EarnOnVictor
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January 03, 2024, 06:26:12 PM |
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It was like a film trick to me when I saw the value of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies some hours ago, this was heartbreaking. Nonetheless, I expected anything in the market at any time, only that it can't be so exciting to see one's assets plummeting in value, that is disheartening especially when it happens so fast.
I, nevertheless, did my best to search for the reason for the sudden sharp movement and I saw nothing satisfactory, or should I say specific about the situation. Many would say this and others would say another. However, most people were referring to the popular discouragement about the ETF as if the SEC would reject it, which tallies with my concern about this persistent rejection belief even before it happened.
This was what I believe sent the shockwave into the market, but thankfully, the effect has subsided. But it is possible that we are not out of the woods yet, I know how the market works, and if today's candlesticks across the market boards are not sent back to be positive, it might be an issue that could result in further bearish patterns and might last longer than anticipated.
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Marvelman
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January 03, 2024, 06:29:28 PM |
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The way I see it, the latest drop in price had a lot to do with some doubtful rumors being spread around by one of those analysis company. It's possible they were even trying to move the market for their own gain. Fortunately it looks like traders are wising up to the tactic and prices seem to be bouncing back up again.
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yudi09
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January 03, 2024, 06:34:22 PM |
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Many claim that this is the Jim Cramer effect, which makes the market experience an unexpected decline, even myself this feels impossible and cannot be understood why there is a decline, is it because of Jim's posts that cannot be explained by logic. Is there someone who can explain this so that what is happening can enter my logic and not believe in things that do not make sense? There is also a lot of speculation that this is confirmation that bitcoin ETF applications will be rejected again? But isn't it time to add more Bitcoin, as the price is at a considerable discount tonight? ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif) The Bitcoin price correction that occurred within hours was caused by news related to the SEC's decision to reject the Bitcoin ETF. The candle chart will rise again because this is not a big panic. When the sudden decline occurred because the price of Bitcoin on January 2 almost touched the $46k price level, traders must have been surprised because a sharp downward correction occurred in a short time so that almost all traded coins appeared in the red. I was also surprised when I visited the market and saw red from the top to the bottom 10 coins that I bookmarked.
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electronicash
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January 03, 2024, 06:40:49 PM |
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Jim Cramer they say has the information since he is close to someone from the SEC. i don't know how true this is but maybe he just wants to buy more before the approval so it must be worth it despite being hated by many.
couldn't believe it dived down to $40,800. that's steep. i you have set a buy order at such price i guess you already have profited after the bounce. this is unexpected and only those rich guys did have the opportunity.
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khiholangkang
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January 04, 2024, 11:07:03 AM |
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The way I see it, the latest drop in price had a lot to do with some doubtful rumors being spread around by one of those analysis company. It's possible they were even trying to move the market for their own gain. Fortunately it looks like traders are wising up to the tactic and prices seem to be bouncing back up again.
maybe that's true, I also think so that there will indeed be a dump before the approval of this ETF and indeed some media or analysis company speculation is one of the reasons why people panic, and short-term investors sell to make a profit, and indeed Jim Cramer is also a indicators that cannot be digested logically, after conveying their speculation, the market always responds to the opposite of what they convey on their social media accounts. But I also have quite a question because the price fell to the $40k level, which is basically when bitcoin was starting to rise to $46k, but failed in a matter of hours and returned to its previous level.
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Marvelman
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January 04, 2024, 06:39:33 PM |
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The way I see it, the latest drop in price had a lot to do with some doubtful rumors being spread around by one of those analysis company. It's possible they were even trying to move the market for their own gain. Fortunately it looks like traders are wising up to the tactic and prices seem to be bouncing back up again.
maybe that's true, I also think so that there will indeed be a dump before the approval of this ETF and indeed some media or analysis company speculation is one of the reasons why people panic, and short-term investors sell to make a profit, and indeed Jim Cramer is also a indicators that cannot be digested logically, after conveying their speculation, the market always responds to the opposite of what they convey on their social media accounts. But I also have quite a question because the price fell to the $40k level, which is basically when bitcoin was starting to rise to $46k, but failed in a matter of hours and returned to its previous level. Yeah, you're right. It's possible that the price dropped to $42k because some whales were selling, and the buy walls were thin, which triggered a further drop. The good thing, though, is that we're back to 44k right now, and I expect we'll see 45k again soon.
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dezoel
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January 05, 2024, 08:49:06 AM |
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What I believe is happening is that the price went up to $45k from $27k after the rumours about the Bitcoin spot ETFs getting approved, when people heard about that rumour and thought that it was true, they started buying expecting a big pump in the prices, ironically, that buying pressure did make the market go high. And now, when there are rumours again about the Bitcoin sport ETFs getting rejected or about to get rejected, retail investors are selling off in the fear of losing money or losing their profits.
The market probably wouldn't go much low because of this and it will also start recovering slowly after the rumours settle down, however, nothing can be done for the short-term dumps or corrections when there is good or bad news circulating in the market which is what's happening right now.
For those willing to buy, I don't think this is the correct time for that, maybe one can do DCA, but it probably isn't the best price as there can be a healthier correction than this before the halving.
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justdimin
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January 05, 2024, 10:49:22 AM |
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Jim Cramer remains undefeated. It’s beyond comical at this point how he can move markets just by giving his opinion. Granted he moves them the wrong way, but I’m not familiar with any analyst who has ever been so routinely incorrect that people are making a living just doing the opposite of what he says.
I trust you more than most people when it comes to bitcoin world, you have bene here more than most people have been even aware of bitcoin, so when you say something I do think that you have a point. But billions have shifted and you believe that Jim Cramer had something to do with this? I really do not think so, I think it went up waiting for ETF, it didn't happen, so people got out that's as simple as that. Jim wasn't the main driver of this movement, ETF was, and I think that's normal, it has happened before as well. That doesn't mean to say that without ETF we can't go up, we have been through so much and without ETF we have managed to overcome most of it, so I do not think that there is a problem, it's all fine right now.
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CageMabok
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January 05, 2024, 03:52:51 PM |
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Yeah, you're right. It's possible that the price dropped to $42k because some whales were selling, and the buy walls were thin, which triggered a further drop. The good thing, though, is that we're back to 44k right now, and I expect we'll see 45k again soon.
Right now some people are waiting for the return of the $45K price in Bitcoin because in the past two days everyone who frequently monitors the market has probably seen the price of $42K and also the price of $44K again with market conditions still quite volatile in terms of volatility. I am also still quite sure that this month everyone will probably see Bitcoin above $45K again with a slow increase as has happened in the last few days for Bitcoin.
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Fakhrulenclix
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January 05, 2024, 04:44:25 PM |
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Yeah, you're right. It's possible that the price dropped to $42k because some whales were selling, and the buy walls were thin, which triggered a further drop. The good thing, though, is that we're back to 44k right now, and I expect we'll see 45k again soon.
Right now some people are waiting for the return of the $45K price in Bitcoin because in the past two days everyone who frequently monitors the market has probably seen the price of $42K and also the price of $44K again with market conditions still quite volatile in terms of volatility. I am also still quite sure that this month everyone will probably see Bitcoin above $45K again with a slow increase as has happened in the last few days for Bitcoin. It is very possible that we see a price of $45K this month, it is very close to the current price and the positive trend in recent months allows it to continue. Actually, I was a little surprised by what happened to the price of Bitcoin in recent times, I didn't expect this positive trend to continue for a long period of time without any deep correction, but I welcome this with great pleasure.
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criptoevangelista
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January 06, 2024, 06:00:48 PM |
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There will always be manipulations in the short term, mainly by brokers to capture money from people who operate under leverage.
This is truly a money-making machine for those who have a lot of money, as is the case with cryptocurrency brokers.
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kentrolla
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January 06, 2024, 06:12:45 PM |
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There will always be manipulations in the short term, mainly by brokers to capture money from people who operate under leverage.
This is truly a money-making machine for those who have a lot of money, as is the case with cryptocurrency brokers.
Yes unfortunately that's how the market operates, manipulations has been there and will always be there and it's upto us to decide whether we want to hodl on or reach and panic sell during the fluctuations and this varies from a person to person based on their requirement because a trader will follow the market trend and react quickly to stay on top of the profits while long term investors will not be bothered to make any move and short term investors might react but the ones leveraging will end up losing it all.
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█████████████████████████ ████████▀▀████▀▀█▀▀██████ █████▀████▄▄▄▄██████▀████ ███▀███▄████████▄████▀███ ██▀███████████████████▀██ █████████████████████████ █████████████████████████ █████████████████████████ ██▄███████████████▀▀▄▄███ ███▄███▀████████▀███▄████ █████▄████▀▀▀▀████▄██████ ████████▄▄████▄▄█████████ █████████████████████████ | BitList | | █▀▀▀▀ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █▄▄▄▄ | ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ . REAL-TIME DATA TRACKING CURATED BY THE COMMUNITY . ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ | ▀▀▀▀█ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ ▄▄▄▄█ | | List #kycfree Websites |
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gunhell16
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 06, 2024, 06:58:10 PM |
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What is happening now in the market is clear: we are in a bullish trend right now, which normally happens when the price value of Bitcoin rises. The top altcoins also fall in the market. But that won't continue; that's normal.
In these situations, here is what we have learned in crypto trading that we have studied: if you know how to keep up with when you need to buy and sell, you will definitely be able to make a big profit in these scenarios in reality.
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bluebit25
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 07, 2024, 08:15:53 AM |
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What is happening now in the market is clear: we are in a bullish trend right now, which normally happens when the price value of Bitcoin rises. The top altcoins also fall in the market. But that won't continue; that's normal.
In these situations, here is what we have learned in crypto trading that we have studied: if you know how to keep up with when you need to buy and sell, you will definitely be able to make a big profit in these scenarios in reality.
Regarding research, I'm still happy if bitcoin is in a better phase, but I'm still not sure about the "bull market" cycle because there are still doubts about it. The volatility in this market is like its seasoning. The influence from very funny news only shows that its scale is still very small. Before the news of ETF being approved, excitement/suspicion was compensated, and now it cannot be denied that it is the main reason for us to confirm the short-term bitcoin trend. All our speculations will soon have answers, each person will have their own choice. I feel like it's almost time for bitcoin to enter a major bull cycle in 2024. Even though the fluctuations that may occur make it difficult for people to predict, this is an opportunity for us to take advantage of effectively results in investment plans.
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█▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ████████▄▄████▄▄░▄ █████▄████▀▀▀▀█░███▄ ███▄███▀████████▀████▄ █░▄███████████████████▄ █░█████████████████████ █░█████████████████████ █░█████████████████████ █░▀███████████████▄▄▀▀ ███▀███▄████████▄███▀ █████▀████▄▄▄▄████▀ ████████▀▀████▀▀ █▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ | ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀BitList▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ | ▀▀▀▀█ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ ▄▄▄▄█ | | █▀▀▀▀ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █▄▄▄▄ | ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ . REAL-TIME DATA TRACKING CURATED BY THE COMMUNITY . ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ | ▀▀▀▀█ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ ▄▄▄▄█ | | █▀▀▀▀ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █▄▄▄▄ | ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀List #kycfree Websites▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ | ▀▀▀▀█ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ ▄▄▄▄█ |
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stomachgrowls
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 11, 2024, 12:45:06 PM |
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What is happening now in the market is clear: we are in a bullish trend right now, which normally happens when the price value of Bitcoin rises. The top altcoins also fall in the market. But that won't continue; that's normal.
In these situations, here is what we have learned in crypto trading that we have studied: if you know how to keep up with when you need to buy and sell, you will definitely be able to make a big profit in these scenarios in reality.
Regarding research, I'm still happy if bitcoin is in a better phase, but I'm still not sure about the "bull market" cycle because there are still doubts about it. The volatility in this market is like its seasoning. The influence from very funny news only shows that its scale is still very small. Before the news of ETF being approved, excitement/suspicion was compensated, and now it cannot be denied that it is the main reason for us to confirm the short-term bitcoin trend. All our speculations will soon have answers, each person will have their own choice. I feel like it's almost time for bitcoin to enter a major bull cycle in 2024. Even though the fluctuations that may occur make it difficult for people to predict, this is an opportunity for us to take advantage of effectively results in investment plans. I have read up about on having that possible two bull runs for this cycle on which there would really be some price bull run on this year and into the next. Dont know if its real but rumors would be rumors on which possibilities could really be that real or could happen. Now that we are nearing on Bitcoin halving season then bull run is really that near. First step that we are seeing now about on the current situation which Bitcoin ETF had been approved already. We dont know if the price would really be shooting up even more or not, basing up on the current condition then we might be seeing that sudden surge or inflow of funds. Now that the market does have tons of fundamentals that do really have circling around on which price movements or simply the volatility would really be that extreme. Whats going on? This is really that a normal movement that we could have on this market.This is why it would really be that best that you should really know on how to make yourself that versatile or really do able to make yourself that able to adjust on the time you would really be able to encounter it. Dealing up with this market is never been that easy and if you would really be that be impulsive then it would really be ending up on having that potential problem that it could give.
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bettercrypto
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 11, 2024, 05:32:39 PM |
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What is happening now in the market is clear: we are in a bullish trend right now, which normally happens when the price value of Bitcoin rises. The top altcoins also fall in the market. But that won't continue; that's normal.
In these situations, here is what we have learned in crypto trading that we have studied: if you know how to keep up with when you need to buy and sell, you will definitely be able to make a big profit in these scenarios in reality.
Regarding research, I'm still happy if bitcoin is in a better phase, but I'm still not sure about the "bull market" cycle because there are still doubts about it. The volatility in this market is like its seasoning. The influence from very funny news only shows that its scale is still very small. Before the news of ETF being approved, excitement/suspicion was compensated, and now it cannot be denied that it is the main reason for us to confirm the short-term bitcoin trend. All our speculations will soon have answers, each person will have their own choice. I feel like it's almost time for bitcoin to enter a major bull cycle in 2024. Even though the fluctuations that may occur make it difficult for people to predict, this is an opportunity for us to take advantage of effectively results in investment plans. I have read up about on having that possible two bull runs for this cycle on which there would really be some price bull run on this year and into the next. Dont know if its real but rumors would be rumors on which possibilities could really be that real or could happen. Now that we are nearing on Bitcoin halving season then bull run is really that near. First step that we are seeing now about on the current situation which Bitcoin ETF had been approved already. We dont know if the price would really be shooting up even more or not, basing up on the current condition then we might be seeing that sudden surge or inflow of funds. Now that the market does have tons of fundamentals that do really have circling around on which price movements or simply the volatility would really be that extreme. Whats going on? This is really that a normal movement that we could have on this market.This is why it would really be that best that you should really know on how to make yourself that versatile or really do able to make yourself that able to adjust on the time you would really be able to encounter it. Dealing up with this market is never been that easy and if you would really be that be impulsive then it would really be ending up on having that potential problem that it could give. In fact, if the SEC approves the Bitcoin spot, it is a sign that we may be in a minor bull run; just be careful of others who might get FOMO in the end. This is not the time to be short-term, except for scalpers who are well versed in these market scenes. And in my opinion, we will have to wait a few more months, maybe for the result or because of the approval that happened yesterday on the applications that passed the SEC approval. I just hope that the allocations that will be allocated by each company that is approved will be large.
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tygeade
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2226
Merit: 1059
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 14, 2024, 06:51:51 PM |
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I have read up about on having that possible two bull runs for this cycle on which there would really be some price bull run on this year and into the next. Dont know if its real but rumors would be rumors on which possibilities could really be that real or could happen. Now that we are nearing on Bitcoin halving season then bull run is really that near. First step that we are seeing now about on the current situation which Bitcoin ETF had been approved already. We dont know if the price would really be shooting up even more or not, basing up on the current condition then we might be seeing that sudden surge or inflow of funds. Now that the market does have tons of fundamentals that do really have circling around on which price movements or simply the volatility would really be that extreme.
I would guess that it would make the second one very very tough, but not impossible. For those who may not remember, in 2021 we technically had two bull runs, in 2021 of April or may, we peaked the price at actually 64 thousand dollars, that wasn't the all time high, that came in a few months later, at 68 thousand dollars somewhere around October if I am not wrong, but between those two, the price hit below 30 thousand dollars. As you can see, it got from under 30 thousand, to 64 thousand, to under 30 thousand and to 68 thousand all within a year. I am not saying that will happen again, we do not know if that will happen again or not, we actually have no idea at all, but we do know that it's at least a possibility.
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alankasman
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 14, 2024, 08:59:27 PM Merited by bestcoins1 (1) |
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Is there someone who can explain this so that what is happening can enter my logic and not believe in things that do not make sense? There is also a lot of speculation that this is confirmation that bitcoin ETF applications will be rejected again? But isn't it time to add more Bitcoin, as the price is at a considerable discount tonight? ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif) 10 days from January 3 before the ETF was approved and after the ETF was approved, Bitcoin price returned to $42K after rising high over the past few days. A sign that there is still an opportunity to add as much Bitcoin as possible before the price rises high and reaches a new ATH. The market is still sending signals to investors to make them continue to make every effort to increase the amount of Bitcoin in the portfolio. Bitcoin price January 03 42,494.91 USDT. As of January 14 the price of Bitcoin was 42,581.80. This is what I mean by opportunity before $70K
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Wiwo
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 14, 2024, 09:30:29 PM |
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Is there someone who can explain this so that what is happening can enter my logic and not believe in things that do not make sense? There is also a lot of speculation that this is cothat bitcoin ETF applications will be rejected again? But isn't it time to add more Bitcoin, as the price is at a considerable discount tonight? ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif) 10 days from January 3 before the ETF was approved and after the ETF was approved, Bitcoin price returned to $42K after rising high over the past few days. A sign that there is still an opportunity to add as much Bitcoin as possible before the price rises high and reaches a new ATH. The market is still sending signals to investors to make them continue to make every effort to increase the amount of Bitcoin in the portfolio. Bitcoin price January 03 42,494.91 USDT. As of January 14 the price of Bitcoin was 42,581.80. This is what I mean by opportunity before $70K At the moment, is best to buy more bitcoin at all time and also being able to continue with the accumulation at whatever interval possible, majority of the time, we have to take note of some important aspects that contribute to all of this expectations as regards to bitcoin ETF or bitcoin halven which is expected somewhere around march and April, all this could have both way impact onnrhe price of bitcoin and for that we have toake up our mind to always act along at an advanteguis mannar and at all time. Most of those that thought that 45k was already an high price, now have the chance to buy bitcoin at the present 42k price which is significantly good enough if compared to the anticipated all time high price.
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STT
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 4032
Merit: 1438
Exchange 250+ Coins With 0% Fees
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
January 14, 2024, 09:42:46 PM |
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Jim Cramer is just one noisy guy wavering his hands about alot and saying exciting things for his TV audience. He is useful in reflecting the general public in some way, I dont think its directly inverse. If you literally could do the opposite of what anyone was saying that'd be so useful but sadly not. I think Cramer or anyone can be useful for telling you when popular opinion and the crowd is in the price hence we may be 'full' at that point. If no further easy buyers are left to enter the price it might be the power swings back to the sellers, its a balancing scales no manipulation imo.
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