180 inputs eligible from the initial round, another round will be attempted as long as there are at least 150 remaining.

Since this change was deployed 10 days ago, the average anon score gain of each coinjoin output has increased from 6.5 to over 8, reducing the total amount of remixing users needed for users to reach their privacy targets!

[Kruw]

The BitBox02 hardware wallet is now supported by Wasabi in version 2.0.6! Our newest blog covers the steps to connect and use the device:

https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/use-bitbox02-with-wasabi/

[examplens]

The BitBox02 hardware wallet is now supported by Wasabi in version 2.0.6! Our newest blog covers the steps to connect and use the device:

https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/use-bitbox02-with-wasabi/

There are 4 different wallet icons, I recognized Ledger and Trezor. Now also Bitbox, but which fourth model is compatible with Wasabi wallet?

[Kruw]

There are 4 different wallet icons, I recognized Ledger and Trezor. Now also Bitbox, but which fourth model is compatible with Wasabi wallet?

The other supported hardware devices are Coldcard by Coinkite and Jade by Blockstream.

[Kruw]

Coinjoins are a guessing game, and additional randomness in the new 2.0.6 version of Wasabi makes that game even harder for anyone trying to track your Bitcoin transactions.

But it’s not random like a fair dice, there’s some artificial luck added. Learn how user choices and the current fee rate affect your chances of coinjoining: https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/smart-randomness-skipping-coinjoin-rounds-based-on-fee-rate/

[Wind_FURY]

Coinjoins are a guessing game, and additional randomness in the new 2.0.6 version of Wasabi makes that game even harder for anyone trying to track your Bitcoin transactions.

But it’s not random like a fair dice, there’s some artificial luck added. Learn how user choices and the current fee rate affect your chances of coinjoining: https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/smart-randomness-skipping-coinjoin-rounds-based-on-fee-rate/

I'm merely curious. I know that amateur blockchain "analysts" will truly find it very difficult to trace transactions that went through a CoinJoin application. But can anyone with 100% confidence say that transactions that went through CoinJoins can't be traced by state-level analysis? Because what is it all truly going against, if it's not state-level spying?

[Kruw]

Privacy warnings and suggestions is an exclusive feature in Wasabi, and it got even better in v2.0.6! Check out our new blog to learn the benefits of the feature: https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/only-wasabi-privacy-warnings/

The client runs branch and bound coin selection algorithm to find an input set that's close to your desired payment amount, so that you can send a little more or less sats in a transaction that doesn't create a change output.

That means you don't have non-private coins in your wallet after the payment, and you don't need to do another coinjoin round.

Yet another blockspace savings technology in Wasabi!

I'm merely curious. I know that amateur blockchain "analysts" will truly find it very difficult to trace transactions that went through a CoinJoin application. But can anyone with 100% confidence say that transactions that went through CoinJoins can't be traced by state-level analysis? Because what is it all truly going against, if it's not state-level spying?

The state is the final boss of the threat model. If you take a blackpilled stance that 3-letter-agencies have compromised users at the OS level (Windows, Mac) or at the hardware level, or have the ability to deanonymize the Tor network, then I'm not sure what privacy tech can defend you against that.

[Kruw]

This coinjoin was filled with whales! There were 23 matching outputs of the highest denomination (1.34217728 BTC) - https://mempool.space/tx/e16467598a520e9d58046f411d1b9bc36f9f6b5d274e974f6a3e80f75537aa18

Number of inputs: 351
Number of outputs: 381
Amount: 51.72729648 BTC
Fee rate: 14.12 sats/vbyte
Average Input anonset: 7.02
Average Output anonset: 13.14

[Wind_FURY]

I'm merely curious. I know that amateur blockchain "analysts" will truly find it very difficult to trace transactions that went through a CoinJoin application. But can anyone with 100% confidence say that transactions that went through CoinJoins can't be traced by state-level analysis? Because what is it all truly going against, if it's not state-level spying?

The state is the final boss of the threat model. If you take a blackpilled stance that 3-letter-agencies have compromised users at the OS level (Windows, Mac) or at the hardware level, or have the ability to deanonymize the Tor network, then I'm not sure what privacy tech can defend you against that.

Thank you for the sincere and honest reply ser. I believe other people would have taken the irresponsible path and continued to make a bullcrap post about how state-level actors would "never" trace "x-transactions" because "x-technology". Although cryptography is being used as a tool to make social and political change, and I simply hope the developers who are fighting for the users will continue making their apps better even if the monetary rewards are low.

[Kruw]

Usually, you can use Wasabi on your desktop app.

But the RPC, or Remote Procedure Call, interface allows you to use the wallet programmatically and even find hidden features!

How do you use Wasabi's RPC interface? What is it? You can read our latest blog to find out all about it, including examples of actual commands you can run: https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/use-wasabi-rpc-interface/

[Kruw]

A whale with 850 BTC went anonymous in this coinjoin: https://mempool.space/tx/da90d4fcee3d3965d23aef486065d317ce069f7e43751018443b3a4e0901394e

[BlackHatCoiner]

A whale with 850 BTC went anonymous in this coinjoin: https://mempool.space/tx/da90d4fcee3d3965d23aef486065d317ce069f7e43751018443b3a4e0901394e

Two questions of mine.

• How do you know there is a whale of 850 BTC? I see four separate inputs of 200, 200, 200 and 249 BTC. Couldn't there be four people with the respective inputs separately instead of one?
• Isn't it apparent that the 171.79869184 BTC outputs are likely related to these four inputs?

[Kruw]

Two questions of mine.

• How do you know there is a whale of 850 BTC? I see four separate inputs of 200, 200, 200 and 249 BTC. Couldn't there be four people with the respective inputs separately instead of one?
• Isn't it apparent that the 171.79869184 BTC outputs are likely related to these four inputs?

In this particular case, a careful observer is able to determine the 200/200/200/249 inputs all belong to the same user because the change output from each of the 200 BTC coins were consolidated when creating the 249 BTC coin. However, the coinjoin amount decomposer behaves as if these coins have different potential owners (creating 4 outputs of 171.79869184 BTC), so it would have been more block space efficient if the whale had just created a single 850 BTC UTXO.

[BlackHatCoiner]

However, the coinjoin amount decomposer behaves as if these coins have different potential owners (creating 4 outputs of 171.79869184 BTC), so it would have been more block space efficient if the whale had just created a single 850 BTC UTXO.

It'd be more block space efficient if it'd done that, yes, but in both cases the whale gains no anonymity. The probability of these 171.79 outputs being owned by the whale is 100%. The sum of the inputs after the 200/200/200/249 inputs is about 40 BTC, meaning that no other participant could have created an output of 171.79 BTC.

[Kruw]

It'd be more block space efficient if it'd done that, yes, but in both cases the whale gains no anonymity. The probability of these 171.79 outputs being owned by the whale is 100%. The sum of the inputs after the 200/200/200/249 inputs is about 40 BTC, meaning that no other participant could have created an output of 171.79 BTC.

Correct. If the whale had not linked his change outputs together outside of the coinjoin, then the probability of guessing a 171.79 BTC output belonging to any specific 200+ BTC input would be 25% instead since they could potentially come from different users.

[BlackHatCoiner]

It'd be more block space efficient if it'd done that, yes, but in both cases the whale gains no anonymity. The probability of these 171.79 outputs being owned by the whale is 100%. The sum of the inputs after the 200/200/200/249 inputs is about 40 BTC, meaning that no other participant could have created an output of 171.79 BTC.

Correct.

This contradicts your other post, in which you claim that the whale went anonymous.

If the whale had not linked his change outputs together outside of the coinjoin, then the probability of guessing a 171.79 BTC output belonging to any specific 200+ BTC input would be 25% instead since they could potentially come from different users.

Shouldn't Wasabi software automatically check and prevent what just happened? It is the user's fault to consolidate the change of the 200/200/200/249 outputs, but it's Wasabi's fault when it wastes block space and gives them the impression that their coinjoined coins are now private.

[Kruw]

This contradicts your other post, in which you claim that the whale went anonymous.

He did go anonymous. There's an additional ~40 BTC in liquidity from other users in the round that obfuscates the ownership of the outputs smaller than 171.79 BTC. Then, the 4 leftover 171.79 BTC outputs finished reducing into untraceable coins in each of the following rounds they remixed in.

Shouldn't Wasabi software automatically check and prevent what just happened? It is the user's fault to consolidate the change of the 200/200/200/249 outputs, but it's Wasabi's fault when it wastes block space and gives them the impression that their coinjoined coins are now private.

The user doesn't get the impression the coins are private, the 171.79 BTC outputs still have an anonymity score of 1 and keep the original label from the origin transaction.

[BlackHatCoiner]

He did go anonymous. There's an additional ~40 BTC in liquidity from other users in the round that obfuscates the ownership of the outputs smaller than 171.79 BTC.

Right, sorry. About 5% of their coins were anonymized. My bad. 

The user doesn't get the impression the coins are private, the 171.79 BTC outputs still have an anonymity score of 1 and keep the original label from the origin transaction.

And the question remains. Shouldn't the coordinator check and prevent the waste of 4 inputs and 4 outputs in the WabiSabi coinjoin? If it displays an anonymity score of 1, then it means it's already analyzed that the 200/200/200/249 inputs make the 171.79 outputs, otherwise it'd return slightly more than that (25% chance for each). Why should it spend an input to create another output with no added anonymity score?

[Kruw]

And the question remains. Shouldn't the coordinator check and prevent the waste of 4 inputs and 4 outputs in the WabiSabi coinjoin?

The coordinator does not dictate the output amounts, clients choose their own outputs.

If it displays an anonymity score of 1, then it means it's already analyzed that the 200/200/200/249 inputs make the 171.79 outputs, otherwise it'd return slightly more than that (25% chance for each). Why should it spend an input to create another output with no added anonymity score?

To a naive outside observer, the anonymity score of the 171.79 outputs is 4. It's only possible to determine the 200+ BTC inputs have a common owner due to the change merged before the coinjoin took place, but the whale's client knows it owns all those UTXOs regardless.

[FinneysTrueVision]

Why should it spend an input to create another output with no added anonymity score?

Even if the 171.79 outputs didn’t gain any privacy in this round, they still needed to be divided into smaller amounts to gain privacy in further rounds. This whale also registered an additional 200 BTC in another round for a total of 1050 BTC. When most rounds have well under that amount in total liquidity, reaching the 100% privacy target is going to be a long process and there will be some large coins which might not gain much privacy initially.

[BlackHatCoiner]

The coordinator does not dictate the output amounts, clients choose their own outputs.

Even that way, shouldn't the client prevent wasting that block space? Why would the client allow you to join coins that will not get better in terms of privacy?

Even if the 171.79 outputs didn’t gain any privacy in this round, they still needed to be divided into smaller amounts to gain privacy in further rounds.

Why don't they get divided in small amounts in the first place? If you follow the remixes, you can notice that the amounts are still big. It would be more appropriate if instead of four 171.79 outputs, there were more lower in value outputs, which could be probable suspects for the other inputs as well.

What I don't like about Wasabi coinjoins is that the outputs don't have the same link probability. A 5000 sat output doesn't have the same link probability with a 10 BTC, because the former can be produced with any combination of the inputs, as opposed to the latter. (i.e., any input and combination of inputs can create a 5000 sat output, but not a 10 BTC, because for example, a 1 mBTC cannot create a 10 BTC output alone).

[Kruw]

Even that way, shouldn't the client prevent wasting that block space? Why would the client allow you to join coins that will not get better in terms of privacy?

These extra outputs 171.79 outputs preserve the privacy of the 200/200/200/249 inputs by making them appear like they are potentially owned by different users. You pointed this out at the beginning of our conversation:

How do you know there is a whale of 850 BTC? I see four separate inputs of 200, 200, 200 and 249 BTC. Couldn't there be four people with the respective inputs separately instead of one?

If a 687 BTC output were created instead, that would definitively reveal the top 4 inputs were owned by the same user since there's no other combination of inputs in the round that could create an output that large.

Why don't they get divided in small amounts in the first place? If you follow the remixes, you can notice that the amounts are still big. It would be more appropriate if instead of four 171.79 outputs, there were more lower in value outputs, which could be probable suspects for the other inputs as well.

There's diminishing marginal returns for each clone of a the same denomination you create. The behavior you are describing is exhibited in this coinjoin transaction with a medium sized whale: https://mempool.space/tx/9944645e87447262a6c8c4cdc3914a86b06c238809f8b7cb433c4a5fbd34fa2f

What I don't like about Wasabi coinjoins is that the outputs don't have the same link probability. A 5000 sat output doesn't have the same link probability with a 10 BTC, because the former can be produced with any combination of the inputs, as opposed to the latter. (i.e., any input and combination of inputs can create a 5000 sat output, but not a 10 BTC, because for example, a 1 mBTC cannot create a 10 BTC output alone).

There's a "MaxSuggestedAmount" value given for each round and a minimum allowed amount. You could coordinate a "whale round" by adjusting these parameters.

[BlackHatCoiner]

These extra outputs 171.79 outputs preserve the privacy of the 200/200/200/249 inputs by making them appear like they are potentially owned by different users.

They preserve nothing. It is trivial for everyone with a slight knowledge on blockchain heuristics to figure out that the 200/200/200/249 inputs are owned by the same entity, and therefore so are the 171.79. You pointed it out yourself.

You pointed this out at the beginning of our conversation

I don't do blockchain analysis, and that's why I didn't figure it out at the beginning. It drew my attention when you confidently said they are provably owned by one entity, a little after you proudly claimed that the whale went anonymous.  

If a 687 BTC output were created instead, that would definitively reveal the top 4 inputs were owned by the same user since there's no other combination of inputs in the round that could create an output that large.

• I never said the client should create a 687 BTC output instead of four 171.79.
• The top four inputs are definitely owned by the same user regardless if the output was a 687 BTC or four 171.79.

Why don't they get divided in small amounts in the first place? If you follow the remixes, you can notice that the amounts are still big. It would be more appropriate if instead of four 171.79 outputs, there were more lower in value outputs, which could be probable suspects for the other inputs as well.

There's diminishing marginal returns for each clone of a the same denomination you create. The behavior you are describing is exhibited in this coinjoin transaction with a medium sized whale: https://mempool.space/tx/9944645e87447262a6c8c4cdc3914a86b06c238809f8b7cb433c4a5fbd34fa2f

What's "diminishing marginal returns"? First time hearing this. And why didn't it work in the 200/200/200/249 coinjoin?

[Kruw]

They preserve nothing. It is trivial for everyone with a slight knowledge on blockchain heuristics to figure out that the 200/200/200/249 inputs are owned by the same entity, and therefore so are the 171.79. You pointed it out yourself. I don't do blockchain analysis, and that's why I didn't figure it out at the beginning. It drew my attention when you confidently said they are provably owned by one entity, a little after you proudly claimed that the whale went anonymous.

Exactly. When you just looked at the coinjoin transaction, you weren't able to determine these inputs were controlled by the same user since WabiSabi prevents input to input links from being revealed.

I never said the client should create a 687 BTC output instead of four 171.79.

What should the client do then?

What's "diminishing marginal returns"? First time hearing this.

In this transaction, the biggest whale with 42.9 BTC probably created 8 out of the 11 outputs for 5 BTC. Although there's a fractional amount of privacy gained on each of these outputs immediately from this coinjoin, the tradeoff is that the big whale can't merge several of these 5 BTC outputs for a payment in the future without indicating which input created it. So, if the difference between the whale and the next largest input is too large, it's best for the whale to just to keep leftover change to attempt in another round instead of aggressively trying split the entire amount in a single round.

And why didn't it work in the 200/200/200/249 coinjoin?

It did work in that coinjoin. An example of this "not working" would be the creation of an identifiable change output instead, which you can see in this coinjoin with a 469 BTC whale: https://mempool.space/tx/dd2c923c3cb73ea59e54f8319bab0b72c3a06abfe6cd517c8167957eecdf16a2

It took him 5 rounds until another big enough whale showed up to create large outputs without a direct link: https://mempool.space/tx/fb596c9f675471019c60e984b569f9020dac3b2822b16396042b50c890b45e5e

[BlackHatCoiner]

Exactly. When you just looked at the coinjoin transaction, you weren't able to determine these inputs were controlled by the same user since WabiSabi prevents input to input links from being revealed.

Strawman. I never claimed that by looking at the coinjoin you can tell that the whale inputs are controlled by the same user. But, information from past transactions does reveal it, and Wasabi software preserves no privacy in that case. Only wasted block space.

What should the client do then?

Create lower value outputs that have less link probability. For example, instead of a 171.79 output, you could have 171 1.0 BTC outputs.

So, if the difference between the whale and the next largest input is too large, it's best for the whale to just to keep leftover change to attempt in another round instead of aggressively trying split the entire amount in a single round.

Wouldn't it be more appropriate if it split the entire amount in a single round and then leave it for future remixes? Also, when you say "leftover change", to which thing are you referring specifically?

[Kruw]

Strawman. I never claimed that by looking at the coinjoin you can tell that the whale inputs are controlled by the same user. But, information from past transactions does reveal it, and Wasabi software preserves no privacy in that case. Only wasted block space.

Exactly, if the whale posted a screenshot of his wallet history publicly on this Bitcointalk thread, then Wasabi's software wouldn't preserve any privacy in that case either.

Create lower value outputs that have less link probability. For example, instead of a 171.79 output, you could have 171 1.0 BTC outputs. Wouldn't it be more appropriate if it split the entire amount in a single round and then leave it for future remixes?

That would cost an enormous amount of block space to gain almost zero privacy for these outputs. The whale would not be able to merge several of these outputs in future payments without revealing the inputs that created them. Since there would be a >90% chance of guessing correctly with blind luck, it's better to wait for the next round and wait to use block space to create UTXOs that have a larger set of potential matches instead.

Additionally, allowing unbounded creation of outputs introduces a DoS vector. There's a "vsize credential" issued that prevents a malicious actor from trying to create an oversized coinjoin that doesn't fit inside the boundaries of Bitcoin Core's standard mempool relay policy or the consensus rules of the block itself.

Also, when you say "leftover change", to which thing are you referring specifically?

The 463.78287231 BTC output in bc1q3qtu3xgegsetnptn80cdjx5dmlkk7ephvdkhuw is leftover change created by the 469.06443079 BTC input from bc1ql7vr6ht0l7tqq803wedsdkalanjtswdna07wmf

[BlackHatCoiner]

Exactly, if the whale posted a screenshot of his wallet history publicly on this Bitcointalk thread, then Wasabi's software wouldn't preserve any privacy in that case either.

Peak whataboutism. The coordinator can check if the inputs and outputs are owned by the same entity, and is simply not configured to save the wasted space. You can choose to blame the user all you like, but that's the fact. 


In other news, Wasabi's default coordinator refuses to mix a "clean" coinbase tx0, because it flags their chain analysis filters. 


(from: https://t.me/SamouraiWallet, in March 25)

[Kruw]

The coordinator can check if the inputs and outputs are owned by the same entity

No they can't, coordinators don't learn that inputs or outputs in a coinjoin belong to the same entity. That information is hidden from the coordinator using cryptography and Tor.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Same soundbites. Continuously engaging in strawman arguments. Over, and over, and over again, 'til the end of time. Deliberately ignoring my points. You yourself have said that it's possible for a careful observer to tell that the 200/200/200/249 inputs are certainly connected with the 171 outputs.

If the coordinator does not have this information, then you either lied about the input output connection (which you didn't as anyone can verify with basic blockchain heuristics), or the coordinator is not configured to be a careful observer. Or, you know, the client software is problematic and chooses to waste block space because it can't tell before joining, that the 171 outputs are seemed as provably owned by one entity.  

[Kruw]

Same soundbites. Continuously engaging in strawman arguments. Over, and over, and over again, 'til the end of time. Deliberately ignoring my points.

Why are you so frustrated? I'm answering your questions directly, what point are you claiming I've ignored? Provide a direct quote.

You yourself have said that it's possible for a careful observer to tell that the 200/200/200/249 inputs are certainly connected with the 171 outputs.

Yes, I mentioned this is a particular case where non coinjoin transactions the user made in other wallets allow a careful observer (not the coordinator specifically, anyone with a copy of a the blockchain can observe this) to find out these inputs are owned by the same user:

In this particular case, a careful observer is able to determine the 200/200/200/249 inputs all belong to the same user because the change output from each of the 200 BTC coins were consolidated when creating the 249 BTC coin.

If the coordinator does not have this information, then you either lied about the input output connection (which you didn't as anyone can verify with basic blockchain heuristics), or the coordinator is not configured to be a careful observer.

I already explained to you that the coordinator does not choose the output amounts:

The coordinator does not dictate the output amounts, clients choose their own outputs.

Or, you know, the client software is problematic and chooses to waste block space because it can't tell before joining, that the 171 outputs are seemed as provably owned by one entity.  

Why do you consider it problematic that the client is not aware of the transactions you did before you started using the client?

[FinneysTrueVision]

Or, you know, the client software is problematic and chooses to waste block space because it can't tell before joining, that the 171 outputs are seemed as provably owned by one entity.  

The client didn’t choose to waste block space. The user created these coins in a different wallet and sent them to Wasabi. The user’s settings allowed them to register 4 inputs in this round, where they gained privacy on a portion on their 850 BTC. The 171 BTC outputs are a rare case of non-private change being created because one participant had a much larger amount of BTC than everybody else. The client is aware these are non-private coins and would’ve registered their BTC in future rounds until the full amount was private.

Any method of trying to make it more block space efficient seems like it would be impractical, doesn’t give any privacy, and wouldn’t save a meaningful amount of block space in this user’s mixing process as a whole.

[BlackHatCoiner]

It just doesn't make sense. It is argued that when the user joins their 200/200/200/249 inputs, they do not get the impression that their 171 outputs are private. This means that the Wasabi client can tell that there is no privacy improvement (e.g., will display anonymity score 1). On the other hand, I'm getting told that the client cannot or should not know the history of the coins before the user sent them to the client.

I don't have a Wasabi wallet, my conclusions are drawn by forum discussions only. Please someone tell me how it's possible for the client to have no idea about the history of the coins (which reveals that these inputs belong to the same user) and simultaneously display an anonymity score of 1 (such that it wouldn't give the user the impression that the 171 outputs are private).

[Kruw]

It just doesn't make sense. It is argued that when the user joins their 200/200/200/249 inputs, they do not get the impression that their 171 outputs are private. This means that the Wasabi client can tell that there is no privacy improvement (e.g., will display anonymity score 1).

Correct. There is a privacy improvement from the perspective of outside users since they have to consider the 171 outputs as having an anonymity score of 4. However, the whale's client is aware it owns all 4 of these outputs, so it doesn't increase the score past 1.

I don't have a Wasabi wallet, my conclusions are drawn bu forum discussions only. Please someone tell me how it's possible for the client to have no idea about the history of the coins (which reveals that these inputs belong to the same user) and simultaneously display an anonymity score of 1 (such that it wouldn't give the user the impression that the 171 outputs are private).

The client has more information than outside observers because it knows its own outputs. That's why the score is 1 in the client, but the score is 4 for outsiders looking directly at the coinjoin.

[BlackHatCoiner]

However, the whale's client is aware it owns all 4 of these outputs, so it doesn't increase the score past 1.

That's not how it's supposed to work, then. You don't want anonymity score based on your knowledge. Obviously, no matter how many coinjoins, of what size, the anonymity score would always be 1 for you, because you know what you own. The anonymity score that is displayed (if any) should pinpoint the knowledge of other people based on the transaction and blockchain history. You don't want to hide from yourself, you want to hide from other people.

That's why the score is 1 in the client, but the score is 4 for outsiders looking directly at the coinjoin.

Which is simply not true. Everyone with access to the blockchain can tell that the real anonymity score is 1. It is 4 if you didn't have knowledge prior the coinjoin.

[Kruw]

You don't want to hide from yourself, you want to hide from other people.

That's exactly why the client keeps the score as 1 for those outputs instead of giving them a score of 4. This makes sense because anyone attempting to guess would be correct 100% of the time due to no other actual participants of that size to incorrectly guess.

Which is simply not true. Everyone with access to the blockchain can tell that the real anonymity score is 1. It is 4 if you didn't have knowledge prior the coinjoin.

Exactly, I pointed out how it would have been more efficient for the whale to simply create a single 850 BTC input instead:

It would have been more block space efficient if the whale had just created a single 850 BTC UTXO.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I think my conclusions are rather valid, and you're just trying to move the goalposts.

• If the client displays an anonymity score of 1, then it means the coinjoined coins are not private for anyone with blockchain access.
• If the client can work out the anonymity score, it means it knows the history of the inputs.
• If it knows the history of the inputs, then it's the client's fault to waste block space for creating four 171 BTC outputs that are provably owned by one user.
• If it doesn't know the history of the inputs, then you're lying and the anonymity score displayed is not 1.

[Kruw]

If the client displays an anonymity score of 1, then it means the coinjoined coins are not private for anyone with blockchain access.

The coins are private for everyone with blockchain access, you pointed this out at the beginning of our conversation:

How do you know there is a whale of 850 BTC? I see four separate inputs of 200, 200, 200 and 249 BTC. Couldn't there be four people with the respective inputs separately instead of one?

The reason the client displays an anonymity score of 1 is because it knows it owns all of the outputs of a specific size in the transaction. No other peers of the same size means no score increase.

[BlackHatCoiner]

The coins are private for everyone with blockchain access, you pointed this out at the beginning of our conversation

Okay, so you're going to deliberately ignore your own post. Got it.  

To a naive outside observer, the anonymity score of the 171.79 outputs is 4. It's only possible to determine the 200+ BTC inputs have a common owner due to the change merged before the coinjoin took place, but the whale's client knows it owns all those UTXOs regardless.

[Kruw]

Okay, so you're going to deliberately ignore your own post. Got it.  

It was your post I referenced, not mine:

How do you know there is a whale of 850 BTC? I see four separate inputs of 200, 200, 200 and 249 BTC. Couldn't there be four people with the respective inputs separately instead of one?

You correctly argued that there could be 4 people with these respective inputs since the 171 BTC sized outputs are small enough to be created by any of these single inputs by themselves. The information that indicates otherwise comes from tracing the non-coinjoin transactions he did from his non-Wasabi wallet.

[Kruw]

The new release of Wasabi is ready for testing! 2.0.7 RC3 is available here - https://github.com/molnard/WalletWasabi/releases/tag/v207rc3

[Dont Trust Verify]

In other news, Wasabi's default coordinator refuses to mix a "clean" coinbase tx0, because it flags their chain analysis filters.  

https://talkimg.com/images/2024/04/07/Vi8BD.png
(from: https://t.me/SamouraiWallet, in March 25)

How would that user know they were banned because of bad chainalysis and not connectivity issues, which it’s common to have with Tor? Samourai also bans coins, but when you try to ask them about it TDev will give a nonsense word salad reply or accuse you, without any evidence whatsoever, of being a malicious actor from Wasabi trying to attack their coinjoins.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/04/15/jzbxP.jpeg
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/04/15/jzKoc.jpeg

[Kruw]

Wasabi Wallet 2.0.7 has just been released! Learn about all the new changes made in this version in our announcement blog post - https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/intro-release-2-0-7/

Download at the official website wasabiwallet.io or get the open source code from GitHub - Key features in this release:

 🫥 New user interface
 🔒 Trezor Safe 3 support
 🚀 Full RBF detection
 ⚠️ Better privacy warnings
 🥷🏼 Password is now called passphrase
 🎛️ New sorting option
 🐛 Bug fixes and security improvements

Check out the release notes here - https://github.com/zkSNACKs/WalletWasabi/releases/tag/v2.0.7.1

[BlackHatCoiner]

How would that user know they were banned because of bad chainalysis and not connectivity issues, which it’s common to have with Tor?

I guess, we will never find out. Perhaps the software might flag it as "naughty" and it might be verifiable in the client's debug log, but it doesn't matter much, because the coordinator could have blacklist it and blame it to connection issues.

Samourai also bans coins, but when you try to ask them about it TDev will give a nonsense word salad reply or accuse you, without any evidence whatsoever, of being a malicious actor from Wasabi trying to attack their coinjoins.

I mean, I know. TDev is a jerk. I once tried to make a question in their Telegram, and the guy censored my messages simply because they had already been answered years ago, aka "use the search". And yes, in every coinjoin implementation there's "coin ban". If you start DDoSing, or provide invalid signatures, then the coordinator is programmed to ban you. That's entirely different and understandable. The problem comes when you censor based on ethics.

[PrivacyG]

I am more surprised by the amount freely bypassing the Blockchain Analysis company filter rather than the nonsensical arguments Kruw brings all the time anyway.  You could get a better answer from the echo of a cave than what Kruw argues.

So over FIFTY MILLION Dollars went through the Coin Join and your Blockchain Analysis partner did not bat a single eyelash about it?  It circles straight back to my initial fears about Wasabi now becoming a great tool for politicians and wealthy people who are ACTUALLY criminals as a simple bribe can result in a bypass to further Anonymize illicit funds.

Now I really wonder how this works.  If I deposit 850 Bitcoin to ANY Centralized Exchange, I would most certainly be requested documentation immediately given the immense amount deposited.  It is no ordinary deposit.  Hell.  Here in my country, even market cashiers check the legitimacy of Bank notes if you pay for groceries worth more than a few hundred Dollars.

So how does this filter works exactly?  In fact.  How about we get an answer straight from the Analysis firm themselves?  Curiosity is now at an All Time High for me.  Why did the Blockchain Analysis firm decide to close an eye to this amount?

[Kruw]

So over FIFTY MILLION Dollars went through the Coin Join and your Blockchain Analysis partner did not bat a single eyelash about it?  It circles straight back to my initial fears about Wasabi now becoming a great tool for politicians and wealthy people who are ACTUALLY criminals as a simple bribe can result in a bypass to further Anonymize illicit funds.

Being rich is not a crime. Only socialist propaganda claims otherwise.

[Kruw]

The Trezor Safe 3 is now supported in Wasabi Wallet in v2.0.7. This new device from Satoshilabs includes a secure element to protect your keys against attackers who physically access the device. Learn more in today's blog post: https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/latest-hardware-wallet-integration-trezor-safe-3-on-wasabi/

[Kruw]

Wasabi is 7 years old today!  Nopara73 originally launched the project as "Hidden Wallet" in 2017 - https://github.com/zkSNACKs/WalletWasabi/commit/062d4df2427f6b829c403a0e261e30e5c97d2a5f

[Kruw]

The new release of Wasabi bundles cutting edge privacy technology with a smoother user experience.  v2.0.7 boasts a completely updated interface that enhances the classic, easy-to-use design of the software. Compare the differences detailed in today's blog post: https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/ui-enhancements-in-v2-0-7/

[icopress]

[Kruw]

A 325 BTC whale entered the coinjoin pool 

https://mempool.space/tx/08bec8e75142fb3dbf7fc22310c4aebc03f4d68f2ecbfe2cc96c14e135b484ba

[alani123]

What is the assessment here? Are Wassabi developers comfortable continuing to operate their company and develop their projects as they currently do given the developments regarding Samurai wallet? Hopefully it through reduced to no US ties they will have no problems.

[ABCbits]

What is the assessment here? Are Wassabi developers comfortable continuing to operate their company and develop their projects as they currently do given the developments regarding Samurai wallet? Hopefully it through reduced to no US ties they will have no problems.

If they stop WabiSabi (name of their CoinJoin protocol) development or their mainnet WabiSabi coordinator now, people will assume the controversial blacklist[1] isn't effective to ensure survival of zkSNACKS and what they develop. So i expect they'll continue do what they currently do.

[1] https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-blacklisting-update/

[alani123]

What is the assessment here? Are Wassabi developers comfortable continuing to operate their company and develop their projects as they currently do given the developments regarding Samurai wallet? Hopefully it through reduced to no US ties they will have no problems.

If they stop WabiSabi (name of their CoinJoin protocol) development or their mainnet WabiSabi coordinator now, people will assume the controversial blacklist[1] isn't effective to ensure survival of zkSNACKS and what they develop. So i expect they'll continue do what they currently do.

[1] https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-blacklisting-update/

I'll recognize that Samourai and Wassabi aren't the same and have many differences, but also people considered them competitors.
Having your competing product's founders arrested and their services shutdown sounds pretty alarming.

Are Wassabi devs still feel safe and confident? Would be nice to have this reassurance from them in a statement perhaps.
Although they might chose to follow the silent route (whatever you say may be used against you), which is also respectable.

[Pmalek]

The Land of the Free is no more!

zkSNACKs and Wasabi Wallet has been blocked for US citizens. They can no longer download the software or interact with its APIs and other services. US IP addresses have been blocked.
Not that I am one bit sorry for Wasabi or zkSNACKs. They deserve the storm if it ends up coming their way. It's sad for anyone in the US who still relied on Wasabi (they shouldn't have) to improve their privacy.

Hopefully America will be free one day.

https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-now-blocking-u-s-residents-and-citizens/

[Kruw]

Not that I am one bit sorry for Wasabi or zkSNACKs. They deserve the storm if it ends up coming their way.

What a disgusting statement. It's incredible how much the members of this forum hate the people who create open source privacy tools.

[Pmalek]

What a disgusting statement. It's incredible how much the members of this forum hate the people who create open source privacy tools.

Nope, hence the sadness that the US has gone this bad. What members like myself hate are sponsors and financiers of blockchain analysis companies portraying themselves as privacy advocates. I also hate scum who wish death and illness on forum members and people much better than themselves. Do you recognize yourself in those words?

[BlackHatCoiner]

Are Wassabi devs still feel safe and confident? Would be nice to have this reassurance from them in a statement perhaps.

You've probably not followed the events of Wasabi in 2022. Here are a few topics to read:

- The default Wasabi Wallet coordinator will start censoring "illegal" UTXOs.
- Wasabi blacklisting update - open letter / 24 questions discussion thread.
- Re: Petition to remove Wasabi from recommendations of bitcoin.org.

To me, it is crystal clear that Wasabi is not to be trusted. Maybe some coinjoins will work, but there is a vast amount of accusations, lies, inappropriate and diplomatic responses from the developers, and on top of that, they are funding blockchain surveillance.

zkSNACKs and Wasabi Wallet has been blocked for US citizens.

How can they block access to US citizens if connection to the coordinator is established via hidden service?

What a disgusting statement.

Are you capable of experiencing emotions? That's quite groundbreaking news.

[Kruw]

To me, it is crystal clear that Wasabi is not to be trusted.

That's the whole point: You never have to trust Wasabi because it's TRUSTLESS SOFTWARE.

You do not have to trust anyone with your data.

You do not have to trust anyone with your funds.

It's designed to provide complete privacy, and it's completely open source for you to verify this for yourself: https://github.com/zkSNACKs/WalletWasabi

[BlackHatCoiner]

Bullshit arguments are bullshit.

You always have to trust the intentions and coding skills of the developers. Being open-source just minimizing the trust. I do consider a host variety of software to be trustless, but if I notice suspicious activity, then I'm packing my things and leaving. After seeing "privacy advocates" doxxing their competitors, funding what they're supposedly fighting against, people on the Internet accusing they've been de-anonymized by the said software, Wasabi devs outright lying, and seeing myself coinjoins with address reuse, then I don't have to study your codebase to make up my mind.

[Kruw]

Bullshit arguments are bullshit.

You sound like retard nocoiners when they say "Nah man, I just don't trust Bitcoin, someone will just take your coins."

You explain to them that you don't have to trust Bitcoin, it's trustless software due to cryptography, which is just math.

Then, the retard nocoiner says "Nah man, I don't trust the developers."

You explain to them that it's open source so you don't have to trust the developers, you can validate absolutely everything they do and modify it yourself.

Then, the retard nocoiner says "Nah man, I'd rather invest in Dogecoin because it can handle more transactions than Bitcoin."

You explain to them that Dogecoin has the same limitations as Bitcoin and that design tradeoffs taken in one area lead to consequences in another area, and that Dogecoin is completely obsolete compared to updated versions of Bitcoin.

Then, the retard nocoiner says "Nah man, the government issued a warning saying Bitcoins are dangerous, I don't have to look at the evidence to make up my mind."

You explain to them that the government is in competition with Bitcoin, and they are obviously incentivized attack it, then provide proof of them lying.

Then, the retard nocoiner says "Bullshit arguments are bullshit."

[Pmalek]

It's designed to provide complete privacy...

It's so private and effective that a nation of over 300 million people are now forbidden to use it. You will probably introduce similar layers of privacy in the EU soon. Then, they can also benefit from the ultimate privacy solution by not using it.

BlackHatCoiner asked a good question: With block filters and TOR, how could your friends from the government and blockchain analysis know if I am accessing the service from the US or not?

[Kruw]

BlackHatCoiner asked a good question: With block filters and TOR, how could your friends from the government and blockchain analysis know if I am accessing the service from the US or not?

Read the privacy policy:

=========================================
II. PRIVACY POLICY
=========================================

    This policy describes the ways zkSNACKs collects, stores, uses and protects personal information. The purpose of this policy is to ensure that zkSNACKs complies with applicable European Union (EU) and other statutory data protection laws and regulations, and ensures that users are provided privacy protection.
    Data protection laws are generally relevant in case any processing of personal data is concerned. The terms used within the scope of this data protection declaration are defined in and by the General Data Protection Regulation of the European Union. As such, the wide definition of "processing" of personal data means any operation or set of operations performed on personal data.

Personally Identifiable Information
===================================

    “Personally identifiable information” (“personal information”) is any information that can be directly associated with a specific person and can be used to identify that person. A prime example of identifiable information is a person’s name.

Handling Information
====================

   Since we are working on privacy, and our mission is to regain personal privacy, our Services are designed to be used without indication of any personal data. For this reason we do not have any kind of data collecting solutions built into our products. There may only be one personal data processing in our Service, for customer support in case of technical problems: visitors may, indicate their email addresses voluntarily to get notifications in case of any potential technical problems or other inquiries. These e-mail addresses are solely used to answer users’ questions and are erased after 100 days. In this case, the processing of the data is based on a freely given consent to Article 6 (1) (a) of the GDPR and is aimed at the effective handling of the complaint.
    We use GitHub as the main platform for users’ technical questions and issues, and we do not retain any data that can be subsequently identified / associated with the user.
   We expressly declare that we do not manage or store any other personally identifiable information.
    By visiting the Website and using our Services, You agree with this policy, in accordance with Section 1.2 of the Terms and Conditions

All User Information is Confidential
====================================

   Because we cannot link Your wallet and Your personal information (such as Your name and IP address) provided under the Service, Your personal information is safe and cannot be accessed by our staff or third parties.
    zkSNACKs will protect processed data in the customer Service process adequately against unauthorized access (of third parties) in accordance with the provisions of the legal framework of Republic of Seychelles. We will only process data which are essential to provide our Services. Data will not be used or stored by other means than set out in this document and are made accessible only to a restricted and necessary number of persons. We do not transfer any personal data to third parties.
    All employees of zkSNACKs have been informed about applicable data protection provisions as well as data security measures and are bound to our privacy practices. All staff are bound by confidentiality agreements.

Use of Cookies
==============

    A cookie is a small piece of data that a website asks Your browser to store on Your computer or mobile device. The cookie allows the website to “remember” Your actions or preferences over time.
   We expressly declare that we do not use cookies.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Then, the retard nocoiner says "Nah man, I don't trust the developers."

You explain to them that it's open source so you don't have to trust the developers, you can validate absolutely everything they do and modify it yourself.

No. I'd explain to them that it is trustless in the sense that thousands of people smarter than both of us have reviewed the code, none of which has reached to a conclusion that Bitcoin does not do what it says it does. If lots of people suddenly reported losing coins from their Bitcoin wallet, I'd absolutely not recommend that piece of software regardless if its source code was free to study or not.

I would absolutely not invite them to study an entire repository, line-by-line, to validate such a thing. Just as I wouldn't invite anyone to study the design of a car and its manufacturer's infrastructure, if their cars were caught to suddenly explode. I would simply stick to not recommending cars that are said to explode.

[Kruw]

No. I'd explain to them that it is trustless in the sense that thousands of people smarter than both of us have reviewed the code, none of which has reached to a conclusion that Bitcoin does not do what it says it does. If lots of people suddenly reported losing coins from their Bitcoin wallet, I'd absolutely not recommend that piece of software regardless if its source code was free to study or not.

I would absolutely not invite them to study an entire repository, line-by-line, to validate such a thing. Just as I wouldn't invite anyone to study the design of a car and its manufacturer's infrastructure, if their cars were caught to suddenly explode. I would simply stuck to not recommending cars that are said to explode.

If you stick to recommending cars that don't explode, then why did you recommend Chipmixer? Why did you recommend Whirlwind? Why did you recommend Whirlpool?

I'll agree with Lucius here. I presume ChipMixer is very cautious when it comes to protecting their own privacy too. They probably write code, build the site, talk to us in this forum - all via anonymity-focused Internet solutions such as Tor or i2p. If I was running such mixer, I'd be sure I'd sooner or later have authorities stick their nose into my business.

Is there a chance some really big shit is going on in their lives, and they are incapable of going online? For like... A month? I really can't believe this is an exit scam. The service seemed legitimate.

I'm really pissed off, and not because I lost money; fortunately, I had grasped that "don't leave coins to third parties" cliché. I'm so pissed off because I've been advertising and recommending this shit for months, in such a way that I'm practically part of this scam. And it's just feels awful.

It makes you question the integrity of the service you're currently carrying in your signature.

You lured people into EVERY SINGLE ONE of these rugpulls, yet, you spent years deliberately lying about Wasabi, which is TRUSTLESS SOFTWARE.

While you were attacking trustless open source software, you promoted Mixtum who said they explicitly perform blockchain analysis on their users and confiscate their users coins "at any time at its own discretion, with or without reasons, with or without notification assuming no responsibility whatsoever."

3. Quality scoring of incoming transactions
We run a thorough background check of incoming funds through a proprietary algorithm.

2.1. Privacy Policy

Please refer to our Privacy Policy to get an understanding of our confidentiality obligations. You consent to the collection and use of information as described in the Privacy Policy.

2.2 Suspension or termination of services

[banned mixer] reserves the right to suspend or terminate access to services at any time at its own discretion, with or without reasons, with or without notification assuming no responsibility whatsoever.

For example, services may be suspended or terminated due to the following reasons:

    an actual or suspected violation of these Terms and Conditions;
    use of the service in such a manner that is conducive to the legal liability of [banned mixer] or Service malfunction;
    planned or unplanned maintenance, etc.

2.3 Unacceptable use

You agree that you personally will not commit, encourage or support the committal of:

    use of any unauthorized means to access the [banned mixer] service or use of any automated process or service (for example, spider, crawler or periodic caching of information stored or generated by [banned mixer]) except for the functions described in our API, as well as distribution of instructions, software or tools with this aim in view;
    modification, change, distortion or any other interference in work of the [banned mixer] service;
    disturbing or interference in operation of servers or networks used by [banned mixer] to deliver the Services;
    disabling, overload or degradation of [banned mixer] performance (or any other network connected to the service);
    use of the [banned mixer] service or website for any other purposes other than those specifically provided by these Terms and Privacy Policy;
    any illegal or fraudulent activity, as well as use of this Service in order to legalize illegal income, financing of terrorism, participation in schemes of phishing, forgery or other such falsification or manipulation;
    unauthorized spamming, pyramid schemes or any other activity duplicating unwanted messages should they be commercially oriented or of other nature.

2.4 Service updates

At any time and at its absolute discretion [banned mixer] can carry out unscheduled works related to the service modification, update and enhancement. We are liable to add or remove functions and cease activities of the service and website.
2.5 License and restrictions

[banned mixer] provides you with a personal nontransferable nonexclusive license to use the Service as it is stipulated for you by [banned mixer]. This license is provided under conditions and restricted to the provisions, stipulations and constraints stated in these Terms. Therewith, such license is intended for personal, noncommercial use. You may not copy, modify, create a derivative work of, decompile or otherwise attempt to extract the source code of the service or any part thereof, exclusive of data permitted by law, or expressly allowed by the [banned mixer] platform (use of templates, API, etc.). You may not reassign (or grant a sublicense of) your rights to use the service, or otherwise transfer any part of your rights in accordance with these Terms. These Rules do not provide you with any license or permission to copy, distribute, change or otherwise use any applications programming interface despite any provisions to the contrary. No property rights or ownership rights related to the Service are not granted to you according to these Terms. [banned mixer] reserves all rights that have not been expressly granted.

You are a traitor to Bitcoin's mission of self custody. You are an enemy of privacy. And most of all, you are a SCAMMER. Fuck off of this thread and start focusing on paying back the people who had their money stolen by the services you partnered with.

[DaveF]

The Land of the Free is no more!

zkSNACKs and Wasabi Wallet has been blocked for US citizens. They can no longer download the software or interact with its APIs and other services. US IP addresses have been blocked.
Not that I am one bit sorry for Wasabi or zkSNACKs. They deserve the storm if it ends up coming their way. It's sad for anyone in the US who still relied on Wasabi (they shouldn't have) to improve their privacy.

Hopefully America will be free one day.

https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-now-blocking-u-s-residents-and-citizens/

Since they host their builds on Github you can still download them with no issues.

If you are US based and you run it and it works then they are as they say using TOR and it should not matter.

If at any time the wallet pops up anything telling you that you are US based and can't use the service then somewhere along the line they are sending your IP to the their servers so at that point you know they are getting your real IP. Which as we know they do not need.

-Dave

[Pmalek]

Read the privacy policy

It must be true since it's written on the Internet.

You are a traitor to Bitcoin's mission of self custody. You are an enemy of privacy. And most of all, you are a SCAMMER.

You are a traitor of Bitcoin and enemy of privacy you blockchain-funding, death-wishing filthy little weasel. Has the rise in mining fees been difficult for the company's blockchain analysis funding? It's not as cheap as it once was.

Since they host their builds on Github you can still download them with no issues.

If you are US based and you run it and it works then they are as they say using TOR and it should not matter.

If at any time the wallet pops up anything telling you that you are US based and can't use the service then somewhere along the line they are sending your IP to the their servers so at that point you know they are getting your real IP. Which as we know they do not need.

-Dave

The blog post says that US citizens are blocked from several actions. Among those are both downloading and using the Wasabi wallet and any other services related to it. If they are lying, which wouldn't be the first time, why trust a liar with anything else they say or write? Like their Privacy Policy, for example.

[Kruw]

It must be true since it's written on the Internet.

No, it's true since open source software allows you to verify this for yourself  

[kayirigi]

lmao. So funding BC analysis achieved nothing and Wasabi still scared of feds? And now Wasabi screw normal people again to protect themselves.

Such cowards.

And now everyone can see Kruwed's lies - Samourai obviously not a honeypot. At least Tornado and Samourai went down fighting. Wasabi bend over and sell out users AGAIN. Well not really, since nobody with any brain cells is using Wasabi anyway.

[NotATether]

It must be true since it's written on the Internet.

No, it's true since open source software allows you to verify this for yourself  

Open Source allows me to verify that Wasabi have become privacy devils who will basically claim to provide fast, private CoinJoin but only after they collect your IP address or ID (the logical continuation of this as a US person can simply use a VPN) to make sure you're not from a restricted country.

Who is the hypocrite now, Kruw?

Literally days after you were yapping about redemption for Samourai collecting xpubs, now your wallet is collecting Personal Identifying Information itself. Will it be enough to save it? Probably not.

[Kruw]

Literally days after you were yapping about redemption for Samourai collecting xpubs, now your wallet is collecting Personal Identifying Information itself. Will it be enough to save it? Probably not.

Unlike Samourai which records all of their users' financial activity by default, Wasabi does not collect any personally identifying information whatsoever:

=========================================
II. PRIVACY POLICY
=========================================

    This policy describes the ways zkSNACKs collects, stores, uses and protects personal information. The purpose of this policy is to ensure that zkSNACKs complies with applicable European Union (EU) and other statutory data protection laws and regulations, and ensures that users are provided privacy protection.
    Data protection laws are generally relevant in case any processing of personal data is concerned. The terms used within the scope of this data protection declaration are defined in and by the General Data Protection Regulation of the European Union. As such, the wide definition of "processing" of personal data means any operation or set of operations performed on personal data.

Personally Identifiable Information
===================================

    “Personally identifiable information” (“personal information”) is any information that can be directly associated with a specific person and can be used to identify that person. A prime example of identifiable information is a person’s name.

Handling Information
====================

   Since we are working on privacy, and our mission is to regain personal privacy, our Services are designed to be used without indication of any personal data. For this reason we do not have any kind of data collecting solutions built into our products. There may only be one personal data processing in our Service, for customer support in case of technical problems: visitors may, indicate their email addresses voluntarily to get notifications in case of any potential technical problems or other inquiries. These e-mail addresses are solely used to answer users’ questions and are erased after 100 days. In this case, the processing of the data is based on a freely given consent to Article 6 (1) (a) of the GDPR and is aimed at the effective handling of the complaint.
    We use GitHub as the main platform for users’ technical questions and issues, and we do not retain any data that can be subsequently identified / associated with the user.
   We expressly declare that we do not manage or store any other personally identifiable information.
    By visiting the Website and using our Services, You agree with this policy, in accordance with Section 1.2 of the Terms and Conditions

All User Information is Confidential
====================================

   Because we cannot link Your wallet and Your personal information (such as Your name and IP address) provided under the Service, Your personal information is safe and cannot be accessed by our staff or third parties.
    zkSNACKs will protect processed data in the customer Service process adequately against unauthorized access (of third parties) in accordance with the provisions of the legal framework of Republic of Seychelles. We will only process data which are essential to provide our Services. Data will not be used or stored by other means than set out in this document and are made accessible only to a restricted and necessary number of persons. We do not transfer any personal data to third parties.
    All employees of zkSNACKs have been informed about applicable data protection provisions as well as data security measures and are bound to our privacy practices. All staff are bound by confidentiality agreements.

Use of Cookies
==============

    A cookie is a small piece of data that a website asks Your browser to store on Your computer or mobile device. The cookie allows the website to “remember” Your actions or preferences over time.
   We expressly declare that we do not use cookies.

[Dont Trust Verify]

You lured people into EVERY SINGLE ONE of these rugpulls, yet, you spent years deliberately lying about Wasabi, which is TRUSTLESS SOFTWARE.

While you were attacking trustless open source software, you promoted Mixtum who said they explicitly perform blockchain analysis on their users and confiscate their users coins "at any time at its own discretion, with or without reasons, with or without notification assuming no responsibility whatsoever."

Custodial mixing shills contradict themselves by promoting and profiting off of the very thing they claim to be against. Such incredibly dishonest and disgusting behavior. These pathological scammers should donate their signature earnings to Samourai’s defense fund if they are capable of feeling contrition. Ideally they would pay restitutions to those who lost funds with mixers, but those losses could be in the millions and it will be impossible to ever fully undo the damage they caused by endorsing those thieves.

Samourai obviously not a honeypot.

Obviously they were if they were collecting users xpubs making them easily accessible to law enforcement.

They deserve the storm if it ends up coming their way.

This is why crypto and privacy keep getting fucked more and more, people openly cheering for government overreach as long as it’s against those they hate. It’s not just a Wasabi vs. Samourai thing, it's Bitcoin vs shitcoins too. Everyone’s lives will get worse but at least Wasabi devs, lightning service providers, and Uniswap’s CEO will all be locked away and it might pump my bags of whatever I’m holding.

[satscraper]

crypto and privacy keep getting fucked more and more, people openly cheering for government overreach as long as it’s against those they hate.

In this respect I am all the time in for a surprise why they remains closed for PayNym payments. Sparrow wallet has such PayNym option which is nice for preserving transaction privacy but when I tell about this to my contractual counterparties they are rolling  eyes upwards and don't begin to understand me.

[Kruw]

You lured people into EVERY SINGLE ONE of these rugpulls, yet, you spent years deliberately lying about Wasabi, which is TRUSTLESS SOFTWARE.

While you were attacking trustless open source software, you promoted Mixtum who said they explicitly perform blockchain analysis on their users and confiscate their users coins "at any time at its own discretion, with or without reasons, with or without notification assuming no responsibility whatsoever."

Custodial mixing shills contradict themselves by promoting and profiting off of the very thing they claim to be against. Such incredibly dishonest and disgusting behavior. These pathological scammers should donate their signature earnings to Samourai’s defense fund if they are capable of feeling contrition. Ideally they would pay restitutions to those who lost funds with mixers, but those losses could be in the millions and it will be impossible to ever fully undo the damage they caused by endorsing those thieves.

Exactly. BlackHatCoiner can only pay the money back to the people he scammed, but he can't give his victims their privacy back. That damage is permanent.

Is there a chance some really big shit is going on in their lives, and they are incapable of going online? For like... A month? I really can't believe this is an exit scam. The service seemed legitimate.

I'm really pissed off, and not because I lost money; fortunately, I had grasped that "don't leave coins to third parties" cliché. I'm so pissed off because I've been advertising and recommending this shit for months, in such a way that I'm practically part of this scam. And it's just feels awful.

It makes you question the integrity of the service you're currently carrying in your signature.

They deserve the storm if it ends up coming their way.

This is why crypto and privacy keep getting fucked more and more, people openly cheering for government overreach as long as it’s against those they hate. It’s not just a Wasabi vs. Samourai thing, it's Bitcoin vs shitcoins too. Everyone’s lives will get worse but at least Wasabi devs, lightning service providers, and Uniswap’s CEO will all be locked away and it might pump my bags of whatever I’m holding.

Everyone is still waiting for a list of apologies from Pmalek for RELENTLESSLY mocking trustless open source software for months while he was promoting a trusted custodian that turned everything over to the Feds:

Pmalek, don't you have a LOT of apologies to make?  You spent months relentlessly attacking open source trustless Bitcoin privacy software while promoting a trusted custodian. Now that trusted custodian has turned over its users' data to the government.

In the future, whenever someone mentions anything negative about Wasabi, your job is to hit them with the we are open-source and baaam, that will shut them up. If they are advertising a mixer, you also call them a thief to really get your point across.

Oh boy, now I am going to hear about how Wasabi is open-source again.  

To be fair, we don't hear it as often as we are open-source, mixers are a scam, or the many variants of look at how flawed these other implementations are.

Now you can tell me how mixing services steal coins and sell customer data. I think it's the perfect opportunity to play that card.

If you do, their forum representative will tell you the software is open-source and that they make donations to the Human Rights Foundation and the TOR project. Seeing as you are wearing the signature of a mixing service, they will throw in a few sentences about you advertising a scam and/or that you are a thief or scammer yourself.

Play the we are open-source card or everyone can run their own coordinator card, again because the software is open-source. Despite you knowing that's not the issue, you insist on playing those cards. No one is falling for your bluffs. Attacks on centralized mixing services incoming

You can stick your we are open-source and thus don't do anything unethical propaganda where the sun doesn't shine.

Kruw:
Thanks for using Wasabi and contacting us! We are glad to help you.
Did you know that BlackHatCoiner and o_e_l_e_o are to blame because they are openly advertising centralized mixing services? Amazing, right? They also did it before and will probably do it again. They are trying to trick you into handling your money over to these centralized services. We at Wasabi would never do that. Stay with us, we have amazing surprises for our users. Wasabi - the ultimate Bitcoin privacy tool.  

To all criminal users of former mixer Sinbad.io,
This is a collective warning issued by the Dutch Investigation Service for Financial and Tax Crime (FIOD) and the Dutch Public Prosecution Office.
Our investigation has uncovered illicit activities on this mixer platform and the logs obtained have compromised the anonymity of numerous users.
We urge all criminal users and admins of mixers to cease all unlawful actions immediately. Persistent engagement will lead to severe legal consequences. We are resolute in pursuing and prosecuting all involved in criminal activities.
Your anonymity is no longer assured. Law enforcement actions are imminent.
With Vigilance,
Dutch Investigation Service for Financial and Tax Crime (FIOD) and the Dutch Public Prosecution Office

Sparrow wallet has such PayNym option which is nice for preserving transaction privacy but when I tell about this to my contractual counterparties they are rolling  eyes upwards and don't begin to understand me.

Paynyms don't preserve transaction privacy, you should just give your counterparty a regular address.

[Wind_FURY]

Effective immediately and until further notice, zkSNACKs is now blocking U.S. citizens and residents from visiting its websites, downloading and using Wasabi Wallet and any related products and services, including APIs and RPC interfaces.

In light of recent announcements by U.S. authorities, zkSNACKs is now strictly prohibiting U.S. users from using its services. An IP address blocking for U.S. residents is effective on wasabiwallet.io, api.wasabiwallet.io and zksnacks.com.

“U.S.” refers to “United States” and includes the several states of the United States and related territories. If you are a United States Citizen or United States Resident, you are not allowed to visit any sites aforementioned, download Wasabi Wallet or use the Wasabi Wallet coinjoin feature. This includes if you are a U.S. permanent resident or if you are an individual that holds a U.S. passport.

https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-now-blocking-u-s-residents-and-citizens/

Was that something that the Wasabi developers expected? When nopara73 left the team, I was very curious why, but I didn't want to ask that question in the forum because people might merely FUD make tin-foil hypotheses about Wasabi again. But currently it's known that Wasabi left the U.S., did nopara73 already know that that - Wasabi/zkSNACKS to leave U.S. - was going to happen? I believe he's the only developer that made his identity public, no?

[Pmalek]

Everyone is still waiting from an apology from Pmalek for RELENTLESSLY mocking trustless open source software for months while he was promoting a trusted custodian that turned everything over to the Feds.

They got seized. But why expect a lying douchebag like yourself to know the difference. Now with Samourai Wallet out of the picture, have you and your handlers decided who to attack and sell out next? Maybe you can work with the US government and blockchain analysis to help identify the people behind JoinMarket. That's a tool that actually improves privacy, which would make it perfect for you to dox with your government pals.   

[Kruw]

Everyone is still waiting from an apology from Pmalek for RELENTLESSLY mocking trustless open source software for months while he was promoting a trusted custodian that turned everything over to the Feds.

They got seized.

See? No apology whatsoever after the exact thing I warned about happened. Satoshi, who built Bitcoin to operate without custodians, is ashamed of you Pmalek:

A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution. Digital signatures provide part of the solution, but the main benefits are lost if a trusted third party is still required to prevent double-spending.

You took money in exchange for actively destroying the fundamental property of Bitcoin, and you don't even have the decency to apologize to your victims.

[NotATether]

Unlike Samourai which records all of their users' financial activity by default, Wasabi does not collect any personally identifying information whatsoever:

The privacy policy you quoted quite explicitly declares that some data is collected by the service (ironically the part you bolded)

All User Information is Confidential
====================================

   Because we cannot link Your wallet and Your personal information (such as Your name and IP address) provided under the Service, Your personal information is safe and cannot be accessed by our staff or third parties.
    zkSNACKs will protect processed data in the customer Service process adequately against unauthorized access (of third parties) in accordance with the provisions of the legal framework of Republic of Seychelles. We will only process data which are essential to provide our Services. Data will not be used or stored by other means than set out in this document and are made accessible only to a restricted and necessary number of persons. We do not transfer any personal data to third parties.
    All employees of zkSNACKs have been informed about applicable data protection provisions as well as data security measures and are bound to our privacy practices. All staff are bound by confidentiality agreements.

You can't protect processed data if no data is being collected in the first place. Also you cannot run geoblocking without collecting IP addresses. This is not some Cloudflare job either, as even Wasabi's app servers are geoblocked.

Was that something that the Wasabi developers expected? When nopara73 left the team, I was very curious why, but I didn't want to ask that question in the forum because people might merely FUD make tin-foil hypotheses about Wasabi again. But currently it's known that Wasabi left the U.S., did nopara73 already know that that - Wasabi/zkSNACKS to leave U.S. - was going to happen? I believe he's the only developer that made his identity public, no?

I damn bet he knew. His departure announcement on Medium was suspiciously timed. I guess he didn't want to be part of the reputation smear that evidently the rest of Wasabi has been hit by, so who can blame him.

[Kruw]

The privacy policy you quoted quite explicitly declares that some data is collected by the service (ironically the part you bolded)

Where?

[Pmalek]

See? No apology whatsoever...

I am sorry that Wasabi and zkSNACKs are a threat to Bitcoin's privacy and fungibility. I am sorry that you choose the dark path instead of working for the good of Bitcoin. I am sorry that you have reached agreements with your handlers on what bitcoins are good and which ones are bad. I am sorry that you are a sell-out. I am sorry that you have sold out 300 million potential users in the States and that, sooner or later, you will also sell out around 500 million unsuspecting users in the EU when your handers tell you to. But it's also a good thing that more and more people can't use a privacy-invasive and malicious service like Wasabi and its default coordinator.

I am sorry that a threat to Bitcoin and privacy like yourself is still here, but Tornado Cash or Samourai Wallet isn't. I am sorry that you are in the business of doxing developers of privacy solutions, and probably wouldn't mind helping your handlers (for money or for free) to dox the remaining ones for profit or out of maliciousness. Finally, I am sorry that someone like you gets to boast that there are open-source, and it's sad that it's enough for some.

PS: I am sorry that you believe the donations you send towards open-source software is a sign of your righteousness and morality. Instead, you are a corrupt entity, in bed with the enemy.

The privacy policy you quoted quite explicitly declares that some data is collected by the service (ironically the part you bolded)

I think it refers only to the email address if given during customer support enquiries. But hey, never trust a liar and doxing service like Wasabi.

[Kruw]

See? No apology whatsoever...

I am sorry that Wasabi and zkSNACKs are a threat to Bitcoin's privacy and fungibility. I am sorry that you choose the dark path instead of working for the good of Bitcoin. I am sorry that you have reached agreements with your handlers on what bitcoins are good and which ones are bad. I am sorry that you are a sell-out. I am sorry that you have sold out 300 million potential users in the States and that, sooner or later, you will also sell out around 500 million unsuspecting users in the EU when your handers tell you to. But it's also a good thing that more and more people can't use a privacy-invasive and malicious service like Wasabi and its default coordinator.

I am sorry that a threat to Bitcoin and privacy like yourself is still here, but Tornado Cash or Samourai Wallet isn't. I am sorry that you are in the business of doxing developers of privacy solutions, and probably wouldn't mind helping your handlers (for money or for free) to dox the remaining ones for profit or out of maliciousness. Finally, I am sorry that someone like you gets to boast that there are open-source, and it's sad that it's enough for some.

PS: I am sorry that you believe the donations you send towards open-source software is a sign of your righteousness and morality. Instead, you are a corrupt entity, in bed with the enemy.

Lmao. You didn't bother to spare a single word for the victims you scammed with Sinbad.

To all criminal users of former mixer Sinbad.io,
This is a collective warning issued by the Dutch Investigation Service for Financial and Tax Crime (FIOD) and the Dutch Public Prosecution Office.
Our investigation has uncovered illicit activities on this mixer platform and the logs obtained have compromised the anonymity of numerous users.
We urge all criminal users and admins of mixers to cease all unlawful actions immediately. Persistent engagement will lead to severe legal consequences. We are resolute in pursuing and prosecuting all involved in criminal activities.
Your anonymity is no longer assured. Law enforcement actions are imminent.
With Vigilance,
Dutch Investigation Service for Financial and Tax Crime (FIOD) and the Dutch Public Prosecution Office

Pmalek, you betrayed Satoshi. Pay back the victims you owe.

[alani123]

Are Wassabi devs still feel safe and confident? Would be nice to have this reassurance from them in a statement perhaps.

You've probably not followed the events of Wasabi in 2022. Here are a few topics to read:

- The default Wasabi Wallet coordinator will start censoring "illegal" UTXOs.
- Wasabi blacklisting update - open letter / 24 questions discussion thread.
- Re: Petition to remove Wasabi from recommendations of bitcoin.org.

To me, it is crystal clear that Wasabi is not to be trusted. Maybe some coinjoins will work, but there is a vast amount of accusations, lies, inappropriate and diplomatic responses from the developers, and on top of that, they are funding blockchain surveillance.

zkSNACKs and Wasabi Wallet has been blocked for US citizens.

How can they block access to US citizens if connection to the coordinator is established via hidden service?

What a disgusting statement.

Are you capable of experiencing emotions? That's quite groundbreaking news.

I think that we have to be understanding of Wasabi's position before such conclusions. Developers that know how to develop bitcoin could apply to 10 positions today and have a very high acceptance rate for new job opportunities. Plus, when you make a piece of software free and open source, revenue avenues are kinda limited because it can't realistically be sold or licensed.

The devs somehow need to get paid or they won't develop FOSS at all.
So when it comes to developing a wallet solution that offers additional features on top of the bitcoin stack, the voluntary-funded model hasn't proven to work yet. Bitcoin-core developers might get external sponsors because it's a very knowledge intensive task and people need to pay their bills too if they spend tons of time doing something they've spent a large part of their life learning (without getting paid) to do.

But who would fund a privacy wallet? Even with bitcoin, nearly all of the dev funding comes from corporations and from the occasional well-meaning tech billionaire. Would these corporations and billionaires want to risk seeming as defying U.S. authorities and regulations though? I think most definitely not.

We can't realistically expect any software development to happen from developers operating without salaries and/or without knowing each other's person, operating in a rogue manner. Feature-packed privacy wallets are vast and can't be developed without any organization. So whoever is organizing things also could face liability against state entities.

The alternative to external pressure for a software project is always to give up and find jobs elsewhere. But instead Wasabi devs built offices in Budapest, found a team of professionals in the space, found ways to LEGALLY pay them a stable salary to continue development, and to this day offers a feature-packed bitcoin wallet with additional privacy services on top. They already do so much to develop the software and keep their operation sustainable.

After seeing what happened to Samourai devs, we just have to be glad that Wasabi is still standing and the devs behind it are still willing to provide the software, albeit with limitations. The software existing and being developed is what matters. If anyone wants to use it in whatever ways it should be on them and not in the developers. But if the US gov doesn't see it that way, what can be done?

Maybe we could try crowd-fund the development of a privacy coordinator and development team to operate out of Russia or Iran or at least anonymously and not have to worry about them being sent to a U.S. jail. But to my knowledge, no one has taken up to that endeavor and secondly I've seen overall nearly non-existent willingness of users to crowd-fund bitcoin privacy wallets. Let alone the fact that operating our of a non-western state and/or being anonymous doesn't guarantee that developers of such a project will be left alone.

To make a long story short, Wasabi is one of the best things we have for bitcoin privacy as of now. It's not perfect but it's they're operating with certain limitations that are very hard to overcome. We have to appreciate their efforts and recent developments with Samourai shows that they're dedicated for wanting to continue and more prepared overall.

[FinneysTrueVision]

I am sorry that a threat to Bitcoin and privacy like yourself is still here, but Tornado Cash or Samourai Wallet isn't.

Tornado Cash developers aren’t the martyrs you think they are. Just like zkSNACKs, they took precautionary measures to minimize the risk of getting their rights taken away and their lives destroyed by overzealous government persecution. Their website had a built-in compliance tool which would do chain analysis on your transaction. They also blocked US sanctioned countries from their domain.

[mikeywith]

I'll recognize that Samourai and Wassabi aren't the same and have many differences, but also people considered them competitors.
Having your competing product's founders arrested and their services shutdown sounds pretty alarming.

It would be pretty awkward if Wasabi faced the same end, it would only mean that all the bending over to the government never paid off.

[alani123]

I'll recognize that Samourai and Wassabi aren't the same and have many differences, but also people considered them competitors.
Having your competing product's founders arrested and their services shutdown sounds pretty alarming.

It would be pretty awkward if Wasabi faced the same end, it would only mean that all the bending over to the government never paid off.

Who would you blame in that case? Given how ferocious feds have been I wouldn't blame the developers.
As stated above, Tornado.cash developers also did their best to cover their ass and avoid having their lives ruined by federal indictments, and yet for the feds it wasn't enough. And as we saw with Samourai devs, one of them was even arrested in Portugal. Even if he doesn't get extradited, he's going to face charged difficult to combat for sure. Prison is never an unlikely scenario when the U.S. goes against you and you're in a western country.

So I'd argue that developers also have an obligation to themselves to try and do their best not to get rekt by feds. If someone else wants to take the risk they could always fork the software.

[Wind_FURY]

Was that something that the Wasabi developers expected? When nopara73 left the team, I was very curious why, but I didn't want to ask that question in the forum because people might merely FUD make tin-foil hypotheses about Wasabi again. But currently it's known that Wasabi left the U.S., did nopara73 already know that that - Wasabi/zkSNACKS to leave U.S. - was going to happen? I believe he's the only developer that made his identity public, no?

I damn bet he knew. His departure announcement on Medium was suspiciously timed. I guess he didn't want to be part of the reputation smear that evidently the rest of Wasabi has been hit by, so who can blame him.

Perhaps he did, but to give him the benefit of the doubt, it's not the "reputation smear". I believe that many privacy tools developers might have started to talk with each other about a pending suppression by some state-level actors months before Samourai Wallet. Personally, nopara73 made the right decision for himself and if he has a family - wife/kids - them too. I would definitely do the same to be honest.

Where can everyone find newbie-friendly guides/ELI-5 instructions to boot-strap a coordinator?

[NotATether]

The devs somehow need to get paid or they won't develop FOSS at all.

I'm sorry but that is simply untrue. So many Rust crates, PyPi modules, RubyGems, npm packages, wordpress, TeX, NuGet modules and plugins, and countless Linux and C/C++ libraries as well as the plugins for all of those were made without receiving any sponsorship or donation whatsoever. That is to say nothing about all the applications hosted on Github and Gitlab. Your next paragraph is a bit more correct in that developers somehow need to get money in order to sustain themselves, but usually, it comes from their day jobs and not from the packages they maintain, which is why you don't see much of this kind of problem in FOSS.

You are also correct that some people's living is only through FOSS development and in that case, funding naturally becomes more important to them.

But who would fund a privacy wallet? Even with bitcoin, nearly all of the dev funding comes from corporations and from the occasional well-meaning tech billionaire. Would these corporations and billionaires want to risk seeming as defying U.S. authorities and regulations though? I think most definitely not.

Continuing my discourse above, the more importance you attach to funding in order to maintain something, the less development you're actually going to do. Because then it becomes a matter of trying to make a wage through community donations, rather than actual development. Ideally, the project funding should be enough to cover the costs of developing and testing the project, but usually the total amount will not be anything close to a full salary. This is not to say that they don't need funding, but it should be second priority to actually programming the stuff.

That being said, there are crypto funds for the development of such infra, like what Human Rights Foundation has been giving out the past few years.

We can't realistically expect any software development to happen from developers operating without salaries and/or without knowing each other's person, operating in a rogue manner. Feature-packed privacy wallets are vast and can't be developed without any organization. So whoever is organizing things also could face liability against state entities.

Like I wrote earlier, funding is usually not going to be enough to cover salaries, but it will cover the cost of developing the app. All privacy developers and operators from TOR, anyone who makes E2E chat or email programs, and crypto developers will inevitably will be in the crosshairs of a few nation states, but not necessarily because they broke the law. They do need to take basic precautions to not get hurt though, like not talking too much and too loud (as Samourai's social media was well known for being edgy and triggering).

After seeing what happened to Samourai devs, we just have to be glad that Wasabi is still standing and the devs behind it are still willing to provide the software, albeit with limitations. The software existing and being developed is what matters. If anyone wants to use it in whatever ways it should be on them and not in the developers. But if the US gov doesn't see it that way, what can be done?

Most people used Wasabi Wallet for the automatic mixing feature. It is not very useful without that, or if it's sabotaged.

Maybe we could try crowd-fund the development of a privacy coordinator and development team to operate out of Russia or Iran or at least anonymously and not have to worry about them being sent to a U.S. jail. But to my knowledge, no one has taken up to that endeavor and secondly I've seen overall nearly non-existent willingness of users to crowd-fund bitcoin privacy wallets. Let alone the fact that operating our of a non-western state and/or being anonymous doesn't guarantee that developers of such a project will be left alone.

Assembling a team within a US enemy state is a recipe for disaster. That will just incentive them to take down the software and press charges for politics. Not to mention the countries you mentioned have their own police problems. The best thing that can be done is to develop such a thing where you will at least have a chance of a fair trial and free (within reasonable limits) speech. Most of these tools are developed by teams in those jurisdictions.

As well as the fact that developing a coordinator is simply not enough. Obviously it would have to be decentralized first of all, but we saw with Tornado Cash that even decentralized coordinators/mixers can be held liable for "Money Transmission Service" even if they are not living in the west. It requires a community, similar to the communities of Tor and Bitcoin. The reason why the feds simply can't outright ban those two technologies is that they have a large enough userbase that it can be clearly seen that it is being used for legal purposes as well. Ditto with secure email, confidential tipping services, secure chat, secure DNS resolvers, VPNs and so on.

Mixing tools are no different. The proof of that is that there is not a single western government that has made Monero illegal yet.

Of course, Uncle Sam don't actually care whether your service is operating within the law or not, and as soon as he sees a vulnerable project like the one whose thread I'm replying in, he becomes prime John Cena and body-slams you until you're either bankrupted, jailed, or otherwise ruined from being on a wanted list. They can't do that if you have lawyers, that is why increased legal representation for open-source projects is so important. Most projects can't afford a lawyer and the funding should be going to that, not towards the dev's livelihood.

[satscraper]

Paynyms don't preserve transaction privacy, you should just give your counterparty a regular address.

Sure I can, but regular address are usually given via emails, messengers, mobile messages and other potentially controlled channels. Provision of PayNym addresses via all those channels  eliminates the threat of revealing regular addresses to third parties which are potentially watching you and your counterparty. Thus, PayNym preserves privacy.

[NotATether]

Well, speaking about operating in Russia, its elimination didn't take so long 

https://cryptobriefing.com/russia-crypto-ban-reinforce-ruble/

[Pmalek]

Tornado Cash developers aren’t the martyrs you think they are. Just like zkSNACKs, they took precautionary measures to minimize the risk of getting their rights taken away and their lives destroyed by overzealous government persecution. Their website had a built-in compliance tool which would do chain analysis on your transaction. They also blocked US sanctioned countries from their domain.

I know about the compliance tool. But that's not the reason why I said I think it's a shame they are gone and Wasabi is still here in the form they have chosen to be in.

The compliance tool helps those who need to prove the source of funds. No one forces you to use it or share it with any third parties. But you do need to save "the Note". I think that's what Tornado Cash calls it. The note is mandatory to allow you to withdraw the mixed tokens. It's also used if you want to create a compliance report.

[dkbit98]

It would be pretty awkward if Wasabi faced the same end, it would only mean that all the bending over to the government never paid off.

I would not be surprised if that actually happens, but it would only mean that we are wasting time arguing and fighting each other, meanwhile government agents are slowing taking us down one by one.  
That is classical Divide and Rule example, and it's not the first time they are doing something like this.

[Wind_FURY]

Well, speaking about operating in Russia, its elimination didn't take so long 

https://cryptobriefing.com/russia-crypto-ban-reinforce-ruble/

If that's actually true, then someone should tell Putin that his subjects are wrong to ban Bitcoin UNLESS they're not going to lead by example. Because what actually could fix Russia's problems, that are caused by sanctions, is actually Bitcoin. It was built for that kind of censorship - financial censorship.

To understand the Russian government's viewpoint, they should ban Bitcoin and other forms of currencies from public use to maintain the value of their currency to avoid currency collapse and therefore avoid economic collapse. BUT their government should probably be HODLing Bitcoin, and treat it like it's Gold.

Gold to pay for the war, and use Bitcoin if everything else fails.

[examplens]

Well, speaking about operating in Russia, its elimination didn't take so long 

https://cryptobriefing.com/russia-crypto-ban-reinforce-ruble/

If that's actually true, then someone should tell Putin that his subjects are wrong to ban Bitcoin UNLESS they're not going to lead by example. Because what actually could fix Russia's problems, that are caused by sanctions, is actually Bitcoin. It was built for that kind of censorship - financial censorship.

The ban will be a legal pretext for greater financial control of the population and eventual confiscation of cryptocurrencies. I don't see here that there was anything different compared to everything that the US government and the SEC do. They do this without a publicly declared ban, so it appears that there is freedom when using Bitcoin.

[Wind_FURY]

Well, speaking about operating in Russia, its elimination didn't take so long 

https://cryptobriefing.com/russia-crypto-ban-reinforce-ruble/

If that's actually true, then someone should tell Putin that his subjects are wrong to ban Bitcoin UNLESS they're not going to lead by example. Because what actually could fix Russia's problems, that are caused by sanctions, is actually Bitcoin. It was built for that kind of censorship - financial censorship.

The ban will be a legal pretext for greater financial control of the population and eventual confiscation of cryptocurrencies. I don't see here that there was anything different compared to everything that the US government and the SEC do. They do this without a publicly declared ban, so it appears that there is freedom when using Bitcoin.

I believe, from the Bitcoin network's viewpoint, that it's better for them to impose an absolute ban. But they probably know that that will take part in Bitcoin's core function, and main value proposition - Censorship-Resistance. Haha. There might be some politicians that have gotten smarter and deeper about their understanding of Bitcoin over the years.

[Bitcoin_Arena]

>>snip<<

I am still surprised you trust these politicians and Governments that will do anything to stay a float and try to control their people, or should we say flock? Politicians will follow any trend so long as it benefits them and feeds their greed. Once they have taken a grip of their people, they will ban whatever they think is no longer useful to them.

When at war, I see some countries resorting to being crypto-friendly by accepting crypto donations and also transactions to bypass the sanctions to survive, but once things are much better. All they think about is banning the same cryptocurrencies that saved their asses. 

[BlackHatCoiner]

So I'd argue that developers also have an obligation to themselves to try and do their best not to get rekt by feds.

You either work for a privacy solution, or you don't. If you're afraid the governments will be hostile to you, then don't work on a privacy service, or do it anonymously (like Monero development). It'd be completely reasonable and respectable. But, you can't have the cake and eat it too. Wasabi should either be "unfairly private" or shut their operations down. The path Wasabi chose was to lie in bed with the enemy, turn pro-censorship, anti-fungibility and sell out their users in general. To me that is unethical for a business of that kind.

[alani123]

You either work for a privacy solution, or you don't. If you're afraid the governments will be hostile to you, then don't work on a privacy service, or do it anonymously (like Monero development). It'd be completely reasonable and respectable. But, you can't have the cake and eat it too. Wasabi should either be "unfairly private" or shut their operations down. The path Wasabi chose was to lie in bed with the enemy, turn pro-censorship, anti-fungibility and sell out their users in general. To me that is unethical for a business of that kind.

I'd say that not all software development needs to follow the same style. Yes a community oriented approach to software development would be ideal for a wallet. But since when is the bitcoin community ready to fund development for privacy wallets and services? There isn't even much if any community funding for Bitcoin Core development itself. Those that care and depend on privacy could recognize their responsibility and take up this initiative. But until then, does it make it right to bring up moralistic arguments and say that Wasabi should shut down because it could be done better?

Respectfully, I'd say let's see it. Wasabi devs are kind enough to publish documented code under the MIT license. If anyone thinks they can do better they can! Will they receive the community's support though? That's a tough bet.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Yes a community oriented approach to software development would be ideal for a wallet.

Just because a company does not fund the enemy and sell out their users, it doesn't mean its development must be community oriented. Samourai Wallet is a good example of a company that respected the fundamentals of Bitcoin and privacy without laying in bed with a blockchain surveillance firm.

But until then, does it make it right to bring up moralistic arguments and say that Wasabi should shut down because it could be done better?

I believe I have the right to pinpoint where I see suspicious activity. If a privacy-proclaimed company starts going in the opposite direction, people will stop using it. So, it's a matter of time until it goes out of business.

(Even though, at the draconian times we live in, every privacy-enhancing company will eventually shut down; ethical or not)

[Kruw]

You either work for a privacy solution, or you don't. If you're afraid the governments will be hostile to you, then don't work on a privacy service, or do it anonymously (like Monero development). It'd be completely reasonable and respectable. But, you can't have the cake and eat it too. Wasabi should either be "unfairly private" or shut their operations down. The path Wasabi chose was to lie in bed with the enemy, turn pro-censorship, anti-fungibility and sell out their users in general. To me that is unethical for a business of that kind.

Hey SCAMMER, did you really think you were going to post on this thread again without apologizing for getting everyone's coins stolen and data exposed? If you think it's so "unethical" then explain why you promoted a custodian that uses chain analysis to confiscate your coins "at any time at its own discretion, with or without reasons, with or without notification assuming no responsibility whatsoever."?

No. I'd explain to them that it is trustless in the sense that thousands of people smarter than both of us have reviewed the code, none of which has reached to a conclusion that Bitcoin does not do what it says it does. If lots of people suddenly reported losing coins from their Bitcoin wallet, I'd absolutely not recommend that piece of software regardless if its source code was free to study or not.

I would absolutely not invite them to study an entire repository, line-by-line, to validate such a thing. Just as I wouldn't invite anyone to study the design of a car and its manufacturer's infrastructure, if their cars were caught to suddenly explode. I would simply stuck to not recommending cars that are said to explode.

If you stick to recommending cars that don't explode, then why did you recommend Chipmixer? Why did you recommend Whirlwind? Why did you recommend Whirlpool?

I'll agree with Lucius here. I presume ChipMixer is very cautious when it comes to protecting their own privacy too. They probably write code, build the site, talk to us in this forum - all via anonymity-focused Internet solutions such as Tor or i2p. If I was running such mixer, I'd be sure I'd sooner or later have authorities stick their nose into my business.

Is there a chance some really big shit is going on in their lives, and they are incapable of going online? For like... A month? I really can't believe this is an exit scam. The service seemed legitimate.

I'm really pissed off, and not because I lost money; fortunately, I had grasped that "don't leave coins to third parties" cliché. I'm so pissed off because I've been advertising and recommending this shit for months, in such a way that I'm practically part of this scam. And it's just feels awful.

It makes you question the integrity of the service you're currently carrying in your signature.

You lured people into EVERY SINGLE ONE of these rugpulls, yet, you spent years deliberately lying about Wasabi, which is TRUSTLESS SOFTWARE.

While you were attacking trustless open source software, you promoted Mixtum who said they explicitly perform blockchain analysis on their users and confiscate their users coins "at any time at its own discretion, with or without reasons, with or without notification assuming no responsibility whatsoever."

3. Quality scoring of incoming transactions
We run a thorough background check of incoming funds through a proprietary algorithm.

2.1. Privacy Policy

Please refer to our Privacy Policy to get an understanding of our confidentiality obligations. You consent to the collection and use of information as described in the Privacy Policy.

2.2 Suspension or termination of services

[banned mixer] reserves the right to suspend or terminate access to services at any time at its own discretion, with or without reasons, with or without notification assuming no responsibility whatsoever.

For example, services may be suspended or terminated due to the following reasons:

    an actual or suspected violation of these Terms and Conditions;
    use of the service in such a manner that is conducive to the legal liability of [banned mixer] or Service malfunction;
    planned or unplanned maintenance, etc.

2.3 Unacceptable use

You agree that you personally will not commit, encourage or support the committal of:

    use of any unauthorized means to access the [banned mixer] service or use of any automated process or service (for example, spider, crawler or periodic caching of information stored or generated by [banned mixer]) except for the functions described in our API, as well as distribution of instructions, software or tools with this aim in view;
    modification, change, distortion or any other interference in work of the [banned mixer] service;
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    disabling, overload or degradation of [banned mixer] performance (or any other network connected to the service);
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[banned mixer] provides you with a personal nontransferable nonexclusive license to use the Service as it is stipulated for you by [banned mixer]. This license is provided under conditions and restricted to the provisions, stipulations and constraints stated in these Terms. Therewith, such license is intended for personal, noncommercial use. You may not copy, modify, create a derivative work of, decompile or otherwise attempt to extract the source code of the service or any part thereof, exclusive of data permitted by law, or expressly allowed by the [banned mixer] platform (use of templates, API, etc.). You may not reassign (or grant a sublicense of) your rights to use the service, or otherwise transfer any part of your rights in accordance with these Terms. These Rules do not provide you with any license or permission to copy, distribute, change or otherwise use any applications programming interface despite any provisions to the contrary. No property rights or ownership rights related to the Service are not granted to you according to these Terms. [banned mixer] reserves all rights that have not been expressly granted.

You are a traitor to Bitcoin's mission of self custody. You are an enemy of privacy. And most of all, you are a SCAMMER. Fuck off of this thread and start focusing on paying back the people who had their money stolen by the services you partnered with.

Pay back your victims BlackHatCoiner. You betrayed Satoshi's gift of self custody.

[BlackHatCoiner]

If you want to accuse me for scamming, there's the Reputation and the Scam Accusations boards. What I have promoted in my signature is beyond the subject of this thread, so please stop resorting to it if you don't have anything to say in defense of Wasabi.

[alani123]

But until then, does it make it right to bring up moralistic arguments and say that Wasabi should shut down because it could be done better?

I believe I have the right to pinpoint where I see suspicious activity. If a privacy-proclaimed company starts going in the opposite direction, people will stop using it. So, it's a matter of time until it goes out of business.

(Even though, at the draconian times we live in, every privacy-enhancing company will eventually shut down; ethical or not)

There's no wrong in pointing out what you believe is right. At least in my book. But hey, one has got to wonder, why is there an apparent lack of bitcoin privacy solutions?
The technology exists, someone has to keep running it though. Or better yet develop something better. If better solutions can exist elsewhere why aren't more people supporting them with funding and dev time?
Under these conditions I'm just appreciative of what we have, especially realizing what risks any btc privacy devs are taking.

For instance, Monero's community funds its own development. Bitcoiners don't care to do the same? And if there's something better for privacy, ok, great. But I think criticism also has to be directed at the community as a whole for not being more supportive other than just some privacy devs over other ones.

[Kruw]

If you want to accuse me for scamming, there's the reputation board. What I have promoted in my signature is beyond the subject of this thread, so please stop resorting to it if you don't have anything to say in defense of Wasabi.

It's not beyond the subject of this thread, you posted saying you stick with "tested, peer-reviewed software, running in a decentralized fashion, and avoid pro-censorship and anti-fungibility software which is subjected to arbitrary ethic rules":

Now that you have confirmed the answer to your question was "No", answer my original question:

Not yet. I haven't done my analysis to this. I generally don't spend hours on verifying every privacy-preserving software. I just stick with tested, peer-reviewed software, running in a decentralized fashion, and avoid pro-censorship and anti-fungibility software which is subjected to arbitrary ethic rules, and whose developers outright lie in front of me. It's a good life choice, and it has worked so far without issues.

This was a LIE. You told this lie so you could SCAM PEOPLE. You BACKSTABBED SATOSHI.

Is there a chance some really big shit is going on in their lives, and they are incapable of going online? For like... A month? I really can't believe this is an exit scam. The service seemed legitimate.

I'm really pissed off, and not because I lost money; fortunately, I had grasped that "don't leave coins to third parties" cliché. I'm so pissed off because I've been advertising and recommending this shit for months, in such a way that I'm practically part of this scam. And it's just feels awful.

It makes you question the integrity of the service you're currently carrying in your signature.

[cryptosize]

Well, speaking about operating in Russia, its elimination didn't take so long 

https://cryptobriefing.com/russia-crypto-ban-reinforce-ruble/

If that's actually true, then someone should tell Putin that his subjects are wrong to ban Bitcoin UNLESS they're not going to lead by example. Because what actually could fix Russia's problems, that are caused by sanctions, is actually Bitcoin. It was built for that kind of censorship - financial censorship.

To understand the Russian government's viewpoint, they should ban Bitcoin and other forms of currencies from public use to maintain the value of their currency to avoid currency collapse and therefore avoid economic collapse. BUT their government should probably be HODLing Bitcoin, and treat it like it's Gold.

Gold to pay for the war, and use Bitcoin if everything else fails.

"Russian government subsidizes crypto mining facility in Siberia

The facility, which opens this year, will possess 30,000 crypto mining machines, hire 100 workers and consume 100 megawatts from the power grid."

https://cointelegraph.com/news/russian-government-subsidies-crypto-mining-facility-in-siberia

I bet it's not Scrypt.

[cryptosize]

But until then, does it make it right to bring up moralistic arguments and say that Wasabi should shut down because it could be done better?

I believe I have the right to pinpoint where I see suspicious activity. If a privacy-proclaimed company starts going in the opposite direction, people will stop using it. So, it's a matter of time until it goes out of business.

(Even though, at the draconian times we live in, every privacy-enhancing company will eventually shut down; ethical or not)

There's no wrong in pointing out what you believe is right. At least in my book. But hey, one has got to wonder, why is there an apparent lack of bitcoin privacy solutions?
The technology exists, someone has to keep running it though. Or better yet develop something better. If better solutions can exist elsewhere why aren't more people supporting them with funding and dev time?
Under these conditions I'm just appreciative of what we have, especially realizing what risks any btc privacy devs are taking.

For instance, Monero's community funds its own development. Bitcoiners don't care to do the same? And if there's something better for privacy, ok, great. But I think criticism also has to be directed at the community as a whole for not being more supportive other than just some privacy devs over other ones.

Monero is like OpenBSD: a niche UNIX distro that is secure by default (whether you like it or not).

Linux on the other hand needs optional stuff like SELinux and even in that case, I doubt it can reach OpenBSD's paranoid level of security.

If you got the analogy, then you get my point.

We have to accept Bitcoin for what it is (Satoshi had thought about implementing ring signatures, but maybe he didn't have enough time/expertise or maybe he lacked the willpower to make it private by default/piss off the governments and/or enforce a hard fork/piss off the community, we'll never know!).

BTC will ALWAYS require external software/entities (mixers) to become somewhat private and even in that case, you're at the mercy of governments, since those entities are usually centralized and thus prone to shut down.

Bitcoin for savings, Monero for spending seems like a good enough tradeoff if you ask me.

But if you're one of those Bitcoin maxis that believe Monero is a "shitcoin", then I don't know what to tell you.

[NotATether]

You either work for a privacy solution, or you don't. If you're afraid the governments will be hostile to you, then don't work on a privacy service, or do it anonymously (like Monero development). It'd be completely reasonable and respectable. But, you can't have the cake and eat it too. Wasabi should either be "unfairly private" or shut their operations down. The path Wasabi chose was to lie in bed with the enemy, turn pro-censorship, anti-fungibility and sell out their users in general. To me that is unethical for a business of that kind.

Hey SCAMMER, did you really think you were going to post on this thread again without apologizing for getting everyone's coins stolen and data exposed? If you think it's so "unethical" then explain why you promoted a custodian that uses chain analysis to confiscate your coins "at any time at its own discretion, with or without reasons, with or without notification assuming no responsibility whatsoever."?

I think the "scammer" around here is you. One of these days, zkSNACKs is going to be coughing up suspicious UTXOs to the authorities that's going to lead to a couple arrests, of good or bad people, all because your project proclaims a false sense of privacy.

If we are going to be calling promoters scammers now then I think this is fair game.

[Kruw]

I think the scammer around here is you.

How am I a scammer?

One of these days, zkSNACKs is going to be coughing up suspicious UTXOs to the authorities that's going to lead to a couple arrests, of good or bad people, all because your project proclaims a false sense of "privacy".

If we are going to be calling promoters scammers now then I think this is fair game.

zkSNACKS doesn't have anything to cough up because Wasabi is completely private. You are the only person who has access to your own data, we already covered this:

Literally days after you were yapping about redemption for Samourai collecting xpubs, now your wallet is collecting Personal Identifying Information itself. Will it be enough to save it? Probably not.

Unlike Samourai which records all of their users' financial activity by default, Wasabi does not collect any personally identifying information whatsoever:

=========================================
II. PRIVACY POLICY
=========================================

    This policy describes the ways zkSNACKs collects, stores, uses and protects personal information. The purpose of this policy is to ensure that zkSNACKs complies with applicable European Union (EU) and other statutory data protection laws and regulations, and ensures that users are provided privacy protection.
    Data protection laws are generally relevant in case any processing of personal data is concerned. The terms used within the scope of this data protection declaration are defined in and by the General Data Protection Regulation of the European Union. As such, the wide definition of "processing" of personal data means any operation or set of operations performed on personal data.

Personally Identifiable Information
===================================

    “Personally identifiable information” (“personal information”) is any information that can be directly associated with a specific person and can be used to identify that person. A prime example of identifiable information is a person’s name.

Handling Information
====================

   Since we are working on privacy, and our mission is to regain personal privacy, our Services are designed to be used without indication of any personal data. For this reason we do not have any kind of data collecting solutions built into our products. There may only be one personal data processing in our Service, for customer support in case of technical problems: visitors may, indicate their email addresses voluntarily to get notifications in case of any potential technical problems or other inquiries. These e-mail addresses are solely used to answer users’ questions and are erased after 100 days. In this case, the processing of the data is based on a freely given consent to Article 6 (1) (a) of the GDPR and is aimed at the effective handling of the complaint.
    We use GitHub as the main platform for users’ technical questions and issues, and we do not retain any data that can be subsequently identified / associated with the user.
   We expressly declare that we do not manage or store any other personally identifiable information.
    By visiting the Website and using our Services, You agree with this policy, in accordance with Section 1.2 of the Terms and Conditions

All User Information is Confidential
====================================

   Because we cannot link Your wallet and Your personal information (such as Your name and IP address) provided under the Service, Your personal information is safe and cannot be accessed by our staff or third parties.
    zkSNACKs will protect processed data in the customer Service process adequately against unauthorized access (of third parties) in accordance with the provisions of the legal framework of Republic of Seychelles. We will only process data which are essential to provide our Services. Data will not be used or stored by other means than set out in this document and are made accessible only to a restricted and necessary number of persons. We do not transfer any personal data to third parties.
    All employees of zkSNACKs have been informed about applicable data protection provisions as well as data security measures and are bound to our privacy practices. All staff are bound by confidentiality agreements.

Use of Cookies
==============

    A cookie is a small piece of data that a website asks Your browser to store on Your computer or mobile device. The cookie allows the website to “remember” Your actions or preferences over time.
   We expressly declare that we do not use cookies.

You can verify for yourself that Wasabi provides completely trustless privacy since every single line of code is open source: https://github.com/zkSnacks/WalletWasabi

[BlackHatCoiner]

But hey, one has got to wonder, why is there an apparent lack of bitcoin privacy solutions?

Because of two reasons.

• Working on a privacy service puts you in danger.
• It is very difficult to gain privacy in Bitcoin. No ring signatures and no confidential transactions, that's already a major disadvantage. Coinjoin can help, but since there are strong privacy technologies implemented elsewhere which can't be introduced in Bitcoin without a softfork, it discourages development further.

Under these conditions I'm just appreciative of what we have, especially realizing what risks any btc privacy devs are taking.

Laying in bed with the enemy is not worthy of respect. I don't get why it's so difficult to understand that.

It's not beyond the subject of this thread, you posted saying you stick with "tested, peer-reviewed software, running in a decentralized fashion, and avoid pro-censorship and anti-fungibility software which is subjected to arbitrary ethic rules"

And that's what I do. I no longer use mixers, mainly because I don't want to hand over custody. I have no problem directing to such services, if you're fine with putting some trust to the people behind it.

According to your reasoning, people should be forbidden from recommending VPNs, because they have said they use Tor to browse anonymously. According to my reasoning, people have the freedom to choose after they've studied the cons and pros of each.

[Kruw]

https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-is-discontinuing-its-coinjoin-coordination-service-1st-of-june/

[dkbit98]

https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-is-discontinuing-its-coinjoin-coordination-service-1st-of-june/

Totally expected.
RIP Wasabi.

Many of you guys (including kruw) wasted so much precious time arguing and fighting each other for months and years, and you don't understand that we all have the common enemy.
Things are more serious than people think and they will soon start to knock on doors because you said, wrote or did something years ago.
Wasabi devs should not think they wont be arrested just because you stopped doing coinjoin after Samourai devs got arrested.

[bitmover]

https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-is-discontinuing-its-coinjoin-coordination-service-1st-of-june/

This decision was made after careful consideration and with a heavy heart. Throughout our history, we have always made efforts to operate under legal clarity. At this point, we need to regain more certainty before moving forward.

Sad to see this. Looks like wasabi/zkSNACKs are afraid of legal problems similar to samourai.

I am happy to see wasabi will continue to work and to be funded by zkSNACKs. I hope you can implement lightning, swaps or some other stuff to make money and keep the good service.

[Z-tight]

After Samourai was taken down, i saw that some users were already saying Wasabi was next, it didn't take long and they didn't wait for the government to knock on their doors, so they decided to stop their CoinJoin service.

Things are more serious than people think and they will soon start to knock on doors because you said, wrote or did something years ago.

I agree with you, and with every privacy solution and services that gets taken down or quits their operation, the more i believe that Theymos was right with the decision he took on banning mixers in the forum, in order to 'protect' this platform from the government.

[Kruw]

Totally expected.
RIP Wasabi.

Many of you guys (including kruw) wasted so much precious time arguing and fighting each other for months and years, and you don't understand that we all have the common enemy.

None of my time was wasted. I am proud of every Bitcointalk user I prevented from losing their coins and leaking their data to the custodial mixing scams promoted here by o_e_l_e_o, BlackHatCoiner, Pmalek, and others.

Wasabi is the way forward. Now, more than ever, the Bitcoin community has to rally around it and let the coinjoins continue to flow.

[satscraper]

I have never used CoinJoin believing that it creates illusion of improved privacy and at the same time  jeopardies  my bitcoin  stash.

Nevertheless, I regret to witness such developments relevant to this technique as it is not certain now that other ones will be not harmstrung by policy.

Are we already in nineteen eighty four?

[ABCbits]

https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-is-discontinuing-its-coinjoin-coordination-service-1st-of-june/

Damn, i just write this statement 5 days ago.

What is the assessment here? Are Wassabi developers comfortable continuing to operate their company and develop their projects as they currently do given the developments regarding Samurai wallet? Hopefully it through reduced to no US ties they will have no problems.

If they stop WabiSabi (name of their CoinJoin protocol) development or their mainnet WabiSabi coordinator now, people will assume the controversial blacklist[1] isn't effective to ensure survival of zkSNACKS and what they develop. So i expect they'll continue do what they currently do.

[1] https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-blacklisting-update/

Anyway, does that mean zkSNACKs also stop developing WabiSabi protocol or new privacy feature?

[witcher_sense]

https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-is-discontinuing-its-coinjoin-coordination-service-1st-of-june/

Centralized privacy enchancing tools have always been nonsense.

[NotATether]

https://blog.wasabiwallet.io/zksnacks-is-discontinuing-its-coinjoin-coordination-service-1st-of-june/

So in the end, all of your bickering about Wasabi's privacy versus other wallets was for nothing.

[Kruw]

So in the end, all of your bickering about Wasabi's privacy versus other wallets was for nothing.

No it wasn't, I run my own coordinator. You can connect to it by adding this line to your Wasabi config file:

"MainNetCoordinatorUri": "https://btcpay.kruw.io/plugins/wabisabi-coordinator/",

[alani123]

Wasabi is the way forward. Now, more than ever, the Bitcoin community has to rally around it and let the coinjoins continue to flow.

With the main (only?) revenue source of Wasabi wallet gone, as well as its main feature, what will be the incentives moving forward?
Seems too unclear, maybe the team hasn't figured it out either. From what I understand from the post though, the wallet will also remove the ability to run coinjoin features on other coordinators from upcoming updates?

[Kruw]

With the main (only?) revenue source of Wasabi wallet gone, as well as its main feature, what will be the incentives moving forward?
Seems too unclear, maybe the team hasn't figured it out either. From what I understand from the post though, the wallet will also remove the ability to run coinjoin features on other coordinators from upcoming updates?

There's no plans to remove the coinjoin feature. It wouldn't matter if it was because the code has been open source since the very beginning, anyone can fork it.

[alani123]

With the main (only?) revenue source of Wasabi wallet gone, as well as its main feature, what will be the incentives moving forward?
Seems too unclear, maybe the team hasn't figured it out either. From what I understand from the post though, the wallet will also remove the ability to run coinjoin features on other coordinators from upcoming updates?

There's no plans to remove the coinjoin feature. It wouldn't matter if it was because the code has been open source since the very beginning, anyone can fork it.

When I read:

Wasabi Wallet will continue to function as a regular bitcoin wallet, users can generate private keys to receive and send bitcoin. Even without coinjoins, Wasabi’s client-side filtering architecture, Tor integration and custom coin selection make it the most private light wallet available. However, the nature of the bitcoin blockchain prevents users from obtaining complete privacy without coinjoins.

via

What I understand is that there won't be a continued support for coinjoin features on mainstream Wasabi. Yeah maybe someone could run an old release or fork it though but I was wondering about Wasabi as we know it, same team etc.

[Kruw]

What I understand is that there won't be a continued support for coinjoin features on mainstream Wasabi. Yeah maybe someone could run an old release or fork it though but I was wondering about Wasabi as we know it, same team etc.

Most of the previous team will likely stop contributing without funding, and the maintainers will not be working on coinjoins. Fortunately, the open source project was launched 2 years ago and is a stable piece of software.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Seems too unclear, maybe the team hasn't figured it out either. From what I understand from the post though, the wallet will also remove the ability to run coinjoin features on other coordinators from upcoming updates?

They're in a quite difficult situation, as far as anyone can tell. The fact that they are shutting down the main coordinator means they'd probably having legal problems otherwise. The good question is if they'll continue developing Wasabi as privacy enhancing software in general. If I had to guess, they'll probably stop developing as time goes by.

Nobody in their right mind would use Wasabi after the thousand red flags, but still, the liquidity which was sitting on the main coordinator could attract those few left. Now that the authorities are hostile on everyone writing Bitcoin privacy software, they'll probably not switch to decentralized.

I might hate Wasabi. And I've done all I could to warn about their intentions and suspicious activities. But, even for my enemy, I wouldn't have wished being shut down by the state like that. Nobody deserves it, I think.

[Pmalek]

None of my time was wasted. I am proud of every Bitcointalk user I prevented from losing their coins and leaking their data to the custodial mixing scams promoted here by o_e_l_e_o, BlackHatCoiner, Pmalek, and others.

I saw the blog post yesterday, but didn't want to rub salt into the wound. Not because you don't deserve to. You do deserve it. But since you felt obliged to mention my name in the hour of your greatest failure, I will share a few words.

Wasabi is the way forward.

Wasabi and zkSNACKs have failed. The mission is over. You have sold out everyone you possibly could, and now you are packing your bags. You have failed to provide privacy to your customers, but you were successful in cooperating with the enemy.

Despite your funding of blockchain analysis and working with your handlers, they didn't want you. That's what happens when you join the dark side. You get used and spit up. You shouldn't have done it. You were ready to drop to your knees and pull down your pants, but no one was interested.

Wasabi could have gone down in history as one of the best in the game, but you didn't. And you Kruw will be remembered as the lying and manipulative scum who was looking forward to someone's death. That someone, who, in contrast to you, wasn't ready to spread their cheeks. 

Your mission is a failure!

[Kruw]

Nobody in their right mind would use Wasabi after the thousand red flags

Wasabi is completely trustless software, there are no "red flags". You are a SCAMMER who lured people into custodians who stole their funds.

Wasabi and zkSNACKs have failed. The mission is over. You have sold out everyone you possibly could, and now you are packing your bags.

You're WRONG. Wasabi is decentralized open source software, I run my own coordinator:

No it wasn't, I run my own coordinator. You can connect to it by adding this line to your Wasabi config file:

"MainNetCoordinatorUri": "https://btcpay.kruw.io/plugins/wabisabi-coordinator/",

Wasabi could have gone down in history as one of the best in the game, but you didn't.

You're WRONG. Wasabi has turned over 300,000 non private Bitcoins into private Bitcoins. It is quite literally the most successful privacy project in Bitcoin.

And you Kruw will be remembered as the lying and manipulative scum who was looking forward to someone's death.

What lie are you accusing me of?  Use a direct quote. You are a SCAMMER who lured people into custodians who stole their funds.

[DaveF]

I just find the most interesting part that they stopped supporting people in the US and then just shut down.

So were most of the TXs coming from the US or was there other pressure or my view, that most people everywhere were just not using it and there was no profit to be made and this is just a convenient excuse to get rid of the service.

-Dave

[Kruw]

I just find the most interesting part that they stopped supporting people in the US and then just shut down.

So were most of the TXs coming from the US or was there other pressure or my view, that most people everywhere were just not using it and there was no profit to be made and this is just a convenient excuse to get rid of the service.

-Dave

There's no problems of profitability, volumes are huge and growing:

[alani123]

I just find the most interesting part that they stopped supporting people in the US and then just shut down.

So were most of the TXs coming from the US or was there other pressure or my view, that most people everywhere were just not using it and there was no profit to be made and this is just a convenient excuse to get rid of the service.

-Dave

I don't think you can realistically block users from a specific country with FOSS software. CZ is facing a prison sentence for simply the feds claiming users could overcome binance.com limitations with a VPN and fake ID. Wasabi didn't have KYC, didn't do IP checks, it was just FOSS software running locally. The devs could block the website to American IPs but it would be ridiculously easy to still get the software. So if  the feds eyed privacy software they could just send the devs in prison, or at least make them face a very tedious court battle abroad like Julian Assange is.

I don't wish that to anyone, so really I think them shutting down the privacy part of the project is the right choice for their own wellbeing. If anyone wants to fork it, they're free to do so. It better be done anonymously too so it's harder to get leads against anyone. Wasabi's team was very public with their development. I just hope feds don't come for them even after they shut down the privacy aspect of their software.

[examplens]

I don't wish that to anyone, so really I think them shutting down the privacy part of the project is the right choice for their own wellbeing. If anyone wants to fork it, they're free to do so. It better be done anonymously too so it's harder to get leads against anyone. Wasabi's team was very public with their development. I just hope feds don't come for them even after they shut down the privacy aspect of their software.

This decision is understandable, nothing is worth it for someone to spend time in prison.
It is quite obvious that this hunt by the US authorities against services that increase anonymity will also have some other effects, I believe unwanted for them. Legal services like Wasabi will remain in legal streams, but part of the functions (like Coinjoin) will be forked into a new "illegal" branch that they cannot control or punish. Too much pressure was always the wrong way.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I just find the most interesting part that they stopped supporting people in the US and then just shut down.

Nothing interesting. Blocking access to US people would be just another "precautionary" measure after the Samourai devs arrest, just like the blacklisting. Then, after acknowledging the risk, they said to shut it down sooner rather than later.

I don't wish that to anyone, so really I think them shutting down the privacy part of the project is the right choice for their own wellbeing.

Quite a big part. Wasabi is supposed to be a privacy-focused wallet. Removing the privacy part is like removing half of what it aims to address.  

[DaveF]

I just find the most interesting part that they stopped supporting people in the US and then just shut down.

Nothing interesting. Blocking access to US people would be just another "precautionary" measure after the Samourai devs arrest, just like the blacklisting. Then, after acknowledging the risk, they said to shut it down sooner rather than later.
...

A lot of casinos and exchanges are out there that just block US IPs and call it a day.
And many of them move a lot more BTC in a day then Wasabi ever did.
Not a 100% perfect analogy but if all some exchange is asking for is an email to withdraw 1BTC or so a day you can move a lot of BTC somewhat easily.

-Dave

[Kruw]

MASSIVE coinjoins are happening with huge volumes:

387 BTC - https://mempool.space/tx/0375655aa7b30074bd4a2c3b174c3b5db6745ec8b5fc94eccb926615223f1d14
368 BTC - https://mempool.space/tx/49645b71f9e2b538a7dd240f0b1a02e3e264b783feb2d496b839359e50abf649

[Wind_FURY]

>>snip<<

I am still surprised you trust these politicians and Governments that will do anything to stay a float and try to control their people, or should we say flock? Politicians will follow any trend so long as it benefits them and feeds their greed. Once they have taken a grip of their people, they will ban whatever they think is no longer useful to them.

 

Before you post, could you please read what was posted two times and try to get the context? Especially before snipping. What I said was that some of them might have gotten smarter and have gone deeper in their understanding of Bitcoin. Because I give SOME credit doesn't mean I trust them. We should always get the actual context, no?

[Dont Trust Verify]

Nobody in their right mind would use Wasabi after the thousand red flags, but still, the liquidity which was sitting on the main coordinator could attract those few left. Now that the authorities are hostile on everyone writing Bitcoin privacy software, they'll probably not switch to decentralized.

I might hate Wasabi. And I've done all I could to warn about their intentions and suspicious activities. But, even for my enemy, I wouldn't have wished being shut down by the state like that. Nobody deserves it, I think.

Why didn’t you warn people about the thousands of red flags with ChipMixer, Whirlwind, MyCryptoMixer, Sinbad, YoMix, UniJoin, Tumbler io?

How many users were rugpulled because trusted members of the bitcointalk community recommended these scams?

[BlackHatCoiner]

Why didn’t you warn people about the thousands of red flags with ChipMixer, Whirlwind, MyCryptoMixer, Sinbad, YoMix, UniJoin, Tumbler io?

What thousands of red flags? Lol. ChipMixer was the most decent mixer until it was confiscated by the authorities. Whirlwind suddenly stopped operating and every user who deposited, got refunded. As for custody of the coins, I have warned every single time that you're putting trust that it won't take the users' coins and disappear, and that it is not a honeypot. If you're OK under these terms, then what's the problem?

How many users were rugpulled because trusted members of the bitcointalk community recommended these scams?

Am I now representing the "trusted members of Bitcointalk" as a whole? If you want to accuse me, let me know in the Reputation board. I'm personally sleeping easy knowing that I've always clarified the potential events that might occur when you forfeit custody of your coins.

[PrivacyG]

But I thought Wasabi was so keen on working with the proper Blockchain Analysis company to block any sort of criminal funds coming or going through their beloved Wasabi Wallet Coin Joins.  Why are they backing out now?  I understand they were lying all along and were never actually protecting us from receiving Tainted Bitcoin as Kruw kept stating over and over like a talking parrot?  Because why shut down in fear if you are licking every inch of the boots of regulators and Governments?  You should be fine, correct?

Now all these accusations Kruw kept spitting out are looking absolutely ridiculous in the light of zkSNACKs shutting down.  Kruw throwing darts at all the Privacy Enhancing Services that shut down, then zkSNACKs announcing a shut down themselves.  Makes you look like such a nice and sincere guy, Kruw!

Since zkSNACKs is shutting down, who is willing to risk, start and run a new coordinator?  Wasabi got in bed with our enemy so they could save their own ass.  Now they are kneeling completely to the enemy and shutting down YET AGAIN to save their own ass.  Kruw keeps praising Wasabi still.  Who is the first Wasabi can laugh their ass off about for deciding to risk running a coordinator now and having the United States throw pointy darts at?

Yet Wasabi calls themselves saviors of Bitcoin fungibility.

Hey, Kruw.  I have a question for you.  Now that you accuse EVERY SINGLE Privacy solution other than Wasabi of being scammers for either quitting on us or 'permanently destroying the Privacy of their customers'.  How does the average Wasabi user continue to keep their very private Wasabi Coin Joined UTXOs private after the first of June?  Since probably over 95 to 99 percent of the Wasabi Coin Joiners used zkSNACKs as their coordinator, what do the people who do not want to trust and use any other coordinator do to preserve their Privacy?

Or is their Privacy going to be ruined as well now, just like the situation of all the other customers of the Services you are accusing, considering according to your statement this was the only real Privacy tool for Bitcoin?  Because without continuously cycling through Wasabi Coin Joins and giving you a percentage for it just so you could laugh in our face and sleep with the enemy again, how do we keep a UTXO Private?

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The privacy policy you quoted quite explicitly declares that some data is collected by the service (ironically the part you bolded)

What could of been a simple statement about NOT collecting ANY kind of information was written instead as a very double edged Privacy Policy.  On one hand they say the collected information is safe and inaccessible.  On the other hand they say they ONLY process data essential to provide their Services.

TRUSTLESS, everybody!

we cannot link Your wallet and Your personal information (such as Your name and IP address) provided under the Service, Your personal information is safe and cannot be accessed by our staff or third parties.

We will only process data which are essential to provide our Services. Data will not be used or stored by other means than set out in this document and are made accessible only to a restricted and necessary number of persons.

[Kruw]

Since zkSNACKs is shutting down, who is willing to risk, start and run a new coordinator?

I'm running one. Where's your coordinator, pussy?

No it wasn't, I run my own coordinator. You can connect to it by adding this line to your Wasabi config file:

"MainNetCoordinatorUri": "https://btcpay.kruw.io/plugins/wabisabi-coordinator/",

Hey, Kruw.  I have a question for you.  Now that you accuse EVERY SINGLE Privacy solution other than Wasabi of being scammers for either quitting on us or 'permanently destroying the Privacy of their customers'.  How does the average Wasabi user continue to keep their very private Wasabi Coin Joined UTXOs private after the first of June?

They can use your coinjoin coordinator. Can you remind me how to connect to your coinjoin coordinator, PrivacyG?

[PrivacyG]

I'm running one. Where's your coordinator, pussy?

Is your coordinator refusing certain UTXOs from registering to Coin Joins?

[Kruw]

Is your coordinator refusing certain UTXOs from registering to Coin Joins?

No, is yours? Wait, don't tell me... YOU'RE TOO MUCH OF A PUSSY TO RUN ONE??? 

[PrivacyG]

Is your coordinator refusing certain UTXOs from registering to Coin Joins?

No, is yours?

So you are going to allow SAM BANKMAN-FRIED to USE your coordinator if he wanted to Coin Join stolen FTX funds?  I thought you said otherwise here Kruw where you justified why zkSNACKs working with Blockchain Analysis was for the greater good,

As a coinjoin coordinator, would you deny service to Sam Bankman Fried if he wanted to coinjoin stolen FTX funds?  Or would you make his stolen coins private instead?

Source, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5286821.msg62072923#msg62072923

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Would you help Sam hide stolen money from the victims, Kruw?

Why would you help Sam hide the stolen money from his victims?

Source, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5286821.msg62074164#msg62074164

I mean.  In the same post you even said MINERS should apply Censorship to stop criminals!

Sure, I'll approach it from the base layer:  As a miner, would you deny service to Sam Bankman Fried if he wanted to coinjoin stolen FTX funds?  Or would you make his stolen coins private instead?

Source, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5286821.msg62074164#msg62074164

Why are you NOT applying Censorship then?  Or is this another lie of yours, just like all the others we all got to unveil in the past?

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I do not know how to post quotes from locked topics so if any body could PM me with a guide I would be grateful.  I saw one around a while ago but can not find it any more.

[Kruw]

I do not know how to post quotes from locked topics so if any body could PM me with a guide I would be grateful.  I saw one around a while ago but can not find it any more.

Here's the guide you need: https://docs.btcpayserver.org/Wabisabi/#running-a-coordinator

Let me know when you are done setting up your coordinator and I'll help you test it.

[PrivacyG]

Here's the guide you need: https://docs.btcpayserver.org/Wabisabi/#running-a-coordinator

Let me know when you are done setting up your coordinator and I'll help you test it.

You replied completely off the topic of my post.  I never asked about a guide for running my own coordinator.  Are you spamming now?

I want an answer. Why you are justifying zkSNACKs Censorship while deciding to not apply Censorship on your own coordinator?

What are you afraid of?  Answer, pussy!

[Dont Trust Verify]

Why didn’t you warn people about the thousands of red flags with ChipMixer, Whirlwind, MyCryptoMixer, Sinbad, YoMix, UniJoin, Tumbler io?

What thousands of red flags? Lol. ChipMixer was the most decent mixer until it was confiscated by the authorities. Whirlwind suddenly stopped operating and every user who deposited, got refunded. As for custody of the coins, I have warned every single time that you're putting trust that it won't take the users' coins and disappear, and that it is not a honeypot. If you're OK under these terms, then what's the problem?

How many users were rugpulled because trusted members of the bitcointalk community recommended these scams?

Am I now representing the "trusted members of Bitcointalk" as a whole? If you want to accuse me, let me know in the Reputation board. I'm personally sleeping easy knowing that I've always clarified the potential events that might occur when you forfeit custody of your coins.

Everybody already knows you can lose funds in custodial mixers, you would have to be a moron not to know this. Just because you disclosed this already known fact doesn’t absolve you from using your reputation to legitimize scams. Users of the Whirlwind scam only got refunded because there was some funds left in escrow which they hadn’t taken back yet. We don’t know how many victims didn’t ask for a refund for fear of being deanonymized. If anybody got rugged for an amount greater than what was in escrow they got completely screwed over.

You can try to revise history and use whatever euphemisms for exit scam but you’ve already admitted it was a scam and that you were part of it. Most scammers sleep easy, you’re not the only one. It just means your greed is greater than your integrity.

[Kruw]

I never asked about a guide for running my own coordinator.

Why aren't you running your own coordinator? Do you just not care about privacy enough?

Just because you disclosed this already known fact doesn’t absolve you from using your reputation to legitimize scams.

Exactly. BlackHatCoiner is just Roger Ver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP1YsMlrfF0

You can try to revise history and use whatever euphemisms for exit scam but you’ve already admitted it was a scam and that you were part of it. Most scammers sleep easy, you’re not the only one. It just means your greed is greater than your integrity.

100% accurate. BlackHatCoiner has a lot of money to pay back to the victims of his scams, he made a lot of money from promoting them.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Users of the Whirlwind scam only got refunded because there was some funds left in escrow which they hadn’t taken back yet.

Nice. We went from "scammers" to "hadn't withdrawn their escrow money yet". Users got refunded, because Whirlwind expected such incidents to occur. And even if they didn't, scammers don't leave $40k as escrow, in case shit hits the fan.

We don’t know how many victims didn’t ask for a refund for fear of being deanonymized

You could accept a refund anonymously.

You can try to revise history and use whatever euphemisms for exit scam but you’ve already admitted it was a scam and that you were part of it

It feels awful when you promote a service which is turned down by the government, but it is even more awful if that service turns out to be a scam. However, I think I had made that post under the impression they took the users' money and left, whereas I later realized that the campaign manager could cover potential losses, which is something that never happens on an exit scam.

Has any Wasabi shill read the discussion made after that post of mine, or are you just trying to make me look bad deliberately?

100% accurate. BlackHatCoiner has a lot of money to pay back to the victims of his scams, he made a lot of money from promoting them.

Gather your evidence and make an accusation, then: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=83.0.

[Kruw]

It feels awful when you promote a service which is turned down by the government, but it is even more awful if that service turns out to be a scam. However, I think I had made that post under the impression they took the users' money and left, whereas I later realized that the campaign manager could cover potential losses, which is something that never happens on an exit scam.

Remember that you also promoted the ChipMixer scam as well.

[Dont Trust Verify]

Users got refunded, because Whirlwind expected such incidents to occur. And even if they didn't, scammers don't leave $40k as escrow, in case shit hits the fan.

Considering how much money goes through mixers, $40k was a drop in the bucket. When you look at scam accusations made against mixers, it is usually whale amounts worth multiple BTC that get stolen. The price of Bitcoin has appreciated significantly so the $14k DAI remaining in the fund probably won’t be nearly enough to cover the losses from somebody making a late claim.

Giving users a false sense of trust with the escrow was a nice tactic to lure in potential victims. From the looks of it, they actually succeeded. The address used to pool deposits grew from 3 BTC to over 13 BTC. Doing some rough math, they spent less than 3 BTC in their signature campaign. They would’ve made ~7 BTC in profit from their scam but it might be greater if they were withdrawing smaller amounts from the pool before they rugpulled.

You could accept a refund anonymously.

This still exposes your deposit address in the letter of guarantee. The campaign manager could potentially figure out if your deposited funds were involved in illegal activity and tell law enforcement to track the refund address.

It feels awful when you promote a service which is turned down by the government, but it is even more awful if that service turns out to be a scam. However, I think I had made that post under the impression they took the users' money and left, whereas I later realized that the campaign manager could cover potential losses, which is something that never happens on an exit scam.

Has any Wasabi shill read the discussion made after that post of mine, or are you just trying to make me look bad deliberately?

Your initial impression was correct. They walked off with hundreds of thousands of dollars. You made yourself look bad with your complicity.

[BlackHatCoiner]

The address used to pool deposits grew from 3 BTC to over 13 BTC.

I may be wrong, but I see about the same amounts being deposited and withdrawn before and after their departure, which was early August 2023, if I recall correctly.

This is their address: bc1qf8h5k6sash8007vpesymxkw2xsg5d0r3j4l5vmcrwpz2pqu66fjstzgd3r. Their last withdrawal before they stop processing payments happened in 9th of August 2023, in 96f687580d2ddec4328b9fca8aff8edda74c0f7de16b8be2da81413545308de3, correct? You're right that according to their last consolidations which happened in February 2024, as we can see, they are quite high in value, but how confident are we that these are customers' funds? If you check the history of that address, you can see that it was having more than just 7. The address was having more than 9 for some time, and people were withdrawing frequently, the address' balance was going up and down.

It would seem an exit scam, if there was a transaction in which they received 10 bitcoin, as an example, and then immediately stopped processing payments. But, this didn't happen. What's the evidence that their pool grew from 3 to 13?

This still exposes your deposit address in the letter of guarantee. The campaign manager could potentially figure out if your deposited funds were involved in illegal activity and tell law enforcement to track the refund address.

So, you would have trusted a service which turned out to be "scam", but you would hesitate contacting a trustworthy campaign manager. Got it.