High transaction fees affects buyers and seller in payment in bitcoin

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Is it that the higher we see Bitcoin price the higher the fee? Because I noticed that ever since Bitcoin price hit $30-40k the fees has never been the same, who's to blame for this current issue and what seems to be the solution?

I'm going to scan the rest of this thread to see if there's a solid answer to that, as I've been wondering about the cause ever since the first time I saw the network super-congested with fees sky-high.  I've always chalked it up to high volume during times of price volatility, like during bull markets with severe dips and such.  Usually fees don't jump to the roof when the price falls (though I could be mistaken on that), so I'm puzzled.

But either way I'm so fakkin' tired of this shit.  You can't send $25 worth of bitcoin without paying nearly half of that in network fees in order to get your transaction confirmed in a reasonable amount of time.  It's crazy.

[adaseb]

I rarely do any p2p bitcoin transactions now a days but if I did it wouldn’t be on the bitcoin network. And the fees are only half the problem. The other half is the wait time.

I remember years ago, doing some p2p meet and I think it took 1.5 hours for the block to confirm. And this was when blocks were empty, basically default fee was like 10000 sats which was a few Pennies back then.

If you do p2P you need it cheap and quick. Best is Ethereum with a stable coin of some sort like USDT.

[Gormicsta]

Is it that the higher we see Bitcoin price the higher the fee? Because I noticed that ever since Bitcoin price hit $30-40k the fees has never been the same, who's to blame for this current issue and what seems to be the solution?

I'm going to scan the rest of this thread to see if there's a solid answer to that, as I've been wondering about the cause ever since the first time I saw the network super-congested with fees sky-high.  I've always chalked it up to high volume during times of price volatility, like during bull markets with severe dips and such.  Usually fees don't jump to the roof when the price falls (though I could be mistaken on that), so I'm puzzled.

But either way I'm so fakkin' tired of this shit.  You can't send $25 worth of bitcoin without paying nearly half of that in network fees in order to get your transaction confirmed in a reasonable amount of time.  It's crazy.

There are several causes for this, but the growing acceptance and usage of Bitcoin is one of the primary ones. I think it wouldn't be incorrect to state that the higher the price of Bitcoin, the higher the fee because as more people troop into the Network and utilize the it, the demand for transactions rises and so do the fees. It's more appropriate to point the finger at the structure of the Bitcoin network than at any one person or organization. Though there have been some suggestions for remedies, such as the Lightning Network and others but the problem still persists.

[Sexylizzy2813]

Is it that the higher we see Bitcoin price the higher the fee? Because I noticed that ever since Bitcoin price hit $30-40k the fees has never been the same, who's to blame for this current issue and what seems to be the solution?

I'm going to scan the rest of this thread to see if there's a solid answer to that, as I've been wondering about the cause ever since the first time I saw the network super-congested with fees sky-high.  I've always chalked it up to high volume during times of price volatility, like during bull markets with severe dips and such.  Usually fees don't jump to the roof when the price falls (though I could be mistaken on that), so I'm puzzled.

But either way I'm so fakkin' tired of this shit.  You can't send $25 worth of bitcoin without paying nearly half of that in network fees in order to get your transaction confirmed in a reasonable amount of time.  It's crazy.

Do you think there's an answer to this high rate of fee?
I don't think there's an answer but let's say there is an answer to all these issues going on, the question is how can we make it to be in place like to favor us, like before?
Like before if you want to send $100 the fee won't be that disturbing but now is like you have to even owe whosoever is collecting the fee. Is this how we're going to end 2023, with complains that have no solution? I wish it will end this year...

[mk4]

Why using stable coins when you can also use fiat? Stable coins are just tokenized fiat and they are risky than fiat because they are pegged. I will prefer to have other coins like litecoin, litecoin or tron itself and other coins like bitcoin when talking something about bitcoin.

Because not everyone has access to half-decent payment rails and not everyone can stomach the volatility? As for depegs, we're talking about payments here not long-term holdings so risks of depegs at the short timespan where you need the stables are very low.

Even when talking about holdings — the currencies of some countries are pretty shite and very inflationary. And if you can't afford volatility, it's not bad to hold USDT/USDC.

[rat03gopoh]

Usually fees don't jump to the roof when the price falls (though I could be mistaken on that), so I'm puzzled.

Price fluctuations don't directly affect fee fluctuations, you can compare the two in the bullish phase throughout 2021. When the 2nd price peak was reached (July to November), the fee rates was almost stagnant at $2 to $5 for 1 transaction.



And currently, coincidentally, the ordinals NFT hype is causing thousands of transactions faltered and increase each other's fees to get priority confirmation speed. Had that happened in bear season 5 years ago (2018), the fee rates would probably be as severe as they're today.

I don't think there's an answer but let's say there is an answer to all these issues going on, the question is how can we make it to be in place like to favor us, like before?

The answer: Obviously network congestion.
The solution: Obviously, overhaul the protocol somehow.
For the record, there is no perfect protocol (even up to date) that can answer some its network problems in the future. Improvements must continue to be made.

[Sexylizzy2813]

I don't think there's an answer but let's say there is an answer to all these issues going on, the question is how can we make it to be in place like to favor us, like before?

The answer: Obviously network congestion.
The solution: Obviously, overhaul the protocol somehow.
For the record, there is no perfect protocol (even up to date) that can answer some its network problems in the future. Improvements must continue to be made.

Hasn't this network congestion been there all these while? Or is it now that we're having a higher price of Bitcoin that's when it seems like is having effect on all transactions?
Is not really clear because is like whatsoever is deducting the fee at high rate is taking advantage of the fact that the price of BTC is high, it needs to benefit from traders and investors this period and I believe this is the first time is happening.

[Poker Player]

Do you think there's an answer to this high rate of fee?
I don't think there's an answer but let's say there is an answer to all these issues going on, the question is how can we make it to be in place like to favor us, like before?

The only solution at a personal level is not to make low-value transactions. In another thread a fellow forum member claims to have done a $50 transaction paying a $15 fee. That's crazy and if I'm going to have to pay that fee I'm not going to send any transaction under $200.

On the other hand, we can not know for sure but I think the fees have to end up moderating because at some point the fashion of paying high fees to fill the blockchain with spam will end.

[ultrloa]

We all know that Bitcoin is used for making payments. So, people who buy uses bitcoin to send payment and those who sell uses it to receive payment from anywhere in the word. But the situation of high transaction fees is affecting buyers and sellers. They are now looking for an alternative to make payment instead of using bitcoin. Another thing is that if transaction is made, sellers will have to wait for long to receive payment and no seller wants that kind of delay in his/her business.

Do you think there is a solution to this, or B2B and P2B, business that uses bitcoin should find another alternative to payment method instead of Bitcoin?

For those who are into business that make use of bitcoin, how do you harness this situation of high transaction fess to not affect your business and customers? So that others will learn from your tips.

Those people usually transact a few chunk of bitcoins are usually got affected with fees since usually we need to put up some high figures for each transaction even if we only transfer a few amount. But for high whales which is usually do high volume of transaction each transfer I guess they don't really care much about the fees since I can still see some people paying bitcoin even if the current situation is not good for everyone but they carry on those fee and just think about that its part of the growth of bitcoin.

Maybe if we don't like to pay such huge fees better to check best alternative coins to transfer since there are cheap transaction fee coins has been used by other people as their alternative currency if they want to transfer without paying any huge amount of money to make their transaction happen.

[rat03gopoh]

Hasn't this network congestion been there all these while? Or is it now that we're having a higher price of Bitcoin that's when it seems like is having effect on all transactions?

This is the first time, because there has never been another entity that "interferes" with the network like ordinals. Look at the transaction traffic chart throughout history, how do you see the big spike recently compared to the 2021's ATH session?: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactions.html#alltime
As I said before there is no direct correlation that high prices must result in high fee rates (in sats units). Network congestion can occur even if bitcoin is worth $1.

[Frankolala]

OP, bitcoin payment should be not be accepted and you should use other means of payment. It is either accept fiat currency and if you are not cool with it, you can use stable coins, because with it seems that with time stable coins will be used more of an alternative payment than bitcoin.
 
Businesses that are accepting bitcoin is finding it difficult to cope with it because your customers might not have the idea of LN and how it works. I hope that the fee comes back to normal because more BRC20 token will soon be created.

[lombok]

First, Bitcoin is an alternative payment, in fact there are many other alternative payments, such as using stablecoins or other altcoins. However, this depends on the type of business and the agreement between the owner and worker, user or buyer and seller. If both parties agree to continue using Bitcoin then they certainly don't have any problems regarding the problem of Bitcoin network congestion and Bitcoin transaction fees.

[Sexylizzy2813]

Do you think there's an answer to this high rate of fee?
I don't think there's an answer but let's say there is an answer to all these issues going on, the question is how can we make it to be in place like to favor us, like before?

The only solution at a personal level is not to make low-value transactions. In another thread a fellow forum member claims to have done a $50 transaction paying a $15 fee. That's crazy and if I'm going to have to pay that fee I'm not going to send any transaction under $200.

On the other hand, we can not know for sure but I think the fees have to end up moderating because at some point the fashion of paying high fees to fill the blockchain with spam will end.

Is really going to be hard for those of us that have little to send like you said someone sent $50k and I can imagine the fee being $11k or $19.9k. I was even thinking it would be more effective when you have something like $500k and the fee would be higher but that doesn't matter if you have to do a higher transaction or not. This system is going to make many traders and investors to make decisions they never planned on making.
It's better it comes to an end before the end of this week because many are seriously crying for this issue to be resolved or come back to normal and if that happens I feel it will be a nice way to start up the new year 2024.

[Mpamaegbu]

I remember years ago, doing some p2p meet and I think it took 1.5 hours for the block to confirm. And this was when blocks were empty, basically default fee was like 10000 sats which was a few Pennies back then.

Just imagine what that 10,000 sats you said was a few pennies then is worth now. So, invariably we're still paying below what they paid then. Isn't it? We aren't even paying up to ⅒ of that now, yet the value is crazy.

If you do p2P you need it cheap and quick. Best is Ethereum with a stable coin of some sort like USDT.

Did you say ETH? Moving ETH out is also not cheap. I rather stayed with stablecoins or LTC for such. They're very cheap to use.

[Dave1]

First, Bitcoin is an alternative payment, in fact there are many other alternative payments, such as using stablecoins or other altcoins. However, this depends on the type of business and the agreement between the owner and worker, user or buyer and seller. If both parties agree to continue using Bitcoin then they certainly don't have any problems regarding the problem of Bitcoin network congestion and Bitcoin transaction fees.

No, other altocoins or stablecoins are not build to be a payment scheme, it was only Bitcoin. However, when Bitcoin become a assets that is traded in an exchange, then I will say that it lost what it was originally design by Satoshi, because it become a store of value and hedge for those wealthy people.

And then there was a boom on other coins knows as alternative or altcoins market, but they have different design though and no one is like a payment system. But they can still function as one today if we look at them and with the high fees right now, we are looking for more alternatives to transact and it includes LTC.

[Sebas.tian]

Do you think there is a solution to this, or B2B and P2B, business that uses bitcoin should find another alternative to payment method instead of Bitcoin?

There will be solution soon to help the investors to remain in Bitcoin, because Bitcoin has gone round the whole world to make Bitcoin to become the king among other cryptocurrencies which the fee need to be low for buyers and sellers to continue using Bitcoin for their transaction. Since Bitcoin users have the right to choose any coin of their choice to carry out their transaction, and if the gas fee still remain high the way it is now in the market, I think many investors will look for alternative to embrace stablecoins and their gas fee will be lower than Bitcoin currently.

[bitzizzix]

It's best to temporarily not make transactions using Bitcoin if fees are a complaint, because there is no solution other than waiting for transaction fees to return to normal or using stablecoins, Litecoin, or other coins that you think have very low fees.
And indeed the problem of high Bitcoin fees is a complaint for those who use Bitcoin payments or who want to convert to fiat in small amounts, and it is really frustrating. Because small amount transaction fees will cost almost half, and this is a problem especially for small amount transactions. So for now the solution is only to use fiat, stablecoins or other coins, or not make transactions until Bitcoin transaction fees return to normal.

[Sexylizzy2813]

Hasn't this network congestion been there all these while? Or is it now that we're having a higher price of Bitcoin that's when it seems like is having effect on all transactions?

This is the first time, because there has never been another entity that "interferes" with the network like ordinals. Look at the transaction traffic chart throughout history, how do you see the big spike recently compared to the 2021's ATH session?: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-transactions.html#alltime
As I said before there is no direct correlation that high prices must result in high fee rates (in sats units). Network congestion can occur even if bitcoin is worth $1.

If this is the first time is happening don't you think it will become a nom like it has come to stay and we might even be having a time to expect it to happen just like we're expecting the halving.
This issue is never a thing we say it will go, we need something more helpful to let us know that this is when it will end and will never happen again, because as it is I don't see anything tats stopping it from continuing.
So if BTC reaches $100k the fee will be half of what you're sending if care is not taken, is really disturbing honestly.

[bitgolden]

If this is the first time is happening don't you think it will become a nom like it has come to stay and we might even be having a time to expect it to happen just like we're expecting the halving.
This issue is never a thing we say it will go, we need something more helpful to let us know that this is when it will end and will never happen again, because as it is I don't see anything tats stopping it from continuing.
So if BTC reaches $100k the fee will be half of what you're sending if care is not taken, is really disturbing honestly.

That is true, nobody really thinks that it will go away, everyone knows that it's here to stay and that's the biggest problem. I believe that we are going to end up with some trouble that would not be simple to get rid of, and that's the main issue. I get that it's not going to end up with anything crazy, but we should consider that we are going to end up with something that will change for the long term.

If we could pressure the developers to figure out a way, eventually someone will find a way. I personally believe that the best thing we could do regarding bitcoin fee's right now would be just not to use them, unless you absolutely have to, focus on something else, use something else, and that would drop the fee rate for sure when the usage drops.

[GeorgeJohn]

Some people are still using bitcoin even as the transaction fee is high. If they can not use bitcoin network fee or payment, they can use lightning network. If they can not use any of the two, let them use altcoin like litecoin for payment because the fee is very low.

High fee can not deprived buyers and sellers not to do their business, its obvious that buyers of bitcoin have their own alternative, we should ask ourselves that numerous of people who exchange their bitcoin with one exchange to the other, does it mean that its only exchange that make the payment all alone or theirs other people or buyers who buy bitcoin on their own, let the truth should be told, if you are interested to accumulate a bitcoin future, its obvious that the High fee of bitcoin can not deprived you not to buy bitcoin for your investment