Signature Campaigns in the Service Board

[shield132]

I think there is nothing wrong with moving on altcoins for a while because Ordinals aren't going to give up and as it seems they are getting more popular. This will only result in increased transaction fees and fees are so high that it is no different from income tax rates. Manager pays a lot to send Bitcoins, participants pay a lot to send Bitcoins or to exchange them. Bitcoin payment is financial lose for everyone today.
I think that before fees go down, we should move on to altcoin payments (for example Litecoin) but all campaigns must be left on Bitcoin Service board.

[1714281254]

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[1714281254]

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[Saisher]

I think there is nothing wrong with moving on altcoins for a while because Ordinals aren't going to give up and as it seems they are getting more popular. This will only result in increased transaction fees and fees are so high that it is no different from income tax rates. Manager pays a lot to send Bitcoins, participants pay a lot to send Bitcoins or to exchange them. Bitcoin payment is financial lose for everyone today.
I think that before fees go down, we should move on to altcoin payments (for example Litecoin) but all campaigns must be left on Bitcoin Service board.

I agree many managers are hurting by the transaction fees I don't think this issue will last, many developers will find a way to resolve this issue, this is harming merchants that accept Bitcoin and other platforms as well, we cannot go on like this for many months some managers deduct their participants with the transaction which is ok but imagine the fee that could be saved if it's USDT, Matic or Dogecoin, I hope the admins will grant the wish of many that they allow the thread to remain the Bitcoin service section will accepting altcoins, I don't think this ordinal issue will last long, I have to save my earnings in my wallet for a month before I can send it to our local exchange to trade because the fee will eat up my one-week earnings.

[bluefirecorp_]

Just put a lower fee and have your workers wait for the mempool to clear. Perhaps consider queuing and batching withdraw requests too.

It's not that complex to solve this problem.

Using alt-coin payments in a service for bitcoin would be confusing to say the least.

[NotATether]

I believe that crypto-currencies like Lite Coin, Monero, Doge Coin, Tron, or some stable coins can be used as an alternative method of payment in such times. LN is out of question for almost everyone and that's why I won't mention it but it's also a good choice in such times.

Why is it out of the question? In fact there has never been a better time to use LN.

Right now, you can download a mobile app that will give you a Lightning wallet complete with channels and I believe even a Lightning address, or in the case of desktop you can lease a Lightning Node and then use it via a frontend like LNbits.

None of the altcoins you mentioned are particularly stable, and finding a wallet for each has their own can of worms not to mention exchanging them for Bitcoin later.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Why is it out of the question? In fact there has never been a better time to use LN.

It has never been a better time, but remember that it still is for micro-payments. Weekly payouts can be up to thousands of dollars worth of bitcoin. Plus, there are the economic problems of sending a new invoice every week, needed to be online to receive payment. Then, it is the other transaction fees. I'm pretty sure moving thousands via lightning is neither attractive, maybe worse than on-chain.

Would it violate any rules to opt for payment in altcoin from whoever requests it? I prefer receiving payment in XMR to facilitate the process for myself, my manager and the promoted service. However, I don't want to impose the choice of receiving payouts in XMR on the other participants.

[criptoevangelista]

Wouldn't it be better to make payments every 15 days? or 20 in 20 days?

It might be interesting to change the payment method to a longer term and continue keeping the payment in BTC... or use LN and offer benefits, such as a slightly better payment, even if it is a temporary solution

[OgNasty]

If Bitcoin network fees get higher than shipping costs, it would make sense to start giving participants physical goods for their signature campaign participation. I think it would be cool and probably help cut down on abuse if people had to give their mailing address to be a part of the campaign. Maybe try shipping some silver?

[Eternad]

If Bitcoin network fees get higher than shipping costs, it would make sense to start giving participants physical goods for their signature campaign participation. I think it would be cool and probably help cut down on abuse if people had to give their mailing address to be a part of the campaign. Maybe try shipping some silver?

I doubt that giving mailing address is a viable solution to stop abuse because anyone can use drop shipping services or their relatives address to receive the package for them. Using altcoins is still more convenient solution rather than using a physical rewards that will take more days or months to receive depending on the type of courier the sender will use.

Services on Bitcoin or Altcoin doesn’t matter anymore because campaign participants will surely always follow the campaign whatever the location. Even bounty section on altcoins is once become popular when bounty campaign pays high during the 2017 hype.

[criptoevangelista]

If Bitcoin network fees get higher than shipping costs, it would make sense to start giving participants physical goods for their signature campaign participation. I think it would be cool and probably help cut down on abuse if people had to give their mailing address to be a part of the campaign. Maybe try shipping some silver?

This would only be viable if the campaigns were limited to users from a certain country, in this case we have people from all over the world in subscription campaigns...

I also think there are a lot of people here who prefer to remain completely anonymous.

[sokani]

As the saying goes desperate times calls for desperate measures. The Bitcoin high transaction is really crazy, and I don't see anything wrong with you trying to pay your participants with altcoins while still running your campaigns on the service board. Although some persons might kick against it but this is just a temporary solution and there's no need to move the thread to the altcoin board. The moment transaction fee returns back to normal, you'll revert to Bitcoin.

[FinePoine0]

Usually after a small increase in the price of Bitcoin, Bitcoin transaction fees have increased so much that it is almost impossible to transact. Still have Mempool 200+ Plus. Companies also have trouble transacting here, as Bitcoin transactions do not attract high-fee users.

[Poker Player]

If Bitcoin network fees get higher than shipping costs, it would make sense to start giving participants physical goods for their signature campaign participation. I think it would be cool and probably help cut down on abuse if people had to give their mailing address to be a part of the campaign. Maybe try shipping some silver?

I doubt that giving mailing address is a viable solution to stop abuse because anyone can use drop shipping services or their relatives address to receive the package for them. Using altcoins is still more convenient solution rather than using a physical rewards that will take more days or months to receive depending on the type of courier the sender will use.

This would only be viable if the campaigns were limited to users from a certain country, in this case we have people from all over the world in subscription campaigns...

I also think there are a lot of people here who prefer to remain completely anonymous.

I doubt if OgNasty was drunk or joking when he said this, but in view of his habit of commenting in threads and not coming back to respond to what is questioned about his comments in them I doubt we will ever know.

Do you mean OgNasty that you want Stake.com, which is banned in the US, to send you campaign payments by snail mail to Arizona?

[NotATether]

Do you mean OgNasty that you want Stake.com, which is banned in the US, to send you campaign payments by snail mail to Arizona?

Unrelated but I hear that Stake have a US operation in stake.us, not sure if that entity is also banned though.

[Z-tight]

Usually after a small increase in the price of Bitcoin, Bitcoin transaction fees have increased so much that it is almost impossible to transact. Still have Mempool 200+ Plus. Companies also have trouble transacting here, as Bitcoin transactions do not attract high-fee users.

This is not totally true, a small increase in the price of BTC doesn't always create a congestion in the network. For example the current high fee rate is not caused by BTC price movement, but by the people who are making ordinal transactions and taking up block space, so if you want a space in a block, you have to pay a high fee and outbid other users.

There are over 350,000 unconfirmed tx's in the network right now, and fee rate for high priority tx's is ~ 90 sat/vByte as i type this.

[OgNasty]

If Bitcoin network fees get higher than shipping costs, it would make sense to start giving participants physical goods for their signature campaign participation. I think it would be cool and probably help cut down on abuse if people had to give their mailing address to be a part of the campaign. Maybe try shipping some silver?

I doubt that giving mailing address is a viable solution to stop abuse because anyone can use drop shipping services or their relatives address to receive the package for them. Using altcoins is still more convenient solution rather than using a physical rewards that will take more days or months to receive depending on the type of courier the sender will use.

This would only be viable if the campaigns were limited to users from a certain country, in this case we have people from all over the world in subscription campaigns...

I also think there are a lot of people here who prefer to remain completely anonymous.

I doubt if OgNasty was drunk or joking when he said this, but in view of his habit of commenting in threads and not coming back to respond to what is questioned about his comments in them I doubt we will ever know.

Do you mean OgNasty that you want Stake.com, which is banned in the US, to send you campaign payments by snail mail to Arizona?

No.  Stake doesn't have any issues with sending out distributions.  I also don't drink alcohol more than a couple times a year and when I do it's usually on vacation somewhere, not to post on the internet. 

I get that people want to remain anonymous and sending things overseas is costly.  Still cheaper than tx fees at times.  It was just a fun idea as back in 2012 I actually had discussions with a mining pool operator about the possibility of me shipping silver to their miners instead of paying them out BTC for mining rewards.  It would be cool to see something like that finally implemented in some fashion after all these years.

[Mr.right85]

Rather than the whole mod team and admin focusing on where this topic goes they should channel their energy to try and pressure a change so the damn network works, that before the whole marketplace will look like Tron or Tether market!

I think the whole framework to the issue with the network congestion and high fee revolves about this pivot of bringing to the consciousness of miners what this fee is doing to the whole system.
I can't say it's crumbling under low fees but, it was the case that pushed other projects to be built on networks like Ethereum and the we had a shift to other altcoins. The search for low fees.

One thing is for sure though, with high fee causing a shift in the system, it makes it something worth looking at.
While I may not have to support the payment of altcoins for signature campaigns is simply due to the other of things on the forum. It might be temporal but, isn't any less disruptive of the other of things. We might as well see bounty campaigns coming over to get a bit of the service board.

I really wonder how Hhampuz and the rest of the managers who continues to pay in BTC does it and you guys are really championing this time.

[bluefirecorp_]

If Bitcoin network fees get higher than shipping costs, it would make sense to start giving participants physical goods for their signature campaign participation. I think it would be cool and probably help cut down on abuse if people had to give their mailing address to be a part of the campaign. Maybe try shipping some silver?

Why not just send them physical bitcoin wallets? Order some bitcoin cheques from a 3rd party. Load them with cash using low-fee transactions [just put the lowest fee over and over until it goes through to preload a bunch of cheques]. Make payout amounts for people to work toward and then mail them that many checks.

It's almost like cash, but not?

Oh wait, you could just send them the private keys to accounts loaded with funds instead of transferring them via mail...

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

With this latest change, in a good way, of Bitcoin mempools, it is possible for campaign managers to proceed campaign payments with more feasible fee rates like 25 to 30 sat/vbyte.

Ordinals seem to cool down and I don't know when they will come back but probably won't too soon. With coming returns of campaigns back to Bitcoin, I think this discussion can be temporarily closed, before mempools congested with very expensive fee rates again and campaigns make some fluctuative payment methods again.

https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#BTC%20(default%20mempool),2d,weight

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

With this latest change, in a good way, of Bitcoin mempools, it is possible for campaign managers to proceed campaign payments with more feasible fee rates like 25 to 30 sat/vbyte.

Ordinals seem to cool down and I don't know when they will come back but probably won't too soon. With coming returns of campaigns back to Bitcoin, I think this discussion can be temporarily closed, before mempools congested with very expensive fee rates again and campaigns make some fluctuative payment methods again.

https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#BTC%20(default%20mempool),2d,weight

To get the next block right now you need 60+ sat/vbyte. It still very expensive. Consider a transaction with a few input and a few outputs, you will need to spend over $20 for the transaction.

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

To get the next block right now you need 60+ sat/vbyte. It still very expensive. Consider a transaction with a few input and a few outputs, you will need to spend over $20 for the transaction.

I see but it is for very hurry transaction when need to be a tip of mempool. It is cheaper if waiting time is for like 1 hour or a few hours. I know even with fee rate like 50 or 40 sat/vbyte, it is still expensive and I miss times with fee rate like 1 to 3 sat/vbyte too.

However, it is cheaper than in December and managers, companies can afford to spend that fee and campaign participants can support to wait a few hours for a first confirmation. With risk of Ordinals return, managers can use RBF to bump fee later.