Fees are high - a problem? Not for everyone!

[Oshosondy]

Of course there is an alternative, but how many people even know what Lightning Network is and how to use it, even on this forum? In addition, in order to use LN you have to open a channel, and to do that you have to pay an on-chain fee, which is again a problem when the fees increase significantly. What will happen if someone comes up with a way to make LN transactions disadvantageous in any way - the new LN?

Lightning network is online. It is good for small amount of money. So why need to open a channel? You can use some wallets that have a channel for you. All you will need to do is to download the wallet, open the wallet and do backups and start using lightning network without opening any channel. In addition, those wallets that have their own channels are very easy to use. They are even the ones that make lightning network adoption to be increasing.

[1714777736]

1714777736

[1714777736]

1714777736

[1714777736]

1714777736

[348Judah]

Miners certainly benefit from what I personally call "ordinal madness", and suffice it to say that in recent days the rewards per block amounted to over 10 BTC, and considering that the reward without fees is 6.25 BTC, it is clear how much their profit has increased. Without going into any conspiracy theories, isn't it logical to think that some of them (miners) have their fingers in all of this? Who knows, maybe we'll find out one day.

I also believe this that it's the miners who were the first beneficiary of this experience we are all having with high transaction fee, but we can also take a look of it from this angle, this wasn't what they already planned for or knew coming base on my personal understanding, the block size was increase to allow for more capacity that can contain more Bitcoin transaction thereby leaving the mempool less congested before the realization of the other use case of this same space.

But on ordinals inscriptions and miners took advantage of the whole thing to make their own income from it, which if we were also in such possible could possibly do the same by accepting what pays higher as our first priority before considering others.

[Lucius]

Lightning network is online. It is good for small amount of money. So why need to open a channel? You can use some wallets that have a channel for you. All you will need to do is to download the wallet, open the wallet and do backups and start using lightning network without opening any channel. In addition, those wallets that have their own channels are very easy to use. They are even the ones that make lightning network adoption to be increasing.

It's strange how you didn't think of that ten days ago when you were giving advice to a friend, because it would help him a lot to save on fees every time he makes the new transaction. Maybe in the future, everyone who has a complaint about fees should forget about complaints (especially public ones) and simply start using LN? When the matter is already so simple, why at least twenty topics on the subject of high fees?

[cyberninja2]

It's strange how you didn't think of that ten days ago when you were giving advice to a friend, because it would help him a lot to save on fees every time he makes the new transaction. Maybe in the future, everyone who has a complaint about fees should forget about complaints (especially public ones) and simply start using LN? When the matter is already so simple, why at least twenty topics on the subject of high fees?

It's strange because we often think it's a small thing for us to teach other people in the remaining months, even though the complaint for those who want to learn how to struggle or perform in the future has to be what they don't know before they take a step.

so they keep complaining about several topics that they may not have discussed in the previous discussion.

[pinggoki]

I miss the days when I didn't need to worry about BTC TX fees. Ordinals changed everything last year in a bad way which sent BTC back to the dark ages where we had to worry about congestion and other annoying issues.

BTC fails hard as a payment method due to these issues which is why it isn't capable of replacing FIAT, but is an amazing asset to trade as an investor.

It's a madness and a bad thing that this is happening to bitcoin right now and there doesn't seem to be any signs that it's going to stop being like this anytime soon. I wanted to sell a part of my long-term stash because I wanted to celebrate the Christmas holiday and New Years with at least a decent food and gifts for the family but in the end I had to do some cuts on my other altcoin because I just can't think that there's a way that I can justify why I would spend $20+ worth of bitcoin for the transaction fees, it's just not for me and I was fortunate I was still able to whip out something during the holidays but to be honest, I don't think that I can stand it anymore that we are shouldering the burden of this so-called "ordinal madness" hopefully though we get to see something different this year. Totally agree that it fails as a payment method but it's probably a temporary thing so the best we can do is be patient.

[Julien_Olynpic]

I know a category of holders who paradoxically rejoice at high commissions. It's surprising, but it's true. They say that high commissions are an indicator of the network’s demand. And it's really hard to argue with that. Currently, we do not see a sufficiently reliable solution to this problem. Even the Lightning Network does not solve this problem satisfactorily enough. After all, you have to pay to open a channel. Basically, you also have to pay to close the channel if you want to get the locked bitcoins out of the channel. Therefore, Bitcoin without altcoins is not viable.

[stompix]

Of course there is an alternative, but how many people even know what Lightning Network is and how to use it, even on this forum? In addition, in order to use LN you have to open a channel, and to do that you have to pay an on-chain fee, which is again a problem when the fees increase significantly. What will happen if someone comes up with a way to make LN transactions disadvantageous in any way - the new LN?

Lightning network is online. It is good for small amount of money. So why need to open a channel? You can use some wallets that have a channel for you. All you will need to do is to download the wallet, open the wallet and do backups and start using lightning network without opening any channel.

So you're saying that there is a wallet in which you have total control of the seeds, in which you don't need to open a LN channel and you don't need to move funds to the wallet owners address and still works?

Please do tell more!

~

It's strange how you didn't think of that ten days ago when you were giving advice to a friend, because it would help him a lot to save on fees every time he makes the new transaction. Maybe in the future, everyone who has a complaint about fees should forget about complaints (especially public ones) and simply start using LN? When the matter is already so simple, why at least twenty topics on the subject of high fees?

I love that everyone says just use LN, use LN, but if we would be able to go around with a lie detector and ask if they have used LN in the last 30 days we will see that there is a lot of empty untested regurgitated advice in all those lines.

No reason to think people can't use bitcoin as a means of payment in the future cuz of fees, because nobody is going to be paying mining fees to make payments because that is not what the base chain is for.

You can't use LN without the main chain!
As long as you don't lock (or whatever word suits the action better) your coins from the main net you won't be able to use it, simple as that.
Second, I'm really curious how this will work when miners will not get a single cent in fee, but I can picture it already, some scrap diver collecting 100-200 old miners from the dumpster will be able to not 51 but 99% the chain for a few months if he wishes.

[Lucius]

I love that everyone says just use LN, use LN, but if we would be able to go around with a lie detector and ask if they have used LN in the last 30 days we will see that there is a lot of empty untested regurgitated advice in all those lines.

I have to admit that I once tried to test LN and did not go further than that, because most of the services and payments I used with Bitcoin did not support that option. There is definitely a lot of repetition of what the members read, but they are far from understanding what they are actually writing about.

~snip~
Second, I'm really curious how this will work when miners will not get a single cent in fee, but I can picture it already, some scrap diver collecting 100-200 old miners from the dumpster will be able to not 51 but 99% the chain for a few months if he wishes.

That would certainly be a big problem because miners are certainly not in that "business" because they believe in Bitcoin, but they are interested in profit. We can assume that with the reduction of rewards per block, there will be fewer and fewer people who will mine, and in some 6+ years, when only 1% (210 000) BTC remains, I don't see how mining will be profitable anymore if there is no significant increase in fees. All solutions that go in the direction of LN or something similar are only part of the solution, and without miners and POW Bitcoin would not be what it is today.