BETCOIN.AG are absolute scammers!

[a49061853]

OK, so the thing is I forgot the password and the access to my email then I created a new account,
won a bet, requested a withdrawal then all of a sudden I couldn't login, I knew something has gone wrong.

Then they told me thru email that the site doesn't allow duplicate accounting, so they closed my account.
Okay. nothing about the prohibition of duplicate account was mentioned during the registration of account.
Okay, then if you don't honor my winning of bet, then at least return my original deposit.
Then something absolutely ridiculous followed:

----------------------------------
As stated, the deposit will not be returned, as the previous account
received more in withdrawals than the deposit on this account. As the
previous account received a NET profit of 1.05 LTC and the new account
deposited .78 LTC,  you are in debt to us 0.27 LTC. Please send this to
your deposit address as soon as possible.

----------------------------------
Okay, well, BEWARE PLAYERS, if you have ever won any money from this site, you're in debt to them.
You'll eventually need to pay back anything you've ever won from them.
Can't believe there's a casino runs its business like this in 21th century. Bummer.

[acroman08]

I am not siding with betcoin.ag or anything but you should have asked their support on what can be done about your existing account before you created a new account and gambled.

Okay. nothing about the prohibition of duplicate account was mentioned during the registration of account.

this is why it is important to read the casino's terms and conditions when you are going to use their platform. it was clearly stated in their terms and conditions that only one account per player(check the quoted ToS rule below from betcoin.ag).

7. PLAYER ACCOUNT
7.1 Each player can create only one personal user account. There can be no more than 1 account created per household, IP and device. Creating multiple user accounts will lead to termination of the accounts. All betting accounts you try to open may be blocked or closed and any bets may be voided. Depending on the severity of the case Betcoin.ag holds the right to withhold or take any funds deposited to pay for damages and/or the prevention of future misconduct.

[Betcoin.AG]

This player has admitted to having multiple accounts, which is a violation of the terms of service he agreed to when he signed up. The previous account received withdrawals of profit, which was greater than the deposit made on the second account. This is what put him in "debt" to us. We put debt in quotes, because obviously he will never pay us what he owes. It is absurd to think that he can keep creating accounts and when he doesn't get caught nothing happens, but when we do catch him, he gets his deposit back.

This player is clearly not new at this, as the account had only been closed for about 30 minutes, when he came to BitcoinTalk and sent us a message. It is highly likely this is not his first BitcoinTalk account to cheat and then attempt and extort a gambling site.

Had we not caught him breaking the rules, this would not even be an issue, as he had already sent 9 withdrawals on the previous account, within minutes of his request. A scammer, by definition, is someone that makes money by tricking people. We did not make money and we did not trick anyone. The only scammer here is the OP.

Edit: The player is lying about having lost access to his old account. This isn't like the accounts were used months or even days apart. The first account was created 4 days ago and the new one was created within 7 hours of the previous one withdrawing (where he had to confirm the withdrawal by email). Also, both accounts have the same email address, just a different domain. So there is no chance he forgot his email address, as he suggests.

Edit 2: As always, we offer third party mediation to any player with a dispute.

[electronicash]

you will need proof of your accusation. screenshots, its sort of an unwritten law for accusing someone or a casino.
you can't just say this and that but then by what you said you already admitted the mistake. so that is a kind of violation. betcoin.ag would suspect how long you have been doing this?

but keep talking to them, maybe they will consider making you withdraw the deposited coins you made.  there is always that possibility.

[acroman08]

Edit: The player is lying about having lost access to his old account. This isn't like the accounts were used months or even days apart. The first account was created 4 days ago and the new one was created within 7 hours of the previous one withdrawing (where he had to confirm the withdrawal by email). Also, both accounts have the same email address, just a different domain. So there is no chance he forgot his email address, as he suggests.

if it is okay with you, would you mind sharing the evidence you gathered showing that he broke the gambling site's terms and conditions?

@OP what do you have to say about Betcoin.AG response on your scam accusation? is there any truth in what he says?

[Nwada001]

if it is okay with you, would you mind sharing the evidence you gathered showing that he broke the gambling site's terms and conditions?

@OP what do you have to say about Betcoin.AG response on your scam accusation? is there any truth in what he says?

In terms of the Betcoin.AG statement, I think everything is clear here. Every casino, if not all, has a higher percentage of platforms that are against multi-accounting, which the OP admitted to having a double account on its own, so it's enough proof to show that the OP has violated one or more rules of the casino.
 
If I'm to have an account with a casino and I happen to forget the account access, the first thing to do is for me to try and contact the casino to see if there is any means for them to recover the account for me, which is the right thing to do.
 
Another thing that I'd like to ask the casino is: for multi-accounting rules, if the person happens to violate such a law, what's the punishment? Won't the account be locked and the deposit be refunded to the person if there is no abuse of the account or if the account has violated any other rules aside from those that have been used to exploit the casino?

[a49061853]

This player has admitted to having multiple accounts, which is a violation of the terms of service he agreed to when he signed up. The previous account received withdrawals of profit, which was greater than the deposit made on the second account. This is what put him in "debt" to us. We put debt in quotes, because obviously he will never pay us what he owes. It is absurd to think that he can keep creating accounts and when he doesn't get caught nothing happens, but when we do catch him, he gets his deposit back.

This player is clearly not new at this, as the account had only been closed for about 30 minutes, when he came to BitcoinTalk and sent us a message. It is highly likely this is not his first BitcoinTalk account to cheat and then attempt and extort a gambling site.

Had we not caught him breaking the rules, this would not even be an issue, as he had already sent 9 withdrawals on the previous account, within minutes of his request. A scammer, by definition, is someone that makes money by tricking people. We did not make money and we did not trick anyone. The only scammer here is the OP.

Edit: The player is lying about having lost access to his old account. This isn't like the accounts were used months or even days apart. The first account was created 4 days ago and the new one was created within 7 hours of the previous one withdrawing (where he had to confirm the withdrawal by email). Also, both accounts have the same email address, just a different domain. So there is no chance he forgot his email address, as he suggests.

It's absolutely ridiculous to say I'm extorting the site. For the amount I won in the previous account, as every other player does, I placed fair bets and beared the chance of losing, I won those bets out of my own luck, it's wasn't 100% winning percentage. I believe he has the record of my betting which shows I didn't win every game, even lost most. And I NEVER placed any bet on the same game using different accounts. Nor does he has evidence.

Also, using my deposit I won about 40 dollars in grand total placing bets on maybe 3 different basketball markets, all fair and square, the site is trying to confiscate that too.

This is what put him in "debt" to us. We put debt in quotes, because obviously he will never pay us what he owes.

↑Again, why do I ever owe you any money at all? Any legal grounds behind your rationale? From the screenshot I attached you can see there's no quote on the word "debt" in the email I received.

If there's absolutely no shape or form which you can prove the money I won was either thru scamming or extorting the site, it's not fair to say I'm making money by tricking you guys. Therefore, a refund of my deposit should me made under any circumstances. And I haven't got my deposit back when my account was closed.

For the reason I messaged you in 30 minutes after the closure of my account, is because I found your site support staff doesn't make proper response and I googled then found you make faster response than those people, that's why I message here. That's the only reason. This is my only BitcoinTalk account and, how would I be able to extort a gambling site by just sending DM?

I made 9 withdrawals on the previous accounts, then? What does it have to do with the scamming? The more withdrawals people make, the more scamming someone does? That's what you're talking about?

Edit: No, the old one I lost access so I switched to a Google account. the domain is a totally different system which doesn't share the same login credentials.

https://i.ibb.co/7tPVqPJ/999999.jpg

[AHOYBRAUSE]

This player has admitted to having multiple accounts, which is a violation of the terms of service he agreed to when he signed up. The previous account received withdrawals of profit, which was greater than the deposit made on the second account. This is what put him in "debt" to us. We put debt in quotes, because obviously he will never pay us what he owes. It is absurd to think that he can keep creating accounts and when he doesn't get caught nothing happens, but when we do catch him, he gets his deposit back.

This player is clearly not new at this, as the account had only been closed for about 30 minutes, when he came to BitcoinTalk and sent us a message. It is highly likely this is not his first BitcoinTalk account to cheat and then attempt and extort a gambling site.

Had we not caught him breaking the rules, this would not even be an issue, as he had already sent 9 withdrawals on the previous account, within minutes of his request. A scammer, by definition, is someone that makes money by tricking people. We did not make money and we did not trick anyone. The only scammer here is the OP.

Edit: The player is lying about having lost access to his old account. This isn't like the accounts were used months or even days apart. The first account was created 4 days ago and the new one was created within 7 hours of the previous one withdrawing (where he had to confirm the withdrawal by email). Also, both accounts have the same email address, just a different domain. So there is no chance he forgot his email address, as he suggests.

Extorsion? Debt? Kind of a funny explanation.
Sure he violated your terms, there is nothing to say about that and you are right to suspend his account.

But no player has "debt" to a site, also we are talking about a tiny amount like 1 ltc , which is not even 70$. 
If he won fair and square using the word debt really is the wrong wording.

Did the player have any benefit from make a new account? Something like a deposit bonus or anything? If that was the case and he had an advantage of making a new account, keeping the initial new deposit would be an ok move. On other sites if a player is found out to have multiple accounts without any advantage of doing so the deposit gets refunded. I have never heard of a site using the word debt unless there was some cheating involved.

If you talk about debt then this can also be reversed. Any site I ever lost at ows a debt to me now I suppose.

[sujonali1819]

I made 9 withdrawals on the previous accounts, then? What does it have to do with the scamming? The more withdrawals people make, the more scamming someone does? That's what you're talking about?

Edit: No, the old one I lost access so I switched to a Google account. the domain is a totally different system which doesn't share the same login credentials.

So you are admitting you have multiple accounts there? if so and if the site does not allow multiple accounts that means you violated the terms of service. And they can take action based on the Terms.

Note: If you are a regular gambler be careful about creating multiple accounts in any situation. It's better to talk with the support and fix the issue if you have one instead of creating multiple accounts. Because at some point platform accuses you that you are using multiple accounts.

[a49061853]

I made 9 withdrawals on the previous accounts, then? What does it have to do with the scamming? The more withdrawals people make, the more scamming someone does? That's what you're talking about?

Edit: No, the old one I lost access so I switched to a Google account. the domain is a totally different system which doesn't share the same login credentials.

So you are admitting you have multiple accounts there? if so and if the site does not allow multiple accounts that means you violated the terms of service. And they can take action based on the Terms.

Note: If you are a regular gambler be careful about creating multiple accounts in any situation. It's better to talk with the support and fix the issue if you have one instead of creating multiple accounts. Because at some point platform accuses you that you are using multiple accounts.

Whatever the case is, there's no term on the website which says they can put me in debt for the money thru fair betting I won at will.

[decodx]

It's absolutely ridiculous to say I'm extorting the site.

Your accusations of scam are unfounded and malicious. You are the one who has acted inappropriately, and now you are trying to deflect blame.

↑Again, why do I ever owe you any money at all? Any legal grounds behind your rationale? From the screenshot I attached you can see there's no quote on the word "debt" in the email I received.

Look, I get why you're frustrated, but the betting site isn't really in the wrong here.  You didn't follow their terms when placing those bets, even if you didnt mean to and  so they can't just pay out when their rules were broken.  When you access the platform and accept their terms of use, it is a contractual obligation for both parties.  They have legal grounds in this case.  Maybe you just gotta be more careful with reading the fine print next time.  I know that sucks to hear, but you did make this hard on yourself, whether it was an accident or not.

[robelneo]

I made 9 withdrawals on the previous accounts, then? What does it have to do with the scamming? The more withdrawals people make, the more scamming someone does? That's what you're talking about?

Edit: No, the old one I lost access so I switched to a Google account. the domain is a totally different system which doesn't share the same login credentials.

So you are admitting you have multiple accounts there? if so and if the site does not allow multiple accounts that means you violated the terms of service. And they can take action based on the Terms.

Note: If you are a regular gambler be careful about creating multiple accounts in any situation. It's better to talk with the support and fix the issue if you have one instead of creating multiple accounts. Because at some point platform accuses you that you are using multiple accounts.

Whatever the case is, there's no term on the website which says they can put me in debt for the money thru fair betting I won at will.

You cannot force a site that pays you for violating their terms, why can't you see that the majority of us here cannot support your case if your case is all about violating their terms of creating multiple accounts when you create a second account you already a risk of getting flag but you continue and won, I always advise gamblers to keep your account clean for any violation so in case you win a huge amount there will be no issue when you cash out.
You have zero chance in this case, this is a lesson to every player to always be aware of the terms and see to it that you have followed them to the letter

[CypherMonk]

OK, so the thing is I forgot the password and the access to my email then I created a new account,
won a bet, requested a withdrawal then all of a sudden I couldn't login, I knew something has gone wrong.

Edit: The player is lying about having lost access to his old account. This isn't like the accounts were used months or even days apart. The first account was created 4 days ago and the new one was created within 7 hours of the previous one withdrawing (where he had to confirm the withdrawal by email). Also, both accounts have the same email address, just a different domain. So there is no chance he forgot his email address, as he suggests.

Let me start by saying that it's true that the OP broke the terms and conditions of the casino by having a duplicate account. He could have even contacted the casino to reset the password of the old account but did not. But let me make one thing clear in this, anyone can make the same mistake, sometimes I even use google to generate password which I sometimes forget. So, that's not understandable.

Also, the casino's claimed that the player is lying about losing access to its account is not believable because there's no proof from the casino that shows the player accessing the old account after creating the new account. Moreover, there's no claim that the player is utilising stuffs like the site welcome bonus or promotion of any sort.

So, why can't the casino ask the player to terminate one account and continue using the other one. This issue could have been easily resolve instead of the casino trying to forfeit the fund of the player because of a mistake.

For instance, we've also seen cases where casinos make a mistake on odds of a certain events but later retifies it and claim the overpayment from players' balance. So, why is Betcoin.AG trying to forfeit a players' fund because of a silly mistake.

[Betcoin.AG]

why is Betcoin.AG trying to forfeit a players' fund because of a silly mistake.

It wasn't a silly mistake. The email address the player claims to have forgotten has been in use by him for over 2.5 years on internet sites and forums. We do (of course) have proof of this. If the player shares the email address, anyone else could google the address and see proof, as well.

The fact that immediately came and lied about this here should clearly show that he has negative intent. This is the abuse. Players ditch their winning accounts and create new ones to stay under the radar. We have no further comment on this matter. He broke the rules and lied about it. By definition, he is the scammer.

[decodx]

Let me start by saying that it's true that the OP broke the terms and conditions of the casino by having a duplicate account. He could have even contacted the casino to reset the password of the old account but did not. But let me make one thing clear in this, anyone can make the same mistake, sometimes I even use google to generate password which I sometimes forget. So, that's not understandable.

Also, the casino's claimed that the player is lying about losing access to its account is not believable because there's no proof from the casino that shows the player accessing the old account after creating the new account. Moreover, there's no claim that the player is utilising stuffs like the site welcome bonus or promotion of any sort.

The casino's got every right to say that 'cause they can see a bunch more stuff about the player behind the scene - personal stuff folks wouldnt wanna share publicly.  For what it's worth, I don't believe the player has really lost access to his email account neither and  seems to me if he couldn't log in no more, he'd be asking the email provider for help instead of making another account with the gambling site. Besides, the OP admitted that he created multiple accounts on the platform, and that should be enough.

Welcome bonuses are not the only way players can abuse the gambling platform by using multiple accounts. If you read their terms of use in detail, you would know that there are certain specifics that can be abused, which the casino is very well aware of, so they have the right to protect their business from such abuse.

So, why can't the casino ask the player to terminate one account and continue using the other one. This issue could have been easily resolve instead of the casino trying to forfeit the fund of the player because of a mistake.

That is something a player should ask the casino before creating a new account, not the other way around. Personal accountability should not be ignored.

[coin-investor]

Whatever the case is, there's no term on the website which says they can put me in debt for the money thru fair betting I won at will.

What are we discussing here what's not on their terms or your violation on what's on their terms, the casinos have the right forfeit your earnings because of the violation, if you've been playing on online casinos for several months you know how important the terms are, the community has been advising gamblers especially newbies to read the terms however long or boring it may look.

Your account status and cash out depends on these terms, for all you know you've been playing for a long time violating one of the terms and you are made aware of this violation after you request a cash out, now you will have to prepare for good reason or alibi on your violation and you will end op opening a scam accusation here that will be a waste of time because its futile, so my advice to you is to just move on and take this lesson to follow the casino's TOS.

[PX-Z]

This player has admitted to having multiple accounts, which is a violation of the terms of service he agreed to when he signed up. The previous account received withdrawals of profit, which was greater than the deposit made on the second account. This is what put him in "debt" to us. We put debt in quotes, because obviously he will never pay us what he owes. It is absurd to think that he can keep creating accounts and when he doesn't get caught nothing happens, but when we do catch him, he gets his deposit back.

This is not the case of OP's violating the casino's TOS because he really did. But a "debt" is really confusing term for this. Isn't this the first time Betcoin.ag user got a debt when the user got caught cheating?

If you think that the first account got a "win" with no cheating which he withdraws later on, then why he got a debt on the second account after deposit ^{(and/or after playing/winning)} when you can restrict the user to create another account with all of the duplicate account detection you are depending. To think about it that you let him to deposit first and confiscate the balance you were no different from the word "cheating" even though it's your way for "payback".

[Beparanf]

It wasn't a silly mistake. The email address the player claims to have forgotten has been in use by him for over 2.5 years on internet sites and forums. We do (of course) have proof of this. If the player shares the email address, anyone else could google the address and see proof, as well.

The fact that immediately came and lied about this here should clearly show that he has negative intent. This is the abuse. Players ditch their winning accounts and create new ones to stay under the radar. We have no further comment on this matter. He broke the rules and lied about it. By definition, he is the scammer.

Please clarify if he abused one of your bonuses or do some malicious bets for you to seize his deposit. Even if he committed multiple account while he just playing fair bet then I don’t see the point of putting his balance on debt just because he won using a fair bet. Creating new account doesn’t increase your winning probability assuming that he is not abusing any bonus on your casino.

You should clarify your previous statement because it just show that you confiscated the account balance just because of multiple account without any kind of cheating involved. I will understand this decision if he is abusing bonuses to win but not when the account only violation is just a multiple account.

[decodx]

Please clarify if he abused one of your bonuses or do some malicious bets for you to seize his deposit. Even if he committed multiple account while he just playing fair bet then I don’t see the point of putting his balance on debt just because he won using a fair bet. Creating new account doesn’t increase your winning probability assuming that he is not abusing any bonus on your casino.

You should clarify your previous statement because it just show that you confiscated the account balance just because of multiple account without any kind of cheating involved. I will understand this decision if he is abusing bonuses to win but not when the account only violation is just a multiple account.

They don't have to explain anything.  This is still a serious offense, and the casino is within their rights to take action and ban the player.  Creating multi accounts is a clear violation of the terms of use of the platform and breach of contract. Each player is obliged to familiarize himself/herself with the terms of use and to comply with them.

The player can appeal the decision to the casino's customer support. However, he has no right to publicly defame the casino and accuse it of scam, because that simply isn't the case.

[AHOYBRAUSE]

Please clarify if he abused one of your bonuses or do some malicious bets for you to seize his deposit. Even if he committed multiple account while he just playing fair bet then I don’t see the point of putting his balance on debt just because he won using a fair bet. Creating new account doesn’t increase your winning probability assuming that he is not abusing any bonus on your casino.

You should clarify your previous statement because it just show that you confiscated the account balance just because of multiple account without any kind of cheating involved. I will understand this decision if he is abusing bonuses to win but not when the account only violation is just a multiple account.

They don't have to explain anything.  This is still a serious offense, and the casino is within their rights to take action and ban the player.  Creating multi accounts is a clear violation of the terms of use of the platform and breach of contract. Each player is obliged to familiarize himself/herself with the terms of use and to comply with them.

The player can appeal the decision to the casino's customer support. However, he has no right to publicly defame the casino and accuse it of scam, because that simply isn't the case.

Of course they don't have to, but maybe they should, otherwise it really looks a little strange.

I just looked over their TOS and it states:

7. PLAYER ACCOUNT
7.1 Each player can create only one personal user account. There can be no more than 1 account created per household, IP and device. Creating multiple user accounts will lead to termination of the accounts. All betting accounts you try to open may be blocked or closed and any bets may be voided. Depending on the severity of the case Betcoin.ag holds the right to withhold or take any funds deposited to pay for damages and/or the prevention of future misconduct.

We are talking about 1 LTC, 70$. I don't see any severity in this case. Also they didn't state if he abused any promotions or any other new player offer which would have given him an advantage. That is actually the most important question n this case.