What is the difference between a BTC Mixer and No KYC casino

[Bureau]

After the 1st of January, all Bitcoin Mixers would be banned from the forum, that is what I understand after reading theymos topic. My question is for everyone! Consider a casino platform that does not want its users to go through KYC. They have a smart contract that directly forms a bridge to wallets on either the Ethereum blockchain or the Binance chain. They use the same technique as a Bitcoin mixer wherein they convert deposited Bitcoin to what we know as Wrapped Bitcoin on either of these two or other blockchains, isn't that a mixer when you withdraw the deposit amount to your chosen wallet?  

I understand that it is not possible to deposit Bitcoin on a smart contract-based non-kyc casino. What I understand is that it is easy to convert Bitcoin into other altcoin-based Bitcoin and then what will happen? Will theymos again ban them? I have other options to hide my Bitcoin identity such as I can convert my Bitcoin to XMR and then it won't be easy to trace it.

What do you think will be the next option for Bitcoin mixers, is it no KYC casino or Monero?

[_act_]

From those long writing, theymos is only referring to centralized mixers. They are the mixers that are well advertised on this forum through signature campaign.

You know exchanges are like mixers, also casinos and other gambling sites are not among what theymos was talking about. He is also not talking about using decentralized exchanges.

[Adbitco]

From the information and update given by theymos I didn't find any ban place on casino or exchange it was periodically place on mixers, if theymos knew about it there's no way he would speak only to bitcoin mixers to ban by 2024 January 1. This shows that you won't mention or post a link related to bitcoin mixer here or even refer someone to mixers please you can have a re-read of what the content of that massage is saying. Now if you talking of Non kyc casinos is just saying a decentralized casinos which is mostly of wallet connection to make deposit and withdrawal except for the centralized casinos that asked of users identity to deposit & withdraw large funds.  

You know exchanges are like mixers

Wait for a moment, I am being confused here.. but didn't find this in his post to also place same ban on exchange, did he?

[BIT-BENDER]

What do you think will be the next option for Bitcoin mixers, is it no KYC casino or Monero?

Next option in what aspect? Bitcoin mixers won't stop because of theymos post on banning mixers from the forum, mixers are platforms that aren't ran on the forum. Bitcoin mixers are only advertising on the forum and as with the post by theymos all they have to do is seek other means to advertise their platforms.

[BlackHatCoiner]

The difference is that a Bitcoin mixer advertises itself as providing privacy, I guess. The real question is what's the difference between a mixer and any method which involves obfuscating your coins like coinjoins and Monero. Practically, the latter are even better for concealing illicit activity, because they are unstoppable and do not rely on a central point of failure which can confiscate property.

What do you think will be the next option for Bitcoin mixers, is it no KYC casino or Monero?

We really don't know. This ban was unexpected. I think we are all in the process of trying to grasp what has happened. I am pretty confident that theymos would yield to government pressure and censor no-KYC casinos, Monero, or any other content if the authorities apply enough influence.

[Beparanf]

What do you think will be the next option for Bitcoin mixers, is it no KYC casino or Monero?

Most of the no KYC casino is pretty shady so it’s really not a viable option for mixing since there’s a chance to lose your deposit before you can even withdraw your funds.

XMR is the next option for mixing alternatives since it’s just a simple buy and sell if you can find a decent exchange that offers it. Bitcoin mixer will not be gone in general. I believe they will continue exist and use different crypto forum as long as there’s demand for their service.

[Saint-loup]

After the 1st of January, all Bitcoin Mixers would be banned from the forum, that is what I understand after reading theymos topic. My question is for everyone! Consider a casino platform that does not want its users to go through KYC. They have a smart contract that directly forms a bridge to wallets on either the Ethereum blockchain or the Binance chain. They use the same technique as a Bitcoin mixer wherein they convert deposited Bitcoin to what we know as Wrapped Bitcoin on either of these two or other blockchains, isn't that a mixer when you withdraw the deposit amount to your chosen wallet?  

I understand that it is not possible to deposit Bitcoin on a smart contract-based non-kyc casino. What I understand is that it is easy to convert Bitcoin into other altcoin-based Bitcoin and then what will happen? Will theymos again ban them? I have other options to hide my Bitcoin identity such as I can convert my Bitcoin to XMR and then it won't be easy to trace it.

What do you think will be the next option for Bitcoin mixers, is it no KYC casino or Monero?

To be honest I don't really understand what you mean, because I don't know any casino or sportsbook working like that. When you use a Web3 casino you need to connect your wallet, and the funds you win are sent by the smart contracts back to the address you've used to send your funds first. I don't know any web3 decentralized casino allowing users to change the destination address of the smart contracts. So could you share an example if you know one of them? In addition why did you mention casinos and not exchanges without KYC or Dexs? They could do the same thing as that if it is possible.

[_act_]

You know exchanges are like mixers

Wait for a moment, I am being confused here.. but didn't find this in his post to also place same ban on exchange, did he?

Exchanges are not mixers, what I was just saying is that if you send money to an exchange, you can use it to block the trace from some people like scammers and hackers as the exchange will send the coin from another address (not the exchange address that you send the coin to) if you want to move the coin out of the exchange to another address, unlike sending it directly onchain.

Just like this:

You send coin to address 1 on an exchange
If you want to withdraw your coin, the exchange will send your coin to the address you provided, not from address 1 but from a different address.

[Crypto Library]

What do you think will be the next option for Bitcoin mixers, is it no KYC casino or Monero?

I don't think so that what mixer's are actually does that the non-KYC casinos can do.Because the purpose of the two is different, Mixer works to strengthen privacy by making it hard to track transactions, while non-KYC casinos protect privacy but its main purpose is to allow gamblers to hide their identity and gamble freely. So where a person needs to maintain his privacy why should he go to a casino to gamble when there are several other avenues already open?
In this case, what you can do for only privacy maintaining without doing gamble-

You can also be converting bitcoin to monero and back to bitcoin on decentralized exchanges.

here you can also follow this---

Theymos created this topic in 2019: [Guide] Decent mixing methods.

[Zaguru12]

What I understand is that it is easy to convert Bitcoin into other altcoin-based Bitcoin and then what will happen? Will theymos again ban them? I have other options to hide my Bitcoin identity such as I can convert my Bitcoin to XMR and then it won't be easy to trace it.

I don’t think conversion of bitcoin to altcoin are prohibited or rather on the ban list, because that is basically what exchanges do. But the act of converting to altcoin and then back to bitcoin is what will be ban.
Here is theymos response about this

That's allowed unless the site is also a mixer due to eg. allowing BTC->BTC "exchanges" or advertising BTC->XMR->BTC exchanges as a way of mixing coins.

[nakamura12]

You can really tell the difference between the two. Casino is casino although it can be used to deposit Bitcoin and then withdraw the BTC. As explained in post by _act_ where the Bitcoin you are going to receive isn't the coin from the address that you have sent the Bitcoin. I already know this since I have done it myself when I was gambling and I was kind of curious so, I did checked the address I have sent the Bitcoin and I see it in there but not the Bitcoin I received since it is from another address. Mixers are a service if you put it that way where you won't receive Bitcoin from the same address where you have sent it and there's no games in there but only the mixing service alone.

[FatFork]

A no-KYC casino isn't really an alternative to a mixer.  They both provide some privacy, but work differently and  mixers are specifically designed to obfuscate where your bitcoin comes from.  Exchanges and casinos don't do that.  They're made for trading and gambling, not anonymizing coin history like mixers. So, for example, you can literally get your own coins back when you make a withdrawal from a casino or exchange.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I don’t think conversion of bitcoin to altcoin are prohibited or rather on the ban list, because that is basically what exchanges do. But the act of converting to altcoin and then back to bitcoin is what will be ban.

That is still confusing. Okay, so I'm forbidden from advertising a site in which you're allowed to mix bitcoin through atomic swaps, but it's totally fine to advertise a service which converts your bitcoin to XMR as long as you can't convert it back to bitcoin within the service?

And BTW, does there even exist a service which allows you to exchange bitcoin with altcoin but not the other way around?

So, for example, you can literally get your own coins back when you make a withdrawal from a casino or exchange.

Or you can get entirely different coins, therefore have them mixed.

[Myleschetty]

After the 1st of January, all Bitcoin Mixers would be banned from the forum, that is what I understand after reading theymos topic. My question is for everyone! Consider a casino platform that does not want its users to go through KYC.

The idea of BTC mixer to be blamed for this forum is made in other prevent this forum from being seen as a dark net because every mixer that hard issue with the Fed in the area of money laundering should be associated with this forum.
About the casino that didn't require KYC as an option for mixing coins won't last forever and for the record, most casinos also change their KYC policy at some point to prevent them from being penalized by the government after their casino is used for money laundering.

They have a smart contract that directly forms a bridge to wallets on either the Ethereum blockchain or the Binance chain. They use the same technique as a Bitcoin mixer wherein they convert deposited Bitcoin to what we know as Wrapped Bitcoin on either of these two or other blockchains, isn't that a mixer when you withdraw the deposit amount to your chosen wallet?  

Have you tried that yourself?
Once you deposit a certain fund on a casino you'll have to wage a certain percentage of the fund before you'll be able to withdraw it.

I understand that it is not possible to deposit Bitcoin on a smart contract-based non-kyc casino. What I understand is that it is easy to convert Bitcoin into other altcoin-based Bitcoin and then what will happen? Will theymos again ban them?

No. Most casinos are already regulated and if casinos will be banned on this forum it will be those that are not regulated.

I have other options to hide my Bitcoin identity such as I can convert my Bitcoin to XMR and then it won't be easy to trace it.

What do you think will be the next option for Bitcoin mixers, is it no KYC casino or Monero?

I hope you understand that. BTC mixers are still functioning but will be banned next year on this forum.

[Stalker22]

Mixers promote the privacy aspect, while casinos do not. But there is a bigger question around what truly separates mixers from other common ways people try to obscure their coin trails? I guess this ban caught many off guard which suggests the boundaries and distinctions around privacy versus illegality remain blurry here.  Ultimately, we lack clarity on what crosses the line or why this particular practice went too far when plenty of other obfuscation techniques persist.  It seems an area of crypto desperately needing thoughtful guidelines that protect privacy without enabling crime.

[The Cryptovator]

You can't compare casinos with mixers. Both have completely different functionality, and the casino will not allow you to mix your coins. They will definitely freeze your account when they detect something like this. Its easier to do on a centralised exchange than at a casino. Those centralised exchanges don't require KYC; you can cut the transaction from there. But this isn't a proper way to mix your coins. However, people will find something when mixers are totally banned from the Internet.

[Coyster]

...and the casino will not allow you to mix your coins. They will definitely freeze your account when they detect something like this.

They don't have to "allow" you, you could basically deposit coins into a casino address, wager on a few games and withdraw whatever is left into a different address of yours, that will obfuscate your transaction. But the thing is, you could prolly still get your coins back because a casino never portrays themself as being a privacy tool, so they cannot make sure that doesn't happen.

However, people will find something when mixers are totally banned from the Internet.

I don't think mixers can be completely banned, but then again there is coinjoin which is a better privacy tool than mixers.

[Adbitco]

You know exchanges are like mixers

Wait for a moment, I am being confused here.. but didn't find this in his post to also place same ban on exchange, did he?

Exchanges are not mixers, what I was just saying is that if you send money to an exchange, you can use it to block the trace from some people like scammers and hackers as the exchange will send the coin from another address (not the exchange address that you send the coin to) if you want to move the coin out of the exchange to another address, unlike sending it directly onchain.

Just like this:

You send coin to address 1 on an exchange
If you want to withdraw your coin, the exchange will send your coin to the address you provided, not from address 1 but from a different address.

I agreed, but for a centralized exchange if any trace and the address associated will be checked to know if they are kyc verified after that the receiver May likely get track to review his identity, I understand that every single associated with exchange can be tracked to know if they are fully verified and nothing much. There are lots of exchange that keeps asking for extra kyc details to provide sources of fund when they senses huge deposit or withdrawal.

[hatshepsut93]

This reasoning applies not only to casinos but any services that allow depositing and withdrawing Bitcoin. And the answer is that mixers employ their proprietary techniques and algorithms for shuffling coins to make it hard or impossible to untangle them and find which outputs match with which inputs, while services don't do that. So at a glance it may seem like services act as mixers, but it's easier to link incoming and outgoing transactions with them than with actual mixers.

[hd49728]

My question is for everyone! Consider a casino platform that does not want its users to go through KYC.

Many casinos require KYC on their users and very few don't require KYC.

They have a smart contract that directly forms a bridge to wallets on either the Ethereum blockchain or the Binance chain.

It is only for casinos that are web3 casinos or hybrid between traditional casinos (without web3 wallet integration) and web3 casinos.

They use the same technique as a Bitcoin mixer wherein they convert deposited Bitcoin to what we know as Wrapped Bitcoin on either of these two or other blockchains, isn't that a mixer when you withdraw the deposit amount to your chosen wallet?  

When you move cross chains, you will have to use cryptocurrency bridges that are sensitive to hacks and there are many big hacks on cryptocurrency bridges. One of biggest and most famous cryptocurrency bridges, Multichain had to shut down their service after a massive exploitation.

Wrapped Bitcoin is not Bitcoin, it is a token and the token can have no value at all if peg can not be maintained.