Data Harvesting Inside Ledger Live App - Is this really part of Non-custodial?

[Lucius]

@Pmalek, I can agree that smartphones are not the best choice for airgapped wallets, but people still change smartphones more than personal computers, so I believe that a lot of people have an old smartphone that is useless. For those who have no other choice for "safe" storage, an old smartphone will certainly make more sense than any hot wallet.

I assume that if Wi-Fi is disabled, and if there is no SIM card in the device, the device cannot connect to the Internet, and Bluetooth and NFC should also be disabled. Also, such a device should be reset to factory settings and always be in Airplane mode.

[joniboini]

There is no way to remove all antennas and connectivity chips and sensors like you can on a desktop system.

Do we need to go that far though? Is there a case where a phone still sends data even after airplane mode is active, etc as mentioned above? What about using those called privacy OS like Graphene before we install a wallet on it? It sounds really weird tbh, unlocking and flashing your phone likely requires unlocking your firmware to install a crypto wallet, which will likely increase the risk of getting attacked with malware. I guess you don't need to think about that if you can guarantee you never connect your phone to the internet/other devices at all. At the very least, it should be better than using Ledger Live.

[Pmalek]

@Pmalek, I can agree that smartphones are not the best choice for airgapped wallets, but people still change smartphones more than personal computers, so I believe that a lot of people have an old smartphone that is useless.

Many old smartphones do become useless to the point you can't even turn them on. They break much easier and malfunction. One of my older phones that I used in the past, now doesn't turn on any more. I wanted to give it to my parents who don't need anything state of the art. The phone was ok last time I used it. Now, there is only a white screen after which the device turns off.

[Lucius]

~snip~

Unfortunately, nothing lasts forever, and everything depends on how the device is used and how it is stored afterwards. I managed to save an old smartphone by flashing it with new firmware, I didn't even need any special cables or software, I did everything with the help of a memory card on which I put the firmware and then managed to do everything from the phone.

You've probably tried something to fix it, and in any case, search the term "white screen smartphone" and you'll find a lot of tips on how to try to fix it.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Is there a case where a phone still sends data even after airplane mode is active, etc as mentioned above?

Yes. The NSA have admitted they can easily track phones, even with all connectivity disabled and airplane mode turned on:

Even turning off a device’s cellular service, such as when it’s in Airplane Mode, does not totally protect someone from having their location pinpointed, the NSA warned.

“Inconspicuous equipment (e.g., wireless sniffers) can determine signal strength and calculate location, even when the user is not actively using the wireless services,” according to the advisory. “Even if all wireless radios are disabled, numerous sensors on the device provide sufficient data to calculate location.”

Most phones these days are quite happy to allow WiFi and Bluetooth to be activated even when airplane mode is turned on, since you are now allowed to use these things in most aircraft. Further, it is almost impossible for the average person to actually verify that their phone is not transmitting information via some method. The only way to be certain that your airgap is effective is to use a device which does not have the capabilities to transmit data in the first place. This almost always means an old computer or a SBC without a WiFi card, Bluetooth module, etc.